Low MR in Sorties

[Kokolalala]

46 minutes ago, Sziklamester said:

The mastery rank means nothing. Very person dependent whom skillful and whom less.

I don't think it means nothing. Sure, it's not precise, but it's the closes thing we have to measuring a player's aptitude at the game at the moment. Meaning a rough estimate of how long they've played and how much they've been exposed to based on our own experiences. In no way is it fact, they could have afk'd in Draco for all we know, but it's all we got and in no way can someone really judge what another is fully capable of like Power Levels in Dragon Ball Z. Hell, even power levels don't make sense, but I digress, MR gives a general idea of what a player has accumulated throughout their Warframe career and in turn a vague idea of their experiences of the game and their familiarty of its mechanics thus should be taken with a grain of salt.

On another note, I think we all tend to forget skill isn't all that matters as well, but gear and experience plays a big role in games too. You could be the most skillful player in Warframe, but won't last long without the proper equipment and you can't have the proper equipment without being experienced with the loadout you use or the modding mechanics of Warframe.

Edited April 3, 2016 by Viran

[Xaero]

1 hour ago, Educated_Beast said:

Not unless I'm asked.  Joining a match when your useless is rude.  Expecting free items is rude.  There are many other things to do in the game, they should come back when ready.  Expecting a carry versus asking for a carry are two very different things.  Maybe if your super elite self played some pugs instead of being a solo elitist you would realize that MR is actually a pretty good measuring tool.  Sure there are some exceptions, but those exceptions will not be low MR for long.  I also just do not see the exceptions everyone is talking about.  Most players < MR8 are not ready for sorties. 

In terms of player progression in this game I see 4 steps:

1) A newbie player who gets carried;

2) A newbie player that starts to understand the game's basics and sets his goals to become a skilled player:

3) A skilled player that knows what to do and how to do it, able to take care of himself;

4) A skilled player willing to help newbies, able to drag all the team by himself.

 

Sorties are not that hard to complete but they are still some kind of an endgame. While playing these missions with skilled players, newbies watch what those skilled players use and how they use it so it gets clearer for them what to aim at. It really helps at progression and getting more experienced.

Moreover, some low-MR players can cope with sorties not worse than any high-MR player (or even better).

 

Your suggestion is to restrict newbies from getting this sort of experience and to restrict skilled low-MR players that can easily handle sorties on their own. Because what? Because you are lazy? That is your problem.

My suggestion for players like you is to go with pre-made squads, if you are so annoyed by inexperienced players so no one has to suffer.

 

The only thing newbies should be restricted from is Draco, they learn nothing from there.

Edited April 3, 2016 by -Ksaero-

[WrathAscending]

2 hours ago, LABAL said:

And we'll get the story with cosmic spectres all over again.
Conclave rating is meaningless and obsolete.

Conclave has its oddities, yes.

However to exceed 1.2K or so you need to be using decent equipment with Forma and high-level if not maxed mods.

Low Conclave can be cheesed (I used to run a Hysteria Valk for when things were set to 3-5 hundred, so I know the system can be gamed) but high Conclave rating has a much stronger correlation with a good loadout along with the skill and experience to use it properly than Mastery Rank does.

[Leavith]

2 minutes ago, -Ksaero- said:

 

Sorties are not that hard to complete but they are still some kind of an endgame. Playing these missions with skilled players, newbies watch what those skilled players use and how they use it so it gets clearer for them what to aim at. It really helps at progression and getting more experienced.

Moreover, some low-MR players can cope with sorties not worse than any high-MR player (or even better).

The only thing newbies should be restricted from is Draco, they learn nothing from there.

Now I am disagree with you on the part I snip...

regarding newbies learning from skilled players.

One they don't understand because they don't know the background of the idea

Two they cannot copy because they lack the full concept of the equipment use and mods

Three their aim point is not what you may believe as for example If I am a new player and know sorti is hard and I decide to run it will not be for establishing a goal it will be for getting a reward.

Four gaining more experience no...getting more knowledge yes,but no wisdom to use that knowledge wisely which is why people still run energy syphon against the grineer or against the Jordas-G3 golem

 

As for being restricted for Draco yeah why not

[Andaius]

MR isn't really indicative of power, just variety for the most part. Since gaining higher masteries only happens as you Rank up more weapons. You can have few but strong weaponry. 

[Leavith]

1 minute ago, Andaius said:

MR isn't really indicative of power, just variety for the most part. Since gaining higher masteries only happens as you Rank up more weapons. You can have few but strong weaponry. 

yeah we know but about rank 8 is about the time when you have variety of warframe and weapons as well as level mods that is why we are even discussing this because you know we are talking mastery rank 8 not mastery rank 14+

[----Fenrir----]

10 hours ago, armedpoop said:

Mastery Rank has almost no bearing on actual skill anymore. 

No, but there is a strong correlation between MR and available weapons and mods. Mister MR4 with his Volt and his half modded Mk1 Kunai's is simply not going to be very useful killing level 80-100 enemies.

And yes, I saw low MR guys with MK1 weapons in Sortie missions. And no, they usually did not do well at all to put it mildly

[DakotaStorm]

This thread is ridiculous, why should someone like me be locked out of missions because I can't be bothered to level up sh**ty weapons? I currently have at least 7 partially leveled weapons and frames, because I don't like them and have no intention of maxing them. 

Therefore my mastery gain is slow, how darebyou elitests suggest locking people out of content, if someone joins your mission that can't handle it and is dying every 30 seconds, then simply stop reviving them bit don't you dare suggest blocking them from at least experiencing the missions. 

[(PSN)Eluminary]

Basically go to recruiting make your team or go in with randoms prepared to solo it.

 

I actually kinda like it though.  The past 2 days all in my random sorti groups were loke 4 and 5.  Having new players watch in aw what you can do at the top of a warframes power... Meditate at extraction at the end while they bow to you.  

[S3EK3R]

6 minutes ago, DakotaStorm said:

This thread is ridiculous, why should someone like me be locked out of missions because I can't be bothered to level up sh**ty weapons? I currently have at least 7 partially leveled weapons and frames, because I don't like them and have no intention of maxing them. 

Therefore my mastery gain is slow, how darebyou elitests suggest locking people out of content, if someone joins your mission that can't handle it and is dying every 30 seconds, then simply stop reviving them bit don't you dare suggest blocking them from at least experiencing the missions. 

Sure. Now everyone needs to use an MK-1 Braton in T4 Srv to cater to people. You didn't bother to level up weapons, it's not my fault. There's 200+ weapons and 20+ frames in this game. DO NOT DARE TO TELL ME YOU CAN'T BE BOTHERED TO REACH RANK 8. Sorties are endgame. It's not for noobs. You reach rank 8, you can play PUG sorties. Until then, get a squad that wants to carry you. Do not force others to do your job and then blame them for wanting to lock you out.

 

On a sidenote, Conclave rating is useless because mods have different values. A full ranked Serration is worth less then a single status mod. Not a good measure.

[Xaero]

44 minutes ago, Leavith said:

Three their aim point is not what you may believe as for example If I am a new player and know sorti is hard and I decide to run it will not be for establishing a goal it will be for getting a reward.

You go there for any reason, then you see skilled players, you watch what they use, how they move and so on, then you ask them what you didn't understand. This happens to me a lot so, as I already said, restricting newbies from playing sorties is a stupid waste of potential and is totally not needed. You already have an option not to play with them, there's no need to make someone's game worse.

[sh00chu]

Sorties and Raids should be locked behind completing the star chart. Every single node. It may sound a bit harsh. but this would ensure that a player of any MR would be able to participate, regardless of how many pieces of gear they've acquired. It would also ensure that the person had experienced virtually every type of content the game has to offer, and as a side-effect, would likely have all of the mods needed to properly outfit their chosen loadout. In addition to that, I think that being taxied should be gotten rid of completely. All of this would serve to create an actual sense of progression and accomplishment as well as incentivizing actually playing the game. Just my 2 cents.

[Tacritan]

36 minutes ago, DakotaStorm said:

This thread is ridiculous, why should someone like me be locked out of missions because I can't be bothered to level up sh**ty weapons? I currently have at least 7 partially leveled weapons and frames, because I don't like them and have no intention of maxing them. 

Therefore my mastery gain is slow, how darebyou elitests suggest locking people out of content, if someone joins your mission that can't handle it and is dying every 30 seconds, then simply stop reviving them bit don't you dare suggest blocking them from at least experiencing the missions. 

Yep, and you are totally usefull with that ash spamming bladestorm dealing no damage. At least got some usefull, team oriented warframes, they are mantadory for sorties.

[TrinityPrime]

2 hours ago, Educated_Beast said:

Like mastery tests...   Maybe 8 of them is the right number :)

 

 

Well if you really think the some target practice (MR6), killing some level 15 enemies (MR7), and some parkour (MR8) is adequate prep for sorties over the current MR5 rank restriction then I can't argue with opinion but it would be nice if they could at least survive on their own against level 50s and or do level 30 spy missions without triggering the vault alarms and without relying on ciphers.

[DakotaStorm]

31 minutes ago, S3EK3R said:

Sure. Now everyone needs to use an MK-1 Braton in T4 Srv to cater to people. You didn't bother to level up weapons, it's not my fault. There's 200+ weapons and 20+ frames in this game. DO NOT DARE TO TELL ME YOU CAN'T BE BOTHERED TO REACH RANK 8. Sorties are endgame. It's not for noobs. You reach rank 8, you can play PUG sorties. Until then, get a squad that wants to carry you. Do not force others to do your job and then blame them for wanting to lock you out.

 

On a sidenote, Conclave rating is useless because mods have different values. A full ranked Serration is worth less then a single status mod. Not a good measure.

Where did I say I didn't have a decent kit?

Where did I say I wasn't rank 8? 

I have a fairly decent loadout thankyou very much and can hold my own through most of the content.  Most of the weapons are crap and not fun to use so why should I slog out 30 levels on a myraid of junk weapons? 

And FYI I'm rank 7, by the time I've finished leveling my current from, I'd have reached 8.

[Soulden]

Sitting at rank 15. I usually one of those getting carried.

MR should not be used to restrict low MR, skilled players from the Sorties.

There is always recruitment.

Edited April 3, 2016 by Souldend78

[DakotaStorm]

1 hour ago, S3EK3R said:

54 minutes ago, Tacritan said:

Yep, and you are totally usefull with that ash spamming bladestorm dealing no damage. At least got some usefull, team oriented warframes, they are mantadory for sorties.

Screwed up the quotes. Delete please

[DakotaStorm]

56 minutes ago, Tacritan said:

Yep, and you are totally usefull with that ash spamming bladestorm dealing no damage. At least got some usefull, team oriented warframes, they are mantadory for sorties.

 

I don't even have ash 

I main excal and Loki prime. 

I've run 2 sorties and one tac alert, I've had no trouble with either. 

[helghastgunner]

I'm gonn leave my $0.02 here ..long post so let's go :D

• Firstly, I think the restriction to MR8 should be a thing(as long as lens and nezha are moved to somewhere....decent),by MR8 you have everything except the syndicate primary weapons available to use, this gives the players the best variety they can have(we DO have certain weapon only missions..i doubt the majority of MR4-7 have a maxed: AR,bow,sniper,shotgun,pistol and melee and not to mention a variety of frames to do certain tasks)
• MR cannot and shouldn't equal skill...
  Spoiler

  I mean think about it, we ONLY have to max the item, it dosen't require forma,certain number of kills, headshot kills,kill assits etc

   

• ...This game also isn't one to gauge players skill in when..uh there's not much to master it!
  Spoiler

  Now now...lower the forks and torches ..the game is still great don't get me wrong but..well skill wise not much, you can last long in a solo survival which is something to be proud of but..its basically I(tenno) one shot you then enemies eventually one shot us or use cheap tactics, its cover the playing field with CC or die basically

  A horde mode game that got skill right IMO was the assassin Zero from borderlands 2

• I may have side tracked a little but ehh

[H3addy]

MR6 or even 8 would be good. It's not hard to get there even for ppl who dont play that often. I don't think sorties should be 'almost' insta-accesible, like it is now. I met some good low MR Tenno, but the number of unprepared ones is surely higher.

Dont think of this as a locking rewards or experience away from ppl, but rather something you have to work, grind or even Draco for. To deserve it.

Tenno who dont wanna rank mastery up, there is always trading channel or clanmates.

Just my opinion on this :)

[Leavith]

1 hour ago, Souldend78 said:

Sitting at rank 15. I usually one of those getting carried.

MR should not be used to restrict low MR, skilled players from the Sorties.

There is always recruitment.

How about if low master rank players wish to play sorti they use recruiting, Because sorti was intended to be End-Game and was also intended to be challenging(which I find it that people complain and then they nerf sorti)

2 hours ago, DakotaStorm said:

This thread is ridiculous, why should someone like me be locked out of missions because I can't be bothered to level up sh**ty weapons? I currently have at least 7 partially leveled weapons and frames, because I don't like them and have no intention of maxing them. 

Therefore my mastery gain is slow, how darebyou elitests suggest locking people out of content, if someone joins your mission that can't handle it and is dying every 30 seconds, then simply stop reviving them bit don't you dare suggest blocking them from at least experiencing the missions. 

Is not that you should be lock out of a mission or anything lets say they Lock it at mastery rank 6 your are required to have 90,000 that means 15 warframes/companions/archwing are to reach mastery rank 30 or 30 weapons are to reach mastery rank 30

If they lock it at mastery rank 8 that means 26.6 more like 27 warframes/companions/archwings are to reach mastery rank 30 or 54 weapons are to reach mastery rank 30

Let say you play warframe and you buy no weapons slots

you have 2 companion kubrow slots 12,000

you have 4 companion sentinel slots 24,000

you have 4 weapons sentinel slots 12,000

you have 2 warframe slots 12,000

you have 6 if I am not mistaken weapon slots 18,000

You also get Your archwing 6,000

You get your 2 archwing wepons 6,000

It falls right on the Mastery rank 6 mark....with 90,000 total mastery rank points and you have not wasted a single amount on slots,since cataclysm/Reactors/forma/Exilus slots are acquirable

So yeah I am Fine with someone being locked out because for starters all the actual decision choices you get without the game providing you any equipment are

4 companion sentinals/4 Guns

2 Kubrow slots

1 warframe slot

3 weapon slots

So if you didn't sell your MK-1 series /archwing gun/1st warframe then that is really all the room you have

and to get to rank 8 you would need 70,000 more exp points so now that I painted a picture you see that getting to mastery rank 6 is not hard even if you only level up the stuff you like of each area the game provides. And getting to rank 8 is just a little bit more dedication and nothing absurd as making you LEVEL UP A BUCNH OF TRASH WEAPONS

Most people have

4 warframe-24,000-2 warframe slot 40 plats

10 Weapons-30,000-2x Weapon slot pair 24 plats

2 sentinels+Gun-18,000

1 kubrow-6,000

1 Archwing set-12,000

90,000 exp just from the usual

So yeah I am not sure mastery rank 6 is big lock up this is just for the usual normal player that is not hardcore and plays only what he likes. Without including event weapons or gifts

Note you get Broken War-meaning an extra 3,000

1 hour ago, -Ksaero- said:

You go there for any reason, then you see skilled players, you watch what they use, how they move and so on, then you ask them what you didn't understand. This happens to me a lot so, as I already said, restricting newbies from playing sorties is a stupid waste of potential and is totally not needed. You already have an option not to play with them, there's no need to make someone's game worse.

Well you must play in a whole different world then me my sorti experience with all low mastery rank players are that they Die because I am never their to cover their back.

And now is not a stupid waste because if they wanted to learn they can play the other content because sure as saying that going to sorti will not teach them anything they wouldn't have learn doing Void or planet endless mission. To be more exact because they do Sorti it could ruined the potential because they get narrow minded on what they think is good because they see someone using it.

Like clear example ever seen a chroma in Sorti?or a Limbo?Hydroid?Wukong?

Of course I have not but I bring them with me Chroma is good for Survival mission

Limbo is good for Mobile defense and Defense.

Hydroid is perfect for Interception

And Wukong good for exterminate/spy

See I goto sorti I see mirage no problem she is good at what she does which is why she is prefer over Excalibur blind...but then I goto regular mission were the level potential isn't so needed and I see the same concept with the mirage not the Excalibur ...yes the blind is good but is easier to kill them since they don't have much Hp...but because what someone sees in high level content they copy that and bring it to low level content and they are not efficient or effective because lets face it Ash Max range and efficiency is better for fighting low level enemy then Ash max Strenght and efficiency is...but you see people go Str then range because of what they are used to.

I always run Warframes that I feel I am more comfortable with using for the mission and the weapons that is to give me the edge with the enemy and build I am using, So I am not running a full babysit my team build but a build that helps me get the job done if my team goes down.

Edited April 3, 2016 by Leavith

[Soulden]

1 minute ago, Leavith said:

How about if low master rank players wish to play sorti they use recruiting,

Both ways is how it always has been. Not sure why the forcing resctrictions on people who join public knowing their chances.

As a self proclaimed pro (MR wise) you know how the system works, but only want that system to work for you.

And thats how entitlement works.

 

[Leavith]

1 minute ago, Souldend78 said:

Both ways is how it always has been. Not sure why the forcing resctrictions on people who join public knowing their chances.

As a self proclaimed pro (MR wise) you know how the system works, but only want that system to work for you.

And thats how entitlement works.

 

Well the content was introduce with what purposes?To be end game content with the entertainment of veteran players

The content also rewards with rewards that are hard to acquire for what purpose?To give end game players the chance to acquire good they would not be able to and keep them busy

You see if low mastery rank player wants to be carried he should ask someone to not self invite themselves. Into a mission.And is specially worst when they are host.

If they PuG sorti are locked behind a mastery rank it would make sure that the chances of you getting stuck with baggage and something to carry become less and comradely and teamwork is more likely to happened.

Now if someone wants to carry Low mastery rank player to sorti they can just keep them in your party...because I don't do a survival mission to have mid way in the mission have to deal with a host that can't keep himself alive has gotten pick up many times and we all decided to let him be drop dead and he quits....we would have gotten a better deal if we had someone else.

No i know one ever checks the stats of someone in public but because their is no hey you got to at least be this tall for your own safety to ride this ride sign people get stuck in groups that are waste of time...specially when the host is the leader of the group your doing a good job and then suddenly he dies and quits.

Notice this case to occur more often then not.

Then we got the scenario were they come to just leech not even try at it so yeah a good solid mastery rank 6 or 8 is pretty good bar no one get hurt nothing is lost and is not impossible is actually very possible

[Soulden]

2 minutes ago, Leavith said:

Well the content was introduce with what purposes?To be end game content with the entertainment of veteran players

The content also rewards with rewards that are hard to acquire for what purpose?To give end game players the chance to acquire good they would not be able to and keep them busy

You see if low mastery rank player wants to be carried he should ask someone to not self invite themselves. Into a mission.And is specially worst when they are host.

If they PuG sorti are locked behind a mastery rank it would make sure that the chances of you getting stuck with baggage and something to carry become less and comradely and teamwork is more likely to happened.

Now if someone wants to carry Low mastery rank player to sorti they can just keep them in your party...because I don't do a survival mission to have mid way in the mission have to deal with a host that can't keep himself alive has gotten pick up many times and we all decided to let him be drop dead and he quits....we would have gotten a better deal if we had someone else.

No i know one ever checks the stats of someone in public but because their is no hey you got to at least be this tall for your own safety to ride this ride sign people get stuck in groups that are waste of time...specially when the host is the leader of the group your doing a good job and then suddenly he dies and quits.

Notice this case to occur more often then not.

Then we got the scenario were they come to just leech not even try at it so yeah a good solid mastery rank 6 or 8 is pretty good bar no one get hurt nothing is lost and is not impossible is actually very possible

I had MR20 afks on publics, restric as well right?

[Leavith]

4 minutes ago, Souldend78 said:

I had MR20 afks on publics, restric as well right?

we need a better afk system....

and you said MR20 afk in public you mean matches or Sorti

cause here in one end we got someone who can help but chooses not to help ...on the other end we got someone who cannot help and choose not to help

the end result is the same but the fact being I would prefer someone I can try convince to help and won't be picking him up  of the ground so often in comparison to someone that even trying to get his help would be pointless since it would be still no change same scenario.

But that is a problem of people Afk in public game.

Right now let say we lock sorti with mastery rank....now look we can cross of the list of potential thing that will hold the team back or take the spot of a potential good player.

Yeah we have the same amount of chance of getting someone who is gonna afk but getting someone who is gonna afk and getting someone who cannot do anything is the same thing.But just two different group.

One can be fix with setting a proper Afk punishment system the other can be fixed with setting up a lock. While they may be in the same category as people who you carry in a mission the difference is that you handle and can solve this problem differently ...and the solution to one problem will not solve the other.so they need their own solution.