Zephyr tweaks/rework

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

5 hours ago, SpinnningSideKick said:

If you dont want to hear what folks have to say. Why are you in the feedback threads? ( Not a rhetorical question) 

An opinion was asked for and was given freely. You arent going to like them all. Thats just what freedom looks like man. 

At what point did I make it clear that I didn't want to hear what folks wanted to say? Please don't start this kind of rhetoric here. My statement did nothing to insist that you didn't belong in this thread.
 

4 hours ago, Lyravain said:

Just the simple fact that the tornadoes throw enemies around, make them a bad power. Have you tried shooting those guys? Unless you're carrying a beam weapon or full-auto with a huge clip, it's a pain. Try to benchmark it by using other CC-based 4th abilities, like Mirage or, hell, Banshee. In both cases, you stun-lock the enemy and have an easy time popping their heads off. I'm not even bringing up Nezha (gotta love dem spears) or Trinity's 'Invulnerable Mode'.

The very fact that its not another stun move makes me enjoy them more. With the exception of Nezha, you're asking Zephyr's ability to be compared with some of the abilities on the forums that are most asked to be nerfed.

I almost feel like you didn't read my statement which you quoted. As a Zephyr, or any character for that matter, you can give your tornados a status to effect the enemies trapped in them however you should not be targeting them while they are lifted. You should be targeting those who were not lifted or just fell out of the wind and landed.

I disagree with you on the skill being bad. It may not be to your liking however that doesn't suggest that the move is bad or has no purpose in the kit.

[Birdframe_Prime]

I've been on a lot of these threads about Zephyr (she's my favourite frame by far, even if I don't play her as much as I should, she's still... what 20% of my game time since I over-played her on relese?), and there's a couple of tweaks or changes I'd definitely make, and some I'd like to see, or get thoughts on.

You see, she's fun, which is more important to me than most other things, but I feel that DE themed her for 'the air warframe' without the ability to do a lot of things yet. Her abilities don't really synergise well, and her 4 is considered bad by most because it's uncontrollable, low damage and inconvenient for your squad.

Lots of text incoming!

1. Tailwind is, I agree, essential kit. It's the single reason I downloaded Warframe; seeing one that could shoot through the air that fast. If I could, I would also like to make it slightly more manueverable in the way suggested earlier (having it follow your crosshairs a little) because of the next change.

2. Divebomb is pretty much an extension of Tailwind, it's a high-speed Heavy Impact. That's it. It should, honestly, be combined with Tailwind so that if you impact a surface at high speed, you trigger that knockdown. (As a note, the reason that the impