Should Valkyr's armor be nerfed?

[Senoinya]

4 minutes ago, Scandroid said:

Joined 13 days ago tries to balance the game

Beautiful, isn't it?

[Ibro156]

Just now, EmptyDevil said:

Personally i don't think Loki really needs a change. If they were to change Loki, i would want them to remove disarm animation from enemies that were already disarmed. The should also make invisibility use the following mechanic from Prowl:

- Firing non-silent weapons temporarily reveals Loki's location and reapplies his cloak when he stops.

The same could be done for Ash and Smoke Screen.

To be honest Loki is fine, its more to the AI not being great against Invisible warframes. Ivara invis allows her to move around with no duration but taking a hit on the movement speed. Ash has a shortest duration out of the three. He's job is too be the damage dealer and melee frame. He is AMAZING when used with Teleport build, you won't believe how fast I can get in and out when with Teleport and Smoke Screen. Smoke screen allows enemies being staggered and giving Ash too get out - it more of a panic button. All three of these frames are fine Ash is the Assassin, Loki is the Trickster and Ivara is the Huntress. Again, its the AI issue. I know Invis does not equal immunity, but the way of AI can't counter act these three frames are a quite a problem

[Stratego89]

17 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

Did you seriously go so far to call even Inaros OP?

 

Friend, he's pretty much on Valkyr levels of "cannot die, even if you try". That's OP in my book. But again, he's on probably the lowest end of the OP spectrum, and doesn't really require a rework in the short term. 

[CriticalFumble]

10 minutes ago, VoidNomade said:

As long as Valky is being locked out from "half" of the game nodes because of the meta (valk + def = no no) i don´t see a problem. Even in her best Meta, Surv nodes, i barley see more than one valky.

I think her niche is fine. Changing her would mean her meta would shift. I wouldn´t like to see that. And let´s be honest a change would mean Mesa 2.0 all over again.

 

So please, stay away from her.

Not all change is bad, if they adjusted her so she's actually more than the designated reviver in team play and gave her better other abilities I'd be all for it.  

An aggro pull and damage shift similar to Link would make Hysteria overall more effective independently, give her a chance in defense-type missions, and improve her utility in team play. 

And if they bring down the runaway enemy damage growth in damage 3.0, you might not even notice. 

[IceColdHawk]

2 minutes ago, Stratego89 said:

Friend, he's pretty much on Valkyr levels of "cannot die, even if you try". That's OP in my book. But again, he's on probably the lowest end of the OP spectrum, and doesn't really require a rework in the short term. 

Sortie Supra heroes might wanna have a word with you.

Btw, he's a CC/Tank. He literally can't deal any damage worth noting. Got some small cc here and there and is strong in surviving. That's all. Volt might be OP too then since he can be invincible when making a cage full of electric shields.

I suggest getting a new book.

[VoidNomade]

Just now, CriticalFumble said:

Not all change is bad, if they adjusted her so she's actually more than the designated reviver in team play and gave her better other abilities I'd be all for it.  

An aggro pull and damage shift similar to Link would make Hysteria overall more effective independently, give her a chance in defense-type missions, and improve her utility in team play. 

And if they bring down the runaway enemy damage growth in damage 3.0, you might not even notice. 

I already told you what i think about "not all change is bad" with a example where the change was not good. I think the same will happen to her so i don´t want it to be changed nor do i see ANY reason why it should be changed. The role she´s filling right now is fitting. Other roles can be filled by other frames and new frames. I don´t need her to be forcefully changed to work in defs.

[sotvrna]

1 hour ago, EmptyDevil said:

[...]

Even if enemy scaling was changed, Hysteria's invulnerability would still be cheap.

Valkyr has the potential to be so much more, but she has too many players holding her back with the desperate need of invulnerability.

I really have to agree with this. I think most valkyr players are really scared that hysteria will be nerfed instead of reworked/balanced, but seeing recent warframe reworks done by DE, I don't think they would simply remove Hysteria's invuln without completely revamping the whole kit to compensate.
Lots of great ideas have been exposed on this thread already, and there are definitely at least a couple of different ways to make Valk a far more enjoyable frame to play, with a higher skill ceiling without changing her "character".

[Chaosdreamer]

Why do you care about her armor? I mean is not like she had to press 4 to be immortal and not carring at all about armor right?

18 hours ago, Meneliki said:

I feel the need to weigh in on the whole Inaros vs. Valkyr situation.

Valkyr - straight up invul, until she runs out of energy or gets hit by nullifier. (God Mode)

Inaros - near invul until.... oh, right. End of mission. Inaros + Rage + Life Strike = basically broken. 

I've been playing Inaros for the last few days... recently been messing around with Life Strike.. wow. Any time he dips below 4k HP i activate life strike and top up. Inaros CANNOT die. and that's not on a timer. It also lets him use whatever weapon he wants, unlike valkyr who is reliant on her hysteria damage which falls off after a while.

Conclusion - Inaros' "demigod" survivability scales better than valkyr's "God" survivability.

 

Just my opinion.

Hey on his lore quest was'nt Inaros said to be Living god /king so I don't really see any issue with Inaros , btw you just forgot to say all hes skills is weak, yes he is some sort of immortal but he does not have any powers that destroy stuff (Eg: Saryn 1st skill ) or mag destroying stuff

[AutoPhox]

tl;dr

Her armor is fine, and it goes well with her warcry. Its the contradictory invulnerability of hysteria that is out of place. her 4 should be more damage oriented, while warcry buffs her defence/survivability.

[CriticalFumble]

20 minutes ago, VoidNomade said:

I already told you what i think about "not all change is bad" with a example where the change was not good. I think the same will happen to her so i don´t want it to be changed nor do i see ANY reason why it should be changed. The role she´s filling right now is fitting. Other roles can be filled by other frames and new frames. I don´t need her to be forcefully changed to work in defs.

"Don't touch my cheese"  Got it. 

Meanwhile, I'd like her to be more than a warframe equivalent noob toob.

[kebra]

19 hours ago, Gordon9106 said:

600 armor for a beserk frame,it is still too high. At least reduce it by 50 or a hundred.

Have you ever passed Saturn to ever ask for that? Also, if you nerf Valkyr's armor, you should take Inaros straight out of Warframe... and Trinity to... Zephyr and Mesa also...

Judging by the way the OP have put it; a short sentence that seems to have been written out of frustration; if I'd to guess I'd say that he probably had his butt kicked by a Valkyr in Conclave. ^^

[VoidNomade]

21 minutes ago, CriticalFumble said:

"Don't touch my cheese"  Got it. 

Meanwhile, I'd like her to be more than a warframe equivalent noob toob.

If noob toob is everything you see in her, well, that´s your decision not mine. :-)

[Stratego89]

51 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

Sortie Supra heroes might wanna have a word with you.

Btw, he's a CC/Tank. He literally can't deal any damage worth noting. Got some small cc here and there and is strong in surviving. That's all. Volt might be OP too then since he can be invincible when making a cage full of electric shields.

I suggest getting a new book.

Damage abilities are so pointless. We have guns for that. As long as you (and your objective) cannot die, you win. Also- volt? OP? You're... joking, right? Next to Frost he's the most balanced frame in the game... His shields do not stop melee attackers, and do not move with him. They do not block the AoE of explosives. They are a short term immobile solution to damage. Meanwhile hysteria travels with Valkyr and Inaros hardly needs his abilities to stay alive after the first 2 minutes of the game when your ult is charged up...

I will say this though, frankly- Inaros isn't what is broken. He's fine. What IS broken is how this game's lifesteal and energy gain operate. That being said- unless those major systems undergo changes he's personally displaying broken traits where others are not. Short term- patch Inaros. Long term- rework systems.

[IceColdHawk]

Just now, Stratego89 said:

Damage abilities are so pointless.

Equinox Maim isn't useless.  Not to mention exalted blade. Oh and Shield Polarize, how's it going? If you talk about embers fireball for example, well yeah. Low fixed damage abilities are never good. But you will need scaling damage to be able to get higher into the game.  

5 minutes ago, Stratego89 said:

I will say this though, frankly- Inaros isn't what is broken. He's fine. What IS broken is how this game's lifesteal and energy gain operate. That being said- unless those major systems undergo changes he's personally displaying broken traits where others are not. Short term- patch Inaros. Long term- rework systems.

I think i agree with you on inarus needing a patch.

He could really need some better scaling and more usefulness in his 2 and 3.

[P0TAT0CANN0N]

How about YOU get nerfed and see how much you like it!

[EmptyDevil]

1 hour ago, Valsako said:

Unfortunately, yes, you are. You keep claiming people are just looking for an argument with you for no good reason

No, i am not. You should look up what it means to play victim. If you're unable to move on with your life from someone's opinion and you continually pester them, you are looking for an argument. It's that simple. If i were playing victim, i'd be getting something out of the off topic distasteful remarks. 

1 hour ago, Valsako said:

anyone who disagrees with that statement is just mad because you want Valk's immortality gone even if the person makes it clear that they want it gone too.

There has not been an instance like this statement in the thread. What you said doesn't even remotely make sense. My statement/opinion is "Her armor is fine, but the invulnerability on Hysteria needs to go". So what exactly would a person be disagreeing with, if they also want the invulnerability to away? Do not fabricate BS to further your argument.

1 hour ago, Valsako said:

 But I'm done with this, because clearly you're incapable of letting any of it sink in and so it's pointless to even try. But let me make this clear: I have no problem with your opinion (despite you claiming I do, because victim mentality), and lastly, what previous Valkyr threads? I don't recall posting in a Valkyr thread in quite some time, and I definitely don't recall anything like this happening in those, but I'm definitely not denying it's possible because I end up arguing with people about their logic all the time. Could you please provide reference to back up your claim? Or you can just ignore this part of the post, that'd be perfectly fine too, because like I said, it's pointless. My replies aren't sinking in for you, and your responses aren't contributing anything at all to this topic nor what I'm saying to you. It's honestly better to just drop it at this point.

You're incapable of preventing your personal issues from dictating your responses. You made it very clear that you're looking to 'win' an argument with every post you've made so far. You also did the grand move of all immature argument posts. By saying things along the lines of:

15 hours ago, Valsako said:

If you truly don't want to argue, you'll stay true to that and not even respond to me. 

 

You decided to twist the words of me saying i don't want to debate Valkyr's Hysteria, into arguing/replying to people in general. Strawman at it's finest.

I'm also not going to waste my time to dig up old Valkyr threads for your previous petty replies.

You don't even have a legitimate reason to be arguing with me in the first place since you agree with my opinion. You claim it's because of how i present my opinion or something but my opinion is one simple sentence. Whatever you were seeing in it, is not there.

My opinion on the topic again:

"Her armor is fine, but the invulnerability on Hysteria needs to go"

Your real gripe is something else and that is probably my stance on the Hysteria topic at the time, not my opinion. Keep your personal baggage toward me out of the responses and stay on topic for once.

1 hour ago, Valsako said:

But on topic, she does need a new ability. Like I said, Ripline is useless, and Paralysis is basically just another "1", she doesn't need two "1s", and she doesn't need a useless ability. Why should Valkyr be the only frame with two "1"-esque abilities? You are correct that she can be fixed with simple tweaks, but technically, Excalibur could have been fixed with just tweaks too, but It doesn't mean his full rework wasn't the better way to fix him. Simple tweaks might be better for frames like Nyx that only really have one problem (Psychic Bolts), but Valkyr has a lot of issues, as I noted.

She doesn't need a new ability, you want a new one. Ripline could be change to have an AoE like Equinox's Rest and Ivara Sleep Arrow. It would also her to pull several enemies at once for more CC. Warcry could be made into a recastable ability and that would be a massive buff itself. Paralysis could execute faster with Warcry and be changed into an aura that procs enemies with electric procs, stuns them, and makes them vulnerable to finisher for it's duration. Hysteria could at as a Quick Thinking while active by preventing Valkyr from dropping below 2 health. It could also increase her movement speed and add some of the damage she takes to her claw base damage.

Excalibur was in a much worse spot than Valkyr - tweaks wouldn't have cut it for him. Right now, he needs Exalted Blade wave distance to be determined by his combos IMO.

[EmptyDevil]

1 hour ago, Ibro156 said:

To be honest Loki is fine, its more to the AI not being great against Invisible warframes. Ivara invis allows her to move around with no duration but taking a hit on the movement speed. Ash has a shortest duration out of the three. He's job is too be the damage dealer and melee frame. He is AMAZING when used with Teleport build, you won't believe how fast I can get in and out when with Teleport and Smoke Screen. Smoke screen allows enemies being staggered and giving Ash too get out - it more of a panic button. All three of these frames are fine Ash is the Assassin, Loki is the Trickster and Ivara is the Huntress. Again, its the AI issue. I know Invis does not equal immunity, but the way of AI can't counter act these three frames are a quite a problem

We'll probably see more counters for invisible frames if Kavat handlers become more widespread. Corpus doesn't need one imo because of their nullifiers. Infested and maybe Sentients are the ones in need now.

