[Warframe concept] Valkyr berserker rework

[Tythbalt]

Now, I know what you might be thinking; "wtf? valkyr rework? she is really good, why would you rework something that alredy works?" however hear me out on this! Valkyr is very powerful and currently fun to play (she is my 3rd favorite frame after oberon and inaros afterall) however there is one big issue her kit really struggles with. Complexity. Valkyr is possibly one of the most baseline simple frames out there, just press 4 and softly stroke your E key as you crit everything for upwards of 10k, and altho it is certainly super fun to rampage around playing as her, in reality you are just playing melee with a reddish screen and immunity. with that said, my goals with this rework will be as follows.

Goals with this rework

#1 To add complexity to Valkyr's kit to engage the player more.

#2 Update some of her slightly outdated abilities.

#3 bring a breath of fresh air by reinventing an alredy great design into something newer while keeping the same "feel".

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Base stats

100 Health (300 max)

50 Shields (150 max)

600 Armor

100 power (150 max)

Sprint speed 1.1

(thease stats are identical to live as they really are what makes her kit work)

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Abilities

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Passives

Hyper

The heat of battle fuels Valkyr's rage allowing her to ignore a portion of the damage she takes (up to 25% damage reduction at maximum rage) and giving additional benefits to her abilities

Hyper works on a system simmilar to syndicate effects as it will charge up depending on the affinity she earns and will alter her abilities based on how much "rage" she has. Additionally, damage to health is converted into rage on a 2 health to 1 rage ratio.
Max rage of 1000

All hyper ability interactions will be mentioned with their respective abilities.

Second Wind
If Valkyr is downed, she enters a state of desperate rage and compleatly drops all weapons and sanity (she cannot use abilities or weapons in this state). Using her energy claws she can attack enemies to attempt to recover, if she manages to kill enough targets.
she will end her second wind state and recover 25% of her health and shields. This effect can only happen once every 3 mins.

-

First

 Mutilate (50 energy)

Valkyr targets a distant enemy and lunges towards them violently attacking them with her energy claws and gaining a boost in strength.

This ability deals finisher damage equal to Valkyr's melee finishers with her hysteria claws. therefore, this abilities damage scales with melee mods and power strength.

15% of the damage dealt is given back to Valkyr as health.

This is how it would look like (watch from 0:32 to 0:40) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_IwwJaRzSg

*Hyper bonus*

If Valkyr is at or above 50% hyper, this ability will also knockdown any enemies around valkyr when she finishes her assault dealing 25% of the damage to them as well.

-

Second

War cry (75 energy) (This ability is magnificent as is, no core changes for this one. )

Valkyr lets out a rallying cry that bolsters her allies melee speed while slowing down nearby enemies.

*Hyper bonus*

 If Valkyr is at or above 50% hyper, War cry will now give Valkyr a slowing aura instead of only slowing enemies in the initial cast.

-

Third

Hostage of war (75 energy)

Valkyr hurls forth a hook to a targetted enemy. This enemy is then dragged towards Valkyr and subdued (if the enemy is infront of Valkyr, no hook is thrown and she just forcefully grabs it hostage). Valkyr then uses the enemy as a shield and gains the following bonuses.

All frontal attacks will be redirected to the held enemy. Also, the hostage loses 4% of its maximum health every second while held by Valkyr (unaffected by mods).

Note: The ability has no duration, but ends once the held enemy dies. Also, Valkyr cannot use her primary while holding a hostage, but is able to use her secondary and melee weapon (think of when you carry a datamass)

while holding a hostage #3 turns into rampage

Rampage (10 energy) (this ability changes functionality when tapped or pressed down)

Tap #3

While holding a hostage Valkyr will use its body as a weapon, violently swinging its body to strike other enemies. Thease attacks deal damage equal to Valkyr's energy claws + a bonus of 25% the hostages max health (Scales with melee mods and pwr str) (Think of atlas landslide).

Press and hold #3

While holding a hostage Valkyr can fling the hostage towards other enemies dealing damage based on its maximum health to all other enemies it collides with while also ragdolling them.    (You want to throw the hostage as it is about to die to get the most out of this ability) (The damage type is Impact)

*Hyper bonus*

While at or above 50% hyper, rampage swings let out a preassure wave with every swing which slightly staggers enemies and opens them up to finishers (think of current paralysis for Valkyr without the shield cut and damage)

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Fourth

Hysteria  (25 energy and 2.5 energy to maintain)

Valkyr is overcome with rage unleashing her energy claws and becoming immune to all status effects, CC and even death, however she will still take damage which will only fuel her fury further.

Hysteria is simmilar to how it is live and uses all the same stats, however with a few changes. Namely, Valkyr is not damage immune anymore, instead she will take damage and any damage she takes after she reaches 0 health will increase the maintain cost on hysteria by 3% for every 1% of over damage she takes. (Example: Valkyr has 1000 maximum health, but she drops below 0 and takes 100 damage before she can heal herself, this will increase her hysteria maintain cost by 30%.)

Overdamage mechanic

While in hysteria, Valkyr can still be damaged, however she cannot be killed and her health will not drop below 0 however, any damage she takes which surpasses her current health will be stored as overdamage which will increase the maintain cost for hysteria. (Example, you have 500 health and a bombard shoots you for 600. Valkyr will drop to 0 and not die, but now you will have 100 overdamage.) (Overdamage stacks will only be cleared after you spend 10 seconds outside of hysteria, or reach Hyper hysteria.)

Note: Any damage Valkyr is taking while in hysteria will be added to her Hyper bar regardless of if this damage is overdamage.

*Hyper bonus*

If Valkyr Activates hysteria with a full hyper bar (100% rage) or reaches 100% rage while alredy in hysteria, she will bellow a fury filled shout which will deal 1200 blast damage to all enemies within 25m with a 100% status chance. Additionally Valkyr will enter Hyper Hysteria.

Hyper Hysteria

Valkyr overflows with rage becoming compleatly immune to all damage and making all her abilities free (Including hysteria) for 10 seconds (flat, does not increase with duration). During this time all her abilities gain their hyper bonus, however she cannot gain any rage for the next 30 seconds after Hyper Hysteria ends.

Notes: Simmilarly to syndicate procs, after activating this effect, Valkyr goes back to 0 rage. Also, Hyper hysteria has a cooldown of 1 min.

Hyper Hysteria would be visibly different to regular Hysteria, as Valkyr is overflowing with energy her claws grow more menacing and she manifests energy which resembles her Gersemi skin (if using the Gersemi skin she would instead have visible energy pouring out of her)

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Playstyle

Very simmilar to how she is now, you would rampage across the battelfield, however now you would have to manage your healthbar by using your #1, Blocking, grabbing key targets as hostages with your #3 and lifestealing with Hysteria. The tools for sucess are given to you, now you just need to use them properly and to their maximum potential.

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With this we end. Thank you so much for reading through this, I know Valkyr reworks have always been very controversial (she was a very difficult frame to balance in the past) but I just felt like I HAD to do this for her. Thanks again, please do leave any feedback or opinions in the comments (even if you dont like it please do tell me why!).

Edited April 10, 2016 by Tythbalt
Clarity

[Megakruemel]

I had the idea of that rage bar once.

EDIT: I did, however, suggest it would increase damage resistance and be used up by hysteria so you would have to balance the hysteria usage a bit.

Edited April 9, 2016 by Megakruemel

[Tythbalt]

1 minute ago, Megakruemel said:

I had the idea of that rage bar once.

Would have loved to read about it tbh, it took my way too long to actually flesh mine out.

[Megakruemel]

Just now, Tythbalt said:

Would have loved to read about it tbh, it took my way too long to actually flesh mine out.

Mine was not fully fleshed out, too. I wanted to further go into that idea but i did not.

Anyway: here ya go

 

[Tythbalt]

8 minutes ago, Megakruemel said:

Mine was not fully fleshed out, too. I wanted to further go into that idea but i did not.

