How Is Exalted Blade Different From A Gun?

[Pro3Display]

excalibur is just going to get gunned down before he gets close. 

thats why he has radial blind

 

if excalibur became faster and lunged forward whenever he meleed

he is fast enough, you just have to, um... press forward button?

iirc lunging forward on melee attacks was discussed when stances were introduced and animation locking with such moves occurred and people didn't like it.

also slash dash is your lunge forward... or slide attack. it has radial blind in it btw

 

 

you are mistaking butter knife that exist solely to cut butter with a butter knife that turns everything it cuts into butter.

ofc people like it, it's easy mode - as an example post from above:

No waves = death by limbo acolyte huehuehue

the guy don't even know that this acolyte can be melee'd with any decent melee weapon, or just shot with a good gun without any problem.

because *whoosh* *whoosh* is safest thing ever.

[AKKILLA]

Considering most people loved exalted blade... No its not the worst they could come up with.

 

The only way i would accept getting rid of exalted blade's waves is if excalibur became faster and lunged forward whenever he meleed with a decent amount of range. Otherwise excalibur is just going to get gunned down before he gets close. 

 

Exactly He gets it ^^^

 

No way in Hell if they Nerf the waves that EB will be viable, they will need to completely rework all the combos and attacks to be basically Slash Dash oriented attacks to get in close and fast. Some people here think we just wanna keep the waves just cuz. 

 

Dont be ignant, Excalibur even in EB can still drop like a Fly, its happend to Me aswell as others

 

 

This guy died and his build is pretty strength oriented. Just cuz Exalted Blades waves are moderately OP doesnt mean he can Ruin Your game nor is he a GOD. Lets be Logical here all I hear is complaints instead of good feed back on how to keep it viable except for what Homie suggested here

 

Lets Make Exalted Blade Hysteria and lets Destroy Hysteria and lets Nerf Bladestorm and everything just Nerf it down the Toilet why dont we?

 

Anything OP needs to be NERFED is what I see all over these forums. Kinda discouraging to even read threads anymore, I have faith in a slight few members tho.

[ShortCat]

Some suggestions from my side:

 

- Waves do only 1/3 of total damage, real melee attacks do full damage.

- Range on waves is reduced to XX meters and/or scales with power range.

--> No need to remove them or restrict them on certain hits.

 

People say he needs to spam EB or he will get shot, but you forget, Excalibur has autoparry (if you are not spamming E like crazy), and Radial Blind to keep his enemies in check.

Now to the "more mobility" argument. Tenno are fast on their feet already. Radial Blind will help here again, as it hinders enemies from running away. And something many people forget: his #1 - Slash Dash. It is an excellent gapcloser and a mobility tool.

Conclusion: Excalibur has enough mobility and CC to engage in melee combat.

[Autongnosis]

There is no gun that has unlimited punchthrough on 40m range and looks like a sword :P

Ther is a AW gun that shoots energy blades with near unlimited punchthrough though. So Excalibur has Exalted Fluctus basically :P

[ShortCat]

Dont be ignant, Excalibur even in EB can still drop like a Fly, its happend to Me aswell as others

 

 

This guy died and his build is pretty strength oriented. Just cuz Exalted Blades waves are moderately OP doesnt mean he can Ruin Your game nor is he a GOD.

It may be only my opninion, but this build is aweful.

He pumps everything in power strength to boost his EB damage, but didn't consider that blindet enmies will take additional damge. With occasional RB he would do as much damge as he does now, with the benefits of more protection and not a cornered build he runs in this video.

Edited February 16, 2016 by ShortCat

[Autongnosis]

The building the best series from that guy is hardly the best (or any good) to be honest. He has a really nice voice to listen to but scrap his builds, they generally have nothing going for them.

[TriggerHappyWhiteGuy]

A gun does not take energy.

[AKKILLA]

It may be only my opninion, but this build is aweful.

He pumps everything in power strength to boost his EB damage, but didn't consider that blindet enmies will take additional damge. With occasional RB he would do as much damge as he does now, with the benefits of more protection and not a cornered build he runs in this video.

 

Yeah the guys build is trash but still shows any excal can go down, I never i mean NEVER equip Blind Rage cuz i hate negative efficiency builds.

[Volinus7]

I/O mechanics

Once the lvl is high enough it is one hit KO.

Lvl is low enough you can spam any button and win.

