Auction House

[DeMonkey]

Lol jk right, you can already see noobs with primed equipment of them, and it's dirt cheap,   why bother grind for x mod when you can buy it for like 3p  or less, i've seen gold mods sell for 1 platinum  the core is  deflowered a long time ago. 

 

So let's not make it worse, yeah?

[Davoodoo]

That is exactly what would happen if  DE implements a standard Auction House,  that is why we need to  adapt it to warframe, create a unique auction house  that will not  roll over the whole economy. 

 

That is why I said do not change how the players trade now, but put a better way to advertise it an action house  with all the items in game, and wich player is selling it and if he is online to trade, also advertising in the auction house for a limited time,  should cost credits to post it which will make it a credit sink, it's like a trade chat but better, only that trade chat is free this would be not. 

This is already true you know...

 

What do you think prime access is?? update bundles?? hunhow bundle?? even trading.

 

Not only that but de works on increasing grind so you wont ever want to play.

[AhkNemet]

I don't really understand the logic behind an auction house "breaking" the game economy... how exactly does it differ from the trade chat? Instead of game grind, you replace it for chat grind instead (in trade chat).

There is no need to replace or remove the trade channel, just have an AH in addition to. Trade and Auction house both are alive and well in Forsaken World. Grand Exchange in runescape upset the apple cart when it was first implemented sure, but it seems fine now (once they removed the game imposed values).

 

Having an AH wont stop most of us from playing like we always have. Sure you'll get a few people camping the AH.. I think you get that in every game regardless of the transacting method. You will always find someone that capitalizes on the system and there isn't much way to stop that.

 

If you really want to force people to "grind for stuff themselves", then remove all ability to trade. Problem solved.

[Davoodoo]

how exactly does it differ from the trade chat?

It doesnt, auction house is streamlining of trade chat.

[syrusstk]

So let's not make it worse, yeah?

 

Lol still jk ? :)) man your troll every topic with no  real suggestion at all, just like to be that  fly on a ...  just because ... is there, now I understand why you have so many posts.   So what was your feedback  on this  topic? 

 

All in all there is no reason to debate on the action house, we already have a broken trade,  that is working somehow, there are 3rd party options  and way cheaper then the trade chat, DE has already tried to improve the trade system but the attempt was meh.. at beast  same ... different hat. 

[DeMonkey]

Lol still jk ? :)) man your troll every topic with no  real suggestion at all, just like to be that  fly on a ...  just because ... is there, now I understand why you have so many posts.   So what was your feedback  on this  topic? 

 

All in all there is no reason to debate on the action house, we already have a broken trade,  that is working somehow, there are 3rd party options  and way cheaper then the trade chat, DE has already tried to improve the trade system but the attempt was meh.. at beast  same ... different hat. 

 

I don't even know what you're saying, and frankly I don't think you know what you're saying.

 

If you couldn't tell my feedback was ''let's not make it worse than it already is''. I think that was pretty obvious from my post, no?

 

And please stop calling people who disagree with you ''trolls'', it's just childish.

[djternan]

The ONLY kind of auction house I could support is something similar to Runescape's Grand Exchange. Auction houses where you can see individual buyer and seller prices destroy the value of items.

[akira_him]

No auctions, but marketplace like PSO2

Edited January 12, 2016 by akira_him

[CircleMage]

Everyone seems to talk about an auction house in the traditional style seen in games such as WoW. What about an auction house more like a real world one where everything is not always available all the time and where there isn't visibility into the desired price.

 

Have there be a plat tax (to remove plat from the system as needed to ensure new plat gets bought for DE).

 

Have players put forth a limited number of items with a minimum sell price to the auction house (a traditional reserve price).

 

Have an auction house that cycles through the current active item being sold (maybe one auction house per type of item such as one for mods and one for frames and one for resources etc). The item is only up for lets say 5 minutes. During that time people can bid without seeing the desired price put forth by the sellers. Maybe the bidders can see the price of all other bidders, maybe only the top bidder. Maybe they can see the total number of bidders or maybe not depending on the best way to balance the amount of information the bidders should have. Then at the end of the 5 minutes the top X number of bids get the top x number of items being sold but only if they exceed the not visible reserve price set by the seller ahead of time.

 

This allows for automation without having a system where prices can be seen ahead of time. Every item is not always available instantly and direct trading could still be used to compete with this for that very reason.

 

If only the high bids are seen it should keep prices visibly high and as long as the auction house trade limit is low enough plus a higher credit tax for sellers (as you are paying for the automation) the market shouldn't be too flooded.

