I think people are being a bit too harsh on Saryn

[ClinkzEastwood]

30 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

Now if i could only cast venom dose on myself, that'd be cool to be honest. I'm not sure if people like seeing their mates deals tons of damagez while theyselves are dealing way less.

EV Trinity must be an incredibly unpopular frame.

[IceColdHawk]

1 minute ago, ClinkzEastwood said:

EV Trinity must be an incredibly unpopular frame.

Maybe it's because there are only Trinity and Trinity Prime that are popular "frames"? ;)

Anyway yeah, i got ya. I'm pretty sure most people would like an EV trin in their team, otherwise i highly DOUBT that the EV trins love being EV trins. I for one, don't like playing a frame with literally 0 skills (ev trin build).

 

[Dod-Regnbue]

2 hours ago, ClinkzEastwood said:

EV Trinity must be an incredibly unpopular frame.

Perhaps you should try my idea before being negative about it? I promise you it does work.

 

[BloodfireSouls]

On 3/1/2016 at 10:59 AM, IceColdHawk said:

i highly DOUBT that the EV trins love being EV trins.

 

I love playing Trinity.  EV build, Link, Bless, you name it.  Trinity is my favorite frame.  And tbh, if you consider trin having 0 skills being the truth, you need to do some serious thinking.  You can argue that she does no damage all you want, but I'll just sit here and laugh at you when your damage falls off and I'm sitting here still being useful even though the enemies are level 3000.

[CrudShuzKong]

4 minutes ago, BloodfireSouls said:

I love playing Trinity.  EV build, Link, Bless, you name it.  Trinity is my favorite frame.  And tbh, if you consider trin having 0 skills being the truth, you need to do some serious thinking.  You can argue that she does no damage all you want, but I'll just sit here and laugh at you when your damage falls off and I'm sitting here still being useful even though the enemies are level 3000.

Also energy vampire is the best scaling single target nuke in the whole game, just saying...

[IceColdHawk]

5 minutes ago, BloodfireSouls said:

I love playing Trinity.  EV build, Link, Bless, you name it.  Trinity is my favorite frame.  And tbh, if you consider trin having 0 skills being the truth, you need to do some serious thinking.  You can argue that she does no damage all you want, but I'll just sit here and laugh at you when your damage falls off and I'm sitting here still being useful even though the enemies are level 3000.

You got me wrong. I didn't say trin needs no skill. Well, EV trin really doesn't. But bless trin is alright. I said "0" skills because the only thing you do as EV trin is spam your 2. I personally played bless trin often myself and she is one of my most used frames. EV trin however is plain boring.

[Stratego89]

There are two main reasons- and to go with that two types of people- for why Saryn's rework gets flak.

The first reason is because she can no longer spam 4 all game to instaclear stuff without prep work, and that makes a certain kind of player- and we all know what I'm talking about _{cough draco cough}- mad because they can't cheese the game anymore, and then they claim she was nerfed because they are literally unable to play legitimately anymore after cheesing everything for so long. Like muscle atrophy- but with "skill" (if you can even call it that) instead of muscles.

The second reason is because while all of her skill's individual issues were fixed, her kit as a whole was not and they through in some incredibly forced synergy onto her kit that does not work BECAUSE it is forced- most likely due to the great reception of another certain BEAUTIFUL rework that was done prior, that people mentioned they loved synergy in- and DE operating the way they tend to probably thought "OK THIS WORKS- now let's plaster it all over everything no matter what" which just doesn't work. TL;DR- Saryn's skills were fixed, Saryn's kit was not fixed. Toxic Lash is an incredibly lackluster skill that might as well not exist, people wanted miasma to be an expanding cloud that sticks around for a while instead of a nuke skill that's a one and instantly over thing, etc etc. None of that changed. DE did very well at keeping Frost's skills exactly the same while at the same time making them all very useful and work together well with both each other and frost himself- but they did not really do that with Saryn. Reason: Saryn's skills just can't be great unless they totally change around. Some stuff is just so outdated/bad that it has to be replaced like super jump was- only this time they need to remember to not replace a bland/useless skill with something so all-powerful that it makes all of your other skills, your guns, and even your teammates totally redundant. _{*stares at exalted blade with increasingly strong bloodlust*} 

[DasHurz]

Weird.

