February 12Th Community Hot Topics!

[45neo]

my bigger issue with draco is that there isn't enough missions that give decent affinity. So basically add more dracos (different mission types would be preferred).

[InoxMaximus]

What are Warframe Mandatory MODs ? 

[shadowjeff18]

Do you think Draco is a problem and needs to be changed?

 

to be honest i dont think draco needs to change, its a good spot to get exp, BUT if you change draco so it isnt one of the best spots to gain exp, they will go look for other missions. (you might see many different missions played but within a few weeks poeple found the next "draco" spot)

 

Does it worry you that Draco is a Community Hot Topic?

 

worry not really, but the community can make from a fly an elephant. like i stated above, its a good spot and i see why poeple go there to farm exp. but if it wasnt for draco there would be another place.

Edited February 13, 2016 by shadowjeff18

[45neo]

also on the topic of mandantory mods for the warframes themselves. personally I think survivability mod wile considered that way are not always needed. mods like intesify, stretch, ect. are also used dependent on the build so I think for the most part build diversity for warframes is fine. Weapons is where build diversity needs to be looked at.

[Demoonic]

No, I don't even see why power leveling would even be a remote issue.

[(NSW)BlaineKodos]

About Crowd Control and the subject of spoiling the fun:

 

I feel it's less that CC powers spoil the fun of certain missions and more that they are required for the mission to even be approachable. High level missions (especially sorties) are such that if the crowd is not under the effects of a CC power (disarmed, confused, slowed, knocked down, suspended, asleep, blind, etc) then they just put out too much damage for most frames to even stand, let alone fight. It rolls around to our old friend scaling, and how the scaling of the game right now is such that high level enemies take too much damage to put down without stacking the deck in our favor, and putting too much out if they're not under constant wrangling. Playing with the enemy by making their lives miserable doesn't really ruin anyone's fun, it's the opposite. In average, balanced missions it's very fun to just take away from the enemy and watch them flail before we kill them. In the high level stuff though, past where the game was originally balanced, it becomes a necessity and in some cases a job. Loki stealing everyone's guns is amusing, but if it becomes such that any time the enemy has a gun someone is going to be downed then it's stopped being fun and has become work.

 

Stuff needs to change about the mandatory nature of CC but it's not CC that is to blame, it's the scaling. Damage powers just stop working after a while, and without the CC mitigation the enemy is too capable of steamrolling a full team in seconds.

[N64Gamefreak]

From what I have heard, the raids are all about spamming CC. Kill nothing. That kinda goes against what the game is about. Plus it sounds boring as fudge. Most likely has to do with enemies oneshotting Tenno at higher levels, which is even more boring than CC spam.

Jordas Verdict is definitely about killing.  And crowd control.

[AnonymousArmadillo]

Regarding draco:

I only join draco if I need to level something while having no need to actually use that said something. As much as it is convenient, I don't really like how you can level something up without actually using it. But this is not a problem with draco, this is a problem with the way affinity is shared between the team. Draco is just the more efficient way to use that right now. If draco changes, people will just flock to the next mission. In the end, nothing really changes.

 

 

Crowd control:

There is a point in the game where it becomes really boring or tedius to fight an enemy. This is because of armor scaling or because the enemies will just instakill you without you being able to do anything.

 

In high levels CC is just a way to finish the objective without having to fight because fighting them is just not worth it (IMO). Also, I believe a big reason for relying on CC is that CC is the easiest to use and it is very clear and easy to understand. 

 

 

Mandatory mods:

On weapons:

Of course: all the +damage mods are almost always mandatory, because you want to kill things in this game. On melee weapons this wasn't always the case since melee weapons had another use. Think back to coptering, not necessarily a good thing but still, it was another way to play. 

 

On warframes:

I'm pretty sure fleeting expertise is among my (and many) most used mods but I don't think there is any mod that I use on every frame/build. There's always a frame that needs no Strength, Duration or Range. Efficiency, however, is needed on almost everything. The game is pushing me more and more into using high efficiency builds. Why? Because the game is full of anti energy things that punishes me for building up my energy. Things like an energy leech, grineer doors, disruptors or even a nullfier or bullet jump into a outdated out-of bounds hitbox is enough to completely reset everything and making me waste my energy.

 

I have a Blind Rage Atlas build with 45% efficiency for super rumblers. Then I jump too high or they find a nullfier and boom, I just wasted 155 energy. There is no reward for taking such a risk. Once you mod for efficiency, all you need is 1 orb to get back if you're completely drained. Why wouldn't I do that? It might make my abilities slightly weaker but at least I can keep going.

