Wait, so it is more efficient to NOT kill with a weapon you are leveling?

[DrBorris]

How Affinity in Warframe works…

Personal

When you kill an enemy with your Warframe, 100% of the affinity goes towards your Warframe.

When you kill an enemy with your weapon, 50% goes towards your weapon and 50% goes towards your Warframe.

A Bonus 100% goes towards your companion

 

Group

25% of the Affinity from someone else’s kill goes towards your Warframe

75% of the Affinity from someone else’s kill is distributed amongst your weapons.

A bonus 100% goes towards your companion.

 

So you gain 50% more MASTERY for having one weapon equipped and being next to someone killing an enemy than if you kill the enemy yourself. Just… what? Someone give me a logical justification for this.

You know what is almost funnier? If you stealth scan an enemy (while only having one weapon equipped) you will get more Affinity towards that weapon than killing them.

 

And people whine about Draco, maybe it’s not Draco that’s the issue but rather that it is objectively faster to leach than to play.

 

My Proposition? No nerf, just make it so when you kill an enemy with your weapon 100% of the affinity goes towards your weapon and a bonus 50% goes towards your Warframe. Sure, affinity could use a major overhaul, but at least make this little change for the time being.

 

Source: http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Affinity 

Edited March 24, 2016 by DrBorris
Fixed formatting for dark theme

[Stratego89]

Spoiler

You make an extremely good point, frankly. Though I can picture a lot of people complaining about HAVING to use a weapon to level it up because... well you know how people are- they love their draco and they love never having to actually even USE the thing they want mastery from (seriously DE change how mastery works please- the current system makes no sense)- but I won't get into that because it'll start issues probably.

Point is- I'd say make it so 75% of the experience goes to the weapon you are using, 25% is split between your other weapons, and 25% bonus goes to your warframe.

In ADDITION to that however, I believe affinity gain from allies should be changed. Firstly, kills by allies using their weapons would give you 50% of the total affinity- and would be split only among your weapons. More importantly, when an allied teammate uses a warframe ability to kill something it should not give you any affinity- or it should only go to your warframe at the same 50% rate. This would single handedly shut down the press-4-to-win affinity farms that plague us and make people actually work for their affinity, as well as effectively eliminating leeching.

Inb4 the farmers come at this suggestion with pitchforks and torches. Sorry guys- but the system has to change. You need to work for your affinity.

 

Edited March 24, 2016 by Stratego89

[Pie_mastyr]

yup! although the affinity sharing system was made before you could carry less than 3 weapons so that explains it. It doesn't justify it though :P

[Ailith]

I'd say this is common knowledge, hence why exp farms even exist, but the fact that people still post Draco threads proves otherwise.

 

14 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

You know what is almost funnier? If you stealth scan an enemy (while only having one weapon equipped) you will get more Affinity towards that weapon than killing them.

 

This is news to me though, and is quite sad... -_-

Edited March 24, 2016 by Ailith

[bejuizb]

Well then...so players level slower solo than in groups.

Good thing I'm a solo player. I can secure kills and get more e- oh wait. I don't.

[Torhque]

I've always taken advantage of this by running T1 Defense runs with a full squad as Frost, and then hurting targets without killing them.

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

Someone give me a logical justification for this.

Because screw solo players, obviously.

[motorfirebox]

It seems likely that the system was intended to award you 25% of your buddies' affinity gains to each of your weapons, because the system was designed with the intent that you have all three weapon slots filled. At some point, they should probably update the affinity system to reflect that.

Edited March 24, 2016 by motorfirebox
plurals is hards

[DrBorris]

20 minutes ago, Stratego89 said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

You make an extremely good point, frankly. Though I can picture a lot of people complaining about HAVING to use a weapon to level it up because... well you know how people are- they love their draco and they love never having to actually even USE the thing they want mastery from (seriously DE change how mastery works please- the current system makes no sense)- but I won't get into that because it'll start issues probably.

Point is- I'd say make it so 75% of the experience goes to the weapon you are using, 25% is split between your other weapons, and 25% bonus goes to your warframe.

In ADDITION to that however, I believe affinity gain from allies should be changed. Firstly, kills by allies using their weapons would give you 50% of the total affinity- and would be split only among your weapons. More importantly, when an allied teammate uses a warframe ability to kill something it should not give you any affinity- or it should only go to your warframe at the same 50% rate. This would single handedly shut down the press-4-to-win affinity farms that plague us and make people actually work for their affinity, as well as effectively eliminating leeching.

Inb4 the farmers come at this suggestion with pitchforks and torches. Sorry guys- but the system has to change. You need to work for your affinity.

 

Maybe that is a bit harsh. This would mean that if that on Excalibro spams Exalted Wave for an entire mission you will get next to no Affinity. Sure, the Excalibro did not get any affinity towards his weapons either, but that is how it works now anyway. The first part you suggested however, sounds great. It does kind of suck to see +0 on my secondary on solo missions. I honestly have no idea how to balance "Leach Affinity", it should be there in some way, shape, or form. But how exactly to integrate it to discourage leeching but not screw people who got grouped up with a spammer is difficult. And to think that the "end-game" system of Focus is based off of this mess is terrifying.

 

Just now, Mokunen said:

Because screw solo players, obviously.

Na, screw the guys who gets the kills. Let's say I do 50% of the damage in a squad of 4, logically my weapon should have gotten the most affinity, right? Nope, if those guys were pro leachers they would have ranked 50% higher than me in that mission.

[Gelkor]

It takes me 2-3 runs of solo execute missions to fully level weapons using stealth headshot kills, pretty efficient in my book.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Gelkor

[DrBorris]

1 minute ago, Gelkor said:

It takes me 2-3 runs of solo execute missions to fully level weapons using stealth headshot kills, pretty efficient in my book.

But if there was someone who pretended to be your shadow they would get 50% more Affinity...

[jscar]

40 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

Group

25% of the Affinity from someone else’s kill goes towards your Warframe

75% of the Affinity from someone else’s kill is distributed amongst your weapons.

A bonus 100% goes towards your companion.

It's not like that

in Group someone else's kills shares between all your equipment in same amount.

so if you have just 1 weapon equipped = 50% goes to frame, 50% to your weap

Edited March 24, 2016 by jscar

[Guest]

1 minute ago, DrBorris said:

Na, screw the guys who gets the kills. Let's say I do 50% of the damage in a squad of 4, logically my weapon should have gotten the most affinity, right? Nope, if those guys were pro leachers they would have ranked 50% higher than me in that mission.

Precisely, and a soloer will always get 100% of the kills. Not only that, since affinity is never distributed among your weapons when you get a kill, you need to actually get kills with all those low-rank non-potato'd trash weapons you have laying around to get any kill affinity at all on them, and you probably know how it's like to get those to 30. Good thing nowadays we have a couple ways for a soloer to rank up their MR trash more or less painlessly... which I'm not gonna mention despite them being fully legit and maybe even fun for some, because I'm afraid they'd get nerfed next. Because seriously, screw solo players.

[Gelkor]

1 minute ago, DrBorris said:

But if there was someone who pretended to be your shadow they would get 50% more Affinity...

If I cared enough to let someone, which I don't.  Having some asshat try to follow me around just compromises my 500% stealth streak. 

[laysonbaal]

To level weapons, you can use a nova to molecular prime the enemies and make your lower rank weapons hit really hard.

And nova also helps other group members kill enemies faster, so... Nova is basically the best warframe you can use in a random party to level your weapons.

Ofc a trinity/excalibro/buffer party in draco might work better, but only because they kill faster with RJ spam.

Remember the faster you and your group kills, the more exp you'll be getting. So standing there while waiting your team mates to kill stuff is usually not that efficient (again, with a random group).

Edited March 24, 2016 by laysonbaal

[Sixty5]

Why not just create a system where your kill percentage etc gives you bonus affinity at the end of a mission?

 

Would discourage leeching. 

[AEP8FlyBoy]

Very interesting discussion topic here, keep it on track guys. :)

*walks away slowly*

[ograzzt]

9 minutes ago, jscar said:

It's not like that

in Group someone else's kills shares between all your equipment in same amount.

so if you have just 1 weapon equipped = 50% goes to frame, 50% to your weap

This. So it's the same as if you'd kill them yourself.

[Stratego89]

1 minute ago, DrBorris said:

Maybe that is a bit harsh. This would mean that if that on Excalibro spams Exalted Wave for an entire mission you will get next to no Affinity. Sure, the Excalibro did not get any affinity towards his weapons either, but that is how it works now anyway. The first part you suggested however, sounds great. It does kind of suck to see +0 on my secondary on solo missions. I honestly have no idea how to balance "Leach Affinity", it should be there in some way, shape, or form. But how exactly to integrate it to discourage leeching but not screw people who got grouped up with a spammer is difficult. And to think that the "end-game" system of Focus is based off of this mess is terrifying.

It's only harsh if they leave Excalibur in his absolutely ludicrous state that everyone knows is overpowered and needs to change. Other than the one HORRIBLE mistake that is EB- everything DE has done in terms of reworks and newer abilities has been eliminating mass-killing nuke powers as a thing. Save for saryn but she requires a wind-up of powers so to speak.

The solution isn't really that difficult. It's simple, really. Don't give a single care in the world about people who will get stuck with a spammer when balancing the system- then eliminate power spam to kill everything in the world because it's boring and overpowered, and creates 90% of the issues in the game anywhere from breaking and exploiting systems to making people only ever play on one node.

Also yeah- Focus NEVER should have relied on affinity. Affinity is an outdated- and therefore bad- system. Mastery relies on this system so it also ends up being a bad system. Focus now relies on this system so it ALSO ends up being a bad system. Major progression systems in a game should NOT rely on each other... ever. In addition they should act drastically different from each other.

Spoiler

Time to go on a majorly off topic mini rant/idea here.

• I think affinity could stay the same but needs rebalancing, needs to give "equal" payouts for every mission type, and needs to reward better for higher level enemies than it currently does. Atm it's not even 2x more affinity killing a level 100+ enemy than it is a level 5 enemy. That's REALLY not ok. I think starting affinity for low level enemies should drop a bit and it should taper off slower. The system is not poorly structured, just outdated. It needs love and disconnection from the other systems to make it good again.

 

• I think mastery should be based on USING a weapon/warframe (herein referred to as "gear") in some form. Whether it be something similar to affinity that is NOT affinity that you only get while using the gear, or goals to complete with the gear such as x number of kills/headshots/finishers, or something else entirely different. You are MASTERING that gear- you should be required to do so in order to get Mastery. That's the whole point.

 

• I think focus should be based on how WELL you do in a mission. Everything you do in a mission from killing enemies to defending the pod, to retrieving data to saving an ally from being downed should give focus. At the end of a mission you get a focus multiplier based on how you did in the mission. Better accuracy? More focus. Went further in that survival? More focus. Defended the consoles/pod without losing more than 5% health/without taking damage? More focus. Lots of headshots? More focus. You get the point. Perhaps doing things that fit certain schools give a bonus 25% multiplier towards focus earned in that mission for that school. E.g. finishers and being stealthy give more naramon focus. Doing well in defense would give a bit more Vazarin/Unairu focus. Large amounts of enemies killed/combo kills would give bonus Madurai. Again- you get the idea. The whole idea behind focus is that you are training yourself down your chosen path. You are honing your skills and becoming better. Not mastering a weapon, mastering your actual performance as an individual and as a part of a group. This type of gain would suit that concept.

 

[AM-Bunny]

28 minutes ago, Sixty5 said:

Why not just create a system where your kill percentage etc gives you bonus affinity at the end of a mission?

Would discourage leeching. 

Um... because it would encourage kill-stealing? Sorry Trinity players - Excalibur gets 3x as much XP as you.

[Sixty5]

Just now, AM-Bunny said:

Um... because it would encourage kill-stealing? Sorry Trinity players - Excalibur gets 3x as much XP as you.

I wouldn't scale it that high.

Besides, given the EXP mechanics in the game currently, the non killing players already get a boost

[AM-Bunny]

5 minutes ago, Sixty5 said:

I wouldn't scale it that high.

Besides, given the EXP mechanics in the game currently, the non killing players already get a boost

Hmm... right after writing that, I wondered if I didn't think it through all the way.

Obviously, I was suggesting that it unfairly favours Power kills, but all Warframe Power kills give XP to the Warframe, not weapons, which is what this thread is discussing.

In a situation where Excalibur kills everything and Trinity leeches, Trinity would still get more weapon XP than Excalibur no matter what kind of 'bonus' he received. 

It still seems wrong to me on some level, but I'm not willing to devote the thought to deciphering why at the moment >.>

[Sixty5]

Just now, AM-Bunny said:

Hmm... right after writing that, I wondered if I didn't think it through all the way.

Obviously, I was suggesting that it unfairly favours Power kills, but all Warframe Power kills give XP to the Warframe, not weapons, which is what this thread is discussing.

In a situation where Excalibur kills everything and Trinity leeches, Trinity would still get more weapon XP than Excalibur no matter what kind of 'bonus' he received. 

It still seems wrong to me on some level, but I'm not willing to devote the thought to deciphering why at the moment >.>

Its more for the case of a guy like me who mows down everything wwith my Telos Akbolto in a draco run while my teammates scootch around on their butts like worm infested dogs.

I want to level my weapons too damnit.

[taiiat]

1 hour ago, DrBorris said:

My Proposition? No nerf, just make it so when you kill an enemy with your weapon 100% of the affinity goes towards your weapon and a bonus 50% goes towards your Warframe.

this would help a bit, yes.

59 minutes ago, BattleBrows said:

Well then...so players level slower solo than in groups.

always been the case. even without shifting more XP towards one Weapon - with 4 Players you simply end up facing and therefore Killing several magnitudes more Enemies in the same time. and Killing them faster since you have way more Abilities present.

32 minutes ago, Sixty5 said:

Why not just create a system where your kill percentage etc gives you bonus affinity at the end of a mission?
Would discourage leeching. 

i like it, but not on it's own. having a crapload of different ways to earn bonuses lets everyone be able to find a mixture of options that works for them.
even going nuts on the types, splitting things into smaller categories than we already have.

so in your example, the amount of Ability Kills vs total Ability Kills gets bonus points, and the amount of Weapon Kills vs total Weapon Kills gets bonus points, and so on.
tally all of these, and give bonuses appropriately. would probably end up with a couple dozen types, but that's why Players would be able to always find something that works for them.

45 minutes ago, jscar said:

It's not like that

if you have just 1 weapon equipped = 50% goes to frame, 50% to your weap

completely incorrect, sorry.

[EdBazokatone]

Scott said a couple of devstreams ago that they were working on how weapons are ranked up, stating that to rank them up you will actually have to use them. No more passive leveling just for having them equipped.

Maybe this ends up being affinity 2.0, let's hope for that.