I've picked up Saryn again recently, built her for reach and max efficiency (see AGGP's video). Did some 45min+ survivals, did some sorties - always had most kills.

(2-)3-1 => melee, everything dies. Keep blocking to take almost no damage. Pop a 4 if you have procs up or just do a few for fun, since they cost next to nothing.

As per usual, only nullifiers are the thing that kills me. I don't get how Saryn is supposed to be trash with that kind of performance. All I'd like is for Molt to be have an invulnerability period or ot be beefier as so many other people said.

Sure I won't say no to a buff but that'll just make the nerfhammer hover over her again.

[NKDG]

I initially hated saryn's rework purely on her major ehp loss and still don't think that she's even close to nearly as effective trying to play armor queen over health sponge (even with prime armor boost), so yeah, I still don't like her rework at all personally. However, I've been told miasma spamming wasn't so much a radial nuke as it was a quick TRASHMOB killer, which is something current miasma can't do effectively at all. With that in mind, I do see her new miasma as a nerf, and it still confuses me why the debuff frame's ultimate isn't actually a debuff at all more than a DoT attack... thus, I'd say three things about new saryn that would put her in the nerfed category 

1: she lost her place as queen of trashmob kills

2: she lost a lot of survivability (basically a middle finger to my tank saryn build in my opinion)

3: her kit's now very confused as to what it wants to make her (debuff, decoy, melee buff, DoT = unsure of goal if playing her)

[TheMightyBaloon]

On 2/29/2016 at 4:34 AM, tnccs215 said:

She now demands time and work. And its so much funnier.

I don't know how many times I am going to say this but there is nothing fun at a frame that demands work. I think the biggest issues with the rework is that she became another atlas, another rhino. She is just another frame that people will use to just avoid playing meta. With the old saryn it was fun to walk in a room of lvl 20 to lvl 30 enemies and insta vaporize them. She was never a top tier frame back in the day, but she was just enough fun. You could easily kill lower tier to early mid tier mobs , aka 1 to like 40ish and maybe 50ish. But she didn't scale well late game. Now you get to watch enemies wither while you set up a combo. Also it is very painful to mod for a frame that requires every aspect of her stats to be above 100%. If you lose duration, you lose dmg on miasma, if you lose efficiency , you lose overall sustain dmg as saryn. If you end up losing range, well unless you are playing full melee set up, you are basically losing the ability to do anything with your skills. And if you lose power strength , you lose out on dmg again. The spore change was nice, i'll give DE that, but to make her a combo frame, i think that was the wrong approach to take towards the saryn rework. She was a pure, unadulterated fun. She was explosive and when it came to burst dmg, she was the queen. To all of those people that complained about her being a press 4 to win warframe, how many of you are playing saryn?? Probably non of you because it is tiring to play a frame that requires you to first figure out a proper modding set up and then take that into game set up a combo to do sub-optimal damage. I've taken saryn into higher lvl grineer and corpus and even her specialty, infested missions and you know what, both of my set ups on her, one optimized around miasma dmg, and the other around spore are just sub-par. It takes time to set up a combo, not having an EV trinity kills your momentum since you cannot invest into primed flow. Running zenurik for the energy regen is nice but still "meh". And what i find myself doing is spamming miasma for that 1 second cc that provides so I can kill mobs. 

 

So all in all I do think the current saryn skill set is wrong. We could have been better with a just a spore/molt combo interaction and keeping her 4 the same so she retains that explosiveness for which people played her for.

[Djego27]

4 hours ago, Stratego89 said:

Reason: Saryn's skills just can't be great unless they totally change around. Some stuff is just so outdated/bad that it has to be replaced like super jump was- only this time they need to remember to not replace a bland/useless skill with something so all-powerful that it makes all of your other skills, your guns, and even your teammates totally redundant. _{*stares at exalted blade with increasingly strong bloodlust*} 

I would not go that far. The main problem of spore is the lack of any kind of CC component, a 3s stagger when the ability first hits and a 1s stagger if you pop spores(by actually shooting/melee attack not by AOE nuking them with CL or a ignis) would go a long way. Giving molt a snow globe like damage immunity for 4s would make it as useful at high levels as it is on lower ones and adding toxic lash to all weapons would also help a lot at higher levels.

