How Is Exalted Blade Different From A Gun?

[Epsik-kun]

My comprehensive Exalted Blade rework suggestion

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

-snip-

 

Right, Cause I totally wanted to spend 25 energy to travel 10 meters forward to slash an enemy. 

 

Most Excaliburs either build a slash dash build for the fun of it or build an exalted blade oriented build to deal more damage.

( 8 energy per cast - max of 3 kills per use ) vs ( .75 energy per second and can kill entire groups of enemies quickly.

 

Now you can point out where I'm "not" consistent but I'm pretty consistently trying to stop you guys from making excalibur's ultimate trash for no reason.

 

Radial blind is a good ability but it shouldn't be necessary every time excalibur wants to slash people. Since you and others like you have failed to think about the consequences of removing the exalted blade's waves ( or limiting them to combos/heavy attacks only )

 

Excalibur now either spams charge attacks combos to get the waves to hit enemies ( have fun with nullifiers and scrambus ) resulting in charge attack spam... Won't be much different from how it is. Or Excalibur becomes a squishy copy of valkyr, that will most likely get himself killed as he has to get close to any enemy. A simple mobility boost gives him the ability to close the distance between him and an enemy as well as move quick enough not to be gunned down or hit by a bombard/napalm. Now nothing is stopping the mobility boost from effecting slash dash for faster movement, But slash dash shouldn't be required. 

 

You can remove the 40 meters of infinite punch through waves but you guys really need to give excalibur something to compensate for it.

Waves on combos/charge attacks won't fix the problem. If you have another idea that you think would be a fair trade off feel free to add but otherwise its just a nerf to the frame that doesn't deserve it. 

 

Waves travel 40 meters and can hit multiple enemies allowing excalibur to clear rooms very quickly, Slash dash maybe kills three in the time exalted blade can clear a hallway. You can increase the size of exalted blade, Give it larger attacks and punch through to hit multiple enemies, but you still giving him a hard nerf if he can't kill enemies as fast as the current excal can.

[Corvid]

Swailwort, on 16 Feb 2016 - 02:29 AM, said:

One problem. Warframe is NOT an anime.

 

Warframe has always had anime inspirations, right from the very beginning.

[Pro3Display]

-snip-

you are trying to balance exalted blade around exalted blade. that's not how balancing works

 

moving it to charge attack lowers the frequency of waves emitted by his ult by 2-3 times.

slash dash is still an option and is not mandatory (i don't hear chromas complaining about lack of mobility)

parkour and slide attacks are there for a reason

valkyr damage is nowhere near excal, neither her mobility, nor crowd control ability.

excal got "ten times" more tools hence he is not straight up invincible- he got damage reduction,

and even then he hides under an impenetrable box with exclamation mark and shoots with his sword from inside of it

 

also you seem to forget that efficiency build with 75% cost reduction and 108% duration doesn't take too much to have and perfectly leaves you with near infinite EB and ability to slash dash when needed.

also free blind on slide attack (oh, look, mobility and a free CC).

 

also some of words that doesn't belong to me but to the forums:

"mesa ult is a hold and go afk - nerf!"

"saryn ult is press 4 to win - nerf!"

"excalibur ult is a E buttonmasherz - thank you DE it's so fluffy i'm gonna die fun" oh wait......

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

you are trying to balance exalted blade around exalted blade. that's not how balancing works

 

moving it to charge attack lowers the frequency of waves emitted by his ult by 2-3 times.

slash dash is still an option and is not mandatory (i don't hear chromas complaining about lack of mobility)

parkour and slide attacks are there for a reason

valkyr damage is nowhere near excal, neither her mobility, nor crowd control ability.

excal got "ten times" more tools hence he is not straight up invincible- he got damage reduction,

and even then he hides under an impenetrable box with exclamation mark and shoots with his sword from inside of it

 

also you seem to forget that efficiency build with 75% cost reduction and 108% duration doesn't take too much to have and perfectly leaves you with near infinite EB and ability to slash dash when needed.

also free blind on slide attack (oh, look, mobility and a free CC).

 

also some of words that doesn't belong to me but to the forums:

"mesa ult is a hold and go afk - nerf!"

"saryn ult is press 4 to win - nerf!"

"excalibur ult is a E buttonmasherz - thank you DE it's so fluffy i'm gonna die fun" oh wait......

