Auction House

[Guest]

All these replies about warframe economy crashing is pure nonsense coming from people I 100% sure never once been in an economics class or even any business class. Non of these trash points they made actually point out the problem of having auction house, nor they have 0.1% logic in their statements. Pure angry rants.

 

The ONLY problem for why Warframe does not have an Auction House has NOTHING to do with the Warframe economy, it's all about it will destroy DE. You have to look at the surplus of plat in the game. Why do you think they have to limited trade per day even with the current terribly inconvenient trade chat system? It limits the plat from flowing around the market like fluid, so there are players actually buying plat.

Look at the stand point of a new player, if you have an auction house in this game, all that new player would have to do is rank up the starter weapons, obtain a void key from starter planets and went into the void for easy capture missions or exterminate missions to get a prime part. Once they obtain that prime part, they can proceed to the auction house and auction it for plat. There will be no incentive for new players to cash in for plat, they can just walk into the void and easily auction off those prime parts with ease and start earning plat, good for them devastating for DE. How many surface prime parts do you have in the game? What do you think the whole point of Baro Ki Tieer was? Giving you good stuffs? NO! He's here to control the surface of prime parts so there aren't overly surplus of prime parts thus keeping the prime parts value up, keeping plat's value in place. Do we have that system for mods? No, take the Rage mod for example, I'm closing in 900 hours in-game, I never once got a rage mod from the drop table, but how much the rage mod cost on the market? 5? 10? 15 at max. But why didn't that happen to prime parts? Baro Ki Tieer. He's the reason.  

We already under a state where there are too much plat in the game than players need, you get plat from discounts, you get plat for prime access, there are just too many plat in the game right now. What would happen if they allow an auction house for free trade without any further restrictions they current posting on trade is that, mods and prime parts flushes the market, more people will get the prime parts they want for a cheaper price. New players get the hands on mods and parts with cheap plat, and they can earn a little plat through low-tier void slowly. But in time, there will be a point where plat is so overflow in the economy which new players no longer have incentives to buy plat. And those well off older players like myself doesn't need anymore plat of course wouldn't buy plat. Which leaves DE to profit only from Prime Access or mostly from Prime Access, and I suspect they already benefiting more from Prime Access than actual selling plat. Which is bad, because Prime Access is flushing more plat in the game. That's like kept printing money even the market has too much money.

Either way, they started a very dangerous game from the beginning for allowing trade for plat, it's a very hard to control economy once they allow plat trade, if they really want to make an auction house, they need something as effective as Baro to consume the plat in the market, and let actual experienced business people to control what content to put in without taxing their PR department too much pressure and keeping us happy. And overall as I stated in the other thread "This game popularity" about their managing overall, I can't  say for sure if they are genius or idiots to put most of their efforts to keep players instead of growing and getting new players. But I think if they can afford more experienced finance managers into managing an auction house would overall improves everyone's well being in the game and they can make more money from people buying plat in the process. 

So if you want a short and simple answer to why Warframe does not have an auction house yet, it's because it's either a home run or the end of the game. It's all about the execution, there aren't many examples they can look at, gamepoints trading usually are banned from most games. Thus there are limited examples they can learn from and every step is critical for the company to survive. For those of you who know any game allows gamepoint trading and grow from it, suggest it to DE, it's way better than arguing in General D, DE knows the quality of the posts here. Or if you have a finance background or have any well rounded 360 degree plan that aim directly to this problem, go suggest it to DE, or even ask DE if they want to hire you. I think DE more than anyone else want to eliminate trade chat, it's uncivilized and barbaric for a 2012 game to have such incontinent trade system which is worst than pre 2000 games, but they have to, they are stuck with it. I would truly thank you for being constructive for the game and write a new page of history in this field. 

 

And for those idiotic people that kept on calling price will go up and there will be illuminate formed, go get a degree before you make those idiotic bold claims, those comments are like cancer. Stop taking other MMOs like WoW and compare it with Warframe, completely different economy.

[----Fenrir----]

22 minutes ago, Valteria. said:

And for those idiotic people that kept on calling price will go up and there will be illuminate formed, go get a degree before you make those idiotic bold claims

I do not believe that finishing elementary school counts as having a degree in economics. But I'll try to make it very simple for you.

Currently trading in Warframe is very much like grinding for stuff, it takes time and effort to get anywhere. And people who do not want to invest the time and effort can, similar to how it works with pretty much everything else in the game, take the shortcut by buying plat.

Do you start to see the problem? Trading has to take time and effort or almost no one would buy plat anymore. It's the same with getting new warframes, it has to take a certain amount of time or effort or no one would ever buy them from the market.

You can't have effortless easy trading with the current drop rates. Everyone would start selling their stuff and prices would plumped to almost nothing. The way other games usually work around that problem is by having extremely low drop rates on rare stuff so to not over-saturate the market.

Do you really believe having an auction house would be worth having 0. something drop chances for most items? You know like in Diablo 3 when it first came out and farming gear was basically impossible so people had to farm gold and buy gear from the auction house?

Edited April 3, 2016 by ----Fenrir----

[letir]

Just now, Valteria. said:

We already under a state where there are too much plat in the game than players need, you get plat from discounts, you get plat for prime access, there are just too many plat in the game right now. What would happen if they allow an auction house for free trade without any further restrictions they current posting on trade is that, mods and prime parts flushes the market, more people will get the prime parts they want for a cheaper price. New players get the hands on mods and parts with cheap plat, and they can earn a little plat through low-tier void slowly. But in time, there will be a point where plat is so overflow in the economy which new players no longer have incentives to buy plat. And those well off older players like myself doesn't need anymore plat of course wouldn't buy plat. Which leaves DE to profit only from Prime Access or mostly from Prime Access, and I suspect they already benefiting more from Prime Access than actual selling plat. Which is bad, because Prime Access is flushing more plat in the game. That's like kept printing money even the market has too much money.

All platinum coming on market from DE. There isn't any source of plat inside the game. If player get plat from market, it means that someone buy that plat from DE.

 

You saing, that newbies will get plat from low-tier gear, which they can easely farm and sell. But who will buy this low-tear gear, if any new player can easely farm it? That's right, nobody. Especially not these players like "yourself", who don't have a way to spend plat.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, ----Fenrir---- said:

I do not believe that finishing elementary school counts as having a degree in economics. But I'll try to make it very simple for you.

Currently trading in Warframe is very much like grinding for stuff, it takes time and effort to get anywhere. And people who do not want to invest the time and effort can, similar to how it works with pretty much everything else in the game, take the shortcut by buying plat.

Do you start to see the problem? Trading has to take time and effort or almost no one would buy plat anymore. It's the same with getting new warframes, it has to take a certain amount of time or effort or no one would ever buy them from the market.

You can't have effortless easy trading with the current drop rates. Everyone would start selling their stuff and prices would plumped to almost nothing. The way other games usually work around that problem is by having extremely low drop rates on rare stuff so to not over-saturate the market.

Do you really believe having an auction house would be worth having 0. something drop chances for most items? You know like in Diablo 3 when it first came out and farming gear was basically impossible so people had to farm gold and buy gear from the auction house?

Clearly you have not read anything from what I said. There is a reason for Baro Ki Tieer being there, and I have clearly mentioned, the overflowing of plat is a problem and they need something as effective as Baro to control the the overflowing plat, and that new system must be controlled by a experienced finance expert. It's a home run or a sudden dead if the execution wasn't right.

3 minutes ago, letir said:

All platinum coming on market from DE. There isn't any source of plat inside the game. If player get plat from market, it means that someone buy that plat from DE.

 

You saing, that newbies will get plat from low-tier gear, which they can easely farm and sell. But who will buy this low-tear gear, if any new player can easely farm it? That's right, nobody. Especially not these players like "yourself", who don't have a way to spend plat.

You are assuming people run every type of low tier missions just for fun. There things in lower tier and players have not obtained and they want them but don't want to spend time to grind in a T1D or a T1E or even a T1Sab, of course it's not going to be a very high priced part for the new player to sell due to others are competing, but there will be a profit can be made.  And that is also why I said they need something as effective as Baro that's managed by a finance expert, to keep the plat value up, making sure those parts will somewhat remain roughly at 5p or 10p per unit.

But of course, the main goal is about giving new players and veteran players incentives to buy plat, creating that feeling that you have a need to buy plat because you either invest a ton of time to grind parts and sell them for plat and use that plat for the new system or you just buy plat to directly to use that new system. 

But I would tell you this, nothing will be perfect. Under this system, new players aren't the one benefiting the most, they will struggle to compete with veterans, but what's the problem with that? You progress and you have a easier time to play the game, you wouldn't expect a new player start off with a better competitive advantage than you. More incentives to progress.

Salute to Capitalism.

[letir]

Just now, Valteria. said:

You are assuming people run every type of low tier missions just for fun. There things in lower tier and players have not obtained and they want them but don't want to spend time to grind in a T1D or a T1E or even a T1Sab, of course it's not going to be a very high priced part for the new player to sell due to others are competing, but there will be a profit can be made.  And that is also why I said they need something as effective as Baro that's managed by a finance expert, to keep the plat value up, making sure those parts will somewhat remain roughly at 5p or 10p per unit.

But of course, the main goal is about giving new players and veteran players incentives to buy plat, creating that feeling that you have a need to buy plat because you either invest a ton of time to grind parts and sell them for plat and use that plat for the new system or you just buy plat to directly to use that new system. 

But I would tell you this, nothing will be perfect. Under this system, new players aren't the one benefiting the most, they will struggle to compete with veterans, but what's the problem with that? You progress and you have a easier time to play the game, you wouldn't expect a new player start off with a better competitive advantage than you. More incentives to progress.

Salute to Capitalism.

New players dosen't have tons of keys and sh**loads of patience to farm something worthwhile. It's disaapointing for me to burn through 15 T2 Capture just to find needed Volt Prime BP. It's completly unaccepteable for a new player - he don't have so much keys, and, probably patience to make living on that.

 

So yeas, i'm understand who will benefitting most - people with big amount of keys, who can keyshare and have time for active grinding. Why should it bother me or any other casual player, who want to buy something without big problems? With better service (and AH is much better than trade chat) any player will get more iniciative to go into trading and buy plat for this trading.

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, letir said:

New players dosen't have tons of keys and sh**loads of patience to farm something worthwhile. It's disaapointing for me to burn through 15 T2 Capture just to find needed Volt Prime BP. It's completly unaccepteable for a new player - he don't have so much keys, and, probably patience to make living on that.

 

So yeas, i'm understand who will benefitting most - people with big amount of keys, who can keyshare and have time for active grinding. Why should it bother me or any other casual player, who want to buy something without big problems? With better service (and AH is much better than trade chat) any player will get more iniciative to go into trading and buy plat for this trading.

Don't be so sure about the patience part tho, it really depends. I watched this new player dreaming for the Dragon Nikana so bad, that he came back from work after 5pm and start grinding himself all the way til he get a shower and go to bed. 

And the key part, I'm in the middle. I can't decide. I personally when I start like a few months ago, I have way too much void keys than I should. I played a lot of spies, excavation, survs and defenses. They give generous amount of void keys. Earth in particular I earned the most, Earth DS Excavation yield me a lot of void keys. I needed neuros and Earth DS Exac also yields other goods so I'm kinda rich in void keys in that sense. However I do see the stand point of you of a more cause player that isn't as passion as I was in getting myself progressed everyday. So I do see your point.

I guess my best answer would be Capitalism. You get more when you work for it I guess. 

Edited April 3, 2016 by Guest

[letir]

Just now, Valteria. said:

I guess my best answer would be Capitalism. You get more when you work for it I guess. 

Main point of trading in Grindframe is: "I want to get this thing now without work (grind)".

When trading process is hard as grinding process, it's kinda kill the point.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, letir said:

Main point of trading in Grindframe is: "I want to get this thing now without work (grind)".

When trading process is hard as grinding process, it's kinda kill the point.

For me personally it's worst than the grinding process. 

If you grinding at least you are playing, trade chat you are watch and waiting.

usually I do them both at the same time that is before I walk in the mission I post on trade chat and walk in the mission.

But still sometimes it wonders me how many people had seen what I said besides those trade chat hunters. The chat is going so fast that it's just bad for business overall.

[BuckleBunny]

4 hours ago, ----Fenrir---- said:

Your logic is quiet questionable. Trading does not generate money for DE. Buying stuff with plat you bought does. Earning plat by selling does not make DE any money so making it easier is clearly not in DE's financial interest.

And buying stuff is already very easy. Since there are always far more seller than buyer in the trade channel. Many people not trading, aka selling their spare stuff to get plat is actually good for DE.

Huh? DE makes a lot of money through plat trading, Where do you think the plat is coming from? A lot of people buy plat specifically to get things like prime parts. Doesn't matter how much you /think/ trading right now is easy. More trading = more plat bought for prime gear. Unless I'm misinterpreting something, giving people easier ways to spend plat through an auction house would not mean 0 profit for DE.

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

5 hours ago, ----Fenrir---- said:

Your logic is quiet questionable. Trading does not generate money for DE. Buying stuff with plat you bought does. Earning plat by selling does not make DE any money so making it easier is clearly not in DE's financial interest.

And buying stuff is already very easy. Since there are always far more seller than buyer in the trade channel. Many people not trading, aka selling their spare stuff to get plat is actually good for DE.

Well, actually new people buying stuff like buzzkill for 2000p from prime access and then buying more plat does generate money. Basically trading of overpriced stuff. It absolutely generates money. Ideally seller then wastes all plat in market. That part is lacking, but they are working on it with expensive skins etc.

[DxAdder]

The more that people realize the can use something like warframe.market and pay 25-50% LESS than the trade channel and the connivance it offers the trade channel will die on its own.

 

[paragasu]

17 hours ago, letir said:

And why exactly Warframe aren't suitable?

in warframe you ain't selling multiple purpose resources, you are selling a single use assets, also the problem of the actual supply far exceed the actual demand

[letir]

2 hours ago, paragasu said:

in warframe you ain't selling multiple purpose resources, you are selling a single use assets, also the problem of the actual supply far exceed the actual demand

Well, in many games main source of trade is a single use assets (rare gear and such). Second is not even a problem - if supply exceed demand, then all unneded supply will stay in player's hand and be reused in game.

[DevilServant]

DE can easy set minimum AH price for every item so you cant sell item below min price. 

And DE can set up trade tax (plat) from AH so some plat will go back to DE. 

[Currilicious]

So the argument against an auction house is to prevent common items being valued below the basement. Yeah I'm sure all the common prime parts are useless.

Oh wait there is Baro and Ducats. We don't have "enterprising" folks buying up "prime junk" at 1p each now, do we?

Equilibrium. Every market eventually reaches it if allowed to, without external influences. Barriers to trading opportunities is such an influence. IE: trade chat.

With the current entry barrier, a new player either gets conned out of a rare item or gets gorged out of plats. So where are the "bleeding hearts" for the new players?

 

 

Edited April 4, 2016 by Currilicious

[Andaius]

Don't need a auction house, just need to expand the tenno market more. Like getting bulletin boards for sellers and buys to post up what they are buying/selling so you don't have to wade into the scroll bar to find what you want. With only actively online people being able to post you can then more easily find what you need and contact the person for trade without scanning chat.

[Deidaku]

Auction house or not

I think we can ALL agree that sitting in the liset and spamming WTS/WTB all day is annoying AF

We at least need to remove that aspect from trading. It's really a pain. When it first came out it was fine. BUt now the game has grown and so has the playerbase. 

This system is obsolete and has to be reworked like the frames weapons, parkour etc. I

[Andaius]

I think it will get better once more people use the Tenno Bazaar relay.

[Ziegrif]

14 minutes ago, Andaius said:

I think it will get better once more people use the Tenno Bazaar relay.

Last time I wandered in there it was a ghost town.

I'm assuming Clanless people go there to trade after they've negotiated it through trade chat and PMs.

Edited April 4, 2016 by Ziegrif

[Andaius]

yeah right now, it very time based, and not a ton of people use it. but once more people do it's way easier to keep track of whats going on then keeping up with a fast chat. You just have to walk in and look at the Marque's above the guys with there hands up. to see what they are offering. You then walk up and hit X to start a trade session with them.

Edited April 4, 2016 by Andaius

[Currilicious]

The problem with the relay is essentially the lock down of your game time. You cannot play while you have a shop setup.

An auction house does not necessarily need to facilitate the item exchange as well. You can have the warframe.market like listing in game. Only catch is you need to be online to do your postings. The interested party will still need to message you and do the trade like we do now. Once you go offline for an amount of time, your postings are removed.

Yes, I realize you can post on items you do not have. But the current WTS/WTB has the same drawback. The major difference is you are not sitting in the Liset watching the text go up like an end-of-movie credits roll or parked at a relay like a hotdog stand.

One thing to keep in mind about trading hubs or relays, it will be a system performance nightmare for Warframe. It happens even with games using low detail graphical assets as the sheer amount of active models overwhelms anything but the best machines. This will be even more unbearable with the level of customization and detail we have with appearance.

 

[paragasu]

2 hours ago, letir said:

Well, in many games main source of trade is a single use assets (rare gear and such). Second is not even a problem - if supply exceed demand, then all unneded supply will stay in player's hand and be reused in game.

and there is that another problem, the rare gear in this game is not on the level of "rare gear"of the other games, to put it simpler, rare gear in warframe is not even rare

[letir]

43 minutes ago, paragasu said:

and there is that another problem, the rare gear in this game is not on the level of "rare gear"of the other games, to put it simpler, rare gear in warframe is not even rare

With 0,02% droprate for some Rare mods? For few RNG layers (get right key, get right item) on every Void item, when some of them have abysmall droprates?

[Amphytrion]

On 06/12/2015 at 10:10 AM, Ashafa said:

I dont agree mate, i played countless amount of games with AH including WoW, and i never felt like i been paying some crazy price...it is even sometimes fun to mess around with the AH as an extra mini game.

The only reason i can think of to not do it is because it will be easier for people to get plat's without paying real money, but i am sure DE can counter that in some way so both they and we will gain from it.

Mess around with AH yes...start by filling up the market make yourself some coin and soon enough someone with great capital will be the "owner" of it..specially on those occasion when baro pops around and some people need junk items ya know...

WoW was the most boring thing of all time to play with...its not even an example...every week when servers go down people would be selling stuff lower than usual and those with gold (like i did) would be buying the whole thing out and selling it double...or catching those bots always cutting for one gold...was fun posting one stack of random mat for 2 g and bot number 1 comes and posts 50 for 1g...profit...

 

with all that said....AH is a BAD idea (and im talking as one that would "exploit" it....)

[paragasu]

19 hours ago, letir said:

With 0,02% droprate for some Rare mods? For few RNG layers (get right key, get right item) on every Void item, when some of them have abysmall droprates?

0.02%? hmmm...not really more like 55%, since they are no harder to get than typical dungeon boss loot in other mmorpg, the only true rare mod is "prime chamber" while the other are just second tier rarity slapped with rare lable

Edited April 5, 2016 by paragasu