56 minutes ago, AntifaHooligan said:

I really have to agree with this. I think most valkyr players are really scared that hysteria will be nerfed instead of reworked/balanced, but seeing recent warframe reworks done by DE, I don't think they would simply remove Hysteria's invuln without completely revamping the whole kit to compensate.
Lots of great ideas have been exposed on this thread already, and there are definitely at least a couple of different ways to make Valk a far more enjoyable frame to play, with a higher skill ceiling without changing her "character".

DE definitely wouldn't just remove Hysteria's invulnerability without making her amazing. It's one of the things i'm hoping for because i know she will be so badass if it happens. Right now, i just use her for radiation survival sorties and a 15+ minutes Hysteria build to avoid friendly fire.

[Stoner]

God... another thread about Valk which turns to a "REMOVE HYSTERIA U STOOPID" thread. Growing tired, slowly...

DE should create a section in the forums just for this. 

Edited March 14, 2016 by Stoner74

[Senoinya]

1 hour ago, EmptyDevil said:

No, i am not. You should look up what it means to play victim. If you're unable to move on with your life from someone's opinion and you continually pester them, you are looking for an argument. It's that simple. If i were playing victim, i'd be getting something out of the off topic distasteful remarks. 

There has not been an instance like this statement in the thread. What you said doesn't even remotely make sense. My statement/opinion is "Her armor is fine, but the invulnerability on Hysteria needs to go". So what exactly would a person be disagreeing with, if they also want the invulnerability to away? Do not fabricate BS to further your argument.

You're incapable of preventing your personal issues from dictating your responses. You made it very clear that you're looking to 'win' an argument with every post you've made so far. You also did the grand move of all immature argument posts. By saying things along the lines of:

 

You decided to twist the words of me saying i don't want to debate Valkyr's Hysteria, into arguing/replying to people in general. Strawman at it's finest.

I'm also not going to waste my time to dig up old Valkyr threads for your previous petty replies.

You don't even have a legitimate reason to be arguing with me in the first place since you agree with my opinion. You claim it's because of how i present my opinion or something but my opinion is one simple sentence. Whatever you were seeing in it, is not there.

My opinion on the topic again:

"Her armor is fine, but the invulnerability on Hysteria needs to go"

Your real gripe is something else and that is probably my stance on the Hysteria topic at the time, not my opinion. Keep your personal baggage toward me out of the responses and stay on topic for once.

She doesn't need a new ability, you want a new one. Ripline could be change to have an AoE like Equinox's Rest and Ivara Sleep Arrow. It would also her to pull several enemies at once for more CC. Warcry could be made into a recastable ability and that would be a massive buff itself. Paralysis could execute faster with Warcry and be changed into an aura that procs enemies with electric procs, stuns them, and makes them vulnerable to finisher for it's duration. Hysteria could at as a Quick Thinking while active by preventing Valkyr from dropping below 2 health. It could also increase her movement speed and add some of the damage she takes to her claw base damage.

Excalibur was in a much worse spot than Valkyr - tweaks wouldn't have cut it for him. Right now, he needs Exalted Blade wave distance to be determined by his combos IMO.

Okay, I was going to drop this. Even said it was pointless. What do you do? You write your longest response yet. In fact, you were even more foolish in this one than your previous replies. That may very well be worthy of a medal, in fact. That said, my response to what you said is quite long, and I don't want to spam this topic, so I'll put my response away in a spoiler so that anyone who isn't interested doesn't have to see it. I suggest you do the same if you insist on replying to me again on this matter that I already stated is going nowhere. Plus, this is really a matter between me and you, nobody else should have to see text walls they didn't come here to see. In fact, if this keeps going, I suggest you take this to PMs with me so it's completely out of the topic.

"No, i am not. You should look up what it means to play victim. If you're unable to move on with your life from someone's opinion and you continually pester them, you are looking for an argument. It's that simple. If i were playing victim, i'd be getting something out of the off topic distasteful remarks."

I think you should. Playing victim is when you pretend people are against you for something just so you can feel like people are against you just to be against you for no good reason. In this case, you posted your opinion on this whole matter, then you tell people not to argue it, despite the fact that you're doing everything to open yourself to arguments. Then when people do argue with your points, you go "I told you not to argue with me! Why are you arguing with me? You just want to argue!". Then when people point out that what you're saying is nonsense because telling people not to argue with you when you're stating your views on a subject that is being argued about, you go ahead and claim those people are just mad because of your opinion.

But my words are pointless on you. So maybe your own will do the trick, hm?

"There has not been an instance like this statement in the thread. What you said doesn't even remotely make sense. My statement/opinion is "Her armor is fine, but the invulnerability on Hysteria needs to go"."

Never been an instance where somebody made it clear that they agree with you, or never been an instance in which you said that? In either case, you're lying. Here's each instance where I made it clear I agree with you or otherwise pointed out prior lack of stating I disagree with you:

"Claim this is all because I want Valkyr's immortality to stay despite me never stating an opinion on that one way or the other?"

"I got upset about your opinion...? When? I said nothing about your opinion one way or the other."

"I don't care about your opinion. In fact, I actually agree with you that Valkyr's near-permanent immortality is pretty stupid because immortality at all in and of itself just shouldn't be a thing in a game where you're supposed to be offered a challenge."

"I don't think you even realize the critical flaw here, which is the fact that your "I'm a victim" act is so obnoxious that even someone who agrees with you will still dislike what you have to say simply because of how you choose to say it. "

*insert suggestion for a fix that includes removal of the immortality*

 

Here's each instance where you claim the people arguing against you are just doing it because they're mad about your opinion:

"It's pretty sad. I already have several people quoting me just looking for an argument and/or warning points - just because i think Hysteria needs the invulnerability removed. "

"Quit complaining because YOU want to argue."

"You got that upset about my opinion"

"You just didn't like the opinion"

Every time someone argues with you, or says anything negative about you, immediately it must be because they're just mad because you expressed your opinion. Oh my, what a terrible world we live in with such mean, awful people that just want to seek out and be mean to poor lil' ol' you.

But I find your question at the end of this line funny where you ask: "So what exactly would a person be disagreeing with, if they also want the invulnerability to away? Do not fabricate BS to further your argument." because that's what I've been wondering this entire time you've been claiming I just disagree with you when I said I want the invulnerability to go away. So I'm glad we're finally making progress!

 

"You're incapable of preventing your personal issues from dictating your responses. You made it very clear that you're looking to 'win' an argument with every post you've made so far."

What personal issues? Ooooh, you must mean my lack of tolerance for ignorant and naive behavior. Yeah, sorry about that, it's kind of a thing most people have. But yes, I'm definitely just here to win an argument, and your lines like this:

"Why would anyone want Warcry replaced with damage reduction if she has Hysteria's invulnerability? That would be the most redundant and unneeded change. Warcry already boosts armor, attack speed, and reduces enemy speed. "

This:

"You clearly don't know the definition of 'debate' then. Here is the definition:"

This:

"Your examples are poor comparisons to Hysteria's invulnerability for a number of reasons, here is why: "

And this:

"I'm playing victim? Don't project your personal issues onto me. You made that apparent with your ignorant brain-cell-killing feminist remark. It's quite sad that you felt the need to go out of your way for something like that - it's childish. You just didn't like the opinion."

Are definitely not incidents in which you tried to win an argument. Because you're clearly at an intellectual level beyond winning arguments. All hail you.

 

"You decided to twist the words of me saying i don't want to debate Valkyr's Hysteria, into arguing/replying to people in general. Strawman at it's finest. "

Oh, I'm sorry then, I must have misunderstood when you said again and again that you didn't want to argue. See, I assumed you wanted to avoid all arguments. Now it makes sense why you keep replying to me again and again on this matter. So you're okay with arguments, just not if those arguments are actually relevant to the topic or to do with your opinion on that topic? Okay, thanks, glad to know we're forming an understanding.

 

"I'm also not going to waste my time to dig up old Valkyr threads for your previous petty replies."

So you'll mention it, but you won't actually back it up with anything? Well, that's that.

 

"You don't even have a legitimate reason to be arguing with me in the first place since you agree with my opinion. You claim it's because of how i present my opinion or something but my opinion is one simple sentence. Whatever you were seeing in it, is not there. "

Yep, this:

"I disagree and i'm not interested in debating."

This:

"Why would anyone want Warcry replaced with damage reduction if she has Hysteria's invulnerability? That would be the most redundant and unneeded change. Warcry already boosts armor, attack speed, and reduces enemy speed.

Again, not interested in debating. Don't waste your time."

This:

"Like i said, i'm not going to debate and that is that. Quit being a child about it. "

This:

"It's pretty sad. I already have several people quoting me just looking for an argument and/or warning points - just because i think Hysteria needs the invulnerability removed."

This:

"It makes perfect sense. I state my opinion on the subject and that is that. Quit complaining because YOU want to argue. What you're doing now is what is dumb. "

And this:

"I'm allowed to share my opinion on the forums like everyone else - try not letting it affect you so much instead. "

Are all in my imagination. Clearly I am just going insane. You definitely never said any of these things. You certainly didn't come here and post your opinion then act like nobody has the right to argue your points... Nope!

 

"Your real gripe is something else and that is probably my stance on the Hysteria topic at the time"

You mean the one I agree with? Or do you mean your stance on this topic in particular where you didn't want to argue? If the latter, then I already explained that.

"not my opinion. Keep your personal baggage toward me out of the responses and stay on topic for once. "

Says the one who keeps going on about this after I said it was a good time to just drop the subject because it was clearly going nowhere. I suggest you let this argument here just die, because you're really getting nothing out of it. You're not looking smarter than me, you're far from winning the argument, you won't get the last word, and you don't seem to enjoy it. So what do you get out of it? All it's doing is making you look worse.

 

Now then, onto your on-topic response:

"She doesn't need a new ability, you want a new one. Ripline could be change to have an AoE like Equinox's Rest and Ivara Sleep Arrow. It would also her to pull several enemies at once for more CC. Warcry could be made into a recastable ability and that would be a massive buff itself. Paralysis could execute faster with Warcry and be changed into an aura that procs enemies with electric procs, stuns them, and makes them vulnerable to finisher for it's duration. Hysteria could at as a Quick Thinking while active by preventing Valkyr from dropping below 2 health. It could also increase her movement speed and add some of the damage she takes to her claw base damage.

Excalibur was in a much worse spot than Valkyr - tweaks wouldn't have cut it for him. Right now, he needs Exalted Blade wave distance to be determined by his combos IMO."

Ripline could do that, but would that fit Valkyr's kit? Valkyr is all about rushing people and beating them up, not whipping people and standing back. Ripline is almost entirely useless in actual Berserker gameplay, even with your suggested modifications for it. If Ripline fit her playstyle, then I wouldn't have suggested replacing it in the first place. Warcry being able to be recast would also be nice, this suggestion isn't bad. Your Paralysis suggestion is also good. While I don't mind your Hysteria idea, I feel like what I suggested would offer a bit more fun gameplay, in which you can still die, but the damage you take slowly makes you tougher, but you have to kill to keep yourself alive and also to keep your claw damage multiplied for maximum effect. Perhaps also have it drain more energy the longer you go without killing anything? That way, her ability demands you focus on constantly attacking enemies, and it would discourage just having the ability active 24/7 because you'd only want it on when there's enemies nearby for you to kill.

As for Excal being in a worse spot than Valk... You're right, yet not right. Allow me to explain: If you took away Valkyr's hysteria right now, or just nerfed it significantly, she'd be just as bad as Excalibur was. Excalibur pre-rework had two abilities that were "1"-esque (slash dash and super jump). Super jump was fairly useless and didn't fit his kit, just like Ripline. Radial blind was fairly useful but didn't really compensate for the rest of it, just like Warcry. Slash Dash was decent, but still could use some improvements, just like Paralysis (which I feel should become her 1). The only difference is that Radial Javelin was reduced to being a fairly useless 4, compared to Hysteria which is arguably too good. So you're right, because Hysteria means she's not quite as bad as Excal was, but you're also not right because Hysteria has its own set of issues on the opposite side of things, and the rest of her kit is in the same situation old Excal was. I do agree about the EB distance, though.

[Stratego89]

2 hours ago, IceColdHawk said:

Equinox Maim isn't useless.  Not to mention exalted blade. Oh and Shield Polarize, how's it going? If you talk about embers fireball for example, well yeah. Low fixed damage abilities are never good. But you will need scaling damage to be able to get higher into the game.  

I think i agree with you on inarus needing a patch.

He could really need some better scaling and more usefulness in his 2 and 3.

Maim has CC in it- ofc it's not useless. Exalted blade isn't useless- it's OP to the point where it makes everything else useless. Shield polarize is only useful on one faction and I could just as easily use magnetic procs or shield disruption aura to achieve near the same affect. Scaling damage does not exist- these abilities are poorly named. Their damage does not scale- their damage takes mods into account- and then they always end up so OP that it makes everything else pointless unless they put a high amount of energy drain on it to balance it (ie Artemis Bow) and then players may as well once again use their guns that do not take energy except on those really tough targets. All your arguments fall apart for "damage abilities are not pointless. Which btw let me remind you is what I said- pointless, not useless. They have a use- killing stuff. But that use is pointless when your guns do the same thing.

Good to hear. He definitely needs a change to how his sand shadows are made. Late game it's just way too impractical.

[IceColdHawk]

10 minutes ago, Stratego89 said:

Shield polarize is only useful on one faction and I could just as easily use magnetic procs or shield disruption aura to achieve near the same affect.

Spoiler

I don't think so.

10 minutes ago, Stratego89 said:

Maim has CC in it- ofc it's not useless

What CC? No, seriously i don't know. My maim does no CC. Now please don't say it's a CC ability because of it's short one-time slash proc stun. Because just no.

10 minutes ago, Stratego89 said:

Exalted blade isn't useless- it's OP to the point where it makes everything else useless.

Chroma disagrees.

10 minutes ago, Stratego89 said:

unless they put a high amount of energy drain on it to balance it (ie Artemis Bow)

Artemis Bow and high energy drain? Uhm, ivara players? Can anyone confirm this? Last time i played ivara i could shoot infinite arrows.

10 minutes ago, Stratego89 said:

Which btw let me remind you is what I said- pointless, not useless. They have a use- killing stuff. But that use is pointless when your guns do the same thing.

It's like saying CC is pointless because blast procs are achieving the same thing. Ability damage should always be stronger. Look at this, you are paying energy to deal enhanced damage.

Edited March 14, 2016 by IceColdHawk

[Stratego89]

7 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

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I don't think so.

What CC? No, seriously i don't know. My maim does no CC. Now please don't say it's a CC ability because of it's short one-time slash proc stun. Because just no.

Chroma disagrees.

Artemis Bow and high energy drain? Uhm, ivara players? Can anyone confirm this? Last time i played ivara i could shoot infinite arrows.

It's like saying CC is pointless because blast procs are achieving the same thing. Ability damage should always be stronger. Look at this, you are paying energy to deal enhanced damage.

5 second long stun is short? Didn't know.

Chroma doesn't have exalted blade, now does he? (still makes chroma obsolete if there's an excal in the squad).

Artemis Bow drains energy for every shot you take. If you've modded for max efficiency ofc you're going to be able to put out a lot of them- but the negative duration from fleeting is going to hurt your other skills. I've never heard of anyone that plays Ivara for her bow. Anyone.

Uhm, not really. Status is a % chance based thing- CC skills are a 100% of the time thing.

Yes. Paying energy- that we have limitless amounts of because getting energy in this game is not even something to think about. Zenurik passive. Energy restores. Energy Vampire. Energy Siphon. Sahasa Kubrows. Rage. Seriously? "paying energy". Energy isn't even a resource in warframe at this point mate.

[Senoinya]

12 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

Artemis Bow and high energy drain? Uhm, ivara players? Can anyone confirm this? Last time i played ivara i could shoot infinite arrows.

I play Ivara all the time, I can confirm that Artemis Bow does not have a large drain. I spam it all the time and never have energy issues.

[Senoinya]

2 minutes ago, Stratego89 said:

Artemis Bow drains energy for every shot you take. If you've modded for max efficiency ofc you're going to be able to put out a lot of them- but the negative duration from fleeting is going to hurt your other skills. I've never heard of anyone that plays Ivara for her bow. Anyone.

I have a build specifically for using her bow. I use it all the time to very great effect. It doesn't hurt her other abilities as much as you may think to have max efficiency either.

[Cyonan]

Valkyr being one of my favourite frames, the problem I see with her is that most units can't do a damn thing about her immortality and the few units that can simply just aren't fun to fight against.

It's not a case of I'm simply just weak to them, but their mechanics are designed in such a way that they feel more like I'm being punished because I like Valkyr than a unit that I need to be careful about engaging because they're strong against me. Enemies like the Maniac can purge Hysteria and pounce me at the same time and kill me while pinned down.

As for Ivara, playing her in void defense missions last night I didn't have energy problems spamming Artemis Bow even without Fleeting Expertise and plenty of use of Sleeping Arrow for CC in the later waves. Having Trinity around for EV meant only dropping the bow for like 10-15 seconds so I could regenerate my energy every couple of waves.