Damage is fine I guess(random high MR Pluto DS group, the other people had tonkors), even if I prefer Ember for the much higher damage against single targets like eximus healers.

Edited March 30, 2016 by Djego27

[Stratego89]

21 minutes ago, Djego27 said:

I would not go that far. The main problem of spore is the lack of any kind of CC component, a 3s stagger when the ability first hits and a 1s stagger if you pop spores(by actually shooting/melee attack not by AOE nuking them with CL or a ignis) would go a long way. Giving molt a snow globe like damage immunity for 4s would make it as useful at high levels as it is on lower ones and adding toxic lash to all weapons would also help a lot at higher levels.

Damage is fine I guess(random high MR Pluto DS group, the other people had tonkors), even if I prefer Ember for the much higher damage against single targets like eximus healers.

Don't get me wrong- saryn is good now, she's just not as good as she could be. I don't want OP, I just want frost-tier on everything (if that happens some day enemies can all be rebalanced a lot better than if they did it now).

Spore is actually her best ability by far- I have no issues with that one I love the way it works.

Molt COULD be good if rather than how it works now it did a 100% aggro draw to anything that is already looking when it's cast for some time- and additionally drops your detectability/aggro draw by ~75% completely for a short time after casting as well. This would get your pursuers off of you and keep you from immediately picking up a bunch more. Also I'd imagine molt removes status effects when cast- but if it doesn't that should be added as well. If it gets damage immunity for any amount of time it should be ~2s tops. MAYBE 3 absolutely no more than that though. Some people like to use it as a quick bomb- like me for example. Also any damage stored up by it could be dished out at 50% damage added to it's explosion or something. Give it scaling into later game to go with spores'.

As I said before- toxic lash should just go. Complete replacement. With what? Idk. If I had a suggestion I'd post it. I don't suggest reworks unless I think it's actually a good idea. I'd love to hear anyone's thoughts on a replacement for it.

Miasma... Idk what I want to happen with this frankly. Others want the slow spreading cloud. Sounds cool, but I honestly think the way it is now is pretty fine. The "synergy" they forced on her is literally just to limit it's nuking ability. It's a bandaid and it's blatantly obvious. It could be done better but it works, so I'd rather it not be touched again honestly.

I'd like to see toxic lash go away- but it's effect is very saryn, and unique. It should go away as a skill, but I think it would be cool if Saryn just (in addition to her existing one) had a passive that gave her ~12.5-25% bonus poison damage that DOES NOT fuse with any mods on the weapon- at least on melee whether or not it's equipped.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

On Monday, February 29, 2016 at 8:20 AM, ClinkzEastwood said:

New set of skills=different play style. Some people still keep the old play-style playing the new Saryn, which results in some hilariously bad Youtube videos saying the rework is a straigth nerf.

Other thing is while I won't say she's a hard frame to play, she's harder and different than all other frames in this game, which make her to be unpopular despite being very strong (equinox shares the same problem)

Also min maxers and rushers only like using certain setups while doing missions: Excal trin for Draco, Blind Mirage for interception, 4-frames setup for raid, Ember for any low level content. This makes Saryn to be less appealing.

Other people in the other hand like her because there are so many ways to build her you could talk about it for days.

This summs it up. And seriously... different playstyles don't even require different builds most of the time.

 

She mostly profits from the way you play her and from the weapons you use. A basicly utility build with lets say eather 2 range 1 strength or 2 strength 1 range mod is plenty to wreck evrything you have the patience to pull trough. Low level bombing, high level scaling, just switch your steategy while the proccs spread and offer team utility! Her spore detonation damage paired with poison alone is the multiple of what miasama was EVER able to do.

 

Sry, i'm not gonna be neutral about it. If you can't get the expected results off her then it's not the frames fault. It's your own fault.

[Djego27]

6 hours ago, Stratego89 said:

Don't get me wrong- saryn is good now, she's just not as good as she could be. I don't want OP, I just want frost-tier on everything (if that happens some day enemies can all be rebalanced a lot better than if they did it now).