I've killed a lvl100 sentient enemy by blind and normal melee alone I know that it takes so long that I almost fell asleep.

I'm a noob at MR21 with all weapons, frames and almost every mods of cause I dont even know what a "decent weapon" is.

Edited February 16, 2016 by Volinus7

[Xaero]

Oh yeah remove the waves so that an ULTIMATE ability becomes a mere sword with bad combos and energy drain. That would be really great. Perhaps you should at first try proposing something to compensate? I would agree with waves removal only if the entire ability is reworked to something that's worth to be called an ultimate. Fluid combos, good range, a good lock-on system, higher damage, fast dashing moves, better damage mitigation.

[(PSN)xX-GunHound-Xx]

I'm only going to post on here once, because threads like this tend to blow out of proportion. But, anywho...

 

The waves will NOT be removed. Why? Because "butthurt" won't amount to it getting taken away. Worst case scenario, the waves will be reduced in efficiency or usage.

 

And people, using Excalibur DOESN'T make you a bad melee player, it's just that people will use what ever they have in their arsenal to downplay a person's competence to fit their agenda because they don't like a certain playstyle a frame is being used as.

 

inb4 people claiming I'm defending a p4tw playstyle choice

 

In any case NO I'm not defending it, I think an ability that requires you to press 4 to clear an ENTIRE map is bad design. But the people coming on threads now claiming that Excalibur is press O to win ( not sure what the melee bindings are for pc or xbox ), are just pushing their agenda even further because they were not satisfied with the changes. Those were probably the same people who were mad to see Super Jump go when ALL FRAMES were to be getting it essentially in the first place.

 

Excalibur's ult quite literally provides you with an alternative to gunplay. With that being said, what we need to do is look at the underlying problem that is melee. With the introduction of the new BC and BR mods, melee is seeing new light in viability. But that isn't the only problem. We've fixed it's longevity and damage applications into finally getting red crits for it, lets now work on survivability. Blocking right now, needs to be looked at once more. Frames with invulnerability and ranged melee shouldn't be the only ones "good" in it, the should excel, just not be the end all means to melee gameplay. All frames should. Maybe we wouldn't have so many NERF BLADE WAVES or GET RID OF BLADE WAVES threads if melee was more "international" so to speak. 

[EinheriarJudith]

Yeah... mostly as a special attack, not their most basic hit everything and everyone attack.

 

Imagine Ichigo from Bleach (easiest analogy) going GETSUGA TENSHO TENSHO TENSHO TENSHO TENSHO TENSHO TENSHO TENSHO in every fight instead of using it more like a "finisher" or "special move"

i said the same thing to someone else in another thread some anime watchers dont pay any attention to the anime they watch some good examples are like you said bleach and ill throw in Samurai 7, Samurai Deeper Kyo, Samurai Champloo, Rurouni Kenshin. I could go on lol.

Edited February 16, 2016 by EinheriarJudith

[EinheriarJudith]

Considering most people loved exalted blade... No its not the worst they could come up with.

 

The only way i would accept getting rid of exalted blade's waves is if excalibur became faster and lunged forward whenever he meleed with a decent amount of range. Otherwise excalibur is just going to get gunned down before he gets close. 

excalibur isnt faster? there are mods like say rush and armored agility. lung forward? hmm seems like you don't use slash dash and are completely ignoring the fact that he can blind enemies in a wide radius(i wouldn't have minded if they combined super jump into radial blind for better blinding coverage but bullet jump and radial blind works just as good)

[Pro3Display]

I/O mechanics

Once the lvl is high enough it is one hit KO.

Lvl is low enough you can spam any button and win.

I've killed a lvl100 sentient enemy by blind and normal melee alone I know that it takes so long that I almost fell asleep.

I'm a noob at MR21 with all weapons, frames and almost every mods of cause I dont even know what a "decent weapon" is.

well, sry if i offended you, didn't mean to, but i didn't call you noob, i only said that you probably didn't even bother to take other approaches to deal with enemies cause there are exalted blade waves that allowed you to do tons of damage from behind the wall.

sentient enemies are another poor enemy design that is a result of other poor enemy designs and problems raised by previously poor enemy design.

neither am i mentioned your mr, nor questioned your arsenal or skill.

it's just you sacrificed other viable methods for one of the easiest ones.

and your joke is bad

Edited February 16, 2016 by Pro3Display

[letir]

excalibur isnt faster? there are mods like say rush and armored agility. lung forward? hmm seems like you don't use slash dash and are completely ignoring the fact that he can blind enemies in a wide radius(i wouldn't have minded if they combined super jump into radial blind for better blinding coverage but bullet jump and radial blind works just as good)

Every ability cost energy. So, without waves, any Ex need to spend energy on every occasion, just to get a chance to hit enemies with decent melee damage.

