Orokin Moon Puzzles - Unfun and Frustrating

[BlackCoMerc]

The puzzle for Cunning Drift is frustrating. You literally cant solve anything. Just stand there and get shot at. Moreover, the hit detection is way off. Half the laser beams fired by the glowing ball dont register when they do hit the columns. And I frequently die from the mini bombs regardless of whether they land anywhere near me. 

Another of the puzzles can ONLY be completed with 4 people. Or possibly two Loki. Cause he isnt powerful enough already, I guess. That's sort of frustrating; feels like a wasted mission, considering the loot tables for enemies here are all the same garbage stuff we get everywhere else.

Another "puzzle" simply has you tanking damage to a ridiculous degree. Nothing to solve; just stand there and get hit. 

And the last one simply involves draining your shields and opening a door. 

None of these hold a candle to the new Spy Vaults though. Warframe's movement simply is not tight or responsive enough for the new Spy Vault puzzles to even exist. They are tedious and frustrating and take far too long considering the garbage on the loot tables. Not that they would actually be FUN even without the overly polluted drop lists.

When will Warframe get back to focusing on fun? I guess that's the question I'm really asking here. Last year was the vaunted "Year of Quality" but all we received were forced Invulnerability Phases, wonky puzzles with unsatisfying solutions, outrageous bullet sponge enemies and pointless Sorties with enemies we cant so much fight as avoid.

When will the game return its focus to fast action and taking down enemies in exchange for satisfying loot, as opposed to endless frustration like these so called puzzle missions?

[magusat999]

On 4/4/2016 at 0:54 PM, BlackCoMerc said:

The puzzle for Cunning Drift is frustrating. You literally cant solve anything. Just stand there and get shot at. Moreover, the hit detection is way off. Half the laser beams fired by the glowing ball dont register when they do hit the columns. And I frequently die from the mini bombs regardless of whether they land anywhere near me. 

Another of the puzzles can ONLY be completed with 4 people. Or possibly two Loki. Cause he isnt powerful enough already, I guess. That's sort of frustrating; feels like a wasted mission, considering the loot tables for enemies here are all the same garbage stuff we get everywhere else.

Another "puzzle" simply has you tanking damage to a ridiculous degree. Nothing to solve; just stand there and get hit. 

And the last one simply involves draining your shields and opening a door. 

None of these hold a candle to the new Spy Vaults though. Warframe's movement simply is not tight or responsive enough for the new Spy Vault puzzles to even exist. They are tedious and frustrating and take far too long considering the garbage on the loot tables. Not that they would actually be FUN even without the overly polluted drop lists.

When will Warframe get back to focusing on fun? I guess that's the question I'm really asking here. Last year was the vaunted "Year of Quality" but all we received were forced Invulnerability Phases, wonky puzzles with unsatisfying solutions, outrageous bullet sponge enemies and pointless Sorties with enemies we cant so much fight as avoid.

When will the game return its focus to fast action and taking down enemies in exchange for satisfying loot, as opposed to endless frustration like these so called puzzle missions?

I cannot agree more. I had issues with the "Wall Latch" puzzle, where you bounce to one panel to another, shooting a ball as you go along. There are too many things that can happen when you try to wall latch, slide off, don't hit the button at the right time and sweep to the side. Get stuck in "bullet jump" animation so your wall latch command input is ignored... jump over the panel... I experienced every last error over and over again until I made a post about it, and then I still had problems getting through it (I still haven't been able to complete part 2). Don't even get me started on the goofy wall latch camera... I enjoy the CHALLENGE of the  Spy missions we had already - these moon spy missions are just a major pain, and as you inferred, the game's mechanics are not tight enough for such puzzles. I actually suspect these puzzles were made with console users in mind - this kind of action seems more tailored to a controller than a kb+mouse/ If it was Ratchet and Clank or God of War, I can imagine I'd have no problems - but this is ridiculous,

I don't think there was a consideration of the limitations of this game made before implementing the puzzles. You make a jumping puzzle - but the Warframe can jump 1 millimeter off and miss. You make a wall latch puzzle - but the Warframe doesn't have a guaranteed "stick to the wall" button (or mechanic). These puzzles should dump the twitch response mechanics part and stick to the cerebral (Isn't the action oriented Void puzzles enough to show people aren't that excited about them? All that fuss and risk for nothing special - USE TO offer rare items... but not anymore.). Its what makes the original puzzles special, they are a refreshing escape from the other game modes. These puzzles aren't fun - they just make people like me go to the trade channel... and maybe that's what they really are for?

[BlackCoMerc]

I think your last sentence raises a legit concern:Purposefully designing content that offers unique rewards - or possibly unique, anyway; wow those diluted loot tables - and then designing it so that only a select few people will ever want to play it. Which means the rest of us will need Plat, which we have to buy for cash.

I want to enjoy the Moon Base tile sets. I do. But between the damage sponge enemies, the RNG of trying to get a puzzle room, desperately hoping its not the tedious and annoying Agility Puzzle, hoping it IS the Endurance puzzle AND that it actually WORKS this time...its just become so tedious and draining. 

[Kai_Shiba]

There are some puzzles that can be done by yourself. But most need 3 other people to help you out in.

The one where you get hit in. The other players have to block the lasers hitting you with those barricades that pop up. The point of it is to protect the plate you're standing on from damage.

 

[magusat999]

On 4/5/2016 at 3:49 PM, KJRenz said:

There are some puzzles that can be done by yourself. But most need 3 other people to help you out in.

The one where you get hit in. The other players have to block the lasers hitting you with those barricades that pop up. The point of it is to protect the plate you're standing on from damage.

 

Yes - that's another thing. An RNG puzzle that requires other people (cannot be done solo). Rewards that are locked behind these ridiculous puzzles. So we have this, Raids, Sorties, and to some extent Archwing content that has rewards imprisoned behind which is the only reason people are suffering through them (most people, some people actually like it). Don't like where this is all going, not at all.

[BlackCoMerc]

8 hours ago, magusat999 said:

Yes - that's another thing. An RNG puzzle that requires other people (cannot be done solo). Rewards that are locked behind these ridiculous puzzles. So we have this, Raids, Sorties, and to some extent Archwing content that has rewards imprisoned behind which is the only reason people are suffering through them (most people, some people actually like it). Don't like where this is all going, not at all.

Exactly. Can we please simply get back to shoot enemies, get cool stuff? Stop forcing us to run specific missions over and over just to find a single reward. Even with the cool new maps, 50 missions in one place gets old. If I could get the reward elsewhere, I might keep playing. As it is, I am actively seeking a game for my girl and I to replace Warframe outright.

[(PSN)Cynicaid]

The wall latch vault was all it took for me to decide the Moon Spy missions aren't worth doing.

 

Wall latching is no where near consistent enough to make an entire puzzle based on it.

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Cynicaid said:

The wall latch vault was all it took for me to decide the Moon Spy missions aren't worth doing.

 

Wall latching is no where near consistent enough to make an entire puzzle based on it.

All 3 moon vaults in spy can be completed with absolutely zero platforming. No timing or memory games. Best done with wukong, but not limited to him.

Those are essentially proper solutions since they guarantee success. If you jumping on walls or bother with some timed crap - you simply don't know the proper, optimal solution yet.

Once you know the exact solution moon spy is done in 5 minutes, no risk, no reflexes or timing required whatsoever. It's a puzzle that has 1 good solution and 2-3 annoying ones. Don't bash until you actually solved the puzzle. A hint - you should never do the wall latch thing. It's another noob trap, of which this game has many.

But once you know the proper way it's all the more satisfying. 

[(PSN)Cynicaid]

9 hours ago, (PS4)Lord_Gremlin said:

All 3 moon vaults in spy can be completed with absolutely zero platforming. No timing or memory games. Best done with wukong, but not limited to him.

Those are essentially proper solutions since they guarantee success. If you jumping on walls or bother with some timed crap - you simply don't know the proper, optimal solution yet.

Once you know the exact solution moon spy is done in 5 minutes, no risk, no reflexes or timing required whatsoever. It's a puzzle that has 1 good solution and 2-3 annoying ones. Don't bash until you actually solved the puzzle. A hint - you should never do the wall latch thing. It's another noob trap, of which this game has many.

But once you know the proper way it's all the more satisfying. 

It says a lot about them when the only defense for them is someone saying that cheesing them is the "proper solution."

Edited April 8, 2016 by (PS4)Cynicaid

[Vitalis_Inamorta]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Cynicaid said:

It says a lot about them when the only defense for them is somone saying that cheesing them is the "proper solution."