Spore is actually her best ability by far- I have no issues with that one I love the way it works.

Molt COULD be good if rather than how it works now it did a 100% aggro draw to anything that is already looking when it's cast for some time- and additionally drops your detectability/aggro draw by ~75% completely for a short time after casting as well. This would get your pursuers off of you and keep you from immediately picking up a bunch more. Also I'd imagine molt removes status effects when cast- but if it doesn't that should be added as well. If it gets damage immunity for any amount of time it should be ~2s tops. MAYBE 3 absolutely no more than that though. Some people like to use it as a quick bomb- like me for example. Also any damage stored up by it could be dished out at 50% damage added to it's explosion or something. Give it scaling into later game to go with spores'.

As I said before- toxic lash should just go. Complete replacement. With what? Idk. If I had a suggestion I'd post it. I don't suggest reworks unless I think it's actually a good idea. I'd love to hear anyone's thoughts on a replacement for it.

Miasma... Idk what I want to happen with this frankly. Others want the slow spreading cloud. Sounds cool, but I honestly think the way it is now is pretty fine. The "synergy" they forced on her is literally just to limit it's nuking ability. It's a bandaid and it's blatantly obvious. It could be done better but it works, so I'd rather it not be touched again honestly.

I'd like to see toxic lash go away- but it's effect is very saryn, and unique. It should go away as a skill, but I think it would be cool if Saryn just (in addition to her existing one) had a passive that gave her ~12.5-25% bonus poison damage that DOES NOT fuse with any mods on the weapon- at least on melee whether or not it's equipped.

 

I think spore is probably to good of a ability to low level nuke atm in combination with certain weapons, even a melee slide attack with a primed reach gas mios can often kill everything within 37m on Drako. While the viral proc stays useful, toxic and viral damage components are very heavy migrated by toxic ancients or ancient healers, if you not also carry a weapon that can do a lot of radiation procs at the same time. I mostly play frames with solid CC that gives you the room you need at higher levels, saryn in comparison feels to limited in that department, even if you 4 spam every 3s to migrate that it just feels like something important like CC is missing to round out the tool kit.

I next to never use the 2-1-4 of saryn, since you can spread spores and toxic procs fairly easy with weapons and you hammer 4 for CC anyway at high levels. I guess they could just make it able to be consume the molt by miasma during the invincibility phase as well. 2-3s would be to short in my opinion, since you would need to caste it nearly in direct melee range against infested or close to a pack of units that instantly target switch(what they don't do that often) to get some HP on it.

Well you could replace it with something else but I don't think it would be to bad if it would work with all weapons, so you would have far more choice with weapons and modding like a radiation(for aura removal) and Ice(for CC reasons) status weapon, while still having the poison proc build in to stack more damage over time(it should be excluded from spore toxin proc transfers on ranged weapons, since a bit more focused damage against single heavy targets is the main issue in my opinion) as well as the damage buff, again mostly to help with single targets like eximus healers, bombards, heavy gunners at high levels. Auto spore spreading could also be removed from using the ability with ranged weapons(I don't think it is a good thing to turn every ranged weapon into a Ignis or Hiku prime on the frame), all I really think is missing is a bit better single target damage for higher levels. I still think that the toxic proc should be based off toxin damage on the weapon and the extra toxin from the skill as baseline, so pure toxic modding is beneficial for dps reasons and non toxic on the weapon a bit penalized, but that is most likely just me being used to very restrictive and specific weapons\modding options with Ember.

I agree on Misasma, even if a extra corrosive proc on each tick would make it better scaling then the current "press 4 for 3s of CC miasma" at high levels. Then again miasma did not really change that much and it was not really used at high levels before the rework as well.

Edited March 30, 2016 by Djego27

[Mandingy]

On 3/30/2016 at 0:52 AM, Stratego89 said:

There are two main reasons- and to go with that two types of people- for why Saryn's rework gets flak.

The first reason is because she can no longer spam 4 all game to instaclear stuff without prep work, and that makes a certain kind of player- and we all know what I'm talking about _{cough draco cough}- mad because they can't cheese the game anymore, and then they claim she was nerfed because they are literally unable to play legitimately anymore after cheesing everything for so long. Like muscle atrophy- but with "skill" (if you can even call it that) instead of muscles.

