To nerf or not to nerf

[neKroMancer]

Right now, slash dash is extremely powerful 1st power. It's capable of instantly killing group of mooks with only 25 energy. Probably the best bargain in the game, instant travel and killing power in one package.

Balancing slash dash should be done in a way that does not take away the core concept of power, Instant kill mooks and fast travel. I think limiting number of mook that slash dash could kill per use is probably better option (killing 10 enemies with 25 energy seems like a bit too convenience, don't you think?). The cap goes up with higher level of slash dash. Lv1 might be able to kill 2 enemies while Lv3 might be able to kill 5-6 enemies at once. The rest that got caught on Excalibur's path got staggered/stunned.

Volt is problematic. We have first skill that has limited use ( shock usually refuse to jump to second target, even shield lancer can deflect it sometime ) and overpower overload which is able to clear an entire room instantly ( light sources is the main culprit ). Shock should see more use. Lower the damage and make it reliably jump to 2-3 targets. Overload still relies on light source to deal extra damage. The current tile set makes multiply its power - I'm not entirely sure that which direction we should take to control it's power.

[MJ12]

The problem with everyone insisting that things should be nerfed instead of buffed because it's easier to balance is that you're not balancing across one dimension.

This isn't a game where characters only have powers.

You also need to balance around the fact that characters have guns. The unupgraded Braton puts out 225 dps, with instant hit capability, rapid fire, and very little overkill. It levels up quite quickly. With just one Damage and one Rate upgrade it's putting out 280 DPS.

Powers should be balanced around this very critical fact, because as it stands with low energy maximum, powers costing a lot of energy, Ultimates being worth only 4 casts of power 1, and guns being as powerful as they are most powers are worthless.

So the question isn't "do we nerf Slash Dash and Charge or buff every other power?", the question is "do we nerf Slash Dash, Charge, and literally every gun in the game or buff every other power?"

Of course, if we had a regenerating energy system or individual power cooldowns and some serious adjustments to power costs, you might be able to get away with only slight buffs to weaker powers and greatly decreasing Slash Dash's effectiveness to make it hit only 1 enemy for full damage and a handful more for less.

[CyberJellos]

buffing everything would make the enemies too weak in comparason and gameplay would be all about who can kill the most enemies before the mission ends (it would just be a race) instead of working with your team to complete objectives.

[Ferriwind]

Well, they could just as easily add aggro to Overload, and sniper mobs that actually do damage. With a less rectangular map or camp places for these mobs, Volts would be scared to Overload randomly, but they wouldn't get a nerf to their ultimate really. For slash dash, add faster mobs that flash jump when you get within a certain distance of them or damage them. That way slash dashes would affect the slower mobs but make excal vunerable to fast counter-attacks(after the ninja mobs flash jump, they would immediately attack the closest enemy and do significant damage). It would also make snipers or burstons more viable in teams to take out ninja mobs quickly.

If these monsters are made and added to some challenge mission, we could test it and players could choose to get owned by new mobs xd.

[MJ12]

buffing everything would make the enemies too weak in comparason and gameplay would be all about who can kill the most enemies before the mission ends (it would just be a race) instead of working with your team to complete objectives.

Helloooo, guns? I'm pointing this out again because people don't seem to be remembering that it's all well and good for powers to be weaksauce if guns are too. Do you really want the Braton Mk1 to be the measuring stick of the gun you're going into Pluto with?

[Volt_Cruelerz]

And for Volt's make it to where it does double current damage to robotics like Jackal. But halves damage to organics. (So basically half damage to soldiers but double to robots and some boss.) Only problem is this might make it underpower due to the fact that only half the units in 1 of 3 factions are robotic and he is left very open during the ability

Ancients are already immune to it :(

[Dexter96]

I've heard that volt is overpowered but I've never heard anything about Excalibur's 1st.

Excalibur 1st needs aiming and the power consumcion(<-- I know it's wrong) and the fact that you can't control where you are going if you have already activated it make it pretty fair for other players.

[Lers]

I've heard that volt is overpowered but I've never heard anything about Excalibur's 1st.

Excalibur 1st needs aiming and the power consumcion(<-- I know it's wrong) and the fact that you can't control where you are going if you have already activated it make it pretty fair for other players.

Very high damage to a potentially unlimited number of trash and elite mobs alike, in an aoe dash for the cost of 1/4 an "ultimate" skill? Sure, it requires aiming and some skill but still MUCH more bang for your bucks than any other frame has.

Edited January 24, 2013 by Lers

[Dexter96]

Very high damage to a potentially unlimited number of trash and elite mobs alike, in an aoe dash for the cost of 1/4 an "ultimate" skill? Sure, it requires aiming and some skill but still MUCH more bang for your bucks than any other frame has.

Yes but if you consider that 2 of his abilities are non-damaging you can easily see that his overall damage output is as much (if not less) than other warframes (aka rhino, volt, ember etc).

[Lers]

Yes but if you consider that 2 of his abilities are non-damaging you can easily see that his overall damage output is as much (if not less) than other warframes (aka rhino, volt, ember etc).

Ember aside, the other two frames also only have two direct damage skills... and Volt's 1 is handicapped at best with low damage and buggy arcing (for the moment). I am not trying to imply that they're UP or balanced. What i'm trying to say is that with some skill, you can get much more dmg/energy spent out of Ex's 1.

Edited January 24, 2013 by Lers

[P3rm4Raid3n]

There always will be people that will find something too strong or too weak and making them all happy is impossible...I dont think that its bad that Excaliburs skill is most damaging one, from what i played this frame and its image itself says, its damage dealer, every frame should have his specalities something that makes it different and fun. For Excalibur its dmg, as this isnt realy pvp oriented (for now anyway) game and its this way someone says i dont have enough chalenge becouse i kill everything with one skill? use different frame, someone has problem to kill anything? take frame thats simpler to play and has high dmg skills >_> ...

If we start to nerf and buff rather them make every frame playable, special in some way then we will get traditional mmorpg were u will have to have full party with warrior with litle HP so he needs wizard thats has crowd control but no dmg or hp and tank that has hp and some crowd control but no dmg... cause by themselfs, they cant do a thing... is what i think.

Oh this ended up somehow long so sry if there are some typos, english isnt my mother language. ^^

I totally agree!!!!

[Dexter96]

Excalibur has to rely on his 1st for damaging and running away because his other abilities don't help him very much.

Radial blind has a limited radious

High jump...yeah

And his Ulti has a limited range aswell and consumes too much energy to kill so many enemies.

[Bobthehobbe]

I still maintain that there should be buffs over nerfs. If you add a harder difficulty then this current diffuculty can be easy and make a normal and hard mode with slightly high drop rates and more resources and credits. So Yes this would be "easy" but thats why i'd be easy difficulty and you add in a normal and hard. Then all the abilities would be a lot weaker and you couldn't just overload or dash a few times and kill everything because they'd be to strong for that. And if a frame has to rely on 1 ability then that isnt completely the frame, you must have terrible guns because I can run through without any abilities and do fine. Whether just using melee or just guns. So your abilities shouldnt be a crutch you lean on. They should be something to deal with the tough stuff like if you get surrounded or if a hallway is filled with enemys. So to nerf your abilities would just be a silly idea at beast. Your abilities make your frame different and without them this would just be another, average everyday shooter.

[Sev7n]

NOTHING SHOULD BE NERFED OR BUFFED, except embers skills they need a buff xD