 

Yay, such ultimate, much wow.

 

May as well just bring Tonkor and dagger with Cover Lethality.

[AXCrusnik]

Some suggestions from my side:

People say he needs to spam EB or he will get shot, but you forget, Excalibur has autoparry (if you are not spamming E like crazy), and Radial Blind to keep his enemies in check.

Now to the "more mobility" argument. Tenno are fast on their feet already. Radial Blind will help here again, as it hinders enemies from running away. And something many people forget: his #1 - Slash Dash. It is an excellent gapcloser and a mobility tool.

Conclusion: Excalibur has enough mobility and CC to engage in melee combat.

[EinheriarJudith]

Every ability cost energy. So, without waves, any Ex need to spend energy on every occasion, just to get a chance to hit enemies with decent melee damage.

 

Yay, such ultimate, much wow.

 

May as well just bring Tonkor and dagger with Cover Lethality.

i believe any warframe that has a toggle ability that can also use their other non toggle abilities should have a large energy pool to compensate for the use of other powers along side that toggle. energy issues have nothing to do with him being able to hit enemies because it is fact that he can move quickly and can blind an area. your argument shows he might need a larger energy pool which i will take if it means sacrificing the discs that shoot out but im also ok with having them not shoot out at all. excalibur has nice armor with armor mods. by the way Excalibur is the second most powerful FINISHER warframe ash being #1.

 

Some suggestions from my side:

People say he needs to spam EB or he will get shot, but you forget, Excalibur has autoparry (if you are not spamming E like crazy), and Radial Blind to keep his enemies in check.

Now to the "more mobility" argument. Tenno are fast on their feet already. Radial Blind will help here again, as it hinders enemies from running away. And something many people forget: his #1 - Slash Dash. It is an excellent gapcloser and a mobility tool.

Conclusion: Excalibur has enough mobility and CC to engage in melee combat.

 

My thoughts exactly

[Cyandana]

This isn't a nerf EB thread.

This is a complain about how EB's design craps on the concept of melee combat by making the "Melee Warframe"'s ultimate ability have essentially nothing to do with melee combat ... thread.

[EinheriarJudith]

There is no gun that has unlimited punchthrough on 40m range and looks like a sword :P

Ther is a AW gun that shoots energy blades with near unlimited punchthrough though. So Excalibur has Exalted Fluctus basically :P

fluctus is an Archwing GUN.

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

thats why he has radial blind

 

he is fast enough, you just have to, um... press forward button?

iirc lunging forward on melee attacks was discussed when stances were introduced and animation locking with such moves occurred and people didn't like it.

also slash dash is your lunge forward... or slide attack. it has radial blind in it btw

 

 

you are mistaking butter knife that exist solely to cut butter with a butter knife that turns everything it cuts into butter.

ofc people like it, it's easy mode - as an example post from above:

the guy don't even know that this acolyte can be melee'd with any decent melee weapon, or just shot with a good gun without any problem.

because *whoosh* *whoosh* is safest thing ever.

 

 

 

except his ult should be self-sufficient in itself.

 

Ash doesn't need to teleport to enemies to bladestorm them

vaubun doesn't need to bounce pad an enemy to get them into a bastille or vortex.

Excalibur has waves from his sword for the soul purpose of dealing damage to an enemy far away relatively quickly. 

To compensate for not having the waves you need to trade them for:

Faster movement speed/lunge etc.

 

People like excalibur for his waves. If you want to keep them happy, you need to trade the waves for something that is equally as good.

 

And people said no the lunge before ever trying it out first. If anyone has played destiny, The sword play feels more satisfying due to all the attacks having a small lunge. (the only thing destiny does that is better then warframe)

Edited February 17, 2016 by (PS4)UltraKardas

[Pro3Display]

except his ult should be self-sufficient in itself.

 

Ash doesn't need to teleport to enemies to bladestorm them

vaubun doesn't need to bounce pad an enemy to get them into a bastille or vortex.

Excalibur has waves from his sword for the soul purpose of dealing damage to an enemy far away relatively quickly. 

