I think people are being a bit too harsh on Saryn

[BloodfireSouls]

9 hours ago, ----Fenrir---- said:

10 hours ago, ----Fenrir---- said:

No, people are not too harsh. Saryn is a comparatively bad frame. She is worse than Banshee and Banshee is already a frame almost no one plays (according to DE's statistics one of the least played frames in the game).

Saryn spends most of her time using low DPS weapons like Hikou Prime or Ignis to spread her spores which do not do much either. Time frames like Rhino or Nova for example can use to do some actual damage and killing after using their abilities (Roar and Molecular Prime).

In most cases there is barely any noticeable difference between a Saryn in your team doing her stuff or just being afk. That's how useful Saryn is^^

 

I have no idea how this quote thing works.  It looks like I just quoted a quote, but anyways...

Stop comparing her to other frames.  You've proven your point, other warframes can deal damage better, but that's not what I was trying to grasp.  I'm trying to say that overall saryn is a better warframe than she was.  She fell off way too fast in the days of old, and while she can't go as far as other frames, she can still go way further than she used to be able to.  Calling her a bad frame and saying she deserves all this hate is saying that old saryn was even worse, which clearly wasn't true because people apparently liked old saryn.  (Dunno why, standing in one spot spamming 4 was just soooooo boring, and the damage didn't scale well at all.)  Even though scalability shouldn't matter because lets be honest, the amount of us who go on endurance runs, 6+ hours in survival, 100 waves in defence, are not many.  And those of us who do go on endurance runs, will agree, maybe saryn's not worth taking for those.  I guess everyone is entitled to their own opinion though, so nothing I say is going to make you change your mind.  I just really wish you wouldn't compare warframes, because we aren't talking about those warframes, we're talking about saryn.

[----Fenrir----]

46 minutes ago, BloodfireSouls said:

I have no idea how this quote thing works.  It looks like I just quoted a quote, but anyways...

Stop comparing her to other frames.  You've proven your point, other warframes can deal damage better, but that's not what I was trying to grasp.  I'm trying to say that overall saryn is a better warframe than she was.  She fell off way too fast in the days of old, and while she can't go as far as other frames, she can still go way further than she used to be able to.  Calling her a bad frame and saying she deserves all this hate is saying that old saryn was even worse, which clearly wasn't true because people apparently liked old saryn.  (Dunno why, standing in one spot spamming 4 was just soooooo boring, and the damage didn't scale well at all.)  Even though scalability shouldn't matter because lets be honest, the amount of us who go on endurance runs, 6+ hours in survival, 100 waves in defence, are not many.  And those of us who do go on endurance runs, will agree, maybe saryn's not worth taking for those.  I guess everyone is entitled to their own opinion though, so nothing I say is going to make you change your mind.  I just really wish you wouldn't compare warframes, because we aren't talking about those warframes, we're talking about saryn.

I think it's a matter of perspective. A warframe does not have to be good at everything, it's enough if a warframe is good at SOMETHING. Because as long as a warframe is at least good at something people will play it and it gets used for whatever the warframe may be good for. Frost is great at defending, Volt for speed runs, and so on.

The old Saryn with all her faults at least was good at something, which was killing lower level enemies really fast. She wasn't much use for much else but at least she was good at that which gave her a role in the game. For low level Exterminate missions she was a good choice. The new Saryn on the other hand isn't good at anything. Everything she does other frames can do better. She has no role anymore.

And that is really not a good place for a warframe to be.

[EinheriarJudith]

2 hours ago, ----Fenrir---- said:

The new Saryn on the other hand isn't good at anything. Everything she does other frames can do better.

Name one frame that can halve hp an entire map? saryn is stronger than ember on any mid to high lvl planet. i laugh at embers that cant top me in damage on quick run maps like exterminate or crossfire and even in endless defense where ember falls off hard but saryn doesnt. mag on scales in damage Vs shielded units ash scales in damage because finisher damage is one of the strongest damage types in the game even excaliber with his eb spam has a tough time topping damage vs saryn. what ever youve seen you havent seen nearly enough to say shes not good at anything when viral toxin is exactly what she is master at.