Unless it's not actually cheesing.  Maybe the easier solution is intended, but just less obvious or better concealed?

[(PSN)Cynicaid]

4 minutes ago, Vitalis_Inamorta said:

Unless it's not actually cheesing.  Maybe the easier solution is intended, but just less obvious or better concealed?

A flying cloud monkey is pretty cheesy. Limbo being more so, though I don't blame anyone for it on spy missions. They're pretty dull after the first few completions.

 

They only positive thing I got out of the Moon Spy Vaults so far (other than liking the tilesets and concepts involved) is Crushing Ruin dropping for me after 800 odd hours of playtime. Tens of thousands of Seekers dead, and what I sought was on the Moon.

 

[CY13ERPUNK]

On 4/4/2016 at 11:54 AM, BlackCoMerc said:

The puzzle for Cunning Drift is frustrating. You literally cant solve anything. Just stand there and get shot at. Moreover, the hit detection is way off. Half the laser beams fired by the glowing ball dont register when they do hit the columns. And I frequently die from the mini bombs regardless of whether they land anywhere near me. 

Another of the puzzles can ONLY be completed with 4 people. Or possibly two Loki. Cause he isnt powerful enough already, I guess. That's sort of frustrating; feels like a wasted mission, considering the loot tables for enemies here are all the same garbage stuff we get everywhere else.

Another "puzzle" simply has you tanking damage to a ridiculous degree. Nothing to solve; just stand there and get hit. 

And the last one simply involves draining your shields and opening a door. 

None of these hold a candle to the new Spy Vaults though. Warframe's movement simply is not tight or responsive enough for the new Spy Vault puzzles to even exist. They are tedious and frustrating and take far too long considering the garbage on the loot tables. Not that they would actually be FUN even without the overly polluted drop lists.

When will Warframe get back to focusing on fun? I guess that's the question I'm really asking here. Last year was the vaunted "Year of Quality" but all we received were forced Invulnerability Phases, wonky puzzles with unsatisfying solutions, outrageous bullet sponge enemies and pointless Sorties with enemies we cant so much fight as avoid.

When will the game return its focus to fast action and taking down enemies in exchange for satisfying loot, as opposed to endless frustration like these so called puzzle missions?

sry i just cannot agree with most of this...

the cunning drift challenge is not difficult at all, i think its the one i have the most of actually [mostly becuz i just find that tile more tho], the eye will try to lead its shots, that might be why u get get when u think u are dodging, also standing on the ledge helps to insure that the shots will sever the roots

the co-action challenge is just that, 'co-operative', so it was never intended to be able to be solo'd, FWIW however i do think that you should at least be able to START it solo, by using a specter or decoy or ally of some kind [like u said tho 2 loki's can completely solve it, however if u played loki more often u might realize hes not as OP as u think, especially vs parasite eximi and massive aoe enemy dmg]

the endurance challenge can be solo'd, there are many different ways to achieve that as well, from barrier/grace/aegis arcanes to super high shlds/health/armor as well as shooting out the lasers during to slow the dmg being recieved [obviously easier with more ppl to help tho]

the power challenge is fairly 'meh', the premise is/was a 'simple' puzzle in that many ppl would not notice it at first, but after the solution was found its not very difficult to complete, FWIW its the 'easy' one, vs the other more complex challenges

aside from some of the new moon spy vaults being difficult for melee only, IMHO they were fairly well designed, yes the wall-latch camera is garbage, and yes there are still a few bugs in them, but they are all reliably solvable on a consistent basis, so i disagree that they are bad just becuz u dont like the loot... =/

honestly if u dislike these missions so much, why do u play them? it sounds like u would be much happier just avoiding this chunk of content and doing whatever else that you claim to enjoy... =/

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Cynicaid said:

It says a lot about them when the only defense for them is someone saying that cheesing them is the "proper solution."

It's not cheesing. It can be done by almost all warframes. Wukong is merely faster, but overall route is the same. As I said, proper intended route has no wall latching, timing or memory games. Those are basically noob traps.

And yes, it's definitely not cheesing - it's the intended route. It's very clear, there are visual hints and unique puzzle pieces such as explosive crate teleport in 3Rd vault. The only actual obstacle in moon vaults are Orokin spectators all over all optimal routes. But you can kill them or turn invisible. 

