Update 18.5's Biggest Mistake

[Cradicias]

1 minute ago, (PS4)KestralSylver said:

K bai!

C u l8r!

Don't be rude, keep this is a civil discussion.

[(PSN)KestralSylver]

1 minute ago, Cradicias said:

Don't be rude, keep this is a civil discussion.

Wasn't rude.

Interpretations are subjective.

 

Beyond that, you don't seem to have any input on anything that I've said towards the topic at hand, which makes me wonder if you actually are looking for discussion or if you are simply gathering one sided support for your viewpoint.

Edited March 4, 2016 by (PS4)KestralSylver

[Ed94]

Reads the requirements having not gotten the update yet....Oh gawd why.

[Cradicias]

15 minutes ago, (PS4)KestralSylver said:

Mistake is pretty subjective in this context. To DE it makes perfect sense and is not a mistake. To me, it makes perfect sense and is not a mistake.

His key is harder to make due to the fact that he is the newest, shiniest toy. Same reason Saryn Prime required Nitain Extract to craft when no previous Prime has ever required it. DE always makes the newest stuff difficult to attain and usually employs newer, harder to obtain resources in crafting the components for it. This is nothing new and will not go away.

The reason this approach is taken is pretty simple. If the new frame, weapon, or item isn't hard to get, it doesn't provide much incentive for players who are a) impatient, b) on a limited playing schedule, or c) financially secure and generous to pay for it with plat. It also makes the new frame feel kinda cool when you're one of the only people who has it for a period of time, which for a lot of players can be very gratifying and provides heavier motivation to farm it, craft it, and potentially spend plat rushing it.

It's not a mistake, it's a marketing strategy to produce revenue. It's tried and true.

I'm actually at work, so, right now I'm kinda just responding as I can. But, to your points here, again, the previous keys were at the time the newest hotness and did not require nearly as much to acquire. So, yes, I feel this key's relative difficulty in comparison is a poor decision on their part.

Edit: And I understand the market reasons for it and am not upset at them for doing the marketing that way. I am upset that the key comes from a source that's on a time limited schedule and requires far more work acquiring in-game resources than previous keys.

Edited March 4, 2016 by Cradicias

[(PSN)KestralSylver]

Just now, Cradicias said:

I'm actually at work, so, right now I'm kinda just responding as I can. But, to your points here, again, the previous keys were at the time the newest hotness and did not require nearly as much to acquire. So, yes, I feel this key's relative difficulty in comparison is a poor decision on their part.

Ah, understandable. I'm at work myself but things are a bit slow, so I'm able to respond with ease.

Anyway, do you know what the hardest to obtain resources were at the time of the release of said keys? Argon Crystals.

The reason this one is harder is because there are harder to obtain (well, maybe not harder, but rarer certainly) resources that the devs can lock the new items behind.

As new rare resources are added to the game, don't be surprised when all of the new items that come out afterward require the new rare resource. This has pretty much always been the case in Warframe.

[Marthrym]

They've been doing that for a while now. Hoping they would stop this trend is a bit naive. I have to admit that I didn't see the whole Baro thing coming though. Not a fan personally. Nitain itself is not a bad thing, it's the way DE put it behind yet another timewall that understandably bothers many a player that has that little something called a "life" out there in the "real world". But hey, keep in mind that all this is for the "greater good" of DE's wallet!

And the visual update is noice. Very noice. Kinda have to mention the good that came out of this update after all.^^

Edited March 4, 2016 by Marthrym

[Cradicias]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)KestralSylver said:

Ah, understandable. I'm at work myself but things are a bit slow, so I'm able to respond with ease.

Anyway, do you know what the hardest to obtain resources were at the time of the release of said keys? Argon Crystals.

The reason this one is harder is because there are harder to obtain (well, maybe not harder, but rarer certainly) resources that the devs can lock the new items behind.

As new rare resources are added to the game, don't be surprised when all of the new items that come out afterward require the new rare resource. This has pretty much always been the case in Warframe.

I understand that, and with the news that Nitain can actually be found in the new spy mission caches, that does make them slightly easier to find than before. Still requires at most 20 prime parts thrown to the void trader to purchase the key and not everyone has a mountain of those things just laying around (I know I don't, what with buying all those prisma weapons and prime mods).

[Cradicias]

2 minutes ago, Marthrym said:

They've been doing that for a while now. Hoping they would stop this trend is a bit naive. I have to admit that I didn't see the whole Baro thing coming though. Not a fan personally. Nitain itself is not a bad thing, it's the way DE put it behind yet another timewall that understandably bothers many a player that has that little something called a "life" out there in the "real world". But hey, keep in mind that all this is for the "greater good" of DE's wallet!

And the visual update is noice. Very noice. Kinda have to mention the good that came out of this update after all.^^

Oh I know, loading into my ship was like a brand new experience. Thus why this was my only issue about the update. XD

Edited March 4, 2016 by Cradicias

[(PSN)KestralSylver]

1 minute ago, Cradicias said:

I understand that, and with the news that Nitain can actually be found in the new spy mission caches, that does make them slightly easier to find than before. Still requires at most 20 prime parts thrown to the void trader to purchase the key and not everyone has a mountain of those things just laying around (I know I don't, what with buying all those prisma weapons and prime mods).

And that is a bit of a hefty price, I'll admit.

As far as I'm aware, Baro wasn't around for other key-locked frames.

[Guardian_Legion]

he selling anything outside of the key?

[Cradicias]

1 minute ago, Legionofone said:

he selling anything outside of the key?

Right now, no. He was actually rushed to appear today, wasn't scheduled for another 6 days.

[felixsylvaris]

It could be worse.

200 ducats = 4 saryn p sys or 20 of whatevers.

Nitan extract is for me serious problem since acquiring it is all random and depends on good timing with alerts.

But it drop only on death of some obscure enemy and with very low chance, so it is not that bad.

[renleech]

 Update notes say Nitain can be obtained in sabotage caches of the new missions. stop whining and go play sabotage 2.0.

 About the ducats, Well, i agree. But it's valid, keep the veterans from acquiring it too fast, myself included.

 Oh, while i write this reply, i look with sadness at the speed of my download with my crappy internet. I will probably play warframe again only tomorrow at night. Which means Baro may not be around when i want to get the quest key. Nice, isn't it? Am i crying because of it? No. i have other things to do, other games to play while the download happens.

I just love when people complain with their bellies full...

 

[Cradicias]

7 minutes ago, renleech said:

 Update notes say Nitain can be obtained in sabotage caches of the new missions. stop whining and go play sabotage 2.0.

 About the ducats, Well, i agree. But it's valid, keep the veterans from acquiring it too fast, myself included.

 Oh, while i write this reply, i look with sadness at the speed of my download with my crappy internet. I will probably play warframe again only tomorrow at night. Which means Baro may not be around when i want to get the quest key. Nice, isn't it? Am i crying because of it? No. i have other things to do, other games to play while the download happens.

I just love when people complain with their bellies full...

 

...Don't be rude and make sure you read the whole thread before making assumptions. I've acknowledged the news about the Nitain and that it's better than I thought it was. This isn't whining, it's providing feedback (in this case in the negative) about their update. Not all feedback is gonna be positive and all negative feedback isn't "whining."

[Marthrym]

6 minutes ago, renleech said:

 

I just love when people complain with their bellies full...

 

Depends on what is filling their bellies mate. And how it tastes going down.

I just love when people complain about people that complain...

[CloudCatcher]

2 hours ago, IceColdHawk said:

It is supposed to be harder because it's the latest quest.

By this logic, if DE continuously adds more grindwall/timewall/paywall to every new batch of released content, Warframe would eventually turn into one of those mobile games where the entire gameplay is literally just waiting for something else to happen, like Clash of Clans and those games. So no, new content isnt supposed to be harder to get than the previous new content. It can be, but that shouldnt be a standard

EDIT: didnt realise there were three pages to this thread. this post might be a little outdated/offtopic at this point whoops

Edited March 4, 2016 by CloudCatcher

[Circle_of_Psi]

So wait, how much Ducts does it cost?

 

I have plenty of nintan, tho credits might be a issue 

[CY13ERPUNK]

the 200 ducats price is definitely pretty 'ugh'

=/

but its for more DE special one-off fire-and-forget content, so once its done it will just join the growing graveyard of things that DE spends tons of time on but that the playerbase only sees for 10-15 mins =/

[Circle_of_Psi]

4 minutes ago, CY13ERPUNK said:

the 200 ducats price is definitely pretty 'ugh'

 

Really 200?, they shuold remove the ducet cost and jsut have credits 

[wtrmlnjuc]

200 ducats really aren't too hard to get once you've run the Void a few times, and Nitain isn't really that rare. There's alerts that happen every day for it in addition to sabs. 1 nitain is honestly so little. 6 hours is pretty standard for their heavier lore quests.

[IceColdHawk]

1 hour ago, CloudCatcher said:

By this logic, if DE continuously adds more grindwall/timewall/paywall to every new batch of released content, Warframe would eventually turn into one of those mobile games where the entire gameplay is literally just waiting for something else to happen, like Clash of Clans and those games. So no, new content isnt supposed to be harder to get than the previous new content. It can be, but that shouldnt be a standard

EDIT: didnt realise there were three pages to this thread. this post might be a little outdated/offtopic at this point whoops

Not because of it being new but rather because of it being more "endgame". Like, the first levels are easy to get while the last ones are harder, so you won't breeze through the story all that easy.

[BelovedLux]

14 hours ago, Cradicias said:

Copying this over from a post I made: My one negative critique would be that the Key for the new quest is... well, not super difficult to get, but much harder than previous keys. Previous keys required at most 2 argon crystals, some small amount of rare resources, and 10k credits. This one? Costs 50k credits just to buy it, plus the exorbitant price of 200 ducats (or 20 of the least rare prime parts you can farm up) then to actually BUILD it, it requires 1 of the rarest materials, nitain extract, which only comes around every so often and can not be farmed for like Argon Crystals. In my opinion,  this is the only (and HUGE) mistake that I've seen in this update.

Oh, yeah, and the key is bought from Baro (who's currently on Kronia relay, but again, is limited time only).

Nitain extract alerts come in 4 times a day. if you want to keep up with what alerts are in play while away from Warframe i recommend downloading a Warframe Alert App from either the App store or Play Store(whatever they are nowadays). as for the ducats they are easy to come around as are the credits as well. Nothing here seems "too hard" to achieve. However the quest being only available from Baro seems a bit... well.. idiotic.

[apcie]

21 hours ago, Cradicias said:

Again, not complaining, just stating it's a mistake. I myself already have the resources and built the key. I still feel it's a poor choice on their part.

its not a mistake in my eyes, the game need to have a *challenge* 2 ...

[Cradicias]

9 hours ago, NoirXeon said:

Nitain extract alerts come in 4 times a day. if you want to keep up with what alerts are in play while away from Warframe i recommend downloading a Warframe Alert App from either the App store or Play Store(whatever they are nowadays). as for the ducats they are easy to come around as are the credits as well. Nothing here seems "too hard" to achieve. However the quest being only available from Baro seems a bit... well.. idiotic.

Never said it was too hard, just more difficult to obtain than previous keys, thus breaking the trend they'd already set unnecessarily.

[Tesseract7777]

I don't see how this key is a big deal at all... imo it sounds like whining just to whine. 

Lots of warframes recently have been way, way, way more grindy to get than this one. 

 

Nezha, only from sorties, Ivara, tons of spy mission rng, Wukong and ages of nitain just to research, Chroma and his crazy build requirements, Equinox requiring eight parts and an absurd build time. 

We finally get another frame where we can buy and craft a key, do the quest and get ALL The pieces with no rng gating, and you guys want to complain? Are you bloody serious right now? 

 

And the nitain complaints can stop now and forever. They can be farmed anytime in sabotage caches so complaining about nitain is completely invalid now. 

 

How was this key an issue? An entire six hour build time... the horror /sarcasm. And two whole nitain? Oh noes... Seriously guys, find something actually worthwhile to complain about. 

 

We have been given one of the easiest frames to acquire in recent WF history... we should be encouraging them to continue going in this direction. Are people so spoiled that in a Free to play game, they are unhappy that without spending plat they have to wait six whole hours to let them start a quest, that gives something non f2p players are paying actual money for to support the game? 

Edited March 5, 2016 by Tesseract7777