Edited March 2, 2016 by EinheriarJudith

[Gurpgork]

1 minute ago, EinheriarJudith said:

Name one frame that can halve hp an entire map? saryn is stronger than ember on any mid to high lvl planet. i laugh at embers that cant top me in damage on quick run maps like exterminate or crossfire and even in endless defense where ember falls off hard but saryn doesnt. 

Nova, who has to use an ability that costs 4 times as much energy, takes time to spread, and cannot expand to enemies outside of its initial radius.

That being said, it comes with a whole lot of crowd control and the added effect of explosions on death. 

Although I think too many people forget that Saryn and Nova are not mutually exclusive. The combination of Spores and Molecular Prime makes enemies stupidly easy to kill.

[EinheriarJudith]

3 minutes ago, Gurpgork said:

Nova, who has to use an ability that costs 4 times as much energy, takes time to spread, and cannot expand to enemies outside of its initial radius.

That being said, it comes with a whole lot of crowd control and the added effect of explosions on death. 

Although I think too many people forget that Saryn and Nova are not mutually exclusive. The combination of Spores and Molecular Prime makes enemies stupidly easy to kill.

nova cannot halve hp the entire map shes a buffer which boosts damage done to enemies its not even close to being the same thing. and a saryn nova combo is hot.

Edited March 2, 2016 by EinheriarJudith

[Reifnir]

3 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

nova cannot halve hp the entire map shes a buffer which boosts damage done to enemies its not even close to being the same thing. and a saryn nova combo is hot.

Increasing the incoming damage by 200% and applying a huge slow is roughly equivalent, if not better to cutting max HP - at the end of the day, after both effects have been applied, it takes less bullets to kill a debuffed enemy, especially considering a 4x CP scenario where armor is not a factor. Now, if Miasma could perform the role of Corrosive Projection stacking and strip the armor completely at some point or had a better CC factor... But it can't and it doesn't. And Antimatter is an incredibly powerful nuke if you let it absorb enough bullets. 

Adding Nova to Saryn is a good idea, yes. But so is adding Nova to any damage-dealing frame - Ash, Ember, RJ Excal, Maim Equinox, probably even Mesa, nerfed as she is. And Saryn's current kit has little to offer in comparison. 

[ClinkzEastwood]

17 minutes ago, Reifnir said:

Increasing the incoming damage by 200% and applying a huge slow is roughly equivalent, if not better to cutting max HP - at the end of the day, after both effects have been applied, it takes less bullets to kill a debuffed enemy, especially considering a 4x CP scenario where armor is not a factor. Now, if Miasma could perform the role of Corrosive Projection stacking and strip the armor completely at some point or had a better CC factor... But it can't and it doesn't. And Antimatter is an incredibly powerful nuke if you let it absorb enough bullets. 

Adding Nova to Saryn is a good idea, yes. But so is adding Nova to any damage-dealing frame - Ash, Ember, RJ Excal, Maim Equinox, probably even Mesa, nerfed as she is. And Saryn's current kit has little to offer in comparison. 

Spore is also a powerful nuke if you pump bullets in it, what is your point?

And Saryn has more EHP, can heal herself and quintuple her melee damage output, can Nova do that?

And if you want to go hardcore support, Spore+augment will effectively sextuple the damage output of the entire team.

Can Nova do that?

Edited March 2, 2016 by ClinkzEastwood

[Nekonomable]

I dont know about this... Original Saryn was elble to at leaste stand her own with her skills in higher level defences when i used her. now i can pop miasma, spread spores around, and have my molt dienuke, and barely clear the trash.

[ScribbleClash]

Halving enemy health equals doubling the damage, it doesn't matter if 4x CP is present, the damage needed to kill with both abilities is exactly the same.

