Zephyr tweaks/rework

[GrimAtrament]

zephyr is not at all a bad frame but some of her abilities could use some adjustments with the new Parkor system

1. Tailwind as it is right now bullet jump kinda makes it redundant. so to make it better i though making it a channeled skill with the ability to control the direction you move using something similar to flight controls. with w being down s being up a and d being pich yaw and roll so you can fly through the air rather than move forward in one direction. Having this ability only activate while airborne or just controlled by the crosshairs 

2. Dive bomb its fine as it is but maybe better damage scaling have it's damage scale more based on  velocity towards the ground the higher up the bigger the damage and aoe. whell coliding with the ground it bounces you back up half the distance you hit the ground at

3.Turbulence again this skill is fine as it is i really cant thing of anything to change on it except possibly pressing 3 again while its one creates an air explosion pushing enemies away from you.

4. Tornado i always found the lake of synergy this skill has the rest of zephyrs kit kinda strange. one way i though of fixing this is that if zephyr is using tailwind  and hits one of the tornados it boosts you upwards  and increases your speed in the air.  using dive bomb on  a tornado causes it to explode outwards dealing damage to enemies near it any enemies trapped in the vortex get doubled the damage. also the  bullets you shoot and enemies shoot into the tornado increase its over all  damage per second.  and when donated by dive bomb it deals the total damage it has been doing to enemies trapped inside the tornado to everything near it. any enemy killed in the tornado gets ripped apart if there pieces hit another enemy it deals impact damage to them. also rather than having 4 large tornados why not have 1 very big one or like how hydroids 1 works allow you to select the spot the tornados spawn rather than it being random  so you can cast it multiple times (up to 4 times or 8 if you have the augment) 

Edited April 13, 2016 by hazerddex

[GrimAtrament]

Woops >_<

Edited April 13, 2016 by hazerddex

[ClinkzEastwood]

She's not a bad frame, it's just that 3 out of her 4 skills are utterly useless.

Edited April 12, 2016 by ClinkzEastwood

[(XBOX)CitrusTheNile]

9 hours ago, ClinkzEastwood said:

She's not a bad frame, it's just that 3 out of her 4 skills are utterly useless.

Considering her dive bomb can suck enemies into her and knock them down for melee finishers with the right augment, she isn't as bad as many people claim considering she is good for defending points (Def, MD, Inter) and has good mobility and survivability. Plus she is a ton of fun to play compared to other frames. 

Edited April 12, 2016 by (XB1)CitrusTheNile

[CrudShuzKong]

16 hours ago, hazerddex said:

*bump

FYI bumping is against the forum rules, if the mods catch you they will close your thread.

1. i agree with giving tailwind more maneuverability, but maybe just have it aim after your crosshair instead of implemeting complicated controls.

2. Divebomb already scales with drop distance (why do you not research things like this before posting?) but it is a horrible skill compared to most other 2 powers and should just be integrated into tailwind imo (when hitting the ground or maybe even walls it will trigger the the divebomb effect) and the augment should be included as well to free the aug up for the new 2 she will receive.

3. Great skill, needs some cleaning and fixing to make it more consistent and reliable though. Your recasting suggestion is fine, but i would like it to blow away enemy created hazards (mutalist moa tar and grineer fire) since such a mechanic doesnt even exist in the game yet and it fits zephyr perfectly.

4. Your tornado suggestions sound very much like the new magnetize mag is getting which i do like, but might need more differentiation. I wouldnt even mind completely changing the skill since i find it to be a very unreliable and, in comparison with others, very bad 4 power.

[ClinkzEastwood]

10 hours ago, (XB1)CitrusTheNile said:

Considering her dive bomb can suck enemies into her and knock them down for melee finishers with the right augment, she isn't as bad as many people claim considering she is good for defending points (Def, MD, Inter) and has good mobility and survivability. Plus she is a ton of fun to play compared to other frames. 

My melee slam can also do that without needing a dedicated frame.

