Are Daggers made of super heavy materials?

[Mr_Stach]

Alright, I have this Idea swirling around my noggin, Daggers must be made of collapsed planet cores or something because they have the slowest attack speed in the game.

Here's some stats:

• Heat Dagger: .75
• Karyst: .75
• Sheev: .67
• Dark Dagger: .917
• Ceramic Dagger: 1.0

Now in my non-scientific experience slower weapons should do more damage, which daggers don't and I don't think they should.  Currently the only way to be effective with daggers is the use of the Covert Lethality mod,

So what I propose is to either speed up those attack speeds or up the crit chance for some berserker action.

So I was just wondering if any of you had any Ideas how to make daggers better in regular combat, because I don't want to have to have a Dagger fight have the same time frame of an episode of DBZ.

(Also as a side note daggers not having good Crit Chance/Damage makes me sad)

 

 

 

[ClinkzEastwood]

Melee's attack speed is weapon type based, not how many attacks they dish out per second.

[Ada_Wong_SG]

To make dagger better in combat...

[bubbabenali]

You should at least try the daggers at least once before posting about their speed.

You wouldn't complain about it then.

The daggers are by far the fastest melee weapons in the game.

Edited March 28, 2016 by bubbabenali
Autocorrect typo fixed

[YasaiTsume]

Daggers have meh Attack speed but that is because their Stances actually have one of the few fastest animations in the game.

Pointed Wind actually has a pretty speedy animation and I run my Karyst with Spoiled Strike and still am able to hit reliably.

The other stance is a tad slower during the stab animation. 

[Angelic-Guardian]

but daggers should have high attack speed to cover their low damage and bring them to the lvl of heavy melee weapons without the use of covert lethality.

[IX-44]

Daggers have high attack speed. What many people forget is that attack speed actually means animation speed, or how fast it takes your character to play through the attack animation. 

The Jat Kittag, arguably one of the slowest swinging melee weapons, has an attack speed of 1.0. This is faster than all but one of the weapons listed, yet all of the weapons listed are quite obviously faster than the Jat Kittag.

 

The problem with most daggers/dual daggers is actually just a flat out lack of power.

[PrVonTuckIII]

The listed attack speed is the multiplier. Said multiplier affects the speed of the animations. Dagger animations are insanely fast. As such, the slow multiplier doesn't affect them as much as you may think. Besides, their stances are really nice.

[Tesseract7777]

As others have said, the attack speed listed on daggers is very misleading, and another of the many things that just aren't very well explained in game. 

 

I have been messing around with my Sheev and with no attack speed mods, I still find it to be faster than A Jat Kittag with Fury (Kitteh with zerker stacks is obv a different story, but that's a lot of extra speed). I'm not sure I'm correct that it is quite that fast -- I haven't taken the time to do a full side by side comparison -- but the point is that even the slowest dagger (the Sheev) is more than fast enough. 

 

The weakness with daggers is that they have low damage and short range. The weak damage is somewhat mitigated by them having the gimmick with Covert Lethality. The CL mod also increases regular dagger damage output, and Pointed Wind has some really strong multipliers for damage. Daggers can be good, but they have different drawbacks than speed that mess them up. They have a really short range, and Primed Reach isn't exactly going to give you a great return on your investment because they don't have all that long range to begin with. Their damage still isn't particularly amazing even with pointed wind and CL. And most of them have fairly poor crit and status stats. Karyst is barely decent at crit. Sheev is a status dagger with a lot of slash damage, so for a dagger it has potential. 

 

With the right stance and mods daggers can be viable at more than just the finisher gimmick, and there is a dagger for pretty much any play style, but you still wouldn't want to use daggers unless you can make full use of CL. You'll still find times that you are fighting regularly with your dagger even then, and they are good enough now that they can still be useful when not doing finishers, even at high level. But, of course unless you are making use of the finisher gimmick, you aren't going to bring a dagger over any other weapon. There is no reason to. 

 

Honestly I think that covert lethality is a silly mod. The finisher thing should be an innate part of daggers. Did you know lacking CL that daggers and dual daggers have the weakest finishers? And hammers have the strongest? Shouldn't it be the opposite? It would make more sense that the tiny assassin weapons would be the best at finding grooves in the armor and getting lethal strikes, but would be much less good at open combat. Instead, daggers are literally the worst at finishers. 

 

I think they need to make CL (including the damage increase, because it is clear they realize daggers are too weak for combat without it), an innate part of every dagger, then remove the mod and give people a handful of R5 cores to replace it. This would strengthen daggers because it would essentially give you what CL does innately and give your dagger an extra mod slot to play around with (you could use this for more damage, which would in essence buff daggers). 

 

CL is a mandatory dagger mod, and it is the only thing that makes daggers viable. The function it creates has a place in the game, and should be a part of daggers, but if it is going to be that mandatory to make them useful, then it should simply be a part of daggers to begin with. 

Edited March 28, 2016 by Tesseract7777

[Ozamchist]

On March 28, 2016 at 3:46 AM, bubbabenali said:

You should at least try the daggers at least once before posting about their speed.

Really people should use things in this game before they you know pass judgement on something they have never actually used.

[-N7-Leonhart]

What basically everyone said. Daggers are fast, those are only animation speed multipliers.