New(er) Players and Griefing - an open Discussion (enormous Wall of Text)

[carnaga]

I had a bit different experience on the corpus interception sortie. I joined a game and instantly got host migration and mission fail cause enemy had decoded the message. So I was back in liset. All this under 60 seconds.

Instead of disbanding the squad I decided - as I usually do - to go there with the same squad. And we had pretty fun there. And yes, we completed the mission :)

What I think of this is that patience is a virtue and you should never underestimate people -- they are awesome. This is the reason why I love PUB games: that you get variety of frames and weaponry and builds there and missions become quite interesting. Sometimes a n00b player can surprise you and you might even learn few new tricks, even thought you have been playing the same game for past 3 years.

I know we have bad apples among us. But this is because Warframe is pretty awesome for F2P game and it is attracting more and more people. Atm we have 41,723 steam players in-game - myself; I don't play via steam so add all non-steam players to the number. And the more players we get... well you know the result.

And you have to remember, we all have been n00b players in this game.

[SYL3NZR]

3 minutes ago, carnaga said:

 

And you have to remember, we all have been n00b players in this game.

which is EXACTLY why i am making this post

me, and many others play since day one, or even before that, we use the wiki more than our keyboards and have been slowly adapting to every single thing DE has brought out the last 3 years

we slowly step by step learned all mechanics, because they released that way

new players face EVERYTHING upfront, its overwhelming and just hurts them to run after the cool kids stuff before learning the basics, i want to "force" people to experience everything there is, and learn about mostly everything concerning game mechanics and basics and not have them jump into endgame after the tutorial

[(PSN)whiskey_14]

I hope DE works on the sense of progression, as in having weapons and planets behind Mastery Ranks.  In my opinion this would give people the sense of progress and there would be no need to jump to something that's not at their skill level. 

A lot of people call low rank weapons trash and mastery fodder but try playing with a rank 5-10 frame on Jupiter with said mastery fodder and it's a whole different experience, you're challenged, you die and you can't speed rush but at the same time your weapon kills, and it kills even more when you can add a bit of skill and parkour you picked up on the way. 

A good example of progression would be how a MR 11(and lower) knows there's a bunch of great Syndicate weapons around the corner and the rewards of getting to MR 12 will pay off.

If we had this feeling all across the board it would be sweet, If DE can somehow showcase that at MR4-5 we will have access to the Atomos or at MR6 the Soma people would have that sense of progression, once they hit MR4 the Atomos and other weapons would be their best friend getting them to MR6 which would get them a Soma, then on to MR8 for the dragon Nikana! Do this with the 200+ weapons available who can complain.  Maybe even give them a choice of built weapons upon completing thier MR test?

We can have alerts automatically put you in high or lower level and you get the same rewards, or give you the option of difficulty but block some out according to your loadout/MR etc., ie a MR5(or MR20 with low gear) can go to a higher tier but due his loadout etc. can't go to the highest.  This gives a challenge but also offers something else to progress too for newer players.  As long as the challenge is there and the weapons giving to you are fun people should have no problem progressing.

 

[Stratego89]

34 minutes ago, Ankoku_no_Hime said:

Not grindy, for real?

 

23 minutes ago, polarity said:

If you're of the 'stampede towards the clitoris' mindset of chasing MR and endgame, then yes it is.

If you're of the 'equipment as content' and 'systems to be mastered' mindset it isn't.

I don't find the game grindy, but then I don't care one bit about MR, don't care about efficient affinity farming, and can leave doing new content until later.  To me weapons and frames are something to have fun with, not just something to be leveled and then replaced.  You wouldn't believe the kind of crap I've put formas in, because I was still enjoying using it, and figured I may as well see what it's like with more mod space for crazy builds.

^All of this. Thanks for saving me some time typing, m8.

[NixtheLow]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)whiskey_14 said:

Snippity-snip!

This! 

When you increase your MR, they should show a brief splash or (a la daily logins) squares showing what you unlocked to craft, and below that what to look forwards to for the next few unlocks. 

 

I, personally, don't grind weapons for MR. Only reason why I've been through so many (MR 18) is because I love finding new mod configurations and basing builds off crazy ideas with weapons like a radation proc Amprex for endgame. Why fight lvl 100 enemies when you can have them fight each other?

[polarity]

Hopefully the star chart changes will enforce more of a progression through the planets, by making it harder to shortcut to the last bosses.

As for weapons, I think the single biggest thing DE could do to make their progression more apparent is to very clearly mark their required MR on them, front and center in the UI.

FFS the dojo blueprints don't say the required MR anywhere in its UI, so there's nothing to stop a new player buying the blueprint, farming all the resources, crafting the weapon, and then finding out they can't equip it for several levels.  Instead they have to go and look somewhere like the wiki or the codex to know that (It actually says to check the wiki for MR requirements in my clan's MOTD).

Meanwhile modding needs to be made a lot simpler for new players, because they are completely overwhelmed by what they get, even from the start, never mind what starts dropping once they have a few planets unlocked.

The game really should mark maybe half a dozen mods as 'Core mods', the ones that will get you the most effect right at the start of the game.  Things like Redirection, Vitality, Serration (although that may be going).  A weapon with just a reasonably leveled Serration in it is going to drastically outperform something with even twice the points value of a set of random unleveled mods.

Edited April 2, 2016 by polarity

[SYL3NZR]

18 minutes ago, (PS4)whiskey_14 said:

snip

good point, the complete lack of available options item wise in the game could play a huge role in motivation, ill incorporate that in the OP

[polarity]

MR is just one huge problem that needs some kind of balancing itself.

All it is now is a value showing how much equipment you have leveled (excluding mods).  Sure there are the tests, but none of them are really that hard, and a lot of them can be cheesed with the right frames.

It doesn't reflect in any way how well a player can actually play the game, or how well their gear contributes to how well they play.

The first part of that is far too subjective to represent with a number, but MR could be expanded upon to represent not just the diversity of equipment that has been leveled, but also the highest level of capability among a player's equipment.

Throw in a second set of tests, where you have to do a certain level of damage to set targets, with whatever gear you have.  That would give a value reflecting a player's investment in formas and module fusion, not just endless weapon/warframe leveling.

Yes it would slow down a great many player's progression to high MRs, but it would also encourage them out into the star chart in search of a better diversity of mods, and give them a reason to understand Damage 2.0.

[Greedygreen]

While i agree with most of the stuff, i don't think that MR restrictions are good idea, when i started the game and noticed how useful forma's are, i was slowed down in raising my rank, so by the time i had mastery rank 6 i already unlocked all the nodes on the map, which means if there were restrictions to mr it would affect my experience with this game pretty badly.

[polarity]

2 minutes ago, Greedygreen said:

While i agree with most of the stuff, i don't think that MR restrictions are good idea, when i started the game and noticed how useful forma's are, i was slowed down in raising my rank, so by the time i had mastery rank 6 i already unlocked all the nodes on the map, which means if there were restrictions to mr it would affect my experience with this game pretty badly.

See my post above yours.  I'd like to see MR include formas and mod fusing as a component, so that the MR restrictions give players more ways to progress towards them than just getting things to 30.  Players absolutely should not be getting penalized because they have taken the time to make what little equipment they do have perform at a high level.

Edited April 2, 2016 by polarity

[Greedygreen]

i started writing my post before your post was on the page, so by the time i posted mine yours was already there

[(PSN)GrandisSupernus]

You almost had a good point before you basically berated new players for the sin of... being new. It's on you if you put so much importance on Mastery Rank. The game would be better off if you couldn't see another person's MR, in my opinion. It goes the other way too, with a good player not getting invited to a mission because their MR isn't high enough for the recruiter to bother giving them a chance. But asking DE to "fix" the game so that you don't have to feel like you have to coach a new player or "carry" them is asking too much. Finding good, reliable people to squad with is always going to be a challenge, but that comes with any game, and if you're not willing to even try to find those people then that's a problem you're just creating for yourself. I know you're talking about public games, but it isn't an issue that needs to be "fixed".

Oftentimes I see the opposite; a player doing more or less exactly what they're supposed to be doing but get berated by a "pro" player for not using the gun or melee weapon popularly considered to be "the best" (until the next update where everything shuffles around again, at least in their minds) or for simply not being far enough in the game to afford all the best mods and gear. I got told off for not possessing the Syndicate mod for my Frost, despite the fact that I was actively working towards it through the Syndicate system. I knew about it, I knew it was worth getting, but I wasn't at the point where I could get it easily and I wanted to earn it myself instead of buying it. But nope, apparently that's not how you're supposed to play and whatever else I accomplished, such as the amount of damage dealt, was irrelevant.

In short, stop telling people they're not playing the game "properly" for not playing to whatever your standards are. That's not on DE. Unless you're talking about a Trial in which having everyone doing the right thing at the right time is necessary for success, you don't get to tell other people that their headshot count isn't high enough so they need to step up. Apologies if that's not what anyone is saying, but that's the impression I got from the original text wall.

[SYL3NZR]

41 minutes ago, (PS4)GrandisSupernus said:

You almost had a good point before you basically berated new players for the sin of... being new. It's on you if you put so much importance on Mastery Rank. The game would be better off if you couldn't see another person's MR, in my opinion. It goes the other way too, with a good player not getting invited to a mission because their MR isn't high enough for the recruiter to bother giving them a chance. But asking DE to "fix" the game so that you don't have to feel like you have to coach a new player or "carry" them is asking too much. Finding good, reliable people to squad with is always going to be a challenge, but that comes with any game, and if you're not willing to even try to find those people then that's a problem you're just creating for yourself. I know you're talking about public games, but it isn't an issue that needs to be "fixed".

Oftentimes I see the opposite; a player doing more or less exactly what they're supposed to be doing but get berated by a "pro" player for not using the gun or melee weapon popularly considered to be "the best" (until the next update where everything shuffles around again, at least in their minds) or for simply not being far enough in the game to afford all the best mods and gear. I got told off for not possessing the Syndicate mod for my Frost, despite the fact that I was actively working towards it through the Syndicate system. I knew about it, I knew it was worth getting, but I wasn't at the point where I could get it easily and I wanted to earn it myself instead of buying it. But nope, apparently that's not how you're supposed to play and whatever else I accomplished, such as the amount of damage dealt, was irrelevant.

In short, stop telling people they're not playing the game "properly" for not playing to whatever your standards are. That's not on DE. Unless you're talking about a Trial in which having everyone doing the right thing at the right time is necessary for success, you don't get to tell other people that their headshot count isn't high enough so they need to step up. Apologies if that's not what anyone is saying, but that's the impression I got from the original text wall.

in my version MR is to supposed to incentive getting and playing content and thus widening options for "endgame" loadouts and forcing people out of their comfort zone

also MR10 is literally like a week of playing tops - like its barely any gear you need to level to reach, and only 1 more MR per planet, its supposed to force people to have slowly approached higher and higher content SLOWLY adapting to "endame" => time invested often means better player and thats in everybody's interest

[Rakosta_Kai]

2 hours ago, (PS4)GrandisSupernus said:

You almost had a good point before you basically berated new players for the sin of... being new. It's on you if you put so much importance on Mastery Rank. The game would be better off if you couldn't see another person's MR, in my opinion. It goes the other way too, with a good player not getting invited to a mission because their MR isn't high enough for the recruiter to bother giving them a chance. But asking DE to "fix" the game so that you don't have to feel like you have to coach a new player or "carry" them is asking too much. Finding good, reliable people to squad with is always going to be a challenge, but that comes with any game, and if you're not willing to even try to find those people then that's a problem you're just creating for yourself. I know you're talking about public games, but it isn't an issue that needs to be "fixed".

Oftentimes I see the opposite; a player doing more or less exactly what they're supposed to be doing but get berated by a "pro" player for not using the gun or melee weapon popularly considered to be "the best" (until the next update where everything shuffles around again, at least in their minds) or for simply not being far enough in the game to afford all the best mods and gear. I got told off for not possessing the Syndicate mod for my Frost, despite the fact that I was actively working towards it through the Syndicate system. I knew about it, I knew it was worth getting, but I wasn't at the point where I could get it easily and I wanted to earn it myself instead of buying it. But nope, apparently that's not how you're supposed to play and whatever else I accomplished, such as the amount of damage dealt, was irrelevant.

In short, stop telling people they're not playing the game "properly" for not playing to whatever your standards are. That's not on DE. Unless you're talking about a Trial in which having everyone doing the right thing at the right time is necessary for success, you don't get to tell other people that their headshot count isn't high enough so they need to step up. Apologies if that's not what anyone is saying, but that's the impression I got from the original text wall.

This game wasn't always like this but I'd be lying if I said that it doesn't appear to be an active trend now.

The prevailing opinion used to be, "Be strong enough to carry the weak and teach when necessary while reporting outright leachers.".

I'm not certain what caused the shift in thinking though.

 

[Kryshok]

While I agree there are a lot of new players running where they probably shouldn't the fact is they are there. As to MR showing skill it never has. I could build weapons and run Apollodorius on Mercury all day to max them out and shoot my level up but that still doesn't make me good. 

As to a solution, there isn't any. Is there things to do to deal with this issue, there is. You can always just do invite or friends games but if you run in PuG's this will always be a issue, how to deal with the ones who won't listen...ignore them, they go down don't revive them. I know this to some is rude but if said player is already causing trouble no reason wasting time and effort on someone who doesn't deserve it. 

As to locking planets behind MR...this could work but it needs to be tweaked. What I mean is you can get most resources you need through Saturn, so maybe lock planets after Saturn behind a MR lock might work. 

Most vets I've talked to don't mind helping new players but if they have the attitude that since they are this MR level they're good I leave them be and when they run off by themselves and get taken down I go oops can't seem to find you...but since you're so good you can survive it.

In the end as the game grows and even more players flock to it this issue will expand even further unless some sort of mandatory mission type tutorial is put in place.

[Heatnix.]

9 hours ago, DeadlyPeanutt said:

the essence of your comment is that new players should be forced to grind more, which would certainly drive more new players away from the game. 

Well... uhm... yeah. That's the point. In a non entirely numerically driven MMO (it is, but you have to have reflexes and know how and when to use things), you need that 'field experience' instead of just being carried. If they "grind" more, they understand how to play... And honestly the only way to do this is by forcing them to play more stuff, otherwise they just get carried on someone else's back. When these new guys level high enough they carry lower levels the same way they were and the circle continues.

Like I said... because of Draco and such help they get to carry 4 forma'd tonkors and soma primes but have the worst aim possible and have no idea how to get the best out of them. When push comes to shove in difficult missions they become the monkey with a bazooka. Sure, they have a bazooka, but hell knows how they got it and you know they don't know how to use it.

Edited April 2, 2016 by Heatnix.

[Irorone]

11 minutes ago, Heatnix. said:

Well... uhm... yeah. That's the point. In a non entirely numerically driven MMO (it is, but you have to have reflexes and know how and when to use things), you need that 'field experience' instead of just being carried. If they "grind" more, they understand how to play... And honestly the only way to do this is by forcing them to play more stuff, otherwise they just get carried on someone else's back. When these new guys level high enough they carry lower levels the same way they were and the circle continues.

Like I said... because of Draco and such help they get to carry 4 forma'd tonkors and soma primes but have the worst aim possible and have no idea how to get the best out of them. When push comes to shove in difficult missions they become the monkey with a bazooka. Sure, they have a bazooka, but hell knows how they got it and you know they don't know how to use it.

First, off it's NOT an MMO.  MMO's have MANY players in a single active play space not 4-8.  We have elements that MMO's have i.e. trading, grind, ELITISM OUT THE ***, and these days a generally unpleasant community; went to COUNCIL chat and my one sentence about how my own glaive shouldn't instakill me as it homes back into my hand was met with three counts of "git gud" and read the wiki EACH (literally not a single positive or neutral response just two ***** trying to push my buttons).

Second, this falls into the fact the new players can solo if they "want the experience" stop bashing on powerful players because they CAN help a newbie out.  Some players may act entitled but those players generally aren't all that fun to play with anyways regardless of how low or high they're leveled.

Third, player skill is ALWAYS extremely subjective in a primarily co op game.  Hating on the guys that CAN carry a newb to 30 through draco or hating on draco itself literally helps no one.  Make suggestions on how the game's progression could work BETTER don't just complain to change the node of preference.  Also if the player can't figure out how a machine gun or a grenade launcher works by rank 30, draco or no, then whether they're carried or not is a moot point.

[VoidNomade]

Locking content (that´s what we´re talking about here) is a way more delicate and complex story with things like clans and market in place.

The first thing this thread should´ve handled imo is the clan situation with a mate that is carried. Do you help him? How? Would you need to lock content even for clans? Why & How? How does the guy with the credit card can handle those hurdles?

 

I don´t think a simple regulation like MR alone is able to handle that. It´s about everything, the enemies you fight, their race, their level, their life, their damage, their abilities, the mods you´ve available for modding, which mods, where you´ve got them and for fusion as the main stat stick in warframe, the credits you´ve acquired, the mats you need to craft, the possible weapons and warframes you´ve acquired in time and their power level calculated with/&VS all the things earlier in the sentence. It´s way more complex than you think and can´t be dumped down to lock content X behind mastery Y and everything will be fine. It´s a horrendous balance act.

 

What´s out of question though is the whole codex/introduction/explaining stuff and a red line of progress in warframe. It can´t be that you need the wiki to know how your skills work for example... but i think DE is slowly working towards making exactly this real. First step will be Star Chart then we can only wait and see what´s coming.

Edited April 2, 2016 by VoidNomade

[Heatnix.]

1 hour ago, Irorone said:

First, off it's NOT an MMO.  MMO's have MANY players in a single active play space not 4-8.  We have elements that MMO's have i.e. trading, grind, ELITISM OUT THE ***, and these days a generally unpleasant community; went to COUNCIL chat and my one sentence about how my own glaive shouldn't instakill me as it homes back into my hand was met with three counts of "git gud" and read the wiki EACH (literally not a single positive or neutral response just two ***** trying to push my buttons).

Second, this falls into the fact the new players can solo if they "want the experience" stop bashing on powerful players because they CAN help a newbie out.  Some players may act entitled but those players generally aren't all that fun to play with anyways regardless of how low or high they're leveled.

Third, player skill is ALWAYS extremely subjective in a primarily co op game.  Hating on the guys that CAN carry a newb to 30 through draco or hating on draco itself literally helps no one.  Make suggestions on how the game's progression could work BETTER don't just complain to change the node of preference.  Also if the player can't figure out how a machine gun or a grenade launcher works by rank 30, draco or no, then whether they're carried or not is a moot point.

You got my message as hate toward powerful players babying newbies? That's not the message at all. I don't mind you lashing out, though, you seem tense about a few events that happened lately so it's all right.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

to be fair though, pretty much any game with an online function suffers from the same problem. in GTA Online I've been in many groups with people who can't drive or shoot straight, and it's certainly frustrating.

the best thing we can do is try to encourage newer players to learn the things that we have, get them into independent individuals who can both Solo Content and work as a team effectively, depending on what the situation requires. as with anything, people only get better through practice, and I'm happy to keep reviving someone if they're actually trying and contributing to the team, no matter how many times they go down.

newbies I can deal with, but ignorant A-holes and people who don't listen burn through my patience like a flame through Black powder. worst part is, there's nothing that anybody can do for them.

[carnaga]

31 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

to be fair though, pretty much any game with an online function suffers from the same problem. in GTA Online I've been in many groups with people who can't drive or shoot straight, and it's certainly frustrating.

the best thing we can do is try to encourage newer players to learn the things that we have, get them into independent individuals who can both Solo Content and work as a team effectively, depending on what the situation requires. as with anything, people only get better through practice, and I'm happy to keep reviving someone if they're actually trying and contributing to the team, no matter how many times they go down.

newbies I can deal with, but ignorant A-holes and people who don't listen burn through my patience like a flame through Black powder. worst part is, there's nothing that anybody can do for them.

Well, we definitely have different kinds of people playing warframe and I've been countering high level players trolling low level players in the missions. So this thing works in bi-directional way: the stuff just culminates in-game.

[Darkforge33]

I think that using mastery rank to gate content could work, but only if they change the mastery tests so that they actually test the player's ability to handle that content. Currently they mostly boil down to "complete this arbitrary task with these arbitrary limitations." Mastery rank might actually mean something if the tests were more "complete this carefully balanced scenario that actually resembles a real mission using the tools at your disposal."

[DeadlyPeanutt]

15 hours ago, SYL3NZR said:

-snip-

since you obviously didn't read what I wrote and your response had nothing to do with the points I made, i'll simply repeat that playing the game with a non functional level 1-15 weapon teaches a player nothing about how to use the weapon.  

draco and other creative ways of leveling up weapons and frames allows players to have highly effective weapons more quickly.

therefore, it's arguable that such nodes keep players in the game and keep money flowing to the game developers.

now... would you actually like to respond to what I said this time? 

[DeadlyPeanutt]

28 minutes ago, Darkforge33 said:

I think that using mastery rank to gate content could work, but only if they change the mastery tests so that they actually test the player's ability to handle that content. Currently they mostly boil down to "complete this arbitrary task with these arbitrary limitations." Mastery rank might actually mean something if the tests were more "complete this carefully balanced scenario that actually resembles a real mission using the tools at your disposal."

i agree that MR tests are pretty much unrelated to real missions, however MR is not a good metric for mastery of the game.  MR is simply a measure of how many frames/weapons you've gotten up to level 30 primarily.   A player who buys and levels up weapons doesn't necessarily know how to use those frames/weapons. 

[KnaveOfSwords]

22 hours ago, SYL3NZR said:

IS IT GRIEFING FOR UNQUALIFIED PLAYERS TO PURPOSELY JOIN MISSIONS, KNOWING THEY WON'T BE OF ANY VALUE TO THE SQUAD? THUS PUTTING REMAINING PLAYERS ON TILT OR EVEN MAKE THE MISSION IMPOSSIBLE TO COMPLETE / PROGRESS FURTHER.

I WANT _YOUR_ OPINIONS ON THIS MATTER

I think it depends a lot.

If the players know that they won't be able to pull their own weight, and don't make sure their squad-mates are aware of this ahead of time, then yes, it's griefing.  (If the rest of the squad knows going in that you're needing to be carried, this is another matter entirely.)

However, many newer players suffer from something that I've termed (based on my own experience), the Valkyr ¹ effect.

Valkyr's 4th power makes the player completely indestructible, as long as they can keep up with the energy costs (and in missions with large numbers of enemies, this is often fairly easy).  This unfortunately makes it easy to lose sight of a lot of the big picture things.

You don't necessarily understand the kind of modding for both your warframe and your melee weapon needed to get the damage up to where it's effective against high-end enemies.  And why would you?  You can charge into melee with 5, 10, even 20 or more of those guys and keep clawing until they all drop, so clearly it must be good enough.

You almost certainly don't spot the 30 other guys that the rest of your cell have been dealing with while you fought those 5.  You probably didn't notice that part of why they went down quickly was the spores from Saryn, or Nova's Molecular Prime setting them up to take more damage and explode on death, or the Torid gas-grenades that were softening them all up with corrosive, magnetic, or viral procs.  You might not even have caught the explosions from your buddy's tonkor getting fired into the clump around you.  And if you did spot these, you probably don't have a clear picture of just how much your, and their, respective contributions to the fight - much less the larger mission - were.

What's obvious is that you were running around, killing every enemy you saw, and never needed reviving even once - unlike the rest of your squad, who fortunately were at least able to keep each other revived when you were busy fighting off everything else for them.  Other frames don't lend themselves quite as much to this, but the basic idea is still there; it's easy to see what you're doing, but not what's going on everywhere else, and how these interact with mission objectives isn't always obvious.  From this perspective, it's not all that hard to reach the erroneous conclusion that you're pulling your weight, and a combination of ego and reflexive defensiveness when one of the other players starts yelling about how much you suck ², can even push this into believing that you were carrying the rest of the team.  And with 3 other people there, it's easy to shift blame when a mission is failed.

The only objective numbers that are easy to get ahold of are the stats section on the mission results screen.  And even ignoring how easy it is to not look at them, many aren't obvious in their significance, or fail to tell the whole story.  Damage dealt is fairly straightforward, though prone to underselling the performance of team members who focused more on buffing, debuffing, or other support abilities (one of my more commonly used primaries is a Torid that's built to proc status effects on everything that passes through its AoE.  While the damage doesn't exactly suck, on high-end missions, it does nearly guarantee that I'll have the lowest damage output.)  Damage taken, total kills, deaths and revives are also straightforward, but again don't give the whole picture.  Headshot kills offers no indication of the damage multiplier (or even more impressive crit multiplier) that headshots offer, and is right above melee kills, which I believe is just a vanity stat?  Updates Received and Pickup count are questionable in their value as a measure of anything (how much the player in question was moving around, and whether they have a sentinel or kubrow who can bring them treats, maybe?).  Abilities used and Fire Accuracy both make no allowances for the abilities - or weapons - being used.  Some abilities should be spammed for best effect, some offer little or no benefit to multiple castings, and some only need to be refreshed periodically should their duration expire.  Meanwhile, on the weapons side of things, the AoE weapons - simulor (synoid or otherwise) especially - are often not aimed with the intent of direct hits when they're being fired.

 

1: I like Valkyr.  In fact, she's pretty-much my go-to whenever the situation doesn't seem to call for a specific other frame.  However, the nature of her 4th power lends itself especially well to this problem.

2: It's common knowledge in online games that the people who talk the most smack about how bad their teammates are, are universally the worst players.