[ohboy_]

the fact that people have to go to Draco and just mindlessly kill things to level their gun's at a descent rate is the real problem. It's not that Draco needs to be nerfed; it's that the best way to get affinity is through killing a tun of enemies. The only other option was keeping a stealth multiplier but that is a lot harder since enemies are now aware of deaths around them which makes Draco the best option. Demonstration of skill should provide more affinity gain per minute then mindless killing; this would completely remove the problem of some mission types being better for affinity than others.

[Amazerath]

Do you think Draco is a problem and needs to be changed?

 

There is a problem and this problem should be worked on. But it's not Draco.

 

The real problem is that the Forma system forces me to re-acquire thirty ranks of a weapon or warframe that I'm already entirely familiar with just so I can do something new or interesting to that piece of equipment. If my Forma is only giving me something like six bonus points to spend then why am I expected to go through the same process that gave me thirty points originally? That's not reasonable and that's certainly not fun. So the players will act accordingly.

 

If spending Forma becomes less of a chore and more of an entertaining accomplishment, then maybe Draco will stop getting as many visits. Giving some more attention to non-endless missions and their rewards would also not hurt. In short, "increase the good". Especially where the good is still not that good.

[FreshNinja007]

Draco:

Selfish arrogant jerks are upset that newer players get to progress at an equal/faster rate than they used to do back in the day (because fast-xp-gain nodes have been around since closed beta).  We aren't in the 'old days' of gaining mastery by buying and ranking up the SAME weapon (MK1-Braton) over and over and having it count for MR rank.  Vets know they used to do that stuff like everyone else, so cut the garbage about Draco.  Also exclusive event-exclusive items and mods that have never been re-released (plus that Prime frame that shall not be named).  Vets have enough and shouldn't be trying to ruin the game for newer people.

 

Other Stuff:

DE completely ignores the dozens and dozens of useful valuable feedback and well thought-out suggestions and insight into aspects of the game they may not be aware of (focus) while promoting recent threads that have stupid ideas that are poorly thought out with regards to balance (dual primaries) because reasons.  I hate things being too sad so let us just put fingers in our ears and ignore it because BE POSITIVE with a forced smile even while the world burns around you.  Ok then.

 

Priority:
Fix your performance issues introduced since hotfix 18.4.2; the hitches/freezes, the latency issues, the hardlock/freezes.  Go ask Megan and Rebecca what I mean by that as one of them had to deal with those LIVE on stream (which must've been embarassing as hell).

Edited February 13, 2016 by FreshNinja007

[(PSN)EnormeMostro]

If developers remove Draco meta, Uranus Stephano is the next place almost players will go to :D

[(PSN)vinfive]

Finally Akimbo primaries is on the discussion tables. How about AkBraton, AkLatron, AkDera, AkPanthera ???

[OniDax]

I don't care about build diversity. If you're going to get rid of mandatory mods, then work their benefits into every weapon.

[OniDax]

Oh, and the problem with Draco isn't just the way in which you level weapons, prompting power leveling. The problem is the entire mastery system that is based on weapon, frame, and companion leveling and maxing. People want to quickly max and discard any item that they don't care to use, so they look for quick, efficient ways to do that.

[Doom_Bunny]

Draco:

I think the problem with Draco stems from the affinity system. The way we gain levels isn't rewarding and can be strenuous. We get a few polarity points and that's it until certain levels. Upon upgrading you either slot in a required mod (such as health/shield/armour depending on the frame) or you place a random (still helpful) mod in until you can slot in a required mod. The fix that was suggested for this sounded great. For required mods to be removed and have the stats grow with your level, allowing for the player to see how much they grow each level.

 

One rewarding aspect that is shown is ability levels however it's levels on top of levels. When I get to level 25 a certain ability goes to level 3. Even though abilities are referred to in levels it's more like tiers. I say this because we aren't exactly leveling the abilities, they are not progressive rather they unlock once you reach a certain level. However this system doesn't show how much the abilities have changed, it doesn't tell the player how much this frame's abilities have grown.

 

During a mission the only indication that you've leveled up is the ability level icon at the top of the screen. There is nothing to say huzzah you have leveled up. Closed beta did having something like this (although a bit over the top) where there would be noise and lights when you leveled up.

 

If we where to continue to have Draco the way it is, I'd say make it harder. Make some other missions with high exp reward but make them difficult.

 

Dual primaries:

It depends on the weapon and it's stats. We probably don't want something like dual sancti tigris walking around with even more damage than the original. There has to be a balance.

 

Crowd control:

It is required in high levels and practically all excavation missions. However they do ruin low level missions when people just spam them or have an ability like wof, practically killing any fun for the other team mates. Crowd control abilities can be great fun but when most of them are just spammed it kind of kills the fun for most people. The introduction of the focus system did have me worried, putting a lense on a frame pushes people to continually use abilities (especially crowd control) otherwise they get minimal focus points.

 

Required mods:

Yes there are required mods but that doesn't mean you can't have other builds without them.

- health/shield/armour

- duration/efficiency/range/strength

- energy capacity/gain

- weapon damage

These types of mods take place above all others. A player can go without them if they are planning to use a certain tactic. However these mods are practically used in every build. You might not use all of them (they might not all fit) but most of them are used to get past every frame's shortcomings. We might as well throw every other mod out because these ones easily take priority.

 

This is why I like the idea of a weapon's/frame's stats being progressive. It means we could throw these required mods out, and players could finally start building with all the other mods.

Edited February 14, 2016 by Postal_pat

[KingTaro]

Draco and power leveling: 

 

Draco is not the problem here. Almost every other place being unrewarding exp-wise is the problem.

Spy got a nice rework. Stealth got a great exp boost. The issue with Spy is that the missions favor solo play and solo is not efficient when leveling weapons.

 

However, boosting other mission types and nodes, giving a sense of progression should fix this issue. There is always going to be that one sweet spot, but it's going to be less of an issue once it doesn't outmatches everything else by 10 to 1 exp wise.

 

 

Crowd control:

 

Never been a fan of CC playstyle, but I understand some enjoy it and prefer it as it can be more efficient.

Maybe we need more agile units with some CC-resistance (diminishing CC) and less bullet-sponges. Also mini-bosses showing up once in a while that have power resistance (again, no bullet sponges).

 

Ideally, scaling AI instead of scaling EHP would be the best approach. Then again, it's not an easy feat.

 

 

Mandatory warframe mods:

 

Warframe mods don't really have this issue, unlike the weapon mods.

 

Strength mods: not going to have those on Loki Disarm or invisibility build.

Duration mods: don't have those on Rhino Iron Skin / Stomp build.

Range mods: not on Valkyr Hysteria.

Efficiency mods: Not on Trinity.

...

 

Personally, I don't feel like there is a mod that I'd equip on every single warframe build.

Well, at least can't think of one at the moment.

 

[Hybridon]

We try to discuss topics that appeal to all platforms unanimously. Because Focus is in flux right now, it's not an appropriate topic for these threads. 

 

No offense, but the current focus system ties in directly to the many complaints about Draco.

 

Want to power level, go to Draco. Want to get syndicate rep, go to Draco. Want to have some chance at getting decent focus... surprise, go to Draco.

 

You guys changed a system that was bad, as it meant people had to hog kills, into a system that it doesnt really matter if you hog kills, the gains are so low, and solo players have been given another middle finger from DE. We keep getting pushed into palying the same exact leveles over, and over, and over, and over again because of the same game design on every single addition.

 

Currently we grind for ducats, to get primed mods, to then grind for cores. We grind Draco to quickly level and reforma weapons, while getting syndicate rep and focus, to then use these to grind for ducats to then grind for cores, and so forth.

 

You guys keep promising end game, or even a better reward system, but atm we keep getting pushed into playing the same missions over and over and over again. So sorry, focus should have been put up here in the discussions, as the changes made are going to affect consoles. So we have to wait a month until this hits consoles, for them to realize how bad it is, and then we discuss it so maybe it gets change sin like what, another 2-3 months?

[(PSN)Shatter02]

Draco isnt a problem so much as it is the lack of decent affinity hardly anywhere else and that the grind is already a pain without having to forma my weapon but because my clan and i run high level it almost feels like a requirement in order to bring that weapon into high lvl missions and we hate having the thought of having to reforma our weapons.

[ScorpDK]

Dual Primaries:

Yes, please. Most of the "brute" weaponry (which don't require precision) would probably make for great akimbo loadouts. Shotguns, certain assault rifles, flamethrower, perhaps even certain grenade launchers (kinda wish you could mod each of them separately, but that's too much, obviously)

 

CC:

Crowd Control is a very tricky thing to talk about. For one, it's the only viable option you have starting a certain enemy level, due to the way their stats keep increasing and increasing until your weapons and damage abilities basically do nothing, and the only thing you can do is use CC to stop them from one-shotting you. This is especially prevalent in solo-play, as the enemies have only one single target to focus on. I don't tend to play high-level missions (I leave at 45-60m T1/T2 Survival when my guns are just doing chip damage), so my reliance on CC is not that strong and my input may not be as valuable.

 

Mandatory WF Mods:

As some people already mentioned, some mods are pretty essential, while others are basically so niche or underpowered that they're not worth reserving a mod slot for (Elemental protection mods and the Ice Shield reduction one (which may get phased out after Sabotage 2.0?) are good examples). Health and Shield mods are generally more a aid mod than strictly needed (at low levels you can generally dodge/avoid gunfire and melee, and at higher levels even a pool of 800-1400 HP or shield will get destroyed in 1-2 hits), Armor mods are only really being used by frames with already large amounts of base armor; so in the end, most people focus on building power-based setups, with energy efficiency and capacity being generally the main priority, and varying combinations of the other power stats taking most of the remaining slots, depending on what people try to achieve. Some want shorter duration or shorter range for frames like Hydroid and Frost for more concentrated attacks.

 

I could imagine a "tuning" option on the frame to adjust power stats via a set of sliders rather than mods, each of them giving or taking points

away from the maximum, which gives people the ability to equip other mods without having to always reserve those 3-7 slots for power-based mods. Still requires formas to equip them all at high ranks, but at least there's a lot more chance to bring mobility, detection and other utility mods along.

But that's just one of many random ideas.

Edited February 13, 2016 by ScorpDK

[Giantconch]

Draco

 

In a nutshell no I dont use Draco to power-level weapons and frames, I find it better to get a feel of what I want to keep/trash levelling weapons in survivals.

 

The problem I was having was getting focus exp, and thus why I started farming Draco for affinity. Sure, I could spook a high tier endless mission like a Ceres spy or deception mission and grind out focus that way, but that always had to be done solo so I wasn't trailing behind someone else or entering a room they were grinding away in.

 

With Draco, the whole team is doing their part keeping that RJ fed with energy or buffing, and you can switch roles so that in an hour or two everyone had their daily focus cap. The recent change to focus has not helped that, and now I fully intend to spam the crap out of Draco for focus and basically never touch any other mission. Sorry, MR3 stuck on the Mars interception, but Grindframe got grindier, and you have nothing to offer that can help.

 

Nerfing Draco, changing its tileset, changing enemy levels, or just flat out removing Draco will do nothing to help the game IMO. A very smart youtube user said it very clearly a year ago, "There will always be a loot cave" Taking away Draco will just move the loot cave to another area.

 

Warframe has held my attention and kept me entertained for quite some time, the credit card bills show this quite well, however the grinding, grinding, grinding some more, has become boring to say the least. Draco offered the instant gratification that this game does not have otherwise. Please, make no changes to Draco, and tweak the Focus gain system back to its pre-1.1 numbers. People were already looking at months of focus farming to unlock and rank up a single focus tree, that has been increased now with the focus changes, and would be increased even further by removing Draco.

[trieuazn0]

Draco:

In regards to the Draco problem, i feel it is used too much as a way to Speed level pass the normal game.

as in, part of playing the game personally, was progressing though the Mastery rank system slowly, i started playing around 2013 where seeing another player that was Mr10+ was something amazing and someone you could rely on to cover you in mission.

 

now i casually see Mr17+ players who still need Taxi to Alerts located on mars or some other planet they should have unlocked Already

[LordOfScrugging]

Mandatory mods:

I think a major issue with mandatory mods, is there are mods that are frankly never going to see a place in a build. the introduction of exilus mods brought some mods that wouldn't fit in a build into the spotlight, however there are some that will still fall to mediocrity compared to say raising your max health or shields, or upping efficiency. Some mods like master thief are completely unappealing. the elemental resistances are mostly useless because we learn to just rampage through the patch of ice, or the patch of fire.

 

The thing is, changing mandatory mods is a sure fire way to mess something up. You could try passively adding vitality or redirection into the frames, but the issue that stems from that is some builds require less health or less shields. A whole revamp of the modding system would be the only way to kinda fix it. by having every stat modified post rank 30 with the base mods like continuity, stretch, etc. then introduce a new sort of corruption mod-esque system where you can install a module (not a mod card, something similar to installing a lense) that gives the player a certain number of points they can raise a stat, however they must take stats away from another to compensate. then additional mods like the elemental resistances could be modded as normal.

 

Dual primaries:

 

I think it would be cool to a point. say they add a dual version of the boltor, for example, it would most likely out damage the regular counterpart. it would also be much easier to use than the bolto due to it being automatic.

 

Then lets go a different route. lets say that there can't be a dual version of an existing weapon. so the dual primary would be an entirely new weapon. this would be nice since there isn't really anything to compare it to. but then the line can be blurred between primary and secondary dual weapons. (plus it would start looking ridiculous if you have a dual primary equipped coupled with a dual secondary and topped off with a dual melee. ridiculous walking armory now)

[(PSN)L-B-H-100]

DE should probably consider the amount of new players on the forums.

 

most of the votes are lies.

[Syllabea]

I think that the problem with Draco is that levelling weapons and frames seems very slow for veteran players. We found the most efficient way to do so with Draco, so we do it whenever we have something to rank. I think a solution would be an Affinity multiplier based on Mastery Rank, and perhaps a multiplier on top of that for how many Forma on said weapon/frame.