 

Problem with your logic, chroma's ultimate doesn't require him to get in melee range though, and ice chroma is the tankiest of all frames being able to get absurds amount of armor. A 7,000 armor chroma has nothing to fear. And I'm not balancing exalted blade around exalted blade, Im balancing it around what other frames already have to offer. (Valkyr, and Ivara as they are the most similar with their ults)

 

Excalibur is in a good spot right now, He's fairly balanced with his only flaw being that people don't think he is "melee enough"

Despite your opinion you can just nerf him without throwing him back to ember tier, He doesn't warrant the nerf that you claim he does.

 

Valkyr and Excalibur do the same amount of damage with their ultimates.

 

The difference between the two is: Valkyr is immortal, Excalibur has more range and but is vulnerable to damage. 

Ivan can effectively stay safe with prowl and do great damage with artemis bow, Valkyr is safely protected by hysteria that not even The Jordas Raid can bypass. Excalibur gets an autoparry and a blind but that gets rather energy draining after awhile. And the blind isn't even all that special considering both ivara and valkyr can cc enemies.

 

Excalibur's only unique feature is the range on exalted blade, Remove that and Excalibur becomes inferior to valkyr in every way. 

 

So What are some ways we could remove the energy waves on exalted blade without it becoming inferior to hysteria? 

Nerfing Hysteria is not an answer as then we enter a never ending spiral of nerf everything till no warfame has a damaging ability. 

 

Option A: Keep excalibur as he is. Reasonably damaging and has good amounts of utility. A strong frame in his own right that lets anyone be useful in any mission.

Option B: Replace the waves for a movement speed buff and a lock on lunge that puts the emphasis on speed and slashes to kill his enemies

Option C: Excalibur gets a power cost reduction on his other abilities while in exalted blade, ( I'd be happy slash dashing everywhere if it cost me 0 energy)

Option D: (insert your own clever idea here)

 

Sadly, remove or limit energy waves is not an answer as that neither benefits him as a melee frame or changes the current play style you and others complain about

[ShortCat]

-snip-

You are constantly talking about bad energy efficiency and lack of survivability, at this point I am kinda curious what build are you running?

 

The complaints are not so much that he is not a melee frame, but that EB is just too strong.

 

And this one sentence bugged me in particular:

Excalibur's only unique feature is the range on exalted blade, Remove that and Excalibur becomes inferior to valkyr in every way. 

What about RB, a very good CC ability with unlimited damage potential?

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

You are constantly talking about bad energy efficiency and lack of survivability, at this point I am kinda curious what build are you running?

 

The complaints are not so much that he is not a melee frame, but that EB is just too strong.

 

And this one sentence bugged me in particular:

What about RB, a very good CC ability with unlimited damage potential?

 

What about RB? Valkyr has the same damage capability with paralysis (except less energy cost ) and ivara has similar cc with sleep arrows. Out of the three warframes that have usable weapon ults both melee classes can do finishers.

[EinheriarJudith]

you are trying to balance exalted blade around exalted blade. that's not how balancing works

 

moving it to charge attack lowers the frequency of waves emitted by his ult by 2-3 times.

slash dash is still an option and is not mandatory (i don't hear chromas complaining about lack of mobility)

parkour and slide attacks are there for a reason

valkyr damage is nowhere near excal, neither her mobility, nor crowd control ability.

excal got "ten times" more tools hence he is not straight up invincible- he got damage reduction,

and even then he hides under an impenetrable box with exclamation mark and shoots with his sword from inside of it

 

also you seem to forget that efficiency build with 75% cost reduction and 108% duration doesn't take too much to have and perfectly leaves you with near infinite EB and ability to slash dash when needed.

also free blind on slide attack (oh, look, mobility and a free CC).

 

also some of words that doesn't belong to me but to the forums:

"mesa ult is a hold and go afk - nerf!"

"saryn ult is press 4 to win - nerf!"

"excalibur ult is a E buttonmasherz - thank you DE it's so fluffy i'm gonna die fun" oh wait......

hahahahaha thank you!!!! ^_^ explained very precisely.

[EinheriarJudith]

What about RB? Valkyr has the same damage capability with paralysis (except less energy cost ) and ivara has similar cc with sleep arrows. Out of the three warframes that have usable weapon ults both melee classes can do finishers.

sleep arrow is far weaker as CC compared to radial blind you cant even use it to compare really a better CC comparison would be reckoning since it blinds and knocks down targets in its effect and blinds targets near those targets in a WIDE range.