[alergiclaprosti]

19 hours ago, (XB1)CitrusTheNile said:

Considering her dive bomb can suck enemies into her and knock them down for melee finishers with the right augment, she isn't as bad as many people claim considering she is good for defending points (Def, MD, Inter) and has good mobility and survivability. Plus she is a ton of fun to play compared to other frames. 

Enemies in 5 meters and you need to spend a slot for that!

More, as Zephyr, you want enemies anywhere but near you.

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

I'd like to see Dive Bomb work similar to MOA's in creating a visible shockwave upon impact so I can see the AoE.

I disagree with giving Zephyr the ability to fly.
           It trades off a cast move for an energy over time move. 
           It reduces risk involved with playing the character.

[GrimAtrament]

19 hours ago, CrudShuzKong said:

FYI bumping is against the forum rules, if the mods catch you they will close your thread.

1. i agree with giving tailwind more maneuverability, but maybe just have it aim after your crosshair instead of implemeting complicated controls.

2. Divebomb already scales with drop distance (why do you not research things like this before posting?) but it is a horrible skill compared to most other 2 powers and should just be integrated into tailwind imo (when hitting the ground or maybe even walls it will trigger the the divebomb effect) and the augment should be included as well to free the aug up for the new 2 she will receive.

3. Great skill, needs some cleaning and fixing to make it more consistent and reliable though. Your recasting suggestion is fine, but i would like it to blow away enemy created hazards (mutalist moa tar and grineer fire) since such a mechanic doesnt even exist in the game yet and it fits zephyr perfectly.

4. Your tornado suggestions sound very much like the new magnetize mag is getting which i do like, but might need more differentiation. I wouldnt even mind completely changing the skill since i find it to be a very unreliable and, in comparison with others, very bad 4 power.

Woops sorry I didn't know  I know dive bomb scales off distance but it does not scale hard enough and the shockwave  range does not increase with distance. ya maybe crosshairs would better but you would not be able to look around as easy while moving. Maybe add a bounce combo to dive bomb where when you hit the ground it bounces you back up

 

2 hours ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

I'd like to see Dive Bomb work similar to MOA's in creating a visible shockwave upon impact so I can see the AoE.

I disagree with giving Zephyr the ability to fly.
           It trades off a cast move for an energy over time move. 
           It reduces risk involved with playing the character.

The problem with tailwind is there's really no reason to use it with the new parkor system that's why I suggested flight of sorts 

[kristophy]

zehpers 1 could change but i can multiply her speed with a roll and bullet jump on top of her flight. i call it warp speed. and her 2 ummm. yea no sorry but its to much work and your that fast? i do not see its purpose. her 3 bombs for days. any projectile weapon ascends the gods. and her four is just well amazing if you build for her 3. witch every zheper player should do. zehper should not be built for blade game play. i do use the glave though. for better movement control and well projectiles gone speed force XD valkure would make more sense if you building for blades.

Edited April 13, 2016 by kristophy

[GrimAtrament]

20 minutes ago, kristophy said:

zehpers 1 could change but i can multiply her speed with a roll and bullet jump on top of her flight. i call it warp speed. and her 2 ummm. yea no sorry but its to much work and your that fast? i do not see its purpose. her 3 bombs for days. any projectile weapon ascends the gods. and her four is just well amazing if you build for her 3. witch every zheper player should do. zehper should not be built for blade game play. i do use the glave though. for better movement control and well projectiles gone speed force XD valkure would make more sense if you building for blades.

ya so could old  excals high jump if they kept it that. they still removed it because the new parkor system took away its utility 

no offence but your the first person iv seen who likes zephyr's current 4 also i said nothing was really wrong with 3 personaly terbulance actually i think its her best skill in her kit currently 

Edited April 13, 2016 by hazerddex

[kristophy]

7 minutes ago, hazerddex said:

ya so could old  excals high jump if they kept it that. they still removed it because the new parkor system took away its utility 

no offence but your the first person iv seen who likes zephyr's current 4 also i said nothing was really wrong with 3 personaly terbulance actually i think its her best skill in her kit currently 

could be the aoe i get from penta but my tornadoes are over powered. and they do a very good job if you put a good balance of mods. rage vitality blind rage stream line stretch i think is what boosts my build the most. sorry i just thought my two cents would change the point of a rework. (responding to every one) the only ability i do not get on her.  is her two i am good on every thing else but her two sucks. and do not for get your flow constitution and primed continuity the other slots aura and exmimus are rejuvenation and the aura booster basically making rejuve a plus 5.6 or what ever.

[GrimAtrament]

2 hours ago, kristophy said:

could be the aoe i get from penta but my tornadoes are over powered. and they do a very good job if you put a good balance of mods. rage vitality blind rage stream line stretch i think is what boosts my build the most. sorry i just thought my two cents would change the point of a rework. (responding to every one) the only ability i do not get on her.  is her two i am good on every thing else but her two sucks. and do not for get your flow constitution and primed continuity the other slots aura and exmimus are rejuvenation and the aura booster basically making rejuve a plus 5.6 or what ever.

once again i dont think shes terrible  but i do feel like she needs  some adjustment. and i think tornados main problem is it has absolutely no synrgy with her other skills.  that and its tendacy to end up in a spot where no enemies are and contribute nothing 

Edited April 13, 2016 by hazerddex

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

Zephyrs 4 is an amazing skill. Its used to perform Crowd Control.
            In rooms with low ceilings it traps enemies at the ceiling making them open to attacks. 
            It tosses enemies around when enemies become overwhelming in an area, great for defense and interception.
            It also does pretty decent damage. Since it can take elemental form.

Most people are upset about Zephyrs 4 not being able to instant kill or be controlled however they fail to acknowledge that having an ultimate that forces enemies to be unable to attack is just as "Ultimate" as any other frame. Its a skill that allows you to hold off enemies while doing something else completely.

Zephyrs 1 as mentioned above enhances her abilities.
            Used at the end of bullet jump grants Zephyr, "Warp Speed". Fastest traveling of any character.
            Gives Zephyr an enhanced* jump, so she can stay in the air even longer. (Staying in the air with Zephyr at tailwind height avoids targeting from almost all enemies) 
            Causes guaranteed knockdown

I do agree though that Dive Bomb sucks. However, it may just be me because I have low range on Zephyr. 

Edited April 15, 2016 by (PS4)RenovaKunumaru

[Mephiste]

On 12/4/2016 at 7:11 AM, ClinkzEastwood said:

She's not a bad frame, it's just that 3 out of her 4 skills are utterly useless.

Same for Vauban then. Only Bastille is good, Vortex being debatably good.

[CrudShuzKong]

6 hours ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

Zephyrs 4 is an amazing skill. Its used to perform Crowd Control.
            In rooms with low ceilings it traps enemies at the ceiling making them open to attacks. 
            It tosses enemies around when enemies become overwhelming in an area, great for defense and interception.
            It also does pretty decent damage. Since it can take elemental form.

Just because zephyrs 4 is cc doesnt make it good cc though. As you said, in order to cc enemies and not just disperse them all over the room (diminishing your aoe) you need to only use it in low ceiling rooms. in addittion to that it only affects 2 tightly packed groups of enemies right away (which you dont really have control over) and from then on its rng if it ever gets that one enemy you really need cced. All that I could look past if only the damn tornadoes wouldnt block all the projectiles im trying to shoot at enemies inside the twister (because it wants to apply my shot's elements). Making enemies take way less damage makes it practically pointless as cc (aside from panicbutton for reviving others) and most other cc outshines it thus.

I really have a hard time seeing how the tornadoes are a good power, they are kind of funny, but not good at all...

Edited April 14, 2016 by CrudShuzKong

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

17 minutes ago, CrudShuzKong said:

Just because zephyrs 4 is cc doesnt make it good cc though. As you said, in order to cc enemies and not just disperse them all over the room (diminishing your aoe) you need to only use it in low ceiling rooms. in addittion to that it only affects 2 tightly packed groups of enemies right away (which you dont really have control over) and from then on its rng if it ever gets that one enemy you really need cced. All that I could look past if only the damn tornadoes wouldnt block all the projectiles im trying to shoot at enemies inside the twister (because it wants to apply my shot's elements). Making enemies take way less damage makes it practically pointless as cc (aside from panicbutton for reviving others) and most other cc outshines it thus.

I really have a hard time seeing how the tornadoes are a good power, they are kind of funny, but not good at all...

Perhaps I've used the wrong word to describe the tornadoes. They are a good zoning technique. Tossing enemies around believe it or not makes it easier to manage when many of them engage around a single zone. In my opinion it's much easier to fight a hord of enemies when half of them can't fight you back because their being thrown.

 

When using the tornados, cast when your trying to zone a position. Ignore all of the enemies who are being lifted and attack the ones who aren't. If they're all being lifted then attack them while they are in the tornado. Then attack the enemies who get thrown out of the tornado because the still have to pick themselves off the ground. They should have already sustained enough damage to be weak enough to kill if they didn't already die.

 

I don't understand how people claim theyre useless. Just because the move may not do what you (and I'm not singling anyone out just making a generalization) want it to do does not make it useless. I personally find the move fantastic. When I use 4, I don't expect it to kill unless it's on weaker mobs. I expect it to reduce the centralized threat of too many enemies in a single position and it does that extremely well.

 

 

[CrudShuzKong]

7 hours ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

I don't understand how people claim theyre useless. Just because the move may not do what you (and I'm not singling anyone out just making a generalization) want it to do does not make it useless. I personally find the move fantastic. When I use 4, I don't expect it to kill unless it's on weaker mobs. I expect it to reduce the centralized threat of too many enemies in a single position and it does that extremely well.

 

I agree that they are not useless, but they are way underwhelming compared to what other ultimates can do so i also understand people hating on the ability as much as they do.

[IceColdas]

I think they could combine Tailwind with Divebomb, into one skill. You're normally not looking up for Divebomb, or down for Tailwind. You can't even use Divebomb on the ground, so that doesn't clash either.

For a second ability, I'd suggest a wind blast, but that's already available to Banshee.

A second ability could spawn a single, stationary Tornado, which can be used to block off/slow down specific pathways. Or a skill something like this.

Being able to cancel your Tornadoes would also be neat.

Edited April 19, 2016 by IceColdas

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

2 hours ago, IceColdas said:

I think they could combine Tailwind with Divebomb, into one skill. You're normally not looking up for Divebomb, or down for Tailwind. You can't even use Divebomb on the ground, so that doesn't clash either.

For a second ability, I'd suggest a wind blast, but that's already available to Banshee.

A second ability could spawn a single, stationary Tornado, which can be used to block off/slow down specific pathways. Or a skill something like this.

Being able to cancel your Tornadoes would also be neat.

I actually do aim downwards for tailwind sometimes. Not straight down of course but at an angle. 

Honestly I think if the just showed the area of effect the dive had in which it knocked down people that it would be more widely used. 

[CrudShuzKong]

4 hours ago, IceColdas said:

I think they could combine Tailwind with Divebomb, into one skill. You're normally not looking up for Divebomb, or down for Tailwind. You can't even use Divebomb on the ground, so that doesn't clash either.

 

it doesnt even have to switch funcionality with the directin you are looking in. They just can make it that if tailwind crashes into a wall/the ground it triggers the divebomb impact. That way you get divebomb by aiming downwards too, but never any missfires.

[SpinnningSideKick]

Id like to see tailwind go away. Its just not fun or intuitive to use like most other warframes I have played with so far. Only thing I can think of to replace it is a missile ability like the archwings. Press a button and the missiles track their own targets, just a simple self guided attack that dosnt do great damage. Relatively low energy cost so you can spam it while cruising over a map. An attack you can launch without thinking about, or aiming. Simple to use but relatively effective.

Dive Bomb is fine, but I would like to see it work on air targets like Ospreys though. I know its a ground effect, and is a knock down thing, but its what I would like. She is the air warframe and is not at all about air superiority. Which I kinda think she should be. 

I like Hazerdex suggestion for Turbulence. It would be a nice tweek. 

Tornado is fine, and I like it the way it is. If I was going to tweek it, I would just make it a bit cheaper to use. Maybe 15-20% less energy to use. 

So far I have played Mag, Valkyr, Rhino, Oberon, Nyx and Zephyr. Nyx has my favourite powers, but Zephyr is by far my favourite to actually play. Shes fast, agile, intuitive (except for tailwind) and just plain fun to run around with. I love Zephyr. Only thing I dont like about her is tailwind and the fact she is so new and wont get a prime for like a year and a bit. 

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

35 minutes ago, SpinnningSideKick said:

Id like to see tailwind go away. Its just not fun or intuitive to use like most other warframes I have played with so far. Only thing I can think of to replace it is a missile ability like the archwings. Press a button and the missiles track their own targets, just a simple self guided attack that dosnt do great damage. Relatively low energy cost so you can spam it while cruising over a map. An attack you can launch without thinking about, or aiming. Simple to use but relatively effective.

Dive Bomb is fine, but I would like to see it work on air targets like Ospreys though. I know its a ground effect, and is a knock down thing, but its what I would like. She is the air warframe and is not at all about air superiority. Which I kinda think she should be. 

I like Hazerdex suggestion for Turbulence. It would be a nice tweek. 

Tornado is fine, and I like it the way it is. If I was going to tweek it, I would just make it a bit cheaper to use. Maybe 15-20% less energy to use. 

So far I have played Mag, Valkyr, Rhino, Oberon, Nyx and Zephyr. Nyx has my favourite powers, but Zephyr is by far my favourite to actually play. Shes fast, agile, intuitive (except for tailwind) and just plain fun to run around with. I love Zephyr. Only thing I dont like about her is tailwind and the fact she is so new and wont get a prime for like a year and a bit. 

Tailwind is essential to her kit. If you're not using it often, you're not playing well to Zephyrs strengths. Your post suggests that you may be relatively new to Zephyr.

I'm all for small tweaks and damage changes but not removing moves.

[SpinnningSideKick]

Ive been playing her for about a week now, 3 days at rank 30 and no potatoe. Unless I get someone to buy my prime junk and I can make enough plat to buy another slot I have to sell her to rank another frame, which sucks because she is fun to play. 

I do feel like I need to say this though. 

I dont like tailwind. Its not fun for me. I dont use it often for those reasons.

If you dont want to hear what folks have to say. Why are you in the feedback threads? ( Not a rhetorical question) 

An opinion was asked for and was given freely. You arent going to like them all. Thats just what freedom looks like man. 

[Lyravain]

On 14/4/2016 at 9:23 AM, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

Perhaps I've used the wrong word to describe the tornadoes. They are a good zoning technique. Tossing enemies around believe it or not makes it easier to manage when many of them engage around a single zone. In my opinion it's much easier to fight a hord of enemies when half of them can't fight you back because their being thrown.

 

When using the tornados, cast when your trying to zone a position. Ignore all of the enemies who are being lifted and attack the ones who aren't. If they're all being lifted then attack them while they are in the tornado. Then attack the enemies who get thrown out of the tornado because the still have to pick themselves off the ground. They should have already sustained enough damage to be weak enough to kill if they didn't already die.

 

I don't understand how people claim theyre useless. Just because the move may not do what you (and I'm not singling anyone out just making a generalization) want it to do does not make it useless. I personally find the move fantastic. When I use 4, I don't expect it to kill unless it's on weaker mobs. I expect it to reduce the centralized threat of too many enemies in a single position and it does that extremely well.

 

 

Just the simple fact that the tornadoes throw enemies around, make them a bad power. Have you tried shooting those guys? Unless you're carrying a beam weapon or full-auto with a huge clip, it's a pain. Try to benchmark it by using other CC-based 4th abilities, like Mirage or, hell, Banshee. In both cases, you stun-lock the enemy and have an easy time popping their heads off. I'm not even bringing up Nezha (gotta love dem spears) or Trinity's 'Invulnerable Mode'.