Do you think that balance is possible with the current state of warframe.

[Luther848]

Do you feel that there is anything that DE can do that will "balance" the game or do you think we've gone too far to ever hope to balance the game.

I personally believe that if we are ever to achieve balance DE will have to create another version of Warframe that's a couple months behind but has everything balanced. That way we have silly Godlike Tenno Action and a Balanced Game for those who want it. 

What I mean by Balance: No more press 4 to win. No more infinite energy. No more having to have cheese tactics to deal with cheese enemies. No more enemies who are filled with cheese to deal with all the Tenno Cheese. Fair Enemy Scaling. A solid progression system so that you progressively get stronger instead of getting some specific weapons and mods and  the game suddenly turning to easy mode.

Edited March 16, 2016 by Luther848
Clarification

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

I'm not really sure what your getting at, but "balance" is one of those words in the same category as 'never'.

[CapnFusterCluck]

I feel that the topic of balance regarding PvE games is a bit tricky.

...
 

Balance in general is hard to achieve. 

[Misgenesis]

Sure, but its a whole major updates worth of work. Which wont happen. Which leads to more content being added to a messy foundation.

[Ognj]

Balancing a game is probably the most difficult aspect of the game design. You can make game balanced easily by having no variety and everyone having identical, or try to balance with variety and when you add more and more content it is getting more difficult to balance out the old content since it gets sort of thrown behind.

Warframe's main thing is player diversity with weapons and frames. Balancing all of them would need serious stop in new content development which is never profitable for f2p title in order to make MR, weapon  / frame balancing as well as tweaking AI and lots of other stuff.

I don't think we will ever see such a massive change, but we may see some small specific tweaks so play with what you want and switch loadouts.

Edited March 16, 2016 by Ognj

[Dextral]

well you could balance it you just need to find the centre of mass and then it will balance perfectly when not accounting for other factors such as wind

[Luther848]

3 minutes ago, Dextral said:

well you could balance it you just need to find the centre of mass and then it will balance perfectly when not accounting for other factors such as wind

I could settle for this.

[shut]

I'm not really leaning one way or the other at the moment. When Damage 3.0 hits, we'll have a better idea of whether the devs will ever be able to achieve a more balanced PVE experience for the game.

[Littlerift]

Variety and balance almost always have an inverse correlation. We should of course try to make every frame and weapon as viable and interesting as possible, but I don't think we'll ever end up in a position where there isn't a meta.

[Lijka]

Warframe is a game that constantly changes. Sometimes more sucessfuly than other times DE continuously attempts to improve the gameplay.

It does not have to be one major update to change things a lot but a stream of lesser ones.

 

Edited March 16, 2016 by Lijka

[(PSN)Mordred_Tumultu]

Depends on what one means by balanced. If you mean everything performs roughly the same, then no I don't think it will be that, nor do I ever want any game to be that. It would stop being fun. If you mean make it so that "end-game" doesn't mean getting one-shot on a regular basis and enemies aren't bullet-sponges, then yes, I think it's possible. It all has to start with enemy scaling, really. With the current scenario, there's a very selective list of gear and frames viable for end-game content, because other things just can't keep up. Change the scaling, and then you can bring everything else in line with that.

[AdunSaveMe]

Enemies need to be reworked. Scaling needs to change. Weapons and mods need to change. Warframes need to change.

And they all need to change at once. It's possible, but it's a massive undertaking, but if they don't do any of it then it's just building on a broken foundation. As long as the most basic aspects of the game are flawed they can only really release things that are just as broken.

Edited March 16, 2016 by AdunSaveMe

[Senoinya]

[(PSN)KikoEschobar]

1 hour ago, Luther848 said:

Do you feel that there is anything that DE can do that will "balance" the game or do you think we've gone too far to ever hope to balance the game.

I personally believe that if we are ever to achieve balance DE will have to create another version of Warframe that's a couple months behind but has everything balanced. That way we have silly Godlike Tenno Action and a Balanced Game for those who want it. 

What I mean by Balance: No more press 4 to win. No more infinite energy. No more having to have cheese tactics to deal with cheese enemies. No more enemies who are filled with cheese to deal with all the Tenno Cheese. Fair Enemy Scaling. A solid progression system so that you progressively get stronger instead of getting some specific weapons and mods and  the game suddenly turning to easy mode.

So basically.... you want Destiny with ninja?

Seriously I have no idea why people can't make up their minds about what they want in a game. You want everything to be challenging.... but you don't want enemies to be too difficult. You want every weapon to be on equal footing.... but  new content has interesting at the same time. This isn't a AAA title where there are thousands of employees on staff it is a f2p game.

Idk why this term "balance" holds such weight with  people because it's a very vague and relatively term used by a select few to get things they want in a game nothing more, nothing less.

Edited March 16, 2016 by (PS4)KikoEschobar

[shut]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)KikoEschobar said:

You want everything to be challenging.... but you don't want enemies to be too difficult. You want every weapon to be on equal footing.... but make new content interesting at the same time.

You're a man of extremes, I see.

There's a comfortable middle ground for those things that we're hoping WF can one day achieve.

Edited March 16, 2016 by SortaRandom

[Magicfingers]

there is no way to balance the game because what you may consider balanced might be considered totally unbalanced by someone else. every ones idea of balance is different so it will never happen.

[AdunSaveMe]

15 minutes ago, (PS4)KikoEschobar said:

So basically.... you want Destiny with ninja?

Seriously I have no idea why people can't make up their minds about what they want in a game. You want everything to be challenging.... but you don't want enemies to be too difficult. You want every weapon to be on equal footing.... but  new content has interesting at the same time. This isn't a AAA title where there are thousands of employees on staff it is a f2p game.

Literally none of that is what he said.

[AdunSaveMe]

5 minutes ago, Magicfingers said:

there is no way to balance the game because what you may consider balanced might be considered totally unbalanced by someone else. every ones idea of balance is different so it will never happen.

This may be one of the most ridiculous things I've heard all year.

[(PSN)KikoEschobar]

13 minutes ago, SortaRandom said:

You're a man of extremes, I see.

There's a middle ground for those things that we hope that WF can one day achieve.

There isn't. This isn't a Democratic relationship between DE and the community and you know this. They make the rules of engagement, we follow, period. No matter how many of these threads pop up, if the image of balance projected by what OP wanted doesn't match the developers (which by all indication is in fact the case) nothing will come about. A perfect example is Limbo and all of his faults and how they handle them. There have to be hundreds of those "buff Limbo" threads, but they have yet to address any of them. In fact, they have gone about nerfing him more frequently than addressing his kit. 

My point in all that being, no amount of these "balance" threads will amount to anything if DE doesn't see the value in the changes.

Edited March 16, 2016 by (PS4)KikoEschobar

[--Q--uaint]

1 hour ago, Luther848 said:

create another version of Warframe that's a couple months behind but has everything balanced. That way we have silly Godlike Tenno Action and a Balanced Game for those who want it. 

If they gave us modding tools, that would probably happen on its own.

[Shreiko]

No I have no faith in DE whatsoever in this regard. Hopefully they give me reason to doubt my convictions which they have reaffirmed time and time again. Examples of the times when DE cleared doubts from my mind in regard to their ability to balance was the focus system, status procs, and various enemy additions and attacks. So just to restate what I've implied already in simpler terms, DE is bad at balance, very bad, exceedingly so.

Hoping the team gets it's S#&$ together on this front and fixes a lot of BS in the game.

[shut]

12 minutes ago, (PS4)KikoEschobar said:

My point in all that being, no amount of these "balance"threads will amount to anything if DE doesn't see the value in the changes.

Don't get me wrong, I totally agree with concerns that the devs either can't or won't balance certain frames/items/enemies in the ways that we'd like to see them balanced. At least, not for a painfully long time, since they like to hold off balance tweaks in favor of addressing a crapton of issues at once in gigantic overhaul updates.

My point, though, is that these things can be balanced, at least to a reasonable level. The devs see the feedback. They know what we want. But, like you said, it's just a question of whether the devs will actually implement these balance changes. And I get that it's a big "if", and that balance passes are already few and far in between, but there's little denying that the balance passes that the devs already implemented (even if imperfect) haven't moved the game in a significantly better direction.

Edited March 16, 2016 by SortaRandom

[--Nef-Anyo--]

You cannot balance WF until you fix the broken scaling in the game. Fix that then you can deal with the other issues. 

[(PSN)KikoEschobar]

15 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

none of that is what he said.

It was a generalization of many of these threads not OP's necessarily.

 

[AdunSaveMe]

1 minute ago, (PS4)KikoEschobar said:

It was a generalization of many of these threads not OP's necessarily.

 

Must be why he specified 'you' in response to OP then listed a bunch of things that don't apply to this thread at all.