The second reason is because while all of her skill's individual issues were fixed, her kit as a whole was not and they through in some incredibly forced synergy onto her kit that does not work BECAUSE it is forced- most likely due to the great reception of another certain BEAUTIFUL rework that was done prior, that people mentioned they loved synergy in- and DE operating the way they tend to probably thought "OK THIS WORKS- now let's plaster it all over everything no matter what" which just doesn't work. TL;DR- Saryn's skills were fixed, Saryn's kit was not fixed. Toxic Lash is an incredibly lackluster skill that might as well not exist, people wanted miasma to be an expanding cloud that sticks around for a while instead of a nuke skill that's a one and instantly over thing, etc etc. None of that changed. DE did very well at keeping Frost's skills exactly the same while at the same time making them all very useful and work together well with both each other and frost himself- but they did not really do that with Saryn. Reason: Saryn's skills just can't be great unless they totally change around. Some stuff is just so outdated/bad that it has to be replaced like super jump was- only this time they need to remember to not replace a bland/useless skill with something so all-powerful that it makes all of your other skills, your guns, and even your teammates totally redundant. _{*stares at exalted blade with increasingly strong bloodlust*} 

This. All of this. Toxic Lash literally forcing melee to be useful was a bad move. Keeping Miasma as a nuke ability was entirely redundant to what they were advertising her rework/revisit to be: a mass debuffer, a support caster, etc. They also never addressed the biggest issue with Molt in the past, which persists as the biggest issue people still have with her.

Due to the way Spore transfers toxin procs, it's one of the very few abilities that can infinitely scale if done properly. But I believe for the moment, DE should focus on fixing the issues of scaling in general, particularly the way enemies scale, and worry about rebalancing abilities and such after that.

[Dod-Regnbue]

It is all about the Spores.

Solved.

[Judggernaught]

The way I see it, Saryn was redesigned with Saryn Prime and the Focus system in mind. So that regular Saryn can sometimes feel wonkey or hard to get her full planned rotation out on.

[Vitalis_Inamorta]

On 3/1/2016 at 1:59 AM, TychusMechanicus said:

Yep, very vague, so useful... Leech eximii? Energy reduction?

There are a million reasons why you run out of energy... In my experience I was swimming in energy with a level 19 Saryn in Eris dark sector survival solo survival. Without triggering my Zenurik passive and my Corrosive Projection aura isn't an energy booster either. I just kept on popping those spores with Toxic Lash and spamming all my abilities.

 

 

I think the main reason people think she was nerfed is because the glitch that meant that Miasma saw an exponential damage gain once you knocked the duration below 1s is gone. A good build of Saryn meant you could do over 13k corrosive damage without taking a dip from 75% efficiency.

Now this is gone, but you gained a lot of useful tricks:

• An infinite spam of viral and toxin procs? -Check!
• Energy regain and elemental toxin damage boost to melee attacks? -Check!
• Get rid of any procs affecting you and shedding some aggro? -Check!
• And on top of that you have an ult that deals damage over time, staggers and if you use it on crowds you already softened up with attacks you can even do triple damage? -CHECK!

Wow, such nerf...

Now Saryn isn't a nuke but deals a LOT MORE damage over time than ever before and her kit falls off a lot later than previously.

The only point where I think Saryn could be called worse than before is the fact that it is hard to melee, parkour 2.0 and cast all four abilities at once. At least I can feel my hands seriously tiring after an hour of playing her new kit. 

 

Every other complaint feels like an excuse to whine that there is hardly any option left besides Ash for a press 4 to win frame. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

WHOA! slow down.  Saryn has never been able to do 13k damage in one ult PERIOD since Blind Rage made her ult red crit (during which her ult did about 12k per tick... but I digress).  Stop pulling up old lies and misunderstandings about how her ult worked with duration.  Please, seriously?

