Saryn rework: 4 months later. How'd it turn out?

[TARINunit9]

Wow, time flies, doesn't it? Nearly four months since Saryn was reworked

Anyway, onto my actual question: now that time has passed, the dust has settled, the tempers have all cooled off, and we've had time to experiment, I ask you: how do y'all feel about Saryn?

I personally love how Venom/Spores were buffed into what can only be described as "Speed Nova, by way of the Plague"... but I'm not sure Miasma really turned out the way DE was hoping it would; I use it mostly to blind things rather than kill them

[Trichouette]

I'm just jealous because she has the best set of ability of the game.

Synergy and 4 useful abilities.

[xbigUwU]

Saryn is one of my favorite frames and I take her pretty much anywhere. I don't mind miasma much as it is. I don't believe every ultimate has to be able to instakill at high levels, but do a good amount of damage to help out. You gotta use it all or have none of it with saryn though ya know ~ hahaha

[Thyriell]

I'm loving her post rework. Previously I would only use her to speed run tower ext; or as we better know it press 4 to win. There's no fun or balance in that.

Post buff she has arguably some of the best synergy in game, which gives much more engaging and entertaining playstyle.

 

[Reifnir]

16 minutes ago, Trichouette said:

I'm just jealous because she has the best set of ability of the game.

Synergy and 4 useful abilities.

Was that sarcasm?

Because current Saryn is a prime (pun intended) example of a forced and cluster... derped synergy that is clunky as hell.

And no, inb4 current Saryn defenders start cawing, we don't want the old "press 4 to win" Saryn back. We want the current one overhauled into a (finaly) useful form with MORE debuffs, MORE control and streamlined/easy way of applying those. Full Miasma duration stagger, armor stripping/incoming damage debuff, party buff toxic lash, invulnerability timer on Molt - tons of good suggestions have been made already. 

 

[TheFalseEclipse]

kinda miss the press 4 to win but still love the changes, especially spores and lashes

[Wevi]

Trash
Unless after lvl50 without 4x cp
You can only use tox aoe weapons to effectively use and spread spore
Viral ticks steal kills from other squad members which they then proceed to screenshot and say they she is still good

Saryn was in fact improved compared to her old version however after the rework she fills unfinished and lacks a scaleable amount of damage to be useful.

Maybe if popping spores or on the first viral proc would stagger enemies or miasma does a torid toxic bubble that covers a large area to instantly break spores

 

 

Edited February 26, 2016 by xxcib21xx

[MopUpCrewman]

Hated Saryn before rework but now I love her. I only find it difficult to find a build that suits my playstyle but other than that she's great.

[(PSN)federally]

The rework turned out great

 

She has a really well rounded kit and a bunch of QoL improvements other frames are missing that just makes her a joy to play. 

 

All four abilities are useful, multiple layers of synergy and depth to her abilities, her ability that needs to be spammed is a one handed action, her molt and Toxic Lash can be recast, and she has multiple builds that allow different play styles without crippling any part of her kit.

All without making her so strong as to take away gameplay opportunities from your teammates.

[YasaiTsume]

She needs more, but the Saryn Megathread has been removed, we were not blessed with as many buffs as we hoped, and we have no news of Saryn ever getting anymore buffs.
 

Spoiler

She could use a few buffs and I'm not sure if DE even play tested her beforehand. 

It's like they gave her a ability casting heavy kit but didn't rework her Energy costs. 

 

[Reifnir]

13 minutes ago, (PS4)federally said:

All without making her so strong as to take away gameplay opportunities from your teammates.

Now that's a polite way of saying "She's just playing her own Synergy game without really contributing to the team" if I ever saw one :D

[Chroia]

40 minutes ago, Reifnir said:

current Saryn is a prime (pun intended) example of a forced and cluster... derped synergy that is clunky as hell.

This.

 

Spores gaining status heredity is awesome (and a straight - if not large - buff).

Molt got a bunch of interactions, and is better and much more interesting than before. (Though still not a very effective escape ability.)

Lash got a buff, but I, personally, find it a mismatch with her kit/stats. Although that may be a playstyle issue.