To compensate for not having the waves you need to trade them for:

Faster movement speed/lunge etc.

 

People like excalibur for his waves. If you want to keep them happy, you need to trade the waves for something that is equally as good.

 

And people said no the lunge before ever trying it out first. If anyone has played destiny, The sword play feels more satisfying due to all the attacks having a small lunge. (the only thing destiny does that is better then warframe)

then why do i see all the gameplay justice warriors cry "use all the saryn abilities, she is stronger now"

but excalibur somehow need an ult that is self sufficient?

double standards are such double

lets be consistent, mkay?

Edited February 17, 2016 by Pro3Display

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

then why do i see all the gameplay justice warriors cry "use all the saryn abilities, she is stronger now"

but excalibur somehow need an ult that is self sufficient?

double standards are such double

lets be consistent, mkay?

 

Re-read my posts. Im 100% consistent

 

Miasma deals damage to any enemies in range. Removing exalted blades waves would be akin to miasma only hurting enemies under spores and toxic lash. Miasma deals 350 base dame to enemies. Any enemy effected by viral or toxic procs makes miasma deal 100% more damage. Its like using accelerant as an ember to deal more fire damage. 

 

You could grab a proc weapon like a vaykor marelok and mod it for viral shoot an enemy with it and miasma would do 100% more damage to that enemy. Miasma would still hit the enemy regardless. People using spores and toxic lash before miasma makes it do 200% more damage for a total of 1050 damage every tick for 3150 damage total. Again much like accelerant WOF which just make one ability do more damage. If one person wanted to do max damage with miasma they could bring a gun with a toxic proc use spores. toxic proc and miasma and you would get a 3150 damage miasma out of it as well as spores damage and the gun toxic damage. 

 

Removing waves on excalibur and only putting them on charge attacks wouldn't change anything except nerf him a bit as people would just charge attack E spam. Except for his waves and his auto parry Exalted blade is a weaker Hysteria, And people can use warcry to buff hysteria to do tons of damage and last forever with eternal war) Valkyr has no problem getting close to enemies while high level enemies can still kill excalibur while auto parrying while he tries to get to his enemies to kill them. Im suggesting the simplest solution possible to trade off waves for a boost of movement speed and a lock on lunge attack ( like archwing ) Removing the waves is a straight nerf, in order to keep balance you need to replace it with something of equal value. A buff to movement speed and a lunge would make him more of a melee frame then the charge attack wave attacks, Its also the best option. Slash Dash and radial blind wouldn't be required, Like how world on fire doesn't need accelerant but can buff the damage or how warcry can boost walker's damage but hysteria doesn't need it either. ( And the armor boost for warcry doesn't do anything... More armored immortality still equals immortality )

 

Before you suggest anything else, I recommend you go play a sortie and use melee only. (no naramon of hysteria or exalted blade allowed) After doing that you can comment on what you think should be a fair trade that would replace the waves

Edited February 17, 2016 by (PS4)UltraKardas

[Rambit23Z]

Alternatively, slap on body count + blood rush on your melee weapon and voila!

Exalted blade without waves.

You even get to choose which type of weapon; hammers, polearms, dual axes, etc.

Just don't blame anyone when you reach the point where damage falls off and you are left with a squishy 100base hp frame 150base armor 100base shield frame trying to slap the enemies with your melee weapon without invulnerability or range.

Well, at least your melee weapon will stay with you when you engage the nullifiers and disruptors in melee range.

 

A good melee weapon with bodycount and blood rush barely falls off at all. My Destreza was one-shotting throughout the 3rd Sortie. (Grineer defense with enhanced elemental resistance.)

[ShortCat]

Re-read my posts. Im 100% consistent

No, you aren't.

 

Excalibur deasn't need more mobility, because he already has it. If he gets more mobility on his #4 or elsewhere, then Slashdash will become useless. Think about the whole Frame for a second.

 

People like excalibur for his waves. If you want to keep them happy, you need to trade the waves for something that is equally as good.

No. I like excal for his looks with Proto armor and his whole toolkit, not some groundbreaking waves.

 

except his ult should be self-sufficient in itself.

Who said this? You?

[Autongnosis]

fluctus is an Archwing GUN.

I know, i wrote that :P

The point was that by gun i meant only ground based guns, as it wouldn't really make sense to have ground-based weapons compared to the ones used for space combat... Oh, wait...