Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Ashafa

Auction House

Recommended Posts

Players are locked down into one chat tab for trading in an MMO (massive multiplayer). Personal preference isnt a justification for the current system for youre failing to factor in player use by volume.

 

I watch Twitch streams on my TV via Popout Player (TV is setup as my second monitor). So i rarely have Twitch chat showing or even active because of the addons i use with Firefox. On popular streams its impossible to take anything from chat. For its rate of use is to high filling one to two full scrolls every second. Current system in Warframe is equivalent to this.

 

But this is a problem with Twitch, not Warframe. Trade chat is fine. The time limit on messages makes it so the spam is easily managed. Like others have said, if your messages are being ignored, it's a problem with the message and not the chat system. People are willfully ignoring you, they're not missing your message.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Chat spam is not fine. It's hard to follow, forces you to actively focus on it, and is very unwieldy, especially on consoles. The potential audience for any spam you post is tiny, since it's only people who are actively following the chat right at that moment and who manage to actually see your post because they haven't paused chat to read a different post.

 

If you honestly believe that people don't miss messages when watching chat spam, you're simply delusional. It's not possible to follow the chat spam and read every single post. Maybe there are certain incredibly slow times of the day when you can, but I don't know when they are if they even exist.

 

I'm fine with chat spam staying for the subset of people who really enjoy it for whatever reason. Something less rancid would be nice for everyone else, though. Even just an in-game version of warframe.market (with various fixes) would be a huge improvement.

 

Again, though, DE fears the effect efficient trading would have on both the game's economy and, more importantly, their wallets. We're not getting it. It really doesn't matter how much we want it, how many people hate chat spam, or anything else. Their fear trumps everything else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But this is a problem with Twitch, not Warframe. Trade chat is fine. The time limit on messages makes it so the spam is easily managed. Like others have said, if your messages are being ignored, it's a problem with the message and not the chat system. People are willfully ignoring you, they're not missing your message.

 

You keep harping on the same premise that its fine based on the fact that players are or arent advertising correctly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't see how a better trade system would be bad for DE, more plat moving from player to player mean that people using them will have to buy more.

 

And if they really wanted money, there are a lot of way just by making price in the market more fair.

 

The more plats people use, the more money DE will make, and the more plats are moving, higher is the chance someone will buy plats to get some prime stuff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wouldn't mind seeing trade broken into wtb/wts sections. A lot of people would sit there and watch.

There are times i only want a few arcane items and you see your wts message flow off the page.

Same with selling. I have a majority of prime sets and to list them takes up real estate. So its either spam or wait too see a wtb message

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Putting a shorter character cap could help alot to get rid of those annoying textwalls breaking chat, making it easier to follow. After all the main issue here seems to be how fast the chat works, and sadly textwalls don't help much.

Splitting the chat in "buy" and "sell" tabs, it might help, but anyways there will always be a few people trying to trade in Region or recruitment (and vice versa), and thus trying to sell ok "buy" tab ir vice versa (god bless auto filters)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Supposedly at some point we're going to get the ability to create our own personalized tabs that other people can participate in. If it is true that DE doesn't want to create a better trading experience, if they simply give us this, we as a community can do it ourselves.
 

 

That's barely helping... not so many players here and it's the same. People just spam what they're selling.

What we really need is an auction house or just 2 trade chat for WTB & WTS (and maybe WTT)

WTT does need more love. Everybody's so hungry to make plat that it's difficult to make any kind of reasonable deal where plat isn't involved.
 

 

WE do not need an auction house, YOU want it?

 

Go to the trading subforum, there is your auction house.

I keep seeing posts like this that reject the idea of an auction house. Is there a reason an auction house would be bad for warframe?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

WTT does need more love. Everybody's so hungry to make plat that it's difficult to make any kind of reasonable deal where plat isn't involved.

Yeah that's why i added it. Very often i'm like "WTT x for y" and people instantly PM with "HOW MUCH ?" or "OFFER ??" and i'm like "uuh... i said WTT..."

 

 

Putting a shorter character cap could help alot to get rid of those annoying textwalls breaking chat, making it easier to follow. After all the main issue here seems to be how fast the chat works, and sadly textwalls don't help much.

