Low MR in Sorties

[MagPrime]

6 minutes ago, Leavith said:

Well my friend be more clear....regarding Mod choice or frame

If you cannot solo against a simple test that mimics a sorti then what business do you have with sorit.

Like here You have no experience with a warframe then that warframe has no business being used in sorti

If you log in to play with their friend then play another mission people do sorti for the reward and hardcore aspect out of it(not sure about that last part)

Forcing a Kind of test will Filter people who can do sorti/provide support/and can carry themselves.

So, people that play for fun with friends are to be measured by your stick, and if they fail, they are locked out of rewarding content?  No.

Split the MR req's and the people that you've deemed unworthy of playing Sorties are not an issue, for you or anyone else, because they're either forced into a Solo run or finding a team that can handle their needs. 

As has been said hundreds, if not thousands, of times; this is a co-op game.  How can you justify removing an aspect of the game for a group of players, just because they don't play as "hard core" as you?

And what do you mean by be more clear regarding mod choice or 'frame?  It's pretty obvious; some players are limited by their available mods, how far they've ranked them, as well as what 'frames they have available.  I personally would find a player like that a burden, depending, in a public Sortie but in a private, premade one where we all know going in what to expect, I have no issues; we know how to compensate and everyone gets to have fun and receive something of value. 

[Leavith]

4 minutes ago, Noamuth said:

So, people that play for fun with friends are to be measured by your stick, and if they fail, they are locked out of rewarding content?  No.

Split the MR req's and the people that you've deemed unworthy of playing Sorties are not an issue, for you or anyone else, because they're either forced into a Solo run or finding a team that can handle their needs. 

As has been said hundreds, if not thousands, of times; this is a co-op game.  How can you justify removing an aspect of the game for a group of players, just because they don't play as "hard core" as you?

And what do you mean by be more clear regarding mod choice or 'frame?  It's pretty obvious; some players are limited by their available mods, how far they've ranked them, as well as what 'frames they have available.  I personally would find a player like that a burden, depending, in a public Sortie but in a private, premade one where we all know going in what to expect, I have no issues; we know how to compensate and everyone gets to have fun and receive something of value. 

I play for fun.....and I still can do sorti solo and with friends. And i am sure as heck saying that if you fail at something you should not be rewarded that is like saying i fail at getting a good grade in my class so they should pass me.You up for no child left behind right.Now considering Sorti specially extermination they aren't hard, and locked out of rewarding content not exactly is more like getting locked out of content that is to difficult for them to play.

And as for being unworthy to play content isn't that how progression is establish look my friend if your playing a game of chess is the pawn gonna tell the queen I should be a queen because i can move forward?Nope the pawn is gonna progress to the end of the board and get promoted to be a queen. Your not just worthy because you want to be specially when content is created to be hard and end-game.ANd yes they are in issue if i could automatically get a team were i know the people on my team can do their task things would be easier and i can actually play and have fun.

THIS IS A CO-OP game but no one plays this game for Co-Op intention because everyone rushes and because how public matches work. Look have you ever seen people talking to each other in public match that is not trolling or being a jerk. I have and is rare and it usually only happened when my team consist on people who are competent to do the task of the mission.is a Co-Op game were people work together to complete a task -Not people babysit each other or people get carried.Their is no Co-OP if the team member brings nothing to the table. If is you having to baby sit and carry someone then is not Co-OP is just you doubling your work to carry someone.

It means be more clear i cannot see any warframe having a problem against the Melee units of enemy faction.And yes players can be limited to available mods but you don't need al your mad max or all your mods to kill an enemy you only need decent gear and the minimum requirements oh yeah and Dodge.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvS6zMThiZU

Yeah i am okay for Private matches to be unlocked for sorti if someone want to carry someone else you get my go ahead but for public let them pass a test before they decide to go in their is a good filter.

And lets not be that Guy

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Dilbert+that+guy&view=detailv2&id=58DFBE8AC941B9FE8120610297AF5CE03070849E&selectedindex=1&ccid=NP4%2BCEly&simid=607995884901302306&thid=OIP.M34fe3e08497284c7c0711dcc234011fdo0&mode=overlay&first=1

 

[MagPrime]

2 minutes ago, Leavith said:

I play for fun.....and I still can do sorti solo and with friends. And i am sure as heck saying that if you fail at something you should not be rewarded that is like saying i fail at getting a good grade in my class so they should pass me.You up for no child left behind right.Now considering Sorti specially extermination they aren't hard, and locked out of rewarding content not exactly is more like getting locked out of content that is to difficult for them to play.

And as for being unworthy to play content isn't that how progression is establish look my friend if your playing a game of chess is the pawn gonna tell the queen I should be a queen because i can move forward?Nope the pawn is gonna progress to the end of the board and get promoted to be a queen. Your not just worthy because you want to be specially when content is created to be hard and end-game.ANd yes they are in issue if i could automatically get a team were i know the people on my team can do their task things would be easier and i can actually play and have fun.

THIS IS A CO-OP game but no one plays this game for Co-Op intention because everyone rushes and because how public matches work. Look have you ever seen people talking to each other in public match that is not trolling or being a jerk. I have and is rare and it usually only happened when my team consist on people who are competent to do the task of the mission.is a Co-Op game were people work together to complete a task -Not people babysit each other or people get carried.Their is no Co-OP if the team member brings nothing to the table. If is you having to baby sit and carry someone then is not Co-OP is just you doubling your work to carry someone.

It means be more clear i cannot see any warframe having a problem against the Melee units of enemy faction.And yes players can be limited to available mods but you don't need al your mad max or all your mods to kill an enemy you only need decent gear and the minimum requirements oh yeah and Dodge.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvS6zMThiZU

Yeah i am okay for Private matches to be unlocked for sorti if someone want to carry someone else you get my go ahead but for public let them pass a test before they decide to go in their is a good filter.

And lets not be that Guy

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Dilbert+that+guy&view=detailv2&id=58DFBE8AC941B9FE8120610297AF5CE03070849E&selectedindex=1&ccid=NP4%2BCEly&simid=607995884901302306&thid=OIP.M34fe3e08497284c7c0711dcc234011fdo0&mode=overlay&first=1

 

Congrats, you're That Guy.

 

[Leavith]

7 minutes ago, Noamuth said:

Congrats, you're That Guy.

 

Alright i am that guy then...If you say so.

But let get back to the discussion the issue is people who cannot do Sorti/provide support/or be functional to the team in a match being able to join this high end content slowing down the progress or them having to be carried by the member taking the fun from the team instead of being Co-OP is now Babysitting.

SO Yeah the solution of a test fixes this not everyone can be happy you know and a master rank will not show anything apart from weapons owned. Which in turn means nothing since it could hide lack of Mods and skills.

In honest manner a test is appropriate no one is in a loose end here unless you cannot kill an enemy and you cannot dodge(which is Why i chosen exterminate).I wouldn't say is the best solution but may be the best solution as of now until better mechanics and reworks are placed. Fixes the problem.

 

 

Edited April 4, 2016 by Leavith

[MagPrime]

Just now, Leavith said:

Alright i am that guy then...

But let get back to the discussion the issue is people who cannot do Sorti/provide support/or be functional to the team in a match being able to join this high end content slowing down the progress or them having to be carried by the member taking the fun from the team instead of being Co-OP is now Babysitting.

SO Yeah the solution of a test fixes this not everyone can be happy you know and a master rank will not show anything apart from weapons owned. Which in turn means nothing since it could hide lack of Mods and skills.

In honest manner a test is appropriate no one is in a loose end here unless you cannot kill an enemy and you cannot dodge.

 

 

And I still disagree entirely with the idea of a test - what you are describing as the ideal progression/player skill is arbitrary and doesn't apply to everyone.  

Again, not everyone is here to prove that they're hard core, some just want to play with their friends.  Not everyone has the time to devote to passing a Sortie Test, and that's locking people out of content; that's not necessary.

Honestly, if a Sortie Test is put in place, then we need a Raid Test, because that's supposedly end game as well.  And while we're at it, let's have a Relay test, to make sure that you have the correct social skills to be in a Relay and understand how to use the elevators.  Oh! And let's not forget a planetary progression test!  Boss fights just don't cut it; if you're going to party on Ceres, you have to go take a test to prove that you understand how Grineer work.  

The idea of a Sortie test is arbitrary, exclusive to casual players and harmful overall. Giving the playerbase more options will always go over more than gated content.

And yes, I do understand the idea of progression, but sticking in a test like you're describing doesn't fit Warframe because there is no standard progression in this game, at all. I understand wanting to add some, I've made a couple posts about it in the past, but once DE has implemented a better progression system (well, implemented one at all) then topics like these are a non issue. 

[Leavith]

9 minutes ago, Noamuth said:

And I still disagree entirely with the idea of a test - what you are describing as the ideal progression/player skill is arbitrary and doesn't apply to everyone.  

Again, not everyone is here to prove that they're hard core, some just want to play with their friends.  Not everyone has the time to devote to passing a Sortie Test, and that's locking people out of content; that's not necessary.

Honestly, if a Sortie Test is put in place, then we need a Raid Test, because that's supposedly end game as well.  And while we're at it, let's have a Relay test, to make sure that you have the correct social skills to be in a Relay and understand how to use the elevators.  Oh! And let's not forget a planetary progression test!  Boss fights just don't cut it; if you're going to party on Ceres, you have to go take a test to prove that you understand how Grineer work.  

The idea of a Sortie test is arbitrary, exclusive to casual players and harmful overall. Giving the playerbase more options will always go over more than gated content.

And yes, I do understand the idea of progression, but sticking in a test like you're describing doesn't fit Warframe because there is no standard progression in this game, at all. I understand wanting to add some, I've made a couple posts about it in the past, but once DE has implemented a better progression system (well, implemented one at all) then topics like these are a non issue. 

You a bit going of the deep end.

The thread discussion is regarding basic idea of people who don't and can't compete in Sorti being in Sorti as of public matches.Not saying private or Invited just public matches.

And as for Raid that in itself is has is own performance to reaching it that you have to do.

As for the rest of the stuff you mention you hopefully not being serious because that is really just laughable to suggest because that is excessive and exaggerated way things tht are not being said or suggested....

The idea of a Sorti test is not arbitrary...because is a solution to the problem of people who cannot truly accomplish content in co-op environment being able to enter this environments in a public match.

And yeah so the last part basically says Their is no standard progression so we should not set up a standard progression because we don't one .While we need a standard progression we don't have even if i think one should be put in.Everything begins in a place my friend.

Edited April 4, 2016 by Leavith

[MagPrime]

1 minute ago, Leavith said:

You a bit going of the deep end.

The thread discussion is regarding basic idea of people who don't and can't compete in Sorti being in Sorti as of public matches.Not saying private or Invited just public matches.

And as for Raid that in itself is has is own performance to reaching it that you have to do.

As for the rest of the stuff you mention you hopefully not being serious because that is really just laughable to suggest because that is excessive and exaggerated way things tht are not being said or suggested....

The idea of a Sorti test is not arbitrary...because is a solution to the problem of people who cannot truly accomplish content in co-op environment being able to enter this environments in a public match.

And yeah so the last part basically says Their is no standard progression so we should not set up a standard progression because we don't one .While we need a standard progression we don't have even if i think one should be put in.Everything begins in a place my friend.

[Yzjdriel]

"MR isn't a good measure of ability"

"MR isn't indicative of ability"

"MR is bad reference for skill"

Yeah, no shist.  Good job, go pat yourselves on the back or something.

MR isn't a measure of skill, we all know that.  What it IS, however, is a measure of what level of equipment you have access to.  If you're MR 4, you can't use the vast majority of the weapons that are REQUIRED to not die in sortie, nor can you claim you've had time to get all the mods you need for your Warframe.  MR 4 can be achieved in 5 days (I know this because that's how long it took me).

However, at MR 4 you can get this thing called the Tigris.  And as we all know, that gun is friggin' boss.

"Oh, but Sancti Tigris is better"

Yeah, it is.  So what?  Before Sancti Tigris was announced we were perfectly content with the standard one as an "endgame" weapon.

 

Therefore, Sorties should be locked, not by MR, but by something more suited to judge skill.

You can't be good at this game without putting time into it, but hours would NOT be a good way to gate ANYTHING.

 

I would suggest putting a wall on Sorties until you've got a certain Conclave Level with your equipment: proving that you have modded appropriately.

[Leavith]

8 minutes ago, Noamuth said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Look man i am just gonna go out and say that i think your point is you support Co-Op play and friend being able to play with one another regardless the content if that is not your point then please clear that up for me.

Edited April 4, 2016 by Leavith

[MagPrime]

Just now, Leavith said:

Look man i am just gonna go out and say your point is you support Co-Op play and friend ebing able to play with one another if that is not your point then please clear that up for me.

That's only what I've been posting for the last few hours.  Well, that and Sortie tests aren't a good move. 

[Leavith]

Just now, Noamuth said:

That's only what I've been posting for the last few hours.  Well, that and Sortie tests aren't a good move. 

You do know what discussion are right is not a good move but is the best one to handle the situation as of present until a better one can be put in place.If people main issue is that they have to carry and babysit people who cannot play the content at the minimum requirement being able to have access to the content .Then a Test that check if you have the stuff to complete this content would be a good start until a better one can be implemented.

yes is not quiet friendly but it is effective for dealing with the problem.

[MagPrime]

2 minutes ago, Leavith said:

You do know what discussion are right is not a good move but is the best one to handle the situation as of present until a better one can be put in place.If people main issue is that they have to carry and babysit people who cannot play the content at the minimum requirement being able to have access to the content .Then a Test that check if you have the stuff to complete this content would be a good start until a better one can be implemented.

yes is not quiet friendly but it is effective for dealing with the problem.

Honestly, there's no point in continuing this.  

Have a good day, Leavith. 

[(PSN)horridhal]

30 minutes ago, Leavith said:

yes is not quiet friendly but it is effective for dealing with the problem.

A more effective way of dealing with the problem would entail you forming your own parties in order to tackle high-end content instead of relying on Public matches to fill out your squad.

Doing the above would allow everyone access to the content and ensure you, and others who don't like carrying low MR players, never have to do so.

[Leavith]

1 minute ago, (PS4)horridhal said:

A more effective way of dealing with the problem would entail you forming your own parties in order to tackle high-end content instead of relying on Public matches to fill out your squad.

Doing the above would allow everyone access to the content and ensure you, and others who don't like carrying low MR players, never have to do so.

The things is the quicker way to filling your team should be for those that can handle high end content, and the recruiting way should be for those that want to be carried and baby sited.

Doing this everyone can still access Sorti but the quicker way is available for those who can actually handle instead of the other way around.

[Amphytrion]

On 02/04/2016 at 0:42 AM, (PS4)Gangalito said:

I do sorties every day.  I almost always PUG them as most of my friends don't do them since they aren't worth much on console.  One thing I see over and over is the constant presence of low MR.  I'm talking about MR 5 or lower.  I'm not trying to hate my fellow Tenno.  I get it, we all wanna get the awesome loots.

The problem however is that I'm am tired of carrying these low MR individuals, and they are in just about every sortie mission I play.  It's basically the equivalent of a level 10 character in WoW jumping in to an end game raid.  An MR 5 or lower trying to kill or survive level 80+ enemies is ridiculous.  The power levels are completely unbalanced.  You can't even use syndicate weapons until MR12, but you can participate in one of the most challenging ("challenging") parts of warframe.  IMO MR8 should be the absolute lowest possible allowed.  This seems to be where, even though they'll still struggle, people are able to contribute in a meaningful way without dying repeatedly.

I guess I just don't understand the reasoning behind this and frankly, as already stated, I'm tired of carrying them as they either sit in a corner and do nothing, or die over and over forcing me to ignore them or res them 10+ times in a mission.  I understand wanting new players to experience content, but high MR's are being burdened with what is just poor progression scaling.

 

PS. No lowbie hate, just love, but we all gotta work towards something.

When you pug you know what you signing up for plus you just went ahead and said "Challenging", by that i take it they are not all together difficult so why bother creating a thread? No there is no level limit, yes you sign up on your own, if you dont like it, either

1->Dont do it

2->Make yourself a party and limit the MR you want in

simple as that

[(PSN)horridhal]

5 minutes ago, Leavith said:

The things is the quicker way to filling your team should be for those that can handle high end content, and the recruiting way should be for those that want to be carried and baby sited.

Doing this everyone can still access Sorti but the quicker way is available for those who can actually handle instead of the other way around.

Actually recruiting is just the opposite.  It is for people who want specific squad compositions or MR players to find other players they need to fill out their missions.  PuG's are, and always have been, a way to match yourself randomly with a group and hope for the best.  You are contending that the two are opposite which is, basically, completely wrong.

In the way I described, everyone has easy access to the mission.  In the way you described, players are locked out.  One of those is obviously the better of the two choices, I'll leave it up to you to sort that out for yourself, though.

[AnonNyx]

In a lot of the other games that I have played it has always been form your own party for the criteria you desire.  Public games/random matchmaking is just that, random and for anyone to join. If you are upset at how something is intended to work, then don't use it and use what was provided (recruitment chat, party former, etc...).

All the MR gate will do is force people to power level their way to that "magic" number to be able to access the content they want to try.  At that point you will trade the chance of a person knowing what the game is about for a person who just rushed their way through stuff and not really understand anything but press button, rinse, repeat.

In addition, the gate will severely limit people who wish to play the game on their own terms just to match your justification that MR"X" is "experienced enough".  I don't know about others, but I do not have all night/day to sit on the game and play to level up mastery.  I play in bits and spurts to get what I need and continue on from there, and do like to do the Sortie missions when I have the time.  Due to the decrease in time I level up my mastery quite slower (most times I forget about it) than anyone whom might have more free time than me, or just sits on Draco for hours on end.  The point being is that because of my perceived play time (MR) it would limit me to enjoy or try out the content provided to me.

Also completing the the solar system, seriously?  I still haven't unlocked every node. This is simply because, there are a lot of them, they can be quite daunting to run through them and can be quite boring running through the same mission types all the time. To force that on someone would be like scooping out your eyeballs with a rusty spoon.  Not enjoyable for anyone.  Would the Starmap 3.0 fix this? Who knows.  But at the current moment it is quite a daunting prospect for a new player.

Lastly, don't you think that if DE intended Sorties to be MR locked that it would have done so when they implemented it like the Second Dream?

Edited April 4, 2016 by AnonNyx

[(XBOX)Edatakimasu]

On 4/3/2016 at 0:27 AM, (PS4)Uio937 said:

Liar liar plants for hire

How do you manage to play a MR 4 locked mission at 3

EDIT: Darn you Noamuth, beat me to it

Beccause 4 and 3 are 1 level apart? GENIUS!

[(XBOX)Edatakimasu]

On 4/3/2016 at 0:25 AM, Noamuth said:

Sorties are locked at MR4 IIRC, how did you manage to do them at MR3?

1.  Get a job.

2.  Unless this game can show you how many sorties i've finished, again, get a job.

[(PSN)H3x3wahn]

I'll be honest. I've done only a couple of sorties and I know very well that my damage output is not nearly enough against lvl100, which is why I usually simply run a support role, mostly a bless Trin and it worked very well for me so far. A good blessing Trin build isn't out of reach of newer players, so as long as they can accept that their contribution to the team is a supportive one, they should be able to run with such a build, like I did. In the end, what I wanted to say was simply that anyone smart enough can figure a way to contribute to their team with what they have and, trust me, your team will be grateful if you help them survive as a buffer/healer, especially 99% Blessing Trin.

#Trinmastersupport

[MagPrime]

7 hours ago, (XB1)SooperSmurph said:

1.  Get a job.

2.  Unless this game can show you how many sorties i've finished, again, get a job.

I have a job, and what does this have to do with my question?

Even if "4 and 3 are only 1 level apart" the game wont allow you to play the Sortie if it's locked at 4.  So either you made a typo and aren't willing to admit it, for some weird reason, or you're making things up.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Noamuth

[AsianLyf]

On 4/4/2016 at 1:25 PM, Leavith said:

-snip-

 

Your grammar makes it very hard for someone to read your argument and justify what you are saying.

[(PSN)SupeBoss]

not sure people are denying the very noticeable correlation between low MR and poor team contribution.

9 times out of 10, the MR5 will not contribute much, if at all, in a Tier 2/3 sortie. I'm sure everyone has that "one time," but what about the other 50?
I know that we have the cool-guy MR4's with 3000hrs of game time that don't level up for whatever reason. Who cares.

MR4 is way too early a rank for endgame content. Grandfather everyone in now, then raise the cap to ~8 going forward.

[ShinoKami007]

On 03/04/2016 at 10:19 AM, KnotOfMetal said:

What if the first sortie of the day was scaled for and set to solo only as the prerequisite? Would that be effective to show the players can handle at least some of the difficulty on their own?  

Hmm, maybe a solo initial set of scaled quest missions to perm unlock all the sorties?

good idea

 

On 03/04/2016 at 10:20 AM, Educated_Beast said:

 

 

Like mastery tests...   Maybe 8 of them is the right number :)

 

 

like ...8 days ?

(... if you play 8x24h straight or farming draco i suppose ;) )

[magusat999]

MASTERY RANK...

Has nothing to do with Draco. Draco is just another point on the map. You can go to most Survival missions and level up just as fast as Draco - I do it all the time. in any case, Draco still doesn't have anything to do with Mastery Rank and the reason mastery Rank doesn't mean anything.

Mastery Rank is not automatic. The only way to advance is to take a test. You cannot advance in Mastery Rank by doing mission, not Draco, not any mission. You advance by taking a test - and if you want to say it means nothing, then you have to put the blame in the right place. Mastery Ranking means nothing because it is test based.

Mastery Rank also means nothing because it, in addition to mission xp, adds non-mission related xp to the mix - like leveling up mods. Leveling up a mod is not a measure of game (mission) skills, so that is another reason why MR means nothing. Leveling up a weapon, by extension (because it assumes you used it in a mission) also contribute to MR - but you can level up a weapon anywhere, so it is not a measure of skill (once again). Because there are ambient ways to attain Mastery Points, having nothing to do with mission performance or skill; THAT is the reason MR means nothing, has nothing to do with Draco. (People really need to stop witch hunting Draco, it cannot be the reason for EVERYTHING...)