[KnaveOfSwords]

14 hours ago, (PS4)Lord_Gremlin said:

All 3 moon vaults in spy can be completed with absolutely zero platforming. No timing or memory games. Best done with wukong, but not limited to him.

Those are essentially proper solutions since they guarantee success. If you jumping on walls or bother with some timed crap - you simply don't know the proper, optimal solution yet.

Once you know the exact solution moon spy is done in 5 minutes, no risk, no reflexes or timing required whatsoever. It's a puzzle that has 1 good solution and 2-3 annoying ones. Don't bash until you actually solved the puzzle. A hint - you should never do the wall latch thing. It's another noob trap, of which this game has many.

But once you know the proper way it's all the more satisfying. 

Haven't tried Wukong yet, but Limbo makes 2 of them absolutely trivial, and Zephyr's aerial acrobatics lets her breeze past the one with the spectators and makes the lasers in the other two easier to avoid as well.  Beyond those two, Ivara and Loki (and I guess Ash, but I haven't done much with him either) can turn invisible to hide from spectators, and used in the right places/times, Ivaras dashline, Valkyr's ripline, and Loki's switch teleport can all be used to bypass some of the obstacles along the way.  They can, of course, be done with any frame, but those tend to make it far easier.

 

And what wall-latch camera thing?

[BlackCoMerc]

On 4/8/2016 at 8:01 AM, CY13ERPUNK said:

sry i just cannot agree with most of this...

the cunning drift challenge is not difficult at all, i think its the one i have the most of actually [mostly becuz i just find that tile more tho], the eye will try to lead its shots, that might be why u get get when u think u are dodging, also standing on the ledge helps to insure that the shots will sever the roots

the co-action challenge is just that, 'co-operative', so it was never intended to be able to be solo'd, FWIW however i do think that you should at least be able to START it solo, by using a specter or decoy or ally of some kind [like u said tho 2 loki's can completely solve it, however if u played loki more often u might realize hes not as OP as u think, especially vs parasite eximi and massive aoe enemy dmg]

the endurance challenge can be solo'd, there are many different ways to achieve that as well, from barrier/grace/aegis arcanes to super high shlds/health/armor as well as shooting out the lasers during to slow the dmg being recieved [obviously easier with more ppl to help tho]

the power challenge is fairly 'meh', the premise is/was a 'simple' puzzle in that many ppl would not notice it at first, but after the solution was found its not very difficult to complete, FWIW its the 'easy' one, vs the other more complex challenges

aside from some of the new moon spy vaults being difficult for melee only, IMHO they were fairly well designed, yes the wall-latch camera is garbage, and yes there are still a few bugs in them, but they are all reliably solvable on a consistent basis, so i disagree that they are bad just becuz u dont like the loot... =/

honestly if u dislike these missions so much, why do u play them? it sounds like u would be much happier just avoiding this chunk of content and doing whatever else that you claim to enjoy... =/

Why do I not just avoid them? Because someone thought it would be a great idea to force me to do these puzzles in order to get new mods.

Which, as it turns out, is a great way to garner NEGATIVE reviews of your content: make everyone who wants to play tour action game, solve tedious and sometimes outright broken puzzles (Endurance) regardless of whether they line this sort of thing.

Just...put stuff on drop lists. A reasonable number of them. Then let us play the game.

[CY13ERPUNK]

16 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Why do I not just avoid them? Because someone thought it would be a great idea to force me to do these puzzles in order to get new mods.

Which, as it turns out, is a great way to garner NEGATIVE reviews of your content: make everyone who wants to play tour action game, solve tedious and sometimes outright broken puzzles (Endurance) regardless of whether they line this sort of thing.

Just...put stuff on drop lists. A reasonable number of them. Then let us play the game.

no one 'forced' you to do anything, you are just playing yourself as a victim =/ 

almost every mission ingame has some form of exclusive reward pertaining its own unique reward table... 

the endurance challenge is not broken, or if it is, i dont understand how [ie i have no idea how it was designed to be, but it seems to be fine to me] 

if your argument is that you should be able to get the rewards for the orokin moon challenges without doing the challenges or get the spy rewards without doing the spy missions, then basically your argument is kinda moot =/ 

ie the dual stat toxin mods only drop from vor in the t4 void, so if someone wants them, that's where they have to go, that's just how the game works 

'yes i want to play the game, but i only want it to do everything that i want and give me everything i want exactly how i want and nothing else, anything else is the developers forcing me to play their game in a way that i dont enjoy' - this is what i am hearing, is that correct? 

its a f2p game, it is a game... games have rules/parameters... bishops in chess can only move diagonally, knights can only L, these are the rules, if someone gave chess a negative review because they were forced to move their pawns just to get their rooks into play, or some other nonsense, it would be just that, nonsense 

Edited April 10, 2016 by CY13ERPUNK

[BlackCoMerc]

7 hours ago, CY13ERPUNK said:

no one 'forced' you to do anything, you are just playing yourself as a victim =/ 

almost every mission ingame has some form of exclusive reward pertaining its own unique reward table... 

the endurance challenge is not broken, or if it is, i dont understand how [ie i have no idea how it was designed to be, but it seems to be fine to me] 

if your argument is that you should be able to get the rewards for the orokin moon challenges without doing the challenges or get the spy rewards without doing the spy missions, then basically your argument is kinda moot =/ 

ie the dual stat toxin mods only drop from vor in the t4 void, so if someone wants them, that's where they have to go, that's just how the game works 

'yes i want to play the game, but i only want it to do everything that i want and give me everything i want exactly how i want and nothing else, anything else is the developers forcing me to play their game in a way that i dont enjoy' - this is what i am hearing, is that correct? 

its a f2p game, it is a game... games have rules/parameters... bishops in chess can only move diagonally, knights can only L, these are the rules, if someone gave chess a negative review because they were forced to move their pawns just to get their rooks into play, or some other nonsense, it would be just that, nonsense 

So the devs introduce very useful rewards and make them available in only ONE way? Mind you these are rewards that are very useful to a wide variety of frames, in a wide variety of situations.

Yet no one is forcing me to run these missions.

Of course they arent. So long as I am willing to forgo these very useful rewards, I dont have to run these missions.

Just like I dont have to run the irritating Uranus Sharkwing missions either. So long as I am willing to forgo a chance at ALL of the useful Parkour Exilus mods.

But that's okay. Keep defending these poor design decisions that drive players away from a game that depends on a large community in order to exist. 

[CY13ERPUNK]

18 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

So the devs introduce very useful rewards and make them available in only ONE way? Mind you these are rewards that are very useful to a wide variety of frames, in a wide variety of situations.

Yet no one is forcing me to run these missions.

Of course they arent. So long as I am willing to forgo these very useful rewards, I dont have to run these missions.

Just like I dont have to run the irritating Uranus Sharkwing missions either. So long as I am willing to forgo a chance at ALL of the useful Parkour Exilus mods.

But that's okay. Keep defending these poor design decisions that drive players away from a game that depends on a large community in order to exist. 

here's the problem, you say one thing, but maybe you 'mean' another thing...

if your argument is that rewards should NOT be specific to a certain enemy or mission, but instead you would rather have a huge table of something like .01% for ANY of the hundreds of possible mods, then that is what you should say ; ie you can run any mission and/or kill any enemy and have the same chance for any/all mods/rewards of any kind, they'd all just be in one huge table

and that is a debateable argument, whether rewards should be specific to certain enemies or missions or whether they should be generalized across the board, personally i think there is room in a game as large as WF has gotten to have a little of both, one of my favorite games of all time: City of Heroes, actually achieved quite the sweet spot IMHO, but of course that's a huge tangent

but see, you're not saying that, you keep saying that you are being 'forced', cue the 'youkeepusingthatwordbutidontthinkuknowwhatitmeans.jpg'

also it is not fundamental to the game's success they DE makes every possible reward as easy to get as it seems that you would like, quite the opposite in fact ; while certainly a level of 'unfair' difficulty can be off-putting to many ppl, it is far worse to be too-easy, too-easy is the death of a videogame like WF, which is based now largely around its growing atmosphere

in the beginning it sounded like you just had complaints/criticism about the specifics of the moon tileset challenges and spy, and while certainly your subjective experience is your own, i disagree that those missions/challenges are 'unfair' ; if your argument is then that it is 'unfun' that you cannot get the same rewards that you want from doing a different mission then fundamentally that is a different argument ; but again you didnt frame it as such

bottom line, you were not and are not being 'forced' to do anything, but i think im done here, feel free to continue to play the victim and blame DE for your perceived misfortunes, even though they certainly seem mis-guided IMHO

[BlackCoMerc]

So by your logic, its perfectly ok to turn players off from a game by only allowing them to get rewards via doing ONE thing over and over again, endlessly, and hoping for a shot at the reward they want. No matter how bored they get; no matter that they get so bored they begin to actively seek alternatives to playing your game.