[Catacomb]

His ultimate used to be shooting blades at enemies... His ultimate has alway been a ranged attack with a melee style.

[EinheriarJudith]

His ultimate used to be shooting blades at enemies... His ultimate has alway been a ranged attack with a melee style.

it didnt shoot it materialized there is a difference he never shot blades.

[Catacomb]

it didnt shoot it materialized there is a difference he never shot blades.

He shot them from his own sword at first.

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

How about we keep the prime and normal versions of Excalibur as it is; make the umbra version without waves and tankier or whatever and everyone's happy.

Maybe also make it possible to switch skins (Umbra skin on a Prime or Normal Skin on an Umbra) regardless what version you using as long as you own the frame (to have Prime look you must own prime; to have umbra look you must own umbra; to have normal look you must own normal excal) of the looks you want to switch into.

Solution:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/609111-use-umbra-to-test-out-changes-wont-affect-look-of-frame/

My take on Excalibur Umbra:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/609842-excalibur-umbra/

The only downside is you need 1 more warframe slot to play as the ability version you want and look version you want.

Other than that, everything's solved.

If people still complain after this then it's pretty obvious they aren't trying to balance for fun but more of "why he kill more than me..boohoo..must nerf".

One frame; 3 versions; 2 styles

Make it happen!

Edited February 18, 2016 by OoKeNnEtHoO

[EinheriarJudith]

i don't see how moving the discs to charge attack doesn't benefit everyone.

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

i don't see how moving the discs to charge attack doesn't benefit everyone

 

Simple, How does changing it to charge attacks only benefit anything? 

 

You just get charge attack e spam.

 

And you and others like you don't realize you need to keep excalibur valid by balancing him around valkyr and ivara. 

 

Hysteria and warcry can last a very long time ( same damage as exalted blade but much faster attack speed ) Paralysis to use finisher attacks on targets and invulnerability. Eternal War can make warcry last indefinitely (75 energy for a 10 minute buff isn't bad at all) 

 

Ivara with her various CC Invisibility and Ranged Ultimate

 

Vs excalibur who has no protection outside of autoparry reducing damage by 60% and a stun costing 50 energy.

 

Valkyr's natural armor and warcry offers about as much protection as exalted blade does, But effects all the damage valkyr takes vs excal only parrying frontal damage. Hysteria immortality blows Auto-parry out of the water. Paralysis offers more specialized assassination attacks for less energy while still getting the job done. 

 

So any change to excalibur's ultimate (removing/altering the waves) makes him an inferior warframe to valkyr.

 

So you can hate on the exalted waves as much as you want. But they need to stay in order to keep excalibur balanced, Otherwise come up with an idea that is an alternative that still keeps him valid ( something nobody has really done except 

 

How about we keep the prime and normal versions of Excalibur as it is; make the umbra version without waves and tankier or whatever and everyone's happy.

Solution:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/609111-use-umbra-to-test-out-changes-wont-affect-look-of-frame/

My take on Excalibur Umbra:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/609842-excalibur-umbra/

 

[EinheriarJudith]

Simple, How does changing it to charge attacks only benefit anything? 

 

You just get charge attack e spam.

 

And you and others like you don't realize you need to keep excalibur valid by balancing him around valkyr and ivara. 

 

Hysteria and warcry can last a very long time ( same damage as exalted blade but much faster attack speed ) Paralysis to use finisher attacks on targets and invulnerability. Eternal War can make warcry last indefinitely (75 energy for a 10 minute buff isn't bad at all) 

 

Ivara with her various CC Invisibility and Ranged Ultimate

 

Vs excalibur who has no protection outside of autoparry reducing damage by 60% and a stun costing 50 energy.

 

Valkyr's natural armor and warcry offers about as much protection as exalted blade does, But effects all the damage valkyr takes vs excal only parrying frontal damage. Hysteria immortality blows Auto-parry out of the water. Paralysis offers more specialized assassination attacks for less energy while still getting the job done. 

 

So any change to excalibur's ultimate (removing/altering the waves) makes him an inferior warframe to valkyr.