[Davoodoo]

Have there be a plat tax (to remove plat from the system as needed to ensure new plat gets bought for DE).

At this point i would call it gambling.

 

You are putting item + plat in hope that someone will pay as much plat as you want. You can go around that by setting no minimum price but then you risk item being sold under its value.

 

 

 

Also for everyone saying that auction house means plummeting of prices let me show you wow. Screenshots done about 5 minutes before posting.

http://imgur.com/97U25ao

Thats how much blizzard thinks your 20euro is worth.

http://imgur.com/ArOze3o

Completely useless weapons below ilvl of anything that is played, you get better ones by afking in lfr or by doing solo content.

http://imgur.com/py4CEhk

Example enchant, pretty much mandatory stuff if youre planning to raid. You need 1 for each weapon, 2 for rings, 1 for neck, 1 for cloak.

http://imgur.com/py4CEhk

Pots increasing exp gained, 1,3 euro per 15 minutes of extra exp...

http://imgur.com/p7flI74

Event mount, limited time exclusive.

http://imgur.com/imz1EdN

Pointless pet for side activity.

http://imgur.com/o3eeDjj

Catchup item for high end pvp, you need multiple of them.

http://imgur.com/econ4dy

Good items.

http://imgur.com/7k64iit

Pointless crap, thats how many herbs ive gotten without even farming them and vials are vendor bought. I can still make bank by selling them in bunk.

 

How hard is to make 60k gold by playing the game?? Im soloing old cataclysm raids on 3 alts every week(15 runs every week with about 40mins per run) and it yields me about 70k per month and then theres whatever i get from garrison, about extra 20k per month. Its not at any point most efficient way, most efficient way is to play ah, but ah obviously plummets prices says warframe community.

 

So if your prime fodder drops to absolute crappy low prices like mana pots its only because theres too much of it on market.

Edited January 12, 2016 by Davoodoo

[SonicSonedit]

"The in-game gold and real money auction houses’ main sin was that they made gameplay itself borderline useless. To truly get the best results for your character, you shouldn’t be killing monsters and slaying bosses for gear, you should be pouring over spreadsheets and scanning pages for rogue low prices on good items."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2014/03/18/diablo-3-finally-exorcises-its-demon-the-auction-house/

 

"It became increasingly clear that despite the benefits of the Auction House system and the fact that many players around the world use it, it ultimately undermines Diablo's core gameplay: kill monsters to get cool loot," explained Diablo 3's upcoming Reaper of Souls expansion production director John Hight.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-03-18-diablo-3s-controversial-auction-house-finally-goes-offline

 

"We firmly believe that by shutting down the real money and the gold auction houses, it really paves the way to make sure that killing monsters in game is the most rewarding, the most satisfying, the most compelling way of getting your hands on those items," D3 game director Josh Mosqueira

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Diablo-3-Real-Money-Gold-Auction-Houses-Shut-Down-62861.html

 

Just saying.

 

Reminds me of something else <cough>market<cough>

That's funny how people cling to D3 example when there is a huge load of succesfull auction house examples.

These excuses from Blizzard empoyees are pathetic and ridiculous. They try to cling to any baseless argument to say "hey it's not us - it's auction house's fault! We removed it from the game because it's bad for the game, not because we failed horribly at implementing it!".

You know why D3 auction house failed? Because pre-expansion Diablo 3 was, in fact, a poorly made game which Blizzard tried to center around RMT (real money trading) instead of in-game economy. And this didn't work.

Now look at other MMORPGs, which use in-game currency mixed with premium currency - and oh god - it works perfectly for like 20 years now.

World of Warcraft

Lineage

Runescape

Eve Online

Archeage

Guild Wars

The list can go on and on. Did any of these games remove auction "because it's bad!" ? No.

Edited January 12, 2016 by SonicSonedit

[alexmach1]

Any form of market will easily work just fine if we were rewarded well for our efforts, as there'd be no incentive to game the market for high-level content if we were given high-level content for doing high-level things.

 

But in Warframe you can spend 120 minutes in t4 survival and get nothing but keys and forma blueprints. You can spend over a year trying to get a single weapon and never see a single part drop. You can run a mission over and over and over and never get the thing you want because your time simply isn't worth anything at all whereas plat actually is worth something. People trying to use the market as a crutch for farming isn't the fault of the market, it's the fact that farming is highly unreliable and just isn't nearly worth what trading offers in its current form.

Edited January 12, 2016 by alexmach1

[Davoodoo]

-snip-

Actually in post just above yours i presented how wow ah works and ill punctuate WORKS.

