Warframe balance is terrible and DE is not doing enough.

[jinxeverything]

6 minutes ago, -Sora- said:

Sort of the point i was attempting to make, yeah. 

 

The issue is that scaling is out of whack and a majority of frames focus on pure DPS which ends up leading to threads such as this. Those who can CC typically are preferred over others due to it not falling off as much as pure damage abilities.

 

If scaling gets sorted out then threads like this might be reduced in number. 

No, not quite as you think.

When Warframe get its QoL scaling and balancing a new issue will arise and that issue is "some frames are too OP now please nerf this and that"

The first of the post rescale victims would be Ember with her WoF ability then Excal with his EB then, well, any frame with great range for an attack or the ability to scale off of a weapon will be targeted by the complainers, and that is the sad truth :/

[FLSH_BNG]

1 hour ago, tripletriple said:

You have to pay for warframe or else the game will shut down and as a founder who invested and is still investing money into the game, I think I deserve an answer.

You don't deserve anything at all with that kind of attitude. You aren't forced to pay, you never were. You payed to support the game or to acquire items faster, that's it; so you've already gotten everything you deserved from your monetary support.

Being a paying player doesn't give you any more privileges than non-paying players except for the platinum and limited-time items that you directly paid for.

 

All you've done is demand a general, all-encompassing action with no details of what needs to be done specifically. There are no examples of what issues you've noticed paired with a suggested solution, let alone any sort of constructive feedback at all... Please, it's not enough to say that there are issues or problems and demand that "something must be done!" You need to be the one who proposes solutions, to let others know that you're trying to improve things and make them better for everyone.

Simply throwing a fit isn't any way to get what you want, and the loudest shouts are often the easiest to ignore, I mean... would you want to make common cause with a shouting rabble?

[IamTheSparta]

3 minutes ago, Hemmo67 said:

 

Edited March 30, 2016 by IamTheSparta

[Kutsus]

There is no balance in warframe, deal with it.

[IggySnow]

1 hour ago, tripletriple said:

 as a founder who invested and is still investing money into the game, I think I deserve an answer.

Jesus F***.. you don't deserve jack S#&$. Dont act so entitled.

When you spend money on a game it is not a investment, it doesn't entitle you to have a say in what the devs do. You spent the money on the game as it was at the time knowing full well it was in beta and that things will change, and you supported the developers, and every time you continued to spend money its the same thing. Don't enjoy the game? then stop spending your money on it.

if you have a problem with whats happening then its all well and good to give feedback, but you don't deserve anything.

[Cmdr-A]

1 hour ago, tripletriple said:

We have warframes like Inaros that got nerfed , when he is literally just a worse version of every tank in the game.

Really? Inaros is worse? I actually find him very much capable of surviving pretty much anything on his own with his ability to regain health back at far larger quantities. He's good at blind, and he's pretty much invulnerable if you're able to start devouring an enemy. The fact is he's a good frame and he's not been nerfed at all from what I can see. He still plays the same to me since day 4 of his release after getting him all built. He's very much viable in sorties up to the final 3rd mission. So if you're having issues with him, you must have him modded wrong / playing him wrong.

Not to mention dogs now have an insane pool of health of over 6000 HP making them far more capable of surviving, and most of your finisher moves by using his #1 against ends up giving them back roughly 2000 - 3000 HP back.

Edited March 30, 2016 by Cmdr-A

[(PSN)tknowles]

wow another one of these threads instead of b****ing and moaning that you want this change and that, which gets you no were how about actually create a thread about what changes you think could help point out specifics beacause all that is going to happen is a locked thread

Edited March 30, 2016 by (PS4)tknowles

[DogManDan]

1 hour ago, tripletriple said:

I understand DE is busy but this is ridiculous. They need to have a balancing team.

We have warframes that are released and not looked back at for years!

Why is Oberon in the sad state he is? Why is Ne zha such a terrible warframe and nothing has been done? Even Ne zha doesn't know where he belongs.

We have warframes like Inaros that got nerfed , when he is literally just a worse version of every tank in the game.

Let me correct you on these 3 comments you made right here. I can without a doubt 100% tell you that you are wrong based on playing these frames. All 3 frames are insanely great if you know how to them up (not looking at META) to fit your correct playstyle. That is all if you don't believe go visit my YouTube and I am sure I have enough proof to satisfy you.

[BETAOPTICS]

While I feel that this post did not perhaps drive the argument in the best way possible, I do admit that I have felt the same way about the balance and a dedicated or at least semi-dedicated balance " team " or developer would be absolutely healthy for this games overall experience. While I tend to roleplay and not be after min and maxing, roleplaying still has its clear limitations in the end-game portion and it is getting boring to use a set of functional Warframes and guns to get the job done when this game could do so much more with proper balance.

As much as I appreciated DE's efforts so far and what they have done is amazing quality, I do think that this is something they could do better on and I seriously wish DE would get at least someone whose one major goals was balancing the game to be more varied and healthy gameplay experience wise. Heck, you would not even have to make the old guns better trough straight buffs, but add in weapon exclusive syndicate mods that would make them end-game viable and make them expensive. This way there is still incentive for players to level up and buy new gear and eventually get to those mods that they could then switch to their weapons and make them end-gear viable.

[Basilisk1991]

The one problem with a lot of this discussion, especially when it's couched in vague pejoratives, is that a people aren't specific enough to really give DE anything to work with. Personally I think that DE should be a lot more willing to make smaller adjustments to damage vales in the interim even if they plan of completely reworking thing at some point down the line (Like with Damage 3.0) and I agree that DE should be willing to reexamine the channeling costs of some abilities (Like Peacemaker).

[(PSN)Zashukitsune]

1 hour ago, PsychedelicSnake said:

Okay. This response needs me to be serious now. "You have to pay". Are we playing the same game? You can literally go the whole game and not have to pay a single time.

I think they were meaning that "someone" hypothetically has to pay or otherwise DE would have no income.  To be honest, I actually don't know if/how FTP games get income other than through micro-transactions....something to google, I guess.

[-RIPD-Unduku]

Limbo is great as he is. Don`t touch it.

[CY13ERPUNK]

1 hour ago, PsychedelicSnake said:

Short Response: What.

Long Response: What

EDIT:

1. The reason Warframes are released and then reworks are delayed is because there's this phenomenon known as feedback. The Devs have to collect as much as they can. And not just on the forums. They have to get the opinions of the vocal people as well as the quiet people. AND THEN they have to balance community wants against what they personally feel is necessary.

2. When it comes to Warframes, people are all over the place. Some people like Oberon. Some don't. Some are in the middle of the road. Seriously, there's such a thing as silent majority.

3. Inaros was never nerfed, from what I remember. Not sure what you are getting at here. Also, subpar tank? For real, are we playing the same game?

4. Chroma? Completely useless skills? The only ability of his that really needs work is Spectral Scream. Not sure why you are talking like more than one of his abilities isn't good.

5. Just because the Devs don't talk about something doesn't mean they dropped it. Case in point: Focus.

6. It's almost as if Warframes have to be balanced differently based on community meta and a bunch of other factors.

7. Saryn, in my opinion, is just fine. But that's just my opinion. And once again, just because people want something on the forums doesn't mean they speak for the whole of the community. I've met tons of people in-game that love the rework, and know people on the forums that do as well. Upset people are more likely to be loud, while happy people are more likely to be silent and content.

8. Again, reworks take time. Feedback. Planning. Testing. This is how development works.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^ this ; also -1 OP

but on topic, yes there are 'balance' improvements that DE could make to the game, its just that you didn't mention any of them, instead ranting about many frames that are basically 'fine'

[Inzyr]

8 minutes ago, Basilisk1991 said:

The one problem with a lot of this discussion, especially when it's couched in vague pejoratives, is that a people aren't specific enough to really give DE anything to work with. Personally I think that DE should be a lot more willing to make smaller adjustments to damage vales in the interim even if they plan of completely reworking thing at some point down the line (Like with Damage 3.0) and I agree that DE should be willing to reexamine the channeling costs of some abilities (Like Peacemaker).

Point for discussion: Perhaps the channeling cost is a balancing factor? Which is to say, they may be taking into consideration that the cost can be reduced through modding (3.75/sec for example). It forces a sacrifice of other abilities. Just thinking out-loud, as it were.

[(PSN)Zashukitsune]

Just now, -RIPD-Unduku said:

Limbo is great as he is. Don`t touch it.

I think most people who play Limbo (He's personally my favorite theme and design-wise) don't want him changed so much as....improved.  The rift has a few issues to get ironed out, especially how Limbo works with it, and I would personally love if his second and third got combined, even if at a lower damage multiplier or rift time.  I would also personally prefer if we were able to collect at least some drops in the rift, maybe not all (gotta have SOME reason to come out of it, after all), but something so that he's a more imposing force. 

That's just my two cents though, and almost certainly not worth that.

[(XBOX)TheMadCash]

1 hour ago, Tesseract7777 said:

How was Inaros nerfed??? 

 

I read all the patch notes and the only significant change I remember was them allowing Provoked to affect his passive... not sure how that's a nerf. Unless there is something really big I missed in the patch notes... 

All I know is Devour got a bit of a change. When Devouring an enemy. You will be immune to all incoming dmg as long your consuming life. That was before. But i saw a recent Inaros video where he can now be damaged when in process of Devouring & enemies are opening firing at you. But it didnt really made a difference thou. Thats the only change I know. Unless there was something else as well

Edited March 30, 2016 by (XB1)Cash201293

[(PSN)Zashukitsune]

15 minutes ago, Basilisk1991 said:

The one problem with a lot of this discussion, especially when it's couched in vague pejoratives, is that a people aren't specific enough to really give DE anything to work with. Personally I think that DE should be a lot more willing to make smaller adjustments to damage vales in the interim even if they plan of completely reworking thing at some point down the line (Like with Damage 3.0) and I agree that DE should be willing to reexamine the channeling costs of some abilities (Like Peacemaker).

Exactly. That's pretty much it.

I don't know the numbers, I only know the concepts, so that's why if I ever bring up an idea on how to improve something, I give the details as I imagine them.  I don't see them as perfect nor real fixes, especially because I've no idea how difficult some concepts might be to program.  I think a lot of people ignore the second part and get really excited and overwhelmed by their own thought process and forget that the world doesn't necessarily respond to our thoughts. 

As for damage, I think you're on the right track, the major pain in DEs path, I think, is that if they just update damage points as many suggest, the problem persists it just gets shifted, especially since they'd have to modify all the weapons at once, roughly.  Balance ain't easy, but I think channeling cost for some abilities should at least be rethought around the abilities function.

[-FV-Metheria]

Oberon isn't in a sad state...

[venon23]

agree with all...
saryn she needs a b.. no shes op
chroma all 4 abilitys are a S.... no hes 1st ability sux
inaros worst....  chroma and inaros realy good tanks valky is for player that cant do more

DEV dont listen too players .... no they are realesing dmg 3.0 so maybe the listen too some players

well in the end i agree the oberon .... nope oberon is not a bad frame he needs one theme not 2 and thats the problem DE needs too make him or a druid or a paladin he cant be both

 

[unsiezer]

Not gonna lie but probably 30% of the reworks I have seen didn't need to happen or shouldn't have happened. Just look at the star chart. and even more current is MAG. just because the large majority of players have piss horrible understanding of game mechanics doesn't mean a warframe is bad. each warframe should have its role, and reason, and if anyone tells me MAG doesn't fit the DPS roll against corpus they should probably go back to school. the only reason I feel  she is getting a rework is because people seem to think every warframe has to be good at all things. there are currently 29 warframe, and so they should each have 29 different roles to play. now I'm not saying there aren't things that that need to be fixed, but they have limited staff and money so they need to prioritize,and sometimes it pays off, sometimes it doesn't.

because this topic has a few people arguing about free to play. I have played since December of the first year the game was made, and I have 200+weapon slots, 30+ warframe slots, 600+ unique mods all maxed, I'm missing nothing but the founders exclusives, beta exclusives, and primed chamber. for the most part I haven't spent any money on warframe, because once you get a few key mods, you can easily earn 200-500p a week if you try and are patient, that's more then enough to buy everything free. that being said I feel tripletriple is trying to point out that DE needs  to make money to run things, so they reley on people spending money on content. Now I love DE hence why I have bought ever Prime access, and Limited edition statue. Do i think there prices are fair, yes they are better then most FTP, so I buy those things to support the developers, more so then I do for the exclusive content.

 

[IamTheSparta]

5 minutes ago, -FV-Metheria said:

Oberon isn't in a sad state...

hahahaha thank you :)

[(PSN)KikoEschobar]

2 hours ago, tripletriple said:

I understand DE is busy but this is ridiculous. They need to have a balancing team.

We have warframes that are released and not looked back at for years!

Why is Oberon in the sad state he is? Why is Ne zha such a terrible warframe and nothing has been done? Even Ne zha doesn't know where he belongs.

We have warframes like Inaros that got nerfed , when he is literally just a worse version of every tank in the game.

We have to wait months for multiple re works for warframes and some, like Chroma have completely useless and unusable skills. Spectral scream anyone?

Why does Chroma's pelt cost 10 energy per second when excalibur Exalted blade cost 2.5 at base? Why does Ne Zha have a higher base energy cost for his fire feet over valkyrs invincibility.  

Wukong was supposed to get a buff for his sub par melee range but it was just dropped. Rebbeca talked about it months ago.

The Saryn feed back thread had over 100 pages and nothing has been done.

Limbo is crying for a rework! 

What is going on DE? You need to do something about this situation. Please fill us in! 

Do not let the balance of the game suffer like this. Hire a team, whatever needs to be done, do it!

I think my faith in humanity took a little hit when I read this. And I saw how many up votes you got and was like ........ Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu.

Seriously 38 ppl though that any of this was coherent enough to agree with. How? Why? And you being a founder means exactly jack@hit when it comes to your requests, and DE's responsibilities. But you can have a cookie for your trouble though...so...there is that at least ;).

P.S. None of whatever that was you call an OP had anything to do with this so called "balance". You wanting something isn't a balance issue it is a, wait for it, YOU ISSUE!!!! Now stop clogging my notifications with your nonsense.

 

 

2 hours ago, PsychedelicSnake said:

 

P.P.S. ^This. All of this^.

Edited March 30, 2016 by (PS4)KikoEschobar

[Relentless.Zen]

Stop talking about "balance" in a PvE game.. You dont like a frame/weapon? Dont play it. But please guys stop complaining about things that are not fun for you. Its maybe fun for others!!

[(XBOX)TheMadCash]

A couple of responses to the OP

1. Yes we do have frames released & havent looked back at (yet). But Warframe is always growing. DE has to plan future content aswell as going back & changing a few things. I cant even imagine how DE time looks like. DE officials are only human like me & you. Just like ppl that have jobs.

They need a break from time to time. When they get to it they will. Some frames needs to be looked at literally right now. Like Oberon, Volt, Vauban, Nekros. Honestly Mag could've waited. But so far DE recent reworks havent let me down yet so.  

2. Yes Oberon is terrible. Its incredibly sad because he can be turn into the Sayrn of Radiation. His whole skill set need to be changed. Not tweaked but changed. His 2nd & 3rd could honestly be changed into something that can synergize with the rest of his abilities.

Nehza is not terrible. Nehza is my go to guy for infested missions. Infested cant touch you. Besides his 1st is good with keeping enemies on their toes. Better tank than Rhino if you ask me. I cant survive with Rhino to save my life. 

3. Inaros didnt get nerfed. I keep up with the patch notes. Nothing about him shouldve changed the way you play him, Inaros is better tank than any frame if you ask me. Better than Rhino. Inaros have a larger health pool that he can regain any time he wants. Rhino Iron skin can get ripped to shreds.

(Inaros 1) (Other frames 0) Valkyr have a larger armor than Inaros but Inaros can crowd control from all his abilites. Protecting his allies from harm while also giving off health (Inaros 2) (Other frames 0). Only 2 frames I say he is competing with is Trinity & Chroma (Ice element). 

4. Well not much I can say. I can say Chroma Scream should have the range of the Ignis & that dmg should increase the longer you scream. I would actually play more Chroma just because of this simple change.

5. Again not much I can say about the energy costs either. 

6. Yup. That incredible range i saw he can reach from those Wukong gifs had me excited for him. But he brings nothing new to the table without it & doesnt have a place in my Arsenal.

7. I play with Sayrn all the time. Idk what else should be done to her. Yeah energy costs are a bit much but she doesnt have a high energy pool for nothing. 

8. Yes. Not tweaks but reworks. So far DE reworks impressed me & i dont see why wont DE give Limbo his rework already. But before Limbo. Lets focus on Vauban, Oberon first.

Edited March 30, 2016 by (XB1)Cash201293

[shut]

2 hours ago, tripletriple said:

We have warframes like Inaros that got nerfed

What?

2 hours ago, tripletriple said:

when he is literally just a worse version of every tank in the game

What?!

 

OT:

Just as PsychedelicSnake said on the front page, it's not exactly as simple as looking through feedback and immediately implementing what the loudest voices want.

But yeah, I do agree that there are many glaring issues that I'm surprised have not been fixed. Limbo's unreliable rift mechanics and Chroma's beloved "flamethrower that has a 40% chance to not set anything on fire" are among the more commonly-mentioned issues that players seem to unanimously agree on (regarding how much they need improvement). I get debatable topics like Excal's energy drain and Saryn feedback and such, but I'm shocked that nothing has been done about issues as simple as these. Not even a bandaid solution for while we wait for a true fix.

Edited March 30, 2016 by SortaRandom