The way it worked was that her damage was divided by the total duration of her ult, so that it did damage per tick.  Most other ults of approximately the same type, if you ditched duration, you lost total damage done as well.  For Saryn, however, all it did was compress her total damage into less and less ticks.  You could put on full power strength and efficiency, decent range, and heavily negative duration (13%....) and compress all of her damage done with that power strength (~4,500) into a single tick.  Let it be known that your power efficiency would only be 145% with this build at max though.  13k would be three castings of her ult for around 150 energy, aka a Saryn (non prime) emptying her entire energy pool in a couple of seconds.

First off, Zenurik was never a requirement for frames, and they certainly aren't balanced around it, so why the hell should reworked frames be nerfed or weakened to balance them with zenurik to the level of other frames without zenurik?  Your zenurik-using argument, as well as anything involving arcane energize, is utterly illogical and impertinent to the discussion.

As for your useful tricks:

• Her 2 and 3 still cost a lot more than they should given what they do.  Molt should probably cost 25 energy, especially given its extreme lack of strength at present, and Toxic Lash should prooobably also cost 25.  It's not even that strong, and the duration is kinda poor.
• Small energy regain, unless you're using an insanely fast weapon like the ninkondis, which in turn have incredibly short range, or using a larger weapon on a large crowd of individuals.  This is great versus tougher enemies, but Saryn has no particularly good survival mechanism versus higher leveled crowds, since her 2 explodes instantly (that 50 energy cost for it would be okay if it absorbed enemy damage for its hp for the first 2-3 seconds, but as-is, it sucks horribly) against stronger enemies, and her only other CC is her ult which costs 100 energy to cc for about 3 seconds.
• Getting rid of procs is nice, but shedding aggro?  Please, against any enemy Saryn actually needs to shed aggro against, this 900-2700 hp dummy will go down in about 1-2 seconds or less, very literally.
• Potential for 3k damage on an ult would be great, if we still lived in an age of Warframe that existed a few YEARS ago.  Today's good ults do literally tens of thousands of damage (any of the channeled weapon "exalted" ults) PER SECOND, provide huge damage reduction for the team anywhere on the map, shred massive amounts of armor, boost the owner's armor by 100% while being able to provide spreading AoE staggers and heal the whole team for thousands of points in seconds, or provide truly massive CC potential.  This 4 provides a measly 1-9k damage (with full toxic boosted spores and full power strength you can get off a 9k total ult) and about 3 seconds of CC in a very small area indeed compared to most other burst damage 4s with short CC.

Agreed, it's not really a nerf, but Saryn was fairly bad to begin with, and this didn't do her any favors, making her considerably less energy efficient to do roughly the same amount of damage as before when you get to the aforementioned stronger enemies.

Oh, yeah, and a lot of frames are still heavily press 4 to win.  Mirage, Vauban, Loki, Nyx, Excal, Valkyr, Rhino, the list goes on and on.

[IamTheSparta]

Nahhhh, Saryn is fine, she dont need a lot of energy because you dont have to spam for being efficient.

But i kinda agree that molt should have more resistance in higher levels, and, why not, a corrosive proc on miasma

She is deadly

[-Temp0-]

Yeah and naramon or arcane trickery all the way. 

Edited April 1, 2016 by Nomen_Nescio

[IamTheSparta]

42 minutes ago, Nomen_Nescio said:

Yeah and naramon or arcane trickery all the way. 

QQ, tell me which warframe can fight vs 1hitKO corrupted without naramon? valkyr, trinity blessing and the invisibles warframes, that's all

Also, you dont say anything on the damages, thx for giving me reason :)

[(PSN)aiptekfanboy]

On 3/1/2016 at 10:52 PM, BloodfireSouls said:

Hello again, warframe forums.  I'm going to tread lightly today, because this topic seems to be creating a lot of arguments, so I'll TRY to stay neutral when talking about this, but honestly, it might be hard because I like the new saryn.  No guarantees.

So, I wanted to talk about Saryn today because I'd put off playing her for a while because I figured she had to be the next prime, which was in fact, correct.  So, I didn't get to experience the rework for a while.  After having played her now, though, I feel as if the arguments I've seen are a bit too aggressive.  I feel like people are being a bit too harsh on her.  In no way am I saying she's god tier, but also in no way am I saying she's trash.

The argument I've seen the most is that she can't kill high level armored enemies.  This argument seems invalid to me because she couldn't even do that before the rework, what makes this any different?  In my opinon, DE messed up things by trying to keep high damage potential on Miasma, but instead of instant feedback, its more drawn-out feedback, when on the other hand, the rest of her kit was clearly geared towards spreading debuffs to enemies.  In another thread about saryn I just read, people suggested adding a corrosive proc to Miasma, which I think is an incredible Idea, as it would help to further identify her as a debuff warframe, and would also create an opportunity to deal more damage with that armor getting stripped away, satisfying both parties.  Those who want to deal damage, AND those who want to play her in a team setting and debuff enemies.

Look, I'm not saying people are wrong when they say she's not good.  Everyone has their own opinions, but in the grand scheme of things, she isn't as bad as people make her out to be.  Yes, she still has problems, but they aren't problems that are so bad that you can't use her at all.

I've been using a tanky debuff build, making use of regenerative molt (that mod is incredible, I love it) and spreading viral and toxin procs with spores and toxic lash, and it works surprisingly well. 

I just think that people are giving her an excessive ammount of crap for not being able to do something she was never able to do in the first place.  I've seen the countless videos of people going into the simulacrum against a level 105 heavy gunner and yelling and screaming at how little she did to it, and tbh, even with the old saryn, you were never going to flat out kill that heavy gunner with miasma.  With the old Saryn, once Miasma fell off, you were completely useless.  (I may be wrong about that, I didn't know much about old saryn because I was young and stupid and played to what everyone else was using, so all I ever did was play miasma build)  At least with the new saryn, her other abilities become of some use, and aren't just buttons that you never press.

At the end of the day, its completely up to you to decide if you think Saryn is not good or whatever else you can think to call her, I just feel people are being too harsh on her.  Calling her "Trash" is far from the truth.  I think if you can learn to manage your expectations, and not expect her to destroy these enemies in no time flat, you won't be so upset with her.

As always, thanks for reading and taking the time out of your day to do so.  I appreciate it, and good luck farming for whatever you're after!

nope

The reason I refuse any Saryn or Saryn prime frames in my squad is that other frames like rhino,frost, mirage, etc bring more to my squad than saryn when enemies go beyond level 100.

When enemies are way past level 100 the last thing I need is someone trying to drop a regenerative molt versus USEFULL things like blind, stomp,freeze, maim

That goes double If I hear the saryn player telling me that they have naramon focus as my response is to leave the saryn frame in the closet and bring a usefull frame instead with that naramon focus.

[(PSN)aiptekfanboy]

13 minutes ago, IamTheSparta said:

QQ, tell me which warframe can fight vs 1hitKO corrupted without naramon? valkyr, trinity blessing and the invisibles warframes, that's all

Also, you dont say anything on the damages, thx for giving me reason :)

lets see loooooong duration freeze frost, looong duration stomp rhino, loooong duration blind mirage, then shoot or melee and when cc wears off follow up with sonicore cc blast ragdolls and rinse repeat till the hour or two hours are up or its time for food or to go take a break.

[ClinkzEastwood]

23 minutes ago, (PS4)aiptekfanboy said:

nope

The reason I refuse any Saryn or Saryn prime frames in my squad is that other frames like rhino,frost, mirage, etc bring more to my squad than saryn when enemies go beyond level 100.

When enemies are way past level 100 the last thing I need is someone trying to drop a regenerative molt versus USEFULL things like blind, stomp,freeze, maim

That goes double If I hear the saryn player telling me that they have naramon focus as my response is to leave the saryn frame in the closet and bring a usefull frame instead with that naramon focus.

You're talking like people actually craving to be in your party.

Are you some kind of celeb that's being able to play with you is a privilege?

[(PSN)aiptekfanboy]

36 minutes ago, ClinkzEastwood said:

You're talking like people actually craving to be in your party.

Are you some kind of celeb that's being able to play with you is a privilege?

Key host decides what frames join that goes double when a new prime frame or weapon drops and the most needed part is gasp on a t3 tower and those wanting the part are going lf lf lf t3 and why do you ask such a basic question? Are you some kind of never been in void mission yet have opinions type ''player''.._?