 

And tbh, i can believe blizzard devs on failure of ah in d3.

I myself remember that it was simply easier to grind gold and buy items than grind items themselves. 

 

Was the whole game crippled to make place for rmt?? yes ofc it was. Activision had hand in d3 production and oh god they #*($%%@ up many things. Also as a side note, it was activision servers during error 37.

However game being crippled by rmt doesnt mean that these devs didnt have a point with their claims.

Edited January 12, 2016 by Davoodoo

[syrusstk]

 

-snip-

If you couldn't tell my feedback was ''let's not make it worse than it already is''. I think that was pretty obvious from my post, no?

-snip-

 

Man you are so deep in your bs  that not even  you believe it. How much broken can it get ?  Do you play  any other game with Auction House implemented,  did you even play D3  to actually see why it  failed?  just tell me  how worse can it get, you can't because you have no idea  what you are talking about, so just commenting just to be commenting.

 

Let me tell you how worse is right now:   Assuming I will buy the 370 platinum pack  ( with discount you can get it as low as 5$ ) + 50 free plat from new account  = 420p

 

What can you buy and use with 420p at only MR2 :

 

 

And mods are dirt cheap just some random:

 

Intensify 2p , redirection 1p,  Streamline 2p, energy siphon - 5p, serretion 2p, split chamber 3p,  Animal instinct 3p, guardian 2p, and the list is long

 

All you need is to find  the best build for that weapon/frame and then you go shopping.

 

With 5$ ( -75% discount)   you can get a lot of endgame content why even bother with the grind.

 

The only difference with an auction house is that you have an auction house, as the prices will be still be the same for the rare parts, and prices will lower on  junk parts, but they are already 1p  how low can they go. 

 

 

 

Edited January 12, 2016 by syrusstk

[SonicSonedit]

However game being crippled by rmt doesnt mean that these devs didnt have a point with their claims.

There is a difference making a point about something and using a baloon arguments to cover yourself after you screw up.

These arguments would never pop up if they did things right.

One more thing - RMT and premium currency trading are very different things. With premium currency trading it's isolated economy system which is only tied to in-game enviroment, in case of RMT it's tied to real life market and economy.

[WolfTitan]

With enough cash at hand, players could accelerate their progression through the game. But would they be as expert as those who go for the long haul to earn high level stuff?

Absolutely not. This is probably why I've met MR 20s who are clueless in ODD.

This is why we should limit trading to the chat and do nothing more to enhance the trading experience.

[kleerr2]

I don't really understand the logic behind an auction house "breaking" the game economy... how exactly does it differ from the trade chat?

 

It differs because, in an AH/ Market, De can put all kinds of limits in the trade between players, such as: a bottom line per sellable content, as in: De can make trash stuff that drops in void sell for no less than say 10p, or Neza parts sellable for no less than 20p(in Market). That along with the FACT that old players won't be able to scam off the newer playerbase(who most likely do not know the price of items they want to sell), since the newbies will have a perfect idea how much to sell an item for, due to the price listings of other players that are easily accessible, and since it won't be a verbal trade arangement between players, the scammers don't even have a chance to rip off the clueless. Since the majority of people in tradechat are scamers/ abusers(you know this is true, right?,) they don't want De to take away their plat stealing methods...

[syrusstk]

Since the majority of people in tradechat are scamers/ abusers(you know this is true, right?,) they don't want De to take away their plat stealing methods...

 

They are the main opposition on forums, I prefer to use for buying and selling 3rd party sites  like warframe market, because  trade chat  is an overpriced place with a  lot of scammers,  tried once to sell a nezha system for 40p  someone PM-ed me to stop selling at that price  because it sell for 70p, not the first time  being contacted via PM to raise the price,  that is a monopoly, who are you exactly to dictate my prices ?

[dmirtygorachyov]

I think it would be pretty good if it remained in spirit with trade chat balance. Something like, the open trade can only last for 30mins to an 1hr before it expires, and you could only have about 10 trades open at any time. I haven't played too many MMOs with auction houses aside from D3, but I'm pretty sure it could work as long as it doesn't provide too much of a barrier to new players. I will miss the massive spreads of trade chat though.

[kleerr2]

They are the main opposition on forums, I prefer to use for buying and selling 3rd party sites  like warframe market, because  trade chat  is an overpriced place with a  lot of scammers

 

But not everyone knows about those sites( WFMarket/ WFTrading), especially new players. The fact that the ingame trading buyer and seller can negotiate an item's price verbaly means that one of them can potentually trick/ scam/ maliciously exploit the other... You know something is wrong when a game's trade system forces players to seek out 3rd party sites to trade in...

 

tried once to sell a nezha system for 40p  someone PM-ed me to stop selling at that price  because it sell for 70p, not the first time  being contacted via PM to raise the price,  that is a monopoly, who are you exactly to dictate my prices ?

 

He was afraid that other people that also have the systems might try to sell it at a lower price than you, which in theory could lead to progresive price lowering to sell the item faster, to the point where the item's price could drop very low, and maybe even become a constant item price, and since the current bottom line price of items is 1p(its actually 0p, but that is considered ''Free'' so...).

- - - - -

In the current ''Trade'' system as more and more time passes and more prople get NeZha parts(and sellable items in general), the more its price will plumet because there will be an abundance of said item(basically alot more supply than demand). Ironicaly the scamers that diss the AH/ Marketplace(which can be limited in so many ways...) idea seem to think the opposite, they seem to think that its infact the AH/ Marketplace that will lower prices more than the current system. Which is laughable since the current system's lowest price of an item is 1p...

[CircleMage]

At this point i would call it gambling.

 

You are putting item + plat in hope that someone will pay as much plat as you want. You can go around that by setting no minimum price but then you risk item being sold under its value.

 

 

The point of the plat tax was for successful sales. Have the fee to post an item just be credits but a tax on all successful sales for a set % or amount so any successful use of the AH removes plat from the system.

 

You are right that some people will set their prices low. But if there are enough buyers they still have a reasonable chance of getting a fair amount if the buyers can see how high/number of bids being made.

Edited January 12, 2016 by CircleMage

[SickoSike]

They are the main opposition on forums, I prefer to use for buying and selling 3rd party sites  like warframe market, because  trade chat  is an overpriced place with a  lot of scammers,  tried once to sell a nezha system for 40p  someone PM-ed me to stop selling at that price  because it sell for 70p, not the first time  being contacted via PM to raise the price,  that is a monopoly, who are you exactly to dictate my prices ?

 

I've never seen anyone complain about getting more value for themselves for the work they put in to be rewarded with something nice as a Nezha systems and complain about how others are trying to explain to you that the item you have is far more valuable than what you're trying to sell.

Supply and Demand baby. You should be giving that guy a thanks and move on with your day on extra plat, if you rather not listen to any tips players give you and appreciate being undervalued by others so be it.

[Phatose]

It's not necessarily terrible for the economy if done correctly - so that both buyers and sellers have to compete, efficiently.  One sided markets where the seller lists a price, buyers search and buy shield buyers from competition - systematic bias, which shouldn't exists in a fair market.

 

Genuine auctions prevent that, but make buying one item from identical listings complicated.

 

Probably a way to make it require competition on both sides without being clunky, but I'm not sure what that way is.

[syrusstk]

I've never seen anyone complain about getting more value for themselves for the work they put in to be rewarded with something nice as a Nezha systems and complain about how others are trying to explain to you that the item you have is far more valuable than what you're trying to sell.

Supply and Demand baby. You should be giving that guy a thanks and move on with your day on extra plat, if you rather not listen to any tips players give you and appreciate being undervalued by others so be it.

 

LoL, Tips really, that price ( 70p) was and still is overpriced, considering  the supply and demand, he was not doing me a favor, he was trying to force a price on me, just so he can   trick others to buy his overpriced crap, also was calling everyone else idiots for selling so low :)), why call other players idiots when  there are too many  and nobody  wants it. 

 

Also my price of 40 was actually because of this  [ print screens taken at the moment of replay]: 

 

Edited January 12, 2016 by syrusstk

[SickoSike]

 

LoL, Tips really, that price ( 70p) was and still is overpriced, considering  the supply and demand, he was not doing me a favor, he was trying to force a price on me, just so he can   trick others to buy his overpriced crap, also was calling everyone else idiots for selling so low :)), why call other players idiots when  there are too many  and nobody  wants it. 

 

Also my price of 40 was actually because of this  [ print screens taken at the moment of replay]: 

 

 

Interesting, well I haven't been too keen on 3rd party websites with players competing with one another over the price of the Nezha system.

I was however aware that the system is the rarest drop you could get from the sorties and you were able to sell it upwards of 90p the first few days. I guess the price plummeted however, say someone has a lot of platinum buys all those up, you sure can have a monopoly on the systems if or when that happens. It's daily in trade chat.

All the more reasons why we need start focusing on making trade a better experience for everyone.