That won't help.

Before U18 the trade chat was not that fast, since U18, everybody came back to the game, and any message get instantly erased.

There are way too many players for a single chat.

 

 

If they ever create a WTB / WTT / WTS chat, tons of people will totally ignore the WTS, pretty sure of this.

Simply because people don't really care about what you're selling.

 

(+1 if you also hate people sending "WTS all my inventory and i'm going to list every single item until i reach the max amount of character for a message")

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If there is one thing RuneScape ever did right, it's the Grand Exchange. Seller and Buyer are hidden, Supply and demand are hidden, but all occurs automatically. No idea why all games don't just go with it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A Auction House like other MMOs have would not work because you can also trade items against each other and some items are special (Kubrow Imprints for example). What would work is a item listing system. A simple searchable list where players can set an item they want to buy/sell and add a note what they want to offer/get for it. So someone who looks for a specific item can simply browse the list and can chat with the seller/buyer to get a deal. This would speed up seach times as the trading chat is simply only a fats moving wall of text half of the day making it a pain to search for specific items.

 

If there is one thing RuneScape ever did right, it's the Grand Exchange. Seller and Buyer are hidden, Supply and demand are hidden, but all occurs automatically. No idea why all games don't just go with it.

 

Im not fluent with this game, but most MMOs have a single currency used, while Warframe has several item-item trades.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Im not fluent with this game, but most MMOs have a single currency used, while Warframe has several item-item trades.

 

It seems pretty obvious that the auction house would purely deal with item to platinum trades. Item to item trades would still be possible, but you'd need to find another way to set them up (i.e. chat spam).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah that's why i added it. Very often i'm like "WTT x for y" and people instantly PM with "HOW MUCH ?" or "OFFER ??" and i'm like "uuh... i said WTT..."

 

 

That's more an issue with some players being idiots and failing at reading comprehension. Adding an auction house is not going to cure people of that...in fact it could be argued that an AH would only make the problem more pronounced.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DE has already done the worst thing that could impact their income by placing platinum for trading to begin with, though they would have looked into this impact before they added it.  Having trading include platinum was one of the major issues that delayed trading from being implemented in the first place and even DE considered trading without platinum.

 

Having some kind of auction house/market would really only increase the platinum sales for DE because it makes it far more accessible to all players, not just a smaller group that frequently use it.  

So if more players have access to trades then it is likely more players will be buying cosmetics, slots, lenses, reactors and catalysts and the like that can be gained from the current marketplace for a good price (or even just buying platinum to use on trading itself, because they don't want to deal with the current chat spam now).

 

The only place I can see any huge impact is for the current major sellers as they would get more competition, but would also get more customers in the process as well  (and potentially better stock buying power too).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just want too play the game not stare at a wall of text for an hour or leave the game to search some random third party site, in WoW I farm I put my S#&$ on the auction house it takes 30 seconds then I'm back to playing the game. The only people who don't want an auction house are sharks and scammers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just want too play the game not stare at a wall of text for an hour or leave the game to search some random third party site, in WoW I farm I put my S#&$ on the auction house it takes 30 seconds then I'm back to playing the game. The only people who don't want an auction house are sharks and scammers.

Great, i'm a shark and scammer simply for being against an auction house. I might say players who want it simply are lazy (don't want to spend more than 30 seconds and then leave their stuff being automatically being sold) and want everything cheap (yeah, prices will go down mostly because everyone will want "their stuff" being sold before other player stuff, and the only chance for that is putting a lower price than my neighbors)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great, i'm a shark and scammer simply for being against an auction house. I might say players who want it simply are lazy (don't want to spend more than 30 seconds and then leave their stuff being automatically being sold) and want everything cheap (yeah, prices will go down mostly because everyone will want "their stuff" being sold before other player stuff, and the only chance for that is putting a lower price than my neighbors)

Not going to go as far as to lay out blanket accusations like "shark" or "scammer" as I'd rather hear why someone is against a specific feature before making a judgment call(and you're the first person whom I've seen actually give a reason for their misgivings about auction houses in this game, so kudos to you!), but I will say that I don't really see why trading in this game shouldn't be made "easy"(or atleast less chaotic than it is, currently. As it is, trying to figure out an appropriate price for a given item is a pain in the &#!, as is trying to keep an eye out for people who have things I want and want things I have and then contacting them before somebody beats me to it).