 

So you can hate on the exalted waves as much as you want. But they need to stay in order to keep excalibur balanced, Otherwise come up with an idea that is an alternative that still keeps him valid ( something nobody has really done except 

balancing him around ivara and valkyr? i think you have it backwards. DE is balancing all weapon ult frames around excalibur. keep him valid? he's always been valid. who spams charge attack? only those using throw weapons. no one is going to spam charge attack if the discs get moved to it. how does it benefit from changing the discs to charge attack? now EB would have been brought back into the realm it should be(MELEE). i mean seriously you think excal is not as valid as valkyr when his CC destroys any of her CC, his speed is faster than that of her own, and my god lets not talk about damage, its astronomical and that isn't a complaint. Radial Blind > Sleep Arrow period.

Edited February 18, 2016 by EinheriarJudith

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

balancing him around ivara and valkyr? i think you have it backwards. DE is balancing all weapon ult frames around excalibur. keep him valid? he's always been valid. who spams charge attack? only those using throw weapons. no one is going to spam charge attack if the discs get moved to it. how does it benefit from changing the discs to charge attack? now EB would have been brought back into the realm it should be(MELEE). i mean seriously you think excal is not as valid as valkyr when his CC destroys any of her CC, his speed is faster than that of her own, and my god lets not talk about damage, its astronomical and that isn't a complaint. Radial Blind > Sleep Arrow period.

 

How long have you played warframe? Cause when i first started playing charge attacks are the only things people ever used. I miss the old galatine charge attack as it was so satisfying. Melee 2.0 Came out and it was flashier and could do more damage eventually... but some people missed charge attacks and they brought them back. 

 

If excalibur only gets his waves on charge attacks people are going to prefer to spam that then to waste energy on a radial blind so they can run up to an enemy and kill it. 

 

Radial blind uses 50 energy and is decent. But You underestimate sleep arrow that has more range and can be used to sleep any enemy. You don't need to be near the enemy to hit them. 

 

Hysteria has also been around along time. Its changed over time but its always been an ability that made walker immortal. Exalted blade's only gimmick that makes it a viable option versus hysteria is its range. You seem to ignore this. 

 

Excalibur's 225 armor and 60% damage reduction versus immortal claws.

 

Hysteria Vs Exalted blade Vs Artemis Bow

 

Hysteria Pros: Immortal High damage and can be modded for low energy cost.

Artemis Pros: Ranged High Damage Low energy cost and can be used with Prowl to be used safely

Exalted Pros: Ranged High Damage auto parry ( autoparry is the weakest of the defenses of each Warframe )

 

Valkyr can perform finishers cheaper then excalibur can ( 5 energy vs 50 energy )

Valkyr is highly damage resistant versus Excalibur's relative tankiness

Valkyr can use zipline to get to enemies or pull them towards herself and gets a combo counter. Slash dash doesn't even get a combo counter

Sleep arrow is ranged and can hit any enemy anywhere as long as line of sight, Radial javelin is more expensive and requires a general proximity to blind the enemies 

 

Valkyr's Hysteria and warcry not only outdamage excalibur but also keep valkyr safer then excalibur.

Artemis is inherently ranged and can kill enemies before excalibur can get to them. Is inherently safer with prowl and being ranged base ( Plus all those tripwire arrows don't hurt )

 

Excalibur has less protection and about as much cc as the other two. ( Ivara and Valkyr have cc thats cheaper then excalibur's which make them superior as they can take out the enemies that are actually a threat. Ex: using sleep arrow or paralysis to take out a bombard safely from across the map or while in hysteria versus being in the bombard's effective range. 

 

If you still refuse to understand my point, Go run a sortie solo and limit yourself to only melee. Valkyr can easily do it. Excalibur has a harder time as he needs to stay mobile to survive or keep using radial blind for protection. 

[AKKILLA]

Simple, How does changing it to charge attacks only benefit anything? 

 

You just get charge attack e spam.

 

And you and others like you don't realize you need to keep excalibur valid by balancing him around valkyr and ivara. 

 

Hysteria and warcry can last a very long time ( same damage as exalted blade but much faster attack speed ) Paralysis to use finisher attacks on targets and invulnerability. Eternal War can make warcry last indefinitely (75 energy for a 10 minute buff isn't bad at all) 

 

Ivara with her various CC Invisibility and Ranged Ultimate

 

Vs excalibur who has no protection outside of autoparry reducing damage by 60% and a stun costing 50 energy.

 

Valkyr's natural armor and warcry offers about as much protection as exalted blade does, But effects all the damage valkyr takes vs excal only parrying frontal damage. Hysteria immortality blows Auto-parry out of the water. Paralysis offers more specialized assassination attacks for less energy while still getting the job done. 