Tell me, how long do you think a game can go down this path before it turns a sufficient number of people away from playing that it begins to hurt in the wallet?

[(XBOX)Deflinek]

On ‎4‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 11:34 AM, BlackCoMerc said:

Of course they arent. So long as I am willing to forgo these very useful rewards, I dont have to run these missions.

Just like I dont have to run the irritating Uranus Sharkwing missions either. So long as I am willing to forgo a chance at ALL of the useful Parkour Exilus mods.

I'm not sure why do you feel that way? Why you have to forgo anything? The main difference between Warframe and many other games is that most important stuff is tradable. So if you don't enjoy moon spy go farm Orokin Void. Sell what you find and BUY yourself those mods! Simple as that.

[BlackCoMerc]

4 hours ago, (XB1)Deflinek said:

I'm not sure why do you feel that way? Why you have to forgo anything? The main difference between Warframe and many other games is that most important stuff is tradable. So if you don't enjoy moon spy go farm Orokin Void. Sell what you find and BUY yourself those mods! Simple as that.

So we are back to this again.

Simply put, I much prefer to play the game as opposed to sitting in trade chat. The more time I need to dedicate to things like crafting, recipes and trade chat, the more I simply look for other games to play.

I like Warframe, when it turns me loose and gives me a suite if powers with which to solve problems. It's fun and empowering.

More and more, though, the devs seem to want us to play THEIR way and not ours: Nerf teleport in Spy missions. Can't jump correctly from tripwires, always flying off at some random angle, can't use Stealth opowers on Capture targets or frame powers to overcome puzzles because if the aforementioned gimps.

It's Draining the fun from Warframe. Put the rewards in various places throughout the game and turn us loose to get them in the way we prefer.

[GrimAtrament]

i found them extremely fun but apparently lots people seem to hate challenges in video games these day and want everything hadded to them on a sliver plate.

also yes this game has a puzzle that requires teamwork know that else requires button standing and team works the Raids.

the cunning drift ones hard but not impossible. but thats the point of a puzzle they make things frustrating. also i would us a frame like valkyr chroma or use wukong with his cloud walker and time the skill to us it just when the eye starts firing and the laser will pass right through you with out damaging you can do this with lokis switch ands decoy as well

 

ths spy mission was the easiest one for me. then again not everyone plays metal gear just avoid the blue lasers with the parkor system and you should be fine  

[Rounpositron]

You don't have to do the wall latch vault by wall latching. I know alternate paths to all of the vaults!                  : Y

Edited April 19, 2016 by Rounpositron

[TheJagji]

I like how people are complain about things that are in other MMO's and are taken for granted, yet they are complained about constantly on here.

I think this is, in part, to people forgetting that Warframe IS part MMO. This is understandable though, as its not a normal MMO. Its more like how Diablo 3 is an MMO. It uses MMO mechanics, and has MMO like server systems for cheating, trading and so on But due to the game play is that of a 3rd person shooter with match making, people just forget that its part MMO.

[magusat999]

I took some time to learn some of these mysterious "other ways" to solve each puzzle because I find the parkour way to be too iffy and downright unpredictable at times. I pretty much have a "safe" way to complete 2 of them. The third is the one with the lasers and dropping doors. if I can find a way to NOT have to run through that course... Anyway, after putting time into at least being able to get through it - the kick in the "gahones"  that might seriously end my interest in Spy missions was the ridiculously pathetic rewards. Unlike the random Moon puzzles, which give you a guaranteed drop, DE decided to torture us with these irritating puzzles, and to add misery to insult, put RNG rewards on them on completion - and I mean really unsatisfying rewards. Sure, there are exclusive mods you MIGHT get - but what is the chance??? How many sessions does one have to suffer through? Why are the rewards as bad as this - even if you don't get one of the rare mods - how unsatisfying is it to get something you can get (and better) in the first missions of the game? Why doesn't it reflect the level and difficulty? At least drop "Hell's Chamber" level mods - or all rare mads... but this? Come on - really not worth the effort...

This totally stopped me from playing Moon Spy missions... guess it's back to the trade channel if I want those mods.