Anyway: here ya go

 

I find it funny how in that post you mentioned playing valkyr without hysteria, because while making this rework i did just that. I ran a ton of T4 void on valkyr without using hysteria while going full melee and trying to survive the best I could just so I could test her durability and how much I would need to compensate in the rework for having no immunity. It was not easy, however with enough blocking/dodging and proper lifestrike usage it was doable, hence why i removed her immunity in this rework.

[AethonWalker]

I like it. It gives a more defined berserker theme rather than invincible cat goddess theme. After Hyper Hysteria, I understand that her rage is reset, but does it turn off Hyper Hysteria, bump her down to normal Hysteria, or just keep it going? Also, how would Rage (the mod) work with Hysteria? As much as I like the mod, keeping it on would be a bit much until really late in an endless mission, but it'd be neat if instead of disabling Rage Hysteria would just tone it down to maybe 10% conversion or something.

[Tythbalt]

1 minute ago, AethonWalker said:

I understand that her rage is reset, but does it turn off Hyper Hysteria, bump her down to normal Hysteria, or just keep it going?

After the 10 seconds are over you go back to regular Hysteria.

3 minutes ago, AethonWalker said:

Also, how would Rage (the mod) work with Hysteria? As much as I like the mod, keeping it on would be a bit much until really late in an endless mission, but it'd be neat if instead of disabling Rage Hysteria would just tone it down to maybe 10% conversion or something.

It works normally, any damage she takes while in Hysteria would be converted to energy, however Rage (the mod) would not benefit from damage valkyr takes after she goes below 0 health, meaning as long as you manage your healthbar properly youl be fine, screw up and take too much over damage and you will pay for it.

[AethonWalker]

Just now, Tythbalt said:

After the 10 seconds are over you go back to regular Hysteria.

Cool, I approve there.

Just now, Tythbalt said:

It works normally, any damage she takes while in Hysteria would be converted to energy, however Rage (the mod) would not benefit from damage valkyr takes after she goes below 0 health, meaning as long as you manage your healthbar properly you'll be fine, screw up and take too much over damage and you will pay for it.

I can't believe I didn't think of that. Yeah, that sure would work.

[Tythbalt]

Just now, AethonWalker said:

Cool, I approve there.

I can't believe I didn't think of that. Yeah, that sure would work.

The entire theme of the concept plays on just that, managing your healthbar. Yes you are an unstoppable berserker that rampages around, however if you take way too much damage you will start to slow down. (I was careful however as way back hysteria was known for being very underpowered because of how valkyr was designed so i did give her a sort of "last minute bail" in the Second wind passive)

[TrickshotMcGee]

I'm really not trying to be mean or talk down. It's meant to be constructive, though it'll feel kind of rude. I apologize in advance for that. 

#1 sounds alright. An insta-kill sound a bit on the OP side of things, but with a 50 energy cost, it's not exactly spammable. 

#2 is just fine. Warcry is a great ability. Always felt it should offer an constant slow bonus, anyways.

Gonna be honest, #3 sounds awesome, but really powerful. Using a meat shield is good fun and I'm fine with that part. Great concept. It's "rampage" that creates an issue for me. Could you just throw any hostage? Throwing a single Bombard could 1-shot most other mobs, so that's really strong. Smacking people with it could also be really powerful with melee damage+mods+25% of its health while also releasing "pressure waves" that are also heavily damaging. It's an ability that could possibly outshine Hysteria for power, or be used while in Hysteria for utterly ridiculous extra damage. It's cool, but scary with the ability to insta-gib entire mobs for the low cost of 10 energy. 

#4 the "over-damage" is really just meh, IMO. With enemies that can 1-shot you, they'd drain your energy instantly and kill you immediately, making it useless in the first place. I'm not at all against her dying while in Hysteria. I think she should take damage and eventually die, but I don't like the energy drain increase as a consequence. She could kill all the enemies around her and still die anyways because she still had 1% over-damage. 

[Tythbalt]

1st off before I address your points, i want to make it very clear, you are not being mean as i am compleatly open to extreamly harsh criticism as it can only really make the concept improve if brought with enough justification (which you did). On to the points you made.

42 minutes ago, TrickshotMcGee said:

It's "rampage" that creates an issue for me. Could you just throw any hostage? Throwing a single Bombard could 1-shot most other mobs, so that's really strong.

I agree, it is extreamly strong, however not nearly as devastating as you might think. a ragdolled enemy does not really have that big a hitbox to begin with and on top of that unless you are fighting infested, enemies dont clump up close enough for you to take out an entire team with just a single bombard. another VERY important thing to note, i say % of max health but this is only used as base damage for the ability, it would still suffer reductions from armor and be affected by damage types (something I should have listed in the original post so thanks for pointing this out.)

 

42 minutes ago, TrickshotMcGee said:

Smacking people with it could also be really powerful with melee damage+mods+25% of its health while also releasing "pressure waves" that are also heavily damaging.

The preassure waves deal no damage, they are ment to imitate the CC portion of what paralysis does in the current game. (the hyper bonus for rampage was really just to keep some part of the original #3 in the ability. Notice how both ripline (when you pull a hostage) and paralysis (Hyper bonus on rampage) are still silently implemented into this ability? it was so the reworked valkyr kept some concepts of the original as I do still love current valkyr)

 

42 minutes ago, TrickshotMcGee said:

It's cool, but scary with the ability to insta-gib entire mobs for the low cost of 10 energy. 

Then again, we have exalted blade and stealth damage multipliers in the game which suffer from the same sin. I agree its a bit ridiculous, however its not like it does not exist alredy in the game. Also note its not really 10 energy, its 75 energy + 10 per swing.

42 minutes ago, TrickshotMcGee said:

With enemies that can 1-shot you, they'd drain your energy instantly and kill you immediately

This was actually one of my initial concerns with allowing hysteria to take damage, so much so in order test how durable Valkyr could be I ran T4 missions in full melee without hysteria (including a 40 min t4 survivial with 1 buddy of mine) The results were quite enlightening. I had no issues staying alive untill around lvl 100 hit at which point if i dropped my block button at the wrong moment i was downed, This however is what i was looking for. I was looking for how much was the limit and how could you surpass that limit of being able to mitigate damage. Essentially a skilled player who is using their block button and properly taking tanky hostages will have no issues keeping their hysteria up, on the flipside someone who currently just likes the brainless invincibility E spam valkyr will not have a good time with this rework. Not to mention I did add some "safety nets" to this valkyr for that exact same reason.

 

42 minutes ago, TrickshotMcGee said:

but I don't like the energy drain increase as a consequence. She could kill all the enemies around her and still die anyways because she still had 1% over-damage.

This is actually my mistake as i did not properly explain what i ment by overdamage. Overdamage is not negative health, it is simply damage she takes that passes over 0 health. For example: you have 300 health, and the most annoying bombard comes and shoots you for 350 while your hysteria is up, your health essentially stops going down once you reach 1 health, however you have taken damage which exceeds your healthbar so now you have 50 overdamage. It would keep stacking up if you kept taking damage, however your health would essentially never really go below 0 (as by game code that would actually kill you).

 

Massive thanks for the feedback, ill make sure to clear thease things up eventually in the actual thread. sorry i took so long to respond but i took time to clear up everything you mentioned.

Edited April 10, 2016 by Tythbalt

[TrickshotMcGee]

4 minutes ago, Tythbalt said:

VERY important thing to note, i say % of max health but this is only used as base damage for the ability, it would still suffer reductions from armor and be affected by damage types

Alright. I thought you meant it takes their health value directly out of the enemy's health pool. Seems a lot less OP now. 

5 minutes ago, Tythbalt said:

The preassure waves deal no damage

Ok, cool. Misunderstanding on my part. Glad to see the CC isn't absent. I really love her Paralysis ability for that reason.

6 minutes ago, Tythbalt said:

Then again, we have exalted blade and stealth damage multipliers in the game which suffer from the same sin. I agree its a bit ridiculous, however its not like it does not exist alredy in the game.

To be fair, I think Exalted Blade needs to be changed big time. Stealth kills are iffy for me, but they aren't as bad as some other things. 

7 minutes ago, Tythbalt said:

It would keep stacking up if you kept taking damage, however your health would essentially never really go below 0

Oh, so you wouldn't die in Hysteria, but it would become impossible to maintain it if you kept taking damage without healing up some. And reaching "Hyper Hysteria" is a temporary buff to increase survivability. 

 

It actually sounds a LOT better now that it's a bit clearer. Glad you took your time reading my response and giving some context. I'd be behind this change if it went live. 

[-BM-Mitz]

OK, I'll sum up the mechanics and playstyle cause that's important:

Anger management by releasing the steam with her abilities. Powers gain buffs while rage is up enough, Hysteria loses invulnerability and gains some mechanics.

Overall I like the idea and it seems interesting but I don't think I like the hostage power (also am a fan of ripline to some extend). I'd also want to see more synergy with her powers. Like Warcry doing more if activated during hysteria or something.

[Tythbalt]

2 minutes ago, Major_Phantom said:

OK, I'll sum up the mechanics and playstyle cause that's important:

Anger management by releasing the steam with her abilities. Powers gain buffs while rage is up enough, Hysteria loses invulnerability and gains some mechanics.

Overall I like the idea and it seems interesting but I don't think I like the hostage power (also am a fan of ripline to some extend). I'd also want to see more synergy with her powers. Like Warcry doing more if activated during hysteria or something.

Intresting you mention warcry during hysteria. Originally in the very early stages of this concept, the "Hyper" bonuses were actually bonuses when using abilities in hysteria, however i felt that gave hysteria too much importance so i moved those out and spread them over her entire kit.

Also please do tell why you dont like Hostage of War specifically as i am intrested to hear your reasoning.

[-BM-Mitz]

1 hour ago, Tythbalt said:

Intresting you mention warcry during hysteria. Originally in the very early stages of this concept, the "Hyper" bonuses were actually bonuses when using abilities in hysteria, however i felt that gave hysteria too much importance so i moved those out and spread them over her entire kit.

Also please do tell why you dont like Hostage of War specifically as i am intrested to hear your reasoning.

The idea of holding a enemy and using him to hit people like a shield bash doesn't sound to me like something that'll look good in game. Animation and all.

Plus it's weird how a berserk bloodthirsty maniac would have a power that takes thought and tactical decision by using a enemy as a shield. Somehow doesn't fit the RAGE vibe I'm getting from the rest of the kit.

[Tythbalt]

5 hours ago, Major_Phantom said:

The idea of holding a enemy and using him to hit people like a shield bash doesn't sound to me like something that'll look good in game. Animation and all.

Animations can always be worked out, im sure if it was to be implemented DE could think of someway of making it look cool (as they do with pretty much everything)

5 hours ago, Major_Phantom said:

Plus it's weird how a berserk bloodthirsty maniac would have a power that takes thought and tactical decision by using a enemy as a shield. Somehow doesn't fit the RAGE vibe I'm getting from the rest of the kit

hmm.. The way i pictured the ability was more like Valkyr uses her excessive berserker strength to literally rip an enemy off its feet and smash them savagely against others. In my head it looks like something a giant would do, dont you think? (this is more or less what i pictured Valkyr doing to enemies https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dCsDA2fMYM )

 

[Tythbalt]

15 hours ago, TrickshotMcGee said:

Alright. I thought you meant it takes their health value directly out of the enemy's health pool. Seems a lot less OP now. 

Ok, cool. Misunderstanding on my part. Glad to see the CC isn't absent. I really love her Paralysis ability for that reason.

To be fair, I think Exalted Blade needs to be changed big time. Stealth kills are iffy for me, but they aren't as bad as some other things. 

Oh, so you wouldn't die in Hysteria, but it would become impossible to maintain it if you kept taking damage without healing up some. And reaching "Hyper Hysteria" is a temporary buff to increase survivability. 

 

It actually sounds a LOT better now that it's a bit clearer. Glad you took your time reading my response and giving some context. I'd be behind this change if it went live. 

Clarity has been added to the original thread explaining mechanics in more detail.

Thanks a ton for your feedback, please stick around!