I see a lot of "bring back old Saryn" threads and I gotta say I do not get why. She was way worse before she got changed, everything except miasma was completly useless. Now her abilities have synergy. I really love that concept and wish it was more of a regular theme with other frames. I see how a nukers want the old ability as it was, but even if Saryn changes, that is never going to happen.

[Specific.Zod]

2 hours ago, ClinkzEastwood said:

Spore is also a powerful nuke if you pump bullets in it, what is your point?

And Saryn has more EHP, can heal herself and quintuple her melee damage output, can Nova do that?

And if you want to go hardcore support, Spore+augment will effectively sextuple the damage output of the entire team.

Can Nova do that?

no it's does not. Spore =/= AMD if you want an agrument. they are totally diffirent. you can kill a bunch of enemies in just a moment with fully charged AMD, can't say that for spore. Nova has double damage with just one button press + super slow. can't find it in Saryn.

Has a melee skill does not mean that frame is melee-favoured, honestly i only play melee saryn in infested, molt need augment to get that hp regen. other than that she can't do melee effectively as other melee-favoured frame versus other factions in high level.

[Defendor]

Yesterday I took my Saryn on a Grineer Exterminate sortie. Pistol only, duo with a pretty good BS spammer Ash teammate. Now, keep in mind that this environment is great for Ash (BS ignores armor, is very mobile and doesn't care about the weapon restriction) and is just ok for Saryn. In the end, I got around 33% of the damage, most of which came from my Spores. All things considered, I'd say that's a very good number against a top damage dealer like Ash in that situation. I'm not a big Saryn player and can't say how good she is in high-end content compared to my favorites, but I can say with certainty that if there's "barely any noticeable difference between a Saryn in your team doing her stuff or just being afk", the Saryn in question needs a better player. 

[blazinvire]

Eh... lately I'm having difficulty deciding what constitutes a 'useless' or 'bad' warframe considering I'm not even sure what level content I'm supposed to be measuring up against.

So many people set the bar at level 100 mobs which are often coupled with a 3x damage bonus from a T4 survival or something, and while that content exists I'm constantly wondering if that's the 'average'.  And this is often before you even consider a group where things get 10x as complicated as far as 'worth' is concerned.

All I really know right now, is that Saryn is in a very odd place in relation to where all the other frames are right now, because theoretically, Spores can scale indefinitely with enemies due to the fact the spreading overlaps like crazy, resulting in more Spores the longer the enemy is alive.  Which, on paper, is awesome, but the amount of times other players have interrupted my spore-murder-train with an untimely super-high burst of damage, I have lost count of.

Though when Spores do reach critical mass, it's fricken glorious, because it seems like regardless of enemy level, they all die at the same speed due to the ever-multiplying spore count.  So in other words, I think she's almost perfect in design, but the 9001 power levels of other frames that haven't been reworked make her seem terribad in comparison.

That and she's a 'creeping death' dps in a game filled with caffeinated squirrels...

[IceColdHawk]

11 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

nova cannot halve hp the entire map shes a buffer which boosts damage done to enemies its not even close to being the same thing. and a saryn nova combo is hot.

Yes it is. If you deal twice the damage of 100 (200) to an enemy that has 200 hp (means it's ohko'd), is the same as if you deal still 100 damage but with enemies hp halved (from 200 to 100). Still ohko. So practically, nova halves enemy hp while still slowing or speeding them up. And when nova is in your team, you can still deal viral procs so you can even quarter their hp through your weapons.

Edited March 2, 2016 by IceColdHawk

[BattledOne]

Saryn has too many issues. 