And if you're worried about item prices plummeting, DE could always implement prices that a person can't sell below for certain items(atleast in the auction house, specifically), or auction houses could be turned into places where people bid for the items on the list and the item goes to the highest bidder. For really in-demand items, this might actually encourage higher plat spending. Either way, it seems to me that certain mechanics could be implemented to prevent costs from going too low, as long as someone's willing to try and figure out the best way to go about it, as it is in both DE's and the community's best interests to keep them reasonable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not that easy man, remember we are on a game with unlimited supplies and limited demand of everything, this allows us to farm as many copies of as we want for anything, being this the reason why items devaluate over time (more players getting their copy of the stuff, less players needing it.

The only way to keep high prices would be limitation of supplies (and I'm not talking about rng, because there will always be farmers farming both, keys and rare pieces 24/7 in order to earn platinum) but reducing the stock (x amount of certain pieces, restocking each Y period of time. If all the pieces are gone, you have to wait for the restock or buy to somebody else, artificially inflating prices).

If you don't believe me, all you need is to check how frost prime, latron prime and reaper prime set prices dropped when the vault opened, and how these sets prices got inflated when they were just vaulted and how their price kept going up due to players buying said pieces to build their own primed frosts/latrons/reapers and thus reducing the market stock. You can do the same with ember/glaive/sicarus prime sets (currently vaulted), or if you want an extreme case of inflation due to offer/demand just go on trade and try buying a primed chamber (about 110 confirmed copies in the whole game, maybe a few more obtained on bugs)

At least I don't want something like that on warframe, but seems like one of the best and easiest ways to implement an auction house

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guys, it's a sellers market out there for rare items and almost everything else is ducat fodder. If you're trying to sell something like Loki P parts or gold mods or something of that nature, only a price so low it makes it almost pointless is going to get a sale without some serious salesmen skill and a lot of patience. Most players don't want to be salesmen, they want to play the game. 

 

That's where the cry for an auction house is originating. Many experienced players have a large pile of void junk and duplicate mods that they would be willing to sell at a fairly low price, but can't find buyers without selling so low it would be better to just do another mission and get some ducats out of the mission you ran instead of chat camping and the for-sale item as well. 

 

However, the current system is beneficial for a few players who have duplicate super-rare items and know how to leverage a pitch to get the best price. If I ever offer a WTB for any item worth over 100p, I often get several offers from people who say they will not dip below a low point above the actual value of the item. I know it's over-priced because I can easily use the multiple offers to get them to complete with each other and viola! the price comes down to what I expected. 

 

So why won't DE change this?

 

Because once a trading house was introduced, where all the players could drop off items for sale and return to playing, the great stockpiles of gear held by people uninterested in the trade-chat rat-race would suddenly flood the market, bringing prices crashing down. While this would increase the value of plat, I think DE fears this would dispel the notion that Warframe was anything but a Pay-to-Win game. I expect that suddenly one plat purchase would likely be able to fit a new player with nearly maxed mods and gear and would remove the respect of the grind and turn a lot of people away from the game once they realized what their farm was worth related to real world money. I'm not even sure I want that, as I've played games with such economies and it can be a very unrewarding. 

 

So while DE perhaps disliked the current nature of trade, I think they fear to change it and perhaps with good reason. Of course we can't be sure the market won't balance back out to roughly the point it is now, and the grind won't be lighter, but is that kind of open market something we are ready to embrace? I'm still on the fence but I don't see DE changing their position any time soon. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

''Trading chat is deceased, rotten to the core. There is no fixing it. We need to pull it out by th roots. Wipe the slate clean. BURN IT DOWN! And from the Ash Primes a new Trading Chat will be born. The spam will be purged, and the strongest will thrive free to trade as they see fare. They will make Trading Chat great again!''