 

So any change to excalibur's ultimate (removing/altering the waves) makes him an inferior warframe to valkyr.

 

So you can hate on the exalted waves as much as you want. But they need to stay in order to keep excalibur balanced, Otherwise come up with an idea that is an alternative that still keeps him valid ( something nobody has really done except 

 

You forget how dope Prolonged Paralysis is My dude, well idk if you have used it but I spam the hell out that augment.

 

Try using it in Hysteria and spam Paralysis, enemies land at Your feet and You turn into a Grineer Blender xD

[EinheriarJudith]

~snip~

i was there back in the day when melee normally had charge attacks. we aren't talking about the past we are talking about the present and future. valkyr's niche is invincibility but here is the problem. she has the highest armor of all warframes including with warcry so tell me again why is that much armor needed if she can almost indefinitely stay invincible(not to mention hysteria passively has life strike without the channel cost)? you cannot even compare the 2 frames in terms of survivability because invincibility is the ultimate defense which is why it should not even be a thing someone can turn on and off in this game. Ivara is a true to the word ranged frame being her abilities are focused solely on ranged attacks. the only reason she is even being mentioned here is because her ult is a weapon change one. she isn't a melee frame

Edited February 18, 2016 by EinheriarJudith

[AKKILLA]

balancing him around ivara and valkyr? i think you have it backwards. DE is balancing all weapon ult frames around excalibur. keep him valid? he's always been valid. who spams charge attack? only those using throw weapons. no one is going to spam charge attack if the discs get moved to it. how does it benefit from changing the discs to charge attack? now EB would have been brought back into the realm it should be(MELEE). i mean seriously you think excal is not as valid as valkyr when his CC destroys any of her CC, his speed is faster than that of her own, and my god lets not talk about damage, its astronomical and that isn't a complaint. Radial Blind > Sleep Arrow period.

 

EB doesnt have a Realm, well atleast to your Logic. Warframe has no Realistic Logic. its a Scifi Fantasy Melee shooter caster Space Ninja game.

Because You dont like Slashes floating in the air doesnt mean its bad nor it should be taken out the game.

 

BTW Exalted Blade isnt Your ordinary Melee weapon My Dude

Summon a sword of pure LIGHT and immense POWER

Edited February 18, 2016 by AKKILLA

[EinheriarJudith]

EB doesnt have a Realm, well atleast to your Logic. Warframe has no Realistic Logic. its a Scifi Fantasy Melee shooter caster Space Ninja game.

Because You dont like Slashes floating in the air doesnt mean its bad nor it should be taken out the game.

 

BTW Exalted Blade isnt Your ordinary Melee weapon My Dude

Summon a sword of pure LIGHT and immense POWER

whats funny is i didnt say it needs to be taken out of the game but moved to a different mechanic and most swordsman anything that people take things from if scifi fantasy land in anime/cartoons and in said places they dont walk around spamming waves of energy.

[AKKILLA]

Remember DE made Exalted Blade not us, They created the Slash waves and Im sure they wanted this. Why isnt the community embracing this cool &#! Ultimate?

 

I know why most people dont like, They must want there Favorite Frames to be OP as well.  I would prefer all Frames be OP, it is possible if we all unite and agree on common ideas but this community is a Giant Tug-or-War.

 

Nerf this! Buff That! back and forth never ending its hard for this game to properly progress. Id rather DE just completely destroy Forums and make this game how they see fit cuz while there are great ideas and great artists in the community theres also too much controversy and not enough agreeing on something.

 

There are groups who like EB and others who dont.

 

My analysis, the ones who dont like EB arent anime fans, the ones who are are die hard anime fans. Dont claim to be now anime fans and start yellin out Bleach cuz I dont watch Bleach. 

 

I love My Exalted Hadukens idk bout Yall

[AKKILLA]

if you wanna talk logic since anime characters dont fling waves as you say.

 

how the hell do capture targets get escorted to extraction via a tennos hand?

 

makes no sense

[AKKILLA]

lets leave EB alone and make slash dash like this

[EinheriarJudith]

if you wanna talk logic since anime characters dont fling waves as you say.

 

how the hell do capture targets get escorted to extraction via a tennos hand?

 

makes no sense

the warframes use void energy. think Ultraviolet.