Firstly she is pretty one note, with all of her abilities being pretty much the same in a sense. Her 1 does spreading DoT. Her 2 gives a fragile decoy and deals DoT on death. Her 3 gives DoT to your weapon. Her 4 deals DoT in an area. Only real variance is in the fact those are different damage types, but in actuality it just feels like more of the same. You can hate on Frost or Excal or other "OP" frames but one thing they have in common is a versatile skillset. See Frost: 1 is a cheap long duration disable, 2 is an AoE slow, 3 is a barrier that slows enemies inside, 4 is and AoE disable and damage with a pint of armor shredding. Excal: 1 is a nuke/movement, 2 is an AoE disable, 3 is AoE damage, 4 is unique melee form.

Then there's the problem of Saryn being very energy inefficient and stat hungry. Abilities that require all 3 stats (Strength, Duration and AoE) usually are limited to 1-2 per kit and are really powerful when built around all of the stats, while still being potent when 1 stat is overlooked or at least have rest of the kit to rely upon. Saryn doesn't have that luxury, you gut duration - all your skills are worthless, you gut strength - same, you gut range - same. On frost if you gut duration - you still have Globe and a strong AoE nuke and a frost proc. You gut frost's strength? He still has globe, AoE slow and disable. 

It's possible to still build her with certain weapons to reach high power levels, but with as big of a weapon arsenal as WF's it'd be surprising if you could find a potent combo with anything. Thing is those combos are quite restraining and when you hear: Saryn is only playable with XX rifles while versus Y until level Z. Getting specific weapon to compliment your abilities should push the frames innate potency higher than the baseline, not allow them to just reach the power baseline.

[----Fenrir----]

11 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

nova cannot halve hp the entire map shes a buffer which boosts damage done to enemies its not even close to being the same thing. and a saryn nova combo is hot.

Sorry, but no matter if you half enemy HP (Saryn), double the damage enemies take (Nova), or double the damage allies do (Rhino), for all practical purposes it's all the same. = enemies take only half as much damage to die.

Both Rhino and Nova do it better, because both can just use their buff/de-buff and are then free you actually do something else. Saryn on the other hand has to constantly keep her combo running and thus little time to actually use a good high DPS weapon to do some killing. Kinda like Necro only ever pressing 3 and doing little else. Nova and Rhino also both come with good crowd control, and Rhino with much better survivability than Saryn.

She can not compete with either of them. Saryn has a hard time competing with Banshee.

Edited March 2, 2016 by ----Fenrir----

[Sunfaiz]

I feel like she does the same thing just with more clicks and more energy. 

 

Nuke room with 1 2 and 4 rather than just 4. It feels like a bandaid dressed as a rework 

[Reifnir]

8 minutes ago, ----Fenrir---- said:

Saryn has a hard time competing with Banshee.

Mind you, Banshee, while seldom played is a far, far better team player.

Her Sonar (with or without Resonance) provides a huge damage boost - over +1000%, even Nova pales in comparison when it comes to pure damage numbers due to overlapping weak spots, Silence adds a bit of needed CC (enemies are staggered when entering range), Sonic Boom can work as a quick "get off me" button with optional armor shredding and Quake can keep the whole darned tile staggering if need be. And her builds *are* more flexible - you can drop STR for overetended Quake/Silence/Boom build, for example. 

 It feels like a bandaid dressed as a rework

Pretty much this.

I mean, yay, she has synergy now!

...Not that it did her any good. 

 

Edited March 2, 2016 by Reifnir

[ClinkzEastwood]

54 minutes ago, ----Fenrir---- said:

Sorry, but no matter if you half enemy HP (Saryn), double the damage enemies take (Nova), or double the damage allies do (Rhino), for all practical purposes it's all the same. = enemies take only half as much damage to die.

Both Rhino and Nova do it better, because both can just use their buff/de-buff and are then free you actually do something else. Saryn on the other hand has to constantly keep her combo running and thus little time to actually use a good high DPS weapon to do some killing. Kinda like Necro only ever pressing 3 and doing little else. Nova and Rhino also both come with good crowd control, and Rhino with much better survivability than Saryn.

She can not compete with either of them. Saryn has a hard time competing with Banshee.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Venom_Dose

Double damage, 40 seconds unmodded, have best single elemental type.

Give +300% damage maxed, user is free to do anything for it's duration, cost around 50 energy if used with minimum efficiency.

Combined with Viral effect from spore gives total of +800% damage against health.

And that was without counting Spore carrying toxin effect to other enemies.

Need to say anything about Rhino or Nova and their garbage buff?

Inb4 Ember with team full of fire.

Edited March 2, 2016 by ClinkzEastwood

[Reifnir]

12 minutes ago, ClinkzEastwood said:

Rhino or Nova and their garbage buff?

Oh, wow, didn't expect that. 

My fanboyism meter just exploded and took a good chunk of the roof with it.

I just can't answer anything constructive (other than "You, sir, are delusional") to this, sorry.

[ClinkzEastwood]

7 minutes ago, Reifnir said:

Oh, wow, didn't expect that. 

My fanboyism meter just exploded and took a good chunk of the roof with it.

I just can't answer anything constructive (other than "You, sir, are delusional") to this, sorry.

Good it's ok good sir, your witty response without anything constructive to say other than implying my build is impractical even with the fact that Saryn can just buff her entire team and go afk for 1 good minute before buffing again and then she can reduce her enemy's hp to half if things get too tough make me very proud of my previous comment.

If you just ask a teeny weeny bit nicer, I could link the build for your observation.

[IceColdHawk]

1 hour ago, ClinkzEastwood said:

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Venom_Dose

Double damage, 40 seconds unmodded, have best single elemental type.

Give +300% damage maxed, user is free to do anything for it's duration, cost around 50 energy if used with minimum efficiency.

Combined with Viral effect from spore gives total of +800% damage against health.

And that was without counting Spore carrying toxin effect to other enemies.

Need to say anything about Rhino or Nova and their garbage buff?

Inb4 Ember with team full of fire.

Now if i could only cast venom dose on myself, that'd be cool to be honest. I'm not sure if people like seeing their mates deal tons of damagez while themself are dealing way less.

Edited March 2, 2016 by IceColdHawk
drunken grammar errors.

[Dod-Regnbue]

As mentioned before hand, a lot of people are caught up on Miasma (4). I personally use this as an activation skill. The rest of the time, I spam Spore (1). It concentrate, or already try to, on the weaker targets in a mob. When this target dies, the Spores spread, as we all know. However, some say that this damage falls off at higher levels. Try using a high output viral weapon. I use Phage. It activates the Spores, causing DPS and all the while they are taking hits from Phage. You can even activate Spore while firing for an extra effect. Miasma I simply use as a low level nuke, or a small amount of CC due to the few seconds of stun it provides. With Molt, I use the Augment MOD, Regenerative Molt, and organise this skill when damaged. Spamming to heal faster. But as I said. I use her 1 ability the most, in conjunction with a viral weapon, she can easily survive and dominate higher levels. Often coming away with 60% + damage from Squad play. Miasma is nothing more than a momentary stun or a way to set off all the Spores in your immediate area. 

[IceColdHawk]

2 minutes ago, Dod-Regnbue said:

 But as I said. I use her 1 ability the most, in conjunction with a viral weapon, she can easily survive and dominate higher levels. 

Why use viral weapons when the 1 is already taking care of viral'ing the enemies?

[Dod-Regnbue]

2 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

Why use viral weapons when the 1 is already taking care of viral'ing the enemies?

I honestly couldn't tell you why it works. All I know is that it works. I have taken my Saryn on Sortie and the combination of Spore and Phage wrecks half the map. Often leaving that Valkyr that saves everyone just standing there. 

[IceColdHawk]

Just now, Dod-Regnbue said:

I honestly couldn't tell you why it works. All I know is that it works. I have taken my Saryn on Sortie and the combination of Spore and Phage wrecks half the map. Often leaving that Valkyr that saves everyone just standing there. 

Okay sure, if you're playing viral against naked grineer it sure is devastating.