 

Credits:

speech written by...me

speech spoken by Senator Armstong

 

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131228084459/metalgear/images/a/af/ArmstrongPP.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Im not fluent with this game, but most MMOs have a single currency used, while Warframe has several item-item trades.

 

The GE deals with item for currency trades, but RS also re-introduced normal trading along with it for those who want to trade personally or do item for item trades.

 

Selling is just about selecting the item or set, setting a price, then put it in the system and wait. Buying is the opposite, you select what you want, put in how much you want to pay, then wait, depending on supply/demand, it may be instant, or it may take days, but you won't know if it was because of high/low supply, if someone happened to be selling it at that price at that time, or because you put a high/too low price. (Unless you buy a lot, which is what a number of guilds do. But that only works because it uses in-game currency, not money bought currency).

 

The only thing that may be problematic for DE to add is a suggested price. RS probably uses a lot of data to come out with the actual value, WF may be a bit more unclear, but could still work around averages and modes instead.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At least I don't want something like that on warframe, but seems like one of the best and easiest ways to implement an auction house

You dont need a full auction house. Like AzureEmulation and i allready said, they could simply add a listing system where everyone can put up the items they want to buy/sell with a little note what they would like to get in return. Players could search for specific items and wisper players wo want to buy/sell them. You would still need to negotiate and trade for yourself, but you wouldnt be required to sit in trade chat for hours, instead you could have an easier time finding what you are looking for. It would be basically an in game version of the trading post, making it easier to eb accessed. Im not lying, it would cause some prices to drop, but on the other hand it would also increase the number of players attending trades. The trade chat doesnt have much future. Player numbers are constantly increasing and you will reach the point where it gets unuseable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You dont need a full auction house. Like AzureEmulation and i allready said, they could simply add a listing system where everyone can put up the items they want to buy/sell with a little note what they would like to get in return. Players could search for specific items and wisper players wo want to buy/sell them. You would still need to negotiate and trade for yourself, but you wouldnt be required to sit in trade chat for hours, instead you could have an easier time finding what you are looking for. It would be basically an in game version of the trading post, making it easier to eb accessed. Im not lying, it would cause some prices to drop, but on the other hand it would also increase the number of players attending trades. The trade chat doesnt have much future. Player numbers are constantly increasing and you will reach the point where it gets unuseable.

But why make it overly complicated.

 

You go into maroo bazaar, you use console.

If someone put item/plat there with offer attached then you simply click accept, send him the plat/items and get item/plat on mail. 

If someone didnt put price then sure implement option to bother him with negotiations.

 

And price drop theory assumes that there is huge portion of playerbase who isnt trading but would with ah implemented.

Yeah there is such group theyre called new players and they dont have access to high end void drops, primed mods, rare stances and limited availability items which are the only things worth more than 15p atm. Theyre also the group which buys most of this stuff because they dont yet have it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And price drop theory assumes that there is huge portion of playerbase who isnt trading but would with ah implemented.

Yeah there is such group theyre called new players and they dont have access to high end void drops, primed mods, rare stances and limited availability items which are the only things worth more than 15p atm. Theyre also the group which buys most of this stuff because they dont yet have it.

 

Trading sucks so hard in this game that there are undoubtedly many players who ignore trading as much as possible. These players might sell the 50+ platinum drops when they find them, but everything else gets kept in their inventory or turned into ducats. If there was an easy way to sell gear, some number of these players would take advantage of that.

 

I use warframe.market to sell this kind of stuff. There's no way I'm wasting time spamming trade chat with mods that sell for 2-5 platinum, but I can easily sell a dozen of these in a day through the site. If you take that convenience and roll it into the actual game so that everyone knows it exists and can access it super easily, there's just no way it won't massively boost the amount of items that are put up for sale.

 

I see this as a fantastic thing, but there are plenty of people who think the opposite. Typically these are people who equate something changing with something being ruined. There's not much you can do to argue with flawed thinking like that. There are valid arguments against the effects an auction house will have, though. You just have to decide whether the perceived negatives (lower prices, higher availability of items, etc.) are actually negatives to you. I tend to see those perceived negatives as positives.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites