Why do people ask for nerfs?

[B0N3M4N]

1 hour ago, Littleman88 said:

People ask for nerfs because they think something is overpowered and/OR because its presence trivialize everyone elses efforts.  If four Tenno enter a match and one is basically killing everything at the press of the button, the other three are going to be bored out of their minds.  This is a totally valid reason to call for a nerf.  If people are calling for a nerf because gun A is just the best thing ever, well, now they're just asking for power creep to get smashed down.  One hurts game play, the other is more subjective to "what harm does it do you if I have this gun?"

I'm of the opinion Warframe needs a stat crunch overall, not just taking the axe to a few weapons or frames.  I couldn't care less if the tonkor or Soma or what have you are the go to weapons - I have my Braton, and it works just fine on star chart missions.  I would prefer DE to create new enemies that weren't all about beating CC spam (nullifiers, really dull enemy otherwise) or requiring it (namely, bursas, since the things swivel to face lone Tenno too darn fast.)

This guy have got the point right here.

Because it's boring to being capable of pressing one button and clearing the entire map just because you can. Nothing should never ever get like this on ANY game, mainly because it'll ruin everything that holds the meaning of multiplayer: cooperation. Something that Warframe absolutely needs right now, and I think that we'll see something similar to being experimented by Steve on U19 recalling what he said on a tweet about "Damage and Enemies Balancing".

[(PSN)robotwars7]

nerfing is only done correctly when something is clearly Overpowered. in order for it to be TRULY OP, it CANNOT be countered, avoided or adapted to in any way, or without needing substantial, unwarranted effort on the victim's part. in the case of weapons, it's only TRULY OP if it's pretty much one-shotting everything at any level, regardless of health or Armour Values, or decimating them at a near instant speed through DPS.

the Tonkor's damage still falls off, just like any other weapon. and we need at least a few powerful weapons, or otherwise late Sorties and 40 min+ on T4 will become unbearable for most. the nerfs that I've seen more of go more like this:

"I don't like it because other people steal my kills with it and that's totally not fair waaaah I'm the special snowflake!"

rather than:

"I think x weapon might need toning down a little, as it is possible to make the game boringly easy with no challenge, perhaps if it's stats were reduced ever so slightly, it would provide an ample challenge for me while still being effective enough for endgame!"

one of the main reasons I don't want DE to nerf things though is because they go a bit overboard with it sometimes, like why did Saryn need to lose 50 base health? no reason whatsoever.

I'm all for a challenge, but the challenge should not come from trying to kill walking Tanks with pea-shooters. that's just frustrating.

 

[as3mbus]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

the Tonkor's damage still falls off, just like any other weapon. and we need at least a few powerful weapons, or otherwise late Sorties and 40 min+ on T4 will become unbearable

every wpn damage falls off Duh . . . .
but tonkor damage falls off is rly slow than any other explosive wpn in the game, and more importantly it does wide area damage and they doesnt harm you in any way,
if you hav an explosive like that im sure most ppl will use it for easier game
 

[sharkexpert12]

10 minutes ago, Trichouette said:

That's only because lvl 100+ enemies aren't balanced themselves.

Play with 4 corrosive projection against lvl 120 grineers, you'll cut them like butter.

The full game lack of balance, but people are asking for "nerf" or "buff" without considering the rest of the game.

 

I'm not even sure what your arguing for but to get back to your original point game balance is an over used term here Warframe attracts a lot of people there are the casuals and the hardcore. The 2 normally don't play the same games but warframe attracts both due to the game being rather simple while also having one of the most intense exponential scaling i have even seen. That is the main reason the whole Nerf[insert thing here] thing exists is because DE wants to be able to support both sides of the coin. There will always be weapons that are purely made to be fun and add new and interesting mechanics into the game and most of the cc related ones become top tier.But there are few that can actually dish out damage in high level environments. Even the most high damaging weapons will fall off eventually currently excal is in the category of high end mid game damage he can do stuff until raw damage just wont cut it after that blind is his best skill by a huge margin.

[(XBOX)TheboomDOOM]

Personally, I only see the matter of a nerf needed if your warframe is making the game unfun classic example MESA. But to get such weapons at the tonkor level where you even stand a chance of survive level 1000 you gotta really apply and forma your builds and this is an unfair situation to higher level people cause now someone such as myself 7 forma my tonkor and now DE going to nerf it and this punishes me really.

[10thdivine]

Honestly i dont understand why Tonkor doesnt have self damage when every other launcher has,thats the only nerf it needs.

[(XBOX)TheboomDOOM]

2 minutes ago, 10thdivine said:

Honestly i dont understand why Tonkor doesnt have self damage when every other launcher has,thats the only nerf it needs.

I would disagree with you completely because the tonkor doesn't self-damage that makes it a unique weapon in the launcher family and think about it you would die if you rocket jump the critical chance and damage are legendary. 

[10thdivine]

Lol no this makes it a weapon that is used by every damn noob and yes dying would make you think twice before blasting that ancient 1 meter in front of you,it would make it balanced

[10thdivine]

I feel you

[(XBOX)TheboomDOOM]

Yeah I See your Reasoning 

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

It's just the way the community is.

Splitting the Nerfers into legit and non-legit, here are the reasons:

 

Legit:

(a) The frame/weapon can be exploited in a way that completely trivialise the content.

eg. Weapon X was supposed to be a cannon but through certain techniques is able to shoot as fast as a machinegun but deal same damage as a cannon.

(b) The frame/weapon does not provide fun due to low player interactivity.

eg. Frame X has a skill that can kill everything by just pressing one button and not doing anything else. Player can simply stand still and just press the button without fear of death or any danger.

(c) The frame/weapon is overpowered and makes the endgame content seem pointless without any effort on the player.

eg. Weapon X can kill all enemies in sorties in one hit.

 

Non-legit:

(a) The frame/weapon is not being played by others the way I want.

eg. Frame X should not be played this way. That is the noob way. My way is the pro way.

(b) The frame/weapon is not fun and I have a better idea of how it will be fun for me.

eg. Weapons X should not deal this much damage because it's not fun in my opinion and my opinion is king.

(c) The frame/weapon is more powerful than my favourite frame/weapon.

eg. Frame X has more kills than my favourite Frame Y. I think I'm more pro because my frame is harder to use and Frame X should be nerfed because my word is king.

(d) Don't know the difference between powerful and overpowered.

eg. That frame can kill a level 100 bombard in 2 blows even though maxed out mods and lots of player interactivity is used. It's overpowered! It must be nerfed.

(e) Don't know what challenge really means.

eg. Challenge is when we make things hard for ourselves. We should have more bullet sponges; and enemies that neutralises us and prevent us from using our strongest abilities once in a while is not challenge.

Edited March 5, 2016 by OoKeNnEtHoO

[(XBOX)TheboomDOOM]

haha

[carnaga]

I'm puzzled with this whole "nerf" thing. You know, this is PvE game. We have conclave with different mechanics and here I understand the concept of nerfs but not in PvE.

But then, when I run a high tier mission against lvl 100+ enemies with a frame that is not in category of "cheesy" and I meet for example a valkyr player going on and on as a non-stop killing machine. Meanwhile I go through a-lot of tactics and strategies having fun with the challenge. And after the mission the valkyr player says that he has been playing the game for couple weeks and he feels the mission and the warframe is pure joke and easy -- I kinda start to understand what lies behind a nerf.

And what comes to kill or loot counts: for some players the stats and achievements and their player ability is measured in mission end screen. If one particular frame or weapon or sentinel gets constantly from a mission to mission a better score - which are not dependent of the player skills -- I can figure out that people start to talk about balance. (Eg. Carrier Wacuum nerf threads and so on).

But to come back to the PvE thing, about year ago I decided that I would not run those cheesy warframes and their cheesy builds. Running lvl 100+ Mobile Defense corpus sortie with blind mirage and EV trinity renders the game extremely boring. I play for entertainment and for fun. Not for camping and pressing monotonically few buttons. So in my case you could speak about "self inflected nerf". And anybody can do it in PvE  :) Thought I'm not forcing this to everyone. And this works in both direction: I don't like if I'm forced to play with a frame or build I dislike.

Edit: what I hate or dislike the most in Warframe is that you are "forced" or "courage'd" to run with specific frame and build to complete the mission. Try run with a saryn a Sortie 3 spy misson (without QT/Rage Naramon Focus etc.) and compare it with invisible loki ;)

Edited March 5, 2016 by carnaga

[Heatnix.]

The true answer that no one will give you is jealousy.

"I am getting so many kills! I am the best! my favorite warframe is the best!-- hey! that guy is killing more! imbalanced! nerf it now! devs are biased!!!"

[Specific.Zod]

Tonkor should be nerf. It is MR6 locked, but when you have it, you actually don't need anything else. it make the game boring. "because why do i need another gun when i can one-shot them with my tonkor?"

Either raise MR to 10.

Or fix that damage mutiplier.

It's just too overpowered for a gun that is only MR6 locked.

We have weapons locked at MR12 for a reason.

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

3 hours ago, Thural said:

the tonkor is never going to do full self damage, never ever.  The number of people who would riot over not being able to do trick shots would be too high.

You can actually use tonkor for mobility. I use it to get certain Hive and sabotage caches.

Generally I don't understand why would you want a nerf in PVE game. They just ruin viable choices. Synoid gammacor used to be an alternative to brakk. Kinda. Brakk still was better. Now it's trash and you should use brakk over it in 10 out of 10 cases. A lot of nerfs been really needless and did only harm.

[(PSN)wonderwoman814]

For the same reason people ask for buffs . Balance . Well majority of the time some people might have an agenda 

[(XBOX)TheboomDOOM]

On 3/5/2016 at 8:21 PM, Specific.Zod said:

Tonkor should be nerf. It is MR6 locked, but when you have it, you actually don't need anything else. it make the game boring. "because why do i need another gun when i can one-shot them with my tonkor?"

Either raise MR to 10.

Or fix that damage mutiplier.

It's just too overpowered for a gun that is only MR6 locked.

We have weapons locked at MR12 for a reason.

for one get your information right just because you never gone past 600 LVL enemies you gotta put time in the tonkor most tonkors are at best okay and second the tonkor is self-damage weapon it always takes 50 sheild away for rocket jump 

[.--Seiryu--.]

On ‎04‎/‎03‎/‎2016 at 7:34 AM, Littleman88 said:

People ask for nerfs because they think something is overpowered and/OR because its presence trivialize everyone elses efforts.  If four Tenno enter a match and one is basically killing everything at the press of the button, the other three are going to be bored out of their minds. 

Exactly this ^

[(PSN)OMGITSNUKERXD]

_{I've yet to understand it too.Like,Instead of asking for a nerf,why not ask for a buff to other stuff.}

[RX-3DR]

We always get mixed opinions on nerfs because of wild ideas on what the "end-game" is and what "necessary" is. 

Things like 2 hour Survivals and Sorties are things you do at the end-game, but they're not supposed to be a cake-walk just because you have Rank 30 gear with maxed out mods. Since DE has been adding things only to leave them as it is, there's a lot of mixed messages as to what the end-game is meant to be and where the line of difficulty is supposed to be drawn which is why an overhaul is necessary at this point.

[Thural]

3 hours ago, (XB1)spartanlord15 said:

the tonkor is self-damage weapon it always takes 50 sheild away for rocket jump 

compared to the penta, which takes several thousand health on self damage, 50 is nothing

[Currilicious]

On 3/5/2016 at 9:21 AM, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

"I don't like it because other people steal my kills with it and that's totally not fair waaaah I'm the special snowflake!"

rather than:

"I think x weapon might need toning down a little, as it is possible to make the game boringly easy with no challenge, perhaps if it's stats were reduced ever so slightly, it would provide an ample challenge for me while still being effective enough for endgame!"

 

So much this unfortunately.

There will always be a vocal minority that would disregard efficiency to be special and see any form of min-maxing as evil.

It's like someone bringing a spear to a rifle hunting trip and calls for rifles to be disallowed because "reasons" and holding a spear makes them special. I agree on the special part but my definition of special in that context may not be the same.

It's rather illogical really. If you want your favorite snowflake weapon to be viable, the obvious route would be a buff to it rather than a nerf to the alternatives. God forbid, the nerfhammer comes down and you're still stuck with a sub-optimal snowflake weapon, with no other alternatives, because they all suck equally now.

And, that's supposed to be fun?

Edited March 7, 2016 by Currilicious

[Deshiel]

There is something that you are going to learn about the other people around you. It is the fact that every single of us carries his/her own opinion.

For example. I like playing warframe without health & shield mods as I believe that they are useless in high level tilesets.

Some people call me stupid and some support the idea. Some even called me a pro because they admire my decision but they do not feal able to do it aswel.

So there you have it. No matter what you do, what you say, You always please one guy and disappoint the other. Always.

[EtherealShigure]

because lerf is love

nerf islyfe -_-