(Resolved) Issue with Steam Tennogen skins on Prime frames

[Geraion]

I personally like the Prime bits...maybe make them add-able as auxillaries?

 

I mean, primed frames looks different for a reason, so why just up and remove that as even an option for players that specifically likes a tennogen skin because it compliments the Prime parts on a frame more so than the vanilla model?

Edited January 5, 2017 by Geraion

[Plasma_Panda]

5 minutes ago, Putrid_Idiot said:

OMG THEY FINALLY DID SOMETHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NOT THE BEST SOLUTION BUT I WILL TAKE IT!!!!!!!

why settle? so they can continue their habit of fixing half of a problem instead of the full one?

[tsubasakuroi]

I can actually use skins on Nova Prime without resorting to chest armor awkwardly trying to cover stuff up. Won't have to worry at all about the inevitable Zephyr Prime being completely incompatible with Hagoromo skin either given how terribly more recent Primes tend to go with alternate skins.

On the other hand, I'm disappointed for my Nyx Prime. I personally loved the Athena skin and Prime parts together.

Pity the toggle dream is dead though since that was the ideal solution to all this.

[ACorpse]

3 hours ago, [DE]Taylor said:

Um, my name is Taylor. But yw.

Oh, well thanks Tyler.

[EthosP]

So, why is this okay to do, but changing the cost of resources for a weapon in the dojo not? 

 Not changing the subject, but I feel like these are very similar situations with opposite outcomes.

I for one really love the look of the Saryn Graxx skin on the Prime version. In fact I love most of the looks of the tennogen skins on Prime Warframes, instead of the regular version. In some cases the Prime parts add a layer of complexity missing from the base that I personally enjoy. There are a few of those skins I would have never bought without the prime parts. 

Guess you just can't please everyone I suppose. 

Edited January 5, 2017 by EthosP

[BloodKitten]

im honestly a bit put off from prime frames when trying to use tennogen, or other skins, primes always have additions that you cant get rid of when using a skin, let's take nyx and graxx skin for example.

here is how the graxx skin supposed to look.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=834853431

 

and here is how it looks on the prime veriant.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=834853499

 

as you can see, there are metalic accessories on the torso, legs, and more metals on the back then normally since they are part of the prime frame.

its not just with nyx, other prime frames like mag have prime shoulder pads and floating objects at the hip area, even with skin that change the base model.

other frames have or will have simular issues with body skins/models, its something that needs to be adressed.

why not simply add a button to hide the prime parts, when you are using a skin that isent for prime frames? or just have the skin to force the frame visual into the non prime veriant when equipped, would solve it for fashion frame players.

just a thought/request.

[Putrid_Idiot]

14 minutes ago, Plasma_Panda said:

why settle? so they can continue their habit of fixing half of a problem instead of the full one?

because at this point, i am ATLEAST getting what i paid for, and that is a good minimum.
extra credit would be to switch between vanilla and primed models via a toggle.
i will miss my shiny ember graxx, but with her glitched out legs out and valkyr & saryn & nyx now not unbearable to look i think the trade off is in the purchaser's favor.
now if faven wants to make us some PRIMED GRAXX, i would happily buy those skins as well.
but if i'm being canon and lore conscious, there isn't such a thing as graxx prime. only true orokin frames can be primed. and no self respecting orokin encrusted frame would ever fraternize with grineer scum.

[Rhundis]

Well luckily frost prime has all his bling in his helmet. So as long as I can still equip the prime helm separate from the body I'm good.

[Melos-mevim]

they are making skins now use the default frame models

[Ryujin]

 

[Paroxen]

4 hours ago, [DE]Taylor said:

Hey Tenno!

In honour of the hard work that our creators have put into their TennoGen creations, we are changing Skins to use the original models for Prime Warframes to prevent any unwanted clipping or concealment of textures. This is an all or nothing process due to technical limitations, so all TennoGen Skins will get this treatment.

Thank you all for your feedback and patience on this matter.

Can I have a refund then?

I actually liked how they looked with the Prime bits

[Dovahheim]

20 minutes ago, EthosP said:

So, why is this okay to do, but changing the cost of resources for a weapon in the dojo not? 

 Not changing the subject, but I feel like these are very similar situations with opposite outcomes.

I for one really love the look of the Saryn Graxx skin on the Prime version. In fact I love most of the looks of the tennogen skins on Prime Warframes, instead of the regular version. In some cases the Prime parts add a layer of complexity missing from the base that I personally enjoy. There are a few of those skins I would have never bought without the prime parts. 

Guess you just can't please everyone I suppose. 

But they can please everyone. They just have to allow you to toggle.

[EthosP]

3 minutes ago, Dovahheim said:

But they can please everyone. They just have to allow you to toggle.

Yes, I know. That's the ideal. Safe to say I'm not too happy about this change. 

[NeithanDiniem]

I find that highly disappointing considering there were several tennogen skins that showed prime bits that I preferred. Now people will be requesting tennogen skins made with the primes in mind, or if there are any prime specific skins there will be people complaining that they cant get that skin on the non prime. Sounds like a bit of a mess is coming.

[Seratuhlis]

5 hours ago, [DE]Taylor said:

Hey Tenno!

In honour of the hard work that our creators have put into their TennoGen creations, we are changing Skins to use the original models for Prime Warframes to prevent any unwanted clipping or concealment of textures. This is an all or nothing process due to technical limitations, so all TennoGen Skins will get this treatment.

Thank you all for your feedback and patience on this matter.

 

 

No, no, and NO

 

 

A whole bunch of us ENJOY having prime bits with Tennogen skins, they look so good on many prime Warframes.

 

 

Yes, Saryn Prime and Ember Prime might have problems but what about Frost Prime, Rhino Prime, Nyx Prime?

Looks good with Nova Prime and Valkyr Prime as well! And Mag? Astounding when you put more thought into it.

 

 

 

DE, the real solution for this is to NOT take away the Prime bits, but to give us an option to TOGGLE prime bits on or off, MANY of us have spent money to not only support creators, but to also look cool as well. By taking away that, you are making MANY of us regret spending money on this game.

 

 

 

Here are two viable solutions to this:

 

A. You give us the option to toggle Prime parts, as a whole or individually.

You sit back and work on it some more instead of releasing a half-assed fix that will disappoint much of the community. With enough work, I'm sure you can overcome these "technical limitations", because in all truth, it doesn't seem as complex as you think it maybe. Many MMOs have features that allow characters to toggle/hide specific armor parts on. I have good faith in DE, they have a large, dedicated team with passionate people, although unfortunately they do not get their stuff done right sometimes! So DE, do not rush this, because if a toggle solution seems too complex for you, then my faith has been misplaced and you will be seen as utterly incompetent in comparison to other MMO developers.

 

 

B. You leave Fashionframe alone, as it is, and do not attempt to fix it until you can do the former proposal perfectly. Do not fix something if it's not broken.

 

I've been quiet and letting DE slide with MANY mistakes, from Spectres of the Fail to hotfixes that break more than they fix. I will forgive them for that.

 

But whatever you do, DE, DO NOT destroy the Fashionframe aspect of this game.

It might not seem important, but in every single MMO ever, regardless of its theme/setting.

 

Once you have done everything, the endgame will always be the fashion aspect of it.

 

From World of Warcraft to Guild Wars 2 and even Team Fortress 2, the community is drawn to the cosmetic customization aspects of it, and are hooked by the possibilities and combinations it can offer due to the sheer amount of choices available.

 

You are about to tread into something confidently but unprepared, completely think this through or at least consider my solutions before you set the community on fire, again.

 

 

 

Edited January 5, 2017 by Seratuhlis
more stuff and more

[Demoonic]

5 hours ago, [DE]Taylor said:

Hey Tenno!

In honour of the hard work that our creators have put into their TennoGen creations, we are changing Skins to use the original models for Prime Warframes to prevent any unwanted clipping or concealment of textures. This is an all or nothing process due to technical limitations, so all TennoGen Skins will get this treatment.

Thank you all for your feedback and patience on this matter.

Oh please oh please tell me this means we will be able to use a frame or weapons non prime model on primes soon, like a toggle button or something. I love the regular burston and lex and it would be a dream to use their normal models on the primes!

[Amazerath]

A couple of things some people seem to be forgetting:

The artists who made these skins designed them for the non-prime models. They spent days or weeks working on these skins to make them look as good as possible. They put a lot of effort into it. And then when their work finally made it into the game, it got messed up. That's not cool.

I understand the frustration of seeing something you like being changed without warning. I've been there (Nova's Immortal skin). But that's probably something the artists felt as well, isn't it? We need to respect them and that means respecting their work and artistic vision as well.

 

As for adding an option to show/hide prime parts, before asking DE to do that you should be asking if the artists are ok with it. I think none of us (including DE) want to do something that's going to end up pushing talent away from TennoGen.

[Rush95]

On 23/03/2016 at 9:42 PM, Xardis said:

Petition to DE: Add a new UI toggle for prime to nonprime model for all prime frames or add an auxiliary slot for those prime parts like Banshee sholderplate. (The 2nd option was implemented several times in similar degree, Armor slots, Movember staches, Easter Leptus headgear, Halloween Dullahan mask and auxiliary cosmetics for Valkyr and Nekros) I dont want those prime bits automaticly turned off like with Deluxe skins. I do not expect any change to happen overnight, I only expect a public statemeant from DE about their decision on this issue and, if possible, a rough estimete on implementation date of any change.

 

Context: The title, Nova Prime model isnt disabled if you equip Cygni skin, it destroyes some aspects of the skin such as arms, top front, neck, back exhausts and legs. This issue is also with newer prime frames like Nyx, Vauban, Nekros, Rhino ect, coz they have more prime blings. It would be nice if it could be fixed either by making it optional to have Nova Prime features disables or making the skin do it outright.

I agree with some people not liking the Prime model, but really DE, even the OP themselves stated that a toggle would be the best solution. Not only that, it was stated multiple times across the thread how it'd be better to be able to choose instead of being stuck with just one version.

In a game about adding player choice, I've been seeing less and less choice lately, starting from Nidus (compared to other Warframes), to the Helminth Charger (compared to Kubrows), and now.. skins? That makes no sense! A toggle would be perfect, and it'd make Fashion Frame have another level of customization, since people would be able to choose over the Normal or Prime versions of the frame.

[Seratuhlis]

18 minutes ago, Amazerath said:

A couple of things some people seem to be forgetting:

The artists who made these skins designed them for the non-prime models. They spent days or weeks working on these skins to make them look as good as possible. They put a lot of effort into it. And then when their work finally made it into the game, it got messed up. That's not cool.

I understand the frustration of seeing something you like being changed without warning. I've been there (Nova's Immortal skin). But that's probably something the artists felt as well, isn't it? We need to respect them and that means respecting their work and artistic vision as well.

 

As for adding an option to show/hide prime parts, before asking DE to do that you should be asking if the artists are ok with it. I think none of us (including DE) want to do something that's going to end up pushing talent away from TennoGen.

 

Hitsu San enjoys seeing creative customizations using his skins on Prime Warframes (please see his threads).

 

Faven_FPS, quite possibly the biggest player in the Tennogen business, browses fashionframe threads in here and on 4chan, he even posts sneak peeks there every now and then. He too, enjoys it when people find creative ways to use his skins, especially on primes.

 

 

Although I do not know much about the other artists of Tennogen, what I do know is that even though they made the skins/helmets for non-primed frames, they enjoy what customers do with their stuff because:

 

1. By purchasing it, they show not only support, but also respect for their work. If people didn't respect their stuff, they wouldn't even bother buying it. Even worse, they won't bother voting for them in the Steam workshop.

 

2. They are making money, lots of it. by cutting off HALF of the reasons why we buy these skins, they'll make LESS money and might end up not making skins because it's not as profitable as before.

 

Losing Ignusdei from the list was such a massive blow to the Fashionframe, imagine what would happen if you lose THESE two?

 

 

Even small changes in Warframe can leave the biggest impact, I can list a whole bunch of controversies but the Warframe wiki itself is better at that than me.

 

So please DE, completely think this through, adding toggle functions might take a while, but it's better than releasing another controversial update or "hotfix".

[fredaven]

2 minutes ago, Seratuhlis said:

 

Hitsu San enjoys seeing creative customizations using his skins on Prime Warframes (please see his threads).

 

Faven_FPS, quite possibly the biggest player in the Tennogen business, browses fashionframe threads in here and on 4chan, he even posts sneak peeks there every now and then. He too, enjoys it when people find creative ways to use his skins, especially on primes.

 

 

Although I do not know much about the other artists of Tennogen, what I do know is that even though they made the skins/helmets for non-primed frames, they enjoy what customers do with their stuff because:

 

1. By purchasing it, they show not only support, but also respect for their work. If people didn't respect their stuff, they wouldn't even bother buying it. Even worse, they won't bother voting for them in the Steam workshop.

 

2. They are making money, lots of it. by cutting off HALF of the reasons why we buy these skins, they'll make LESS money and might end up not making skins because it's not as profitable as before.

 

Losing Ignusdei from the list was such a massive blow to the Fashionframe, imagine what would happen if you lose THESE two?

 

 

Even small changes in Warframe can leave the biggest impact, I can list a whole bunch of controversies but the Warframe wiki itself is better at that than me.

 

So please DE, completely think this through, adding toggle functions might take a while, but it's better than releasing another controversial update or "hotfix".

 

 

Toggle would be best. Untill that though? 

 

Not sure. With primes it's been clear for a long time that they are becoming a problem. Older primes+tennogen is fine (mag/volt/frost) ish.

 

But it's pretty obvious that DEs new primes are useless for tennogen. Vauban/saryns/Valkyr/nekros all got primes that cover 50%+ of the body with stuff we have no control over.

 

 A toggle would have been nice. Or maybe a case by case basis

[Jerakl]

2 minutes ago, fredaven said:

 

 

Toggle would be best. Untill that though? 

 

Not sure. With primes it's been clear for a long time that they are becoming a problem. Older primes+tennogen is fine (mag/volt/frost) ish.

 

But it's pretty obvious that DEs new primes are useless for tennogen. Vauban/saryns/Valkyr/nekros all got primes that cover 50%+ of the body with stuff we have no control over.

 

 A toggle would have been nice. Or maybe a case by case basis

 

I'll take what I can get so my Saryn doesn't look like it's model is bugging out when I have the graxx skin equipped lmao
As you said, older stuff is fine, Volt's tennogen stuff looks fine, for example.
But the newer stuff, not so much.

Edited January 5, 2017 by Jerakl

[Rankii]

1 hour ago, Seratuhlis said:

 

[jesus christ learn to conserve space]

 

 

 

Some of us like seeing more than 45% of something we spent actual cash on.

[Seratuhlis]

1 minute ago, fredaven said:

 

 

Toggle would be best. Untill that though? 

 

Not sure. With primes it's been clear for a long time that they are becoming a problem. Older primes+tennogen is fine (mag/volt/frost) ish.

 

But it's pretty obvious that DEs new primes are useless for tennogen. Vauban/saryns/Valkyr/nekros all got primes that cover 50%+ of the body with stuff we have no control over.

 

 A toggle would have been nice. Or maybe a case by case basis

 

 

You are right, toggle is the best solution!

 

As for the new primes with Tennogen skins? They only look weird if you don't put any effort into customizing them. Although I admit, the giant heart-shaped thing on Saryn Prime's thigh is kinda weird and would be better replaced with Graxx Saryn's thigh thing.

 

 

DE can make the toggle function even better by allowing us to toggle individual prime pieces. Just imagine putting the Graxx skin on Saryn Prime, but having the choice to switch between prime parts or the Graxx parts. Absolutely wonderful, would be such a massive innovation to the Fashionframe aspect of this game.

 

 

 

 

 

[Seratuhlis]

6 minutes ago, Rankii said:

TL;DR

Yes, that is true for many folks. However, everyone likes it when they have more choices available. A toggle option is still the best option possible, especially when you can pick out the parts you don't want and keep the ones you like.

 

After all, what's wrong with learning new and creative ways to make a frame pretty?

[Geraion]

1 hour ago, Amazerath said:

A couple of things some people seem to be forgetting:

The artists who made these skins designed them for the non-prime models. They spent days or weeks working on these skins to make them look as good as possible. They put a lot of effort into it. And then when their work finally made it into the game, it got messed up. That's not cool.

I understand the frustration of seeing something you like being changed without warning. I've been there (Nova's Immortal skin). But that's probably something the artists felt as well, isn't it? We need to respect them and that means respecting their work and artistic vision as well.

 

As for adding an option to show/hide prime parts, before asking DE to do that you should be asking if the artists are ok with it. I think none of us (including DE) want to do something that's going to end up pushing talent away from TennoGen.

Hence it should be a toggle for the many of us who -like- the extra icing on the cake that is the prime parts of the model... They can in fact please everyone with this one. Just make it a toggle...