Miasma... urg. I'm glad for the mechanical change from 'x tics across duration' to 'tic every X for duration'. But as a damage skill, let alone a 4th, it's extremely sub-par. With all the buildup (and ignoring ability range underlaps), it's maybe as potent as before? But without it you're better off using the energy for anything else.

 

Spores interacting with status effects is synergy.

Lash interacting with Spores and Molt is synergy, but it's also a dependency for energy generation/upkeep.

Molt interacting with Spores is synergy.

Anything/Miasma is a straight dependency.

Synergy is 'this works, and this works, and together they're even better!'

Miasma (and her kit's coverage -> recasts - again, unless abusing Spores) doesn't work.

 

Further, her energy generation-to-expenditure is hugely lossy if you're using more of her kit than just Spores or Molt/Spores, unless you're either in low enough levels - or camping - and so able to use Toxic Lash for energy.

 

tl;dr - OP pretty much covered how I feel about it.

Edited February 26, 2016 by Chroia

[LascarCapable]

Some people say it's terrible, some say it's not. All I know is that you can make insane poison ticks through spore, which is something that a lot of people from the community does not seem aware of. Vidéo proof right here :

Spores seems to work like this : any target affected by a toxin proc (gas proc is fine too) where the spores gets destroyed will trigger a Toxin AND a Viral proc on all surrounding targets. Damage dealt is a percentage of the damage you inflicted, which explains why you can hit spore ticks with 20k damage. That percentge is even affected by power strenght.

When I see this, I am not even convinced if using Miasma is really worth it. Some Saryn players says that it's still very good because it adds some DPS, but I don't see how Miasma would really matter when you can already set poison ticks with 50k damage.

[Burnthesteak87]

The Saryn 2.0 is pretty nice.
She just needs some QoL.

> More survivability through stats (can't say if Primed version solved it);
> Energy gain and management (but that's imho is a problem bound to the Energy System overall), it's not uncommon ending up all energy despite Flow;
 It's interesting that mechanic of energy refunding through Toxic Leash and Spores, I feel it should be baseline.
> Molt thoughness and utility in high level missions.

Just ignore haters.

Edited February 26, 2016 by Burnthesteak87

[Autongnosis]

Well, i personally enjoyed her rework a lot so far. Been running a pure melee build with Lacera (Corrosive+Fire status), i have enough energy to spam stuff to oblivion and back, and Miasma deals decentish damage even later on - though the most useful thing is the Corrosive proc it has a good chance of applying each time it ticks, and the stagger.

The kit itself is decently rounded and i like how basically you can go around doing a lot of things with how her skills interact that are only limited by how much imagination you have in combining the various things.

She needs to hone a few rough edges though:

• Molt could use some invulnerability timer/damage absorbtion period like Iron Skin/Snow Globe/Warding Halo
• Toxin Lash (imho) would be awesome if it either buffed also teammates' weapons (worrying about EB/Hysteria though, should imho get restricted) or if it buffed your weapon's range by a flat value (maybe 2-4m or around there) scaling on range.
• Miasma is the only skill i think should be revamped deeply. I still feel like having Saryn leave a lingering cloud of smoke for a higher base duration (IE 8s) that staggers enemies entering and applies an accuracy debuff, with a guaranteed Corrosive proc upon entrance plus a decent status chance for each tick would be much better than what we currently have. Obviously would have to be ticking for way less and have a cap on stackability (no near infinite damage potential).

[Reifnir]

3 minutes ago, D20 said:

Some people say it's terrible, some say it's not. All I know is that you can make insane poison ticks through spore. Vidéo proof right here :

 

Uhm, unless I missed something, there were two Lanka crits followed by ~1400 damage poison ticks. Two shots from Synoid Simulor does that and more, Tonkor would've done tons more. TL;DR: not really impressive.

[Arkhenbarn]

For those who say the energy consumption is terrible, you overlook the fact that hitting an enemy affected by Spores with your melee while under the effects of Toxic Lash will restore 2 points of energy for each Spore burst.

So basically :

1. Arm Toxic Lash
2. Throw Spore on an enemy with some friends around
3. Enjoy

[Reifnir]

4 minutes ago, Arkhenbarn said:

• Arm Toxic Lash
• Throw Spore on an enemy with some friends around
• Enjoy

You forgot "Die horribly to Crewman/Bombard gunfire/Ancient harpooning you into a crowd" somewhere. Kinda one of the reasons adding heavy CC to Miasma was suggested repeatedly.

Edited February 26, 2016 by Reifnir

[Trichouette]

58 minutes ago, Reifnir said:

Was that sarcasm?

Because current Saryn is a prime (pun intended) example of a forced and cluster... derped synergy that is clunky as hell.

And no, inb4 current Saryn defenders start cawing, we don't want the old "press 4 to win" Saryn back. We want the current one overhauled into a (finaly) useful form with MORE debuffs, MORE control and streamlined/easy way of applying those. Full Miasma duration stagger, armor stripping/incoming damage debuff, party buff toxic lash, invulnerability timer on Molt - tons of good suggestions have been made already. 

 

No that wasn't sarcasm. She, and exca, are the only frame (in my opinion) to have 4 useful abilities.

And she's the only frame to have actual synergy between abilities.

[Arkhenbarn]

2 minutes ago, Reifnir said:

You forgot "Die horribly to Crewman/Bombard gunfire/Ancient harpooning you into a crowd somewhere. Kinda one of the reasons adding heavy CC to Miasma was suggested repeatedly.

You get a boost for melee blocking from Toxic Lash, but yeah, it only protects your front. On the other hand, Regenerative Molt works pretty well too, it draws enemy fire and gives you Health Regen. I never died because of Crewman/etc. so far, but I can easily imagine the situation.

[Ziegrif]

Still really damn squishy.

[Reifnir]

2 minutes ago, Trichouette said:

No that wasn't sarcasm. She, and exca, are the only frame (in my opinion) to have 4 useful abilities.

And she's the only frame to have actual synergy between abilities.

Synergy for the sake of synergy is not a good thing. 

For example, blowing up Snow Globes for some AoE is a nice synergy. And using Rift Surge to increase damage on Banished enemies is a clunky, underperforming synergy.

How many people actively use Limbo nowadays for anything other than banishing the Sortie defense target? Saryn ATM is just that - a synergy for the sake of synergy with not nearly enough benefits to bother. 

[-TSA-voshond]

I still miss the old Saryn, for one good reason: Efficiency.

i am obsessed with efficiency and always will be.

 

My thoughts on the new Rework? It certainly -can- be useful. What i don't like is that the "synergy" doesn't feel like it. It feels more of a "must have" to make other abilities worth late. They are basically DMG boost buffs that everyone always wants. There is no reason not to use them, specially late game. So i am forced to make a combo all the time to gain the DMG i could have done before with 1 or 2 pushes of a button. If the synergy would be less needed for DMG rather than increasing utility like range, slow or anything that isnt affecting the effective DMG it would make more sense to use them in certain cases.

 

right now i just stick to alternatives but her prime looks decent!

[SilentCircle]

Well, DE has the stats. How much is Saryn used after the rework compared to before. Maybe they'll let us know.

[Trichouette]

23 minutes ago, Reifnir said:

Synergy for the sake of synergy is not a good thing. 

For example, blowing up Snow Globes for some AoE is a nice synergy. And using Rift Surge to increase damage on Banished enemies is a clunky, underperforming synergy.

How many people actively use Limbo nowadays for anything other than banishing the Sortie defense target? Saryn ATM is just that - a synergy for the sake of synergy with not nearly enough benefits to bother. 

I don't even see how any of this make sense.

Each of saryn's ability work with at least another of her abilities.

Spore works on molt

Molt increase damage of miasma

Toxic lash proc n' spread spores

Miasma's damage are greatly increased by toxin & viral procs, that are granted easily by all her other ability.

If that's what you call something bad, damn i want all warframes to be this bad.

 

Frost's exploding snowglobe is poor compared to that, casting another snowglobe is far more useful, and limbo has no synergy at all if you remove that poor third ability that works only for himself. Limbo's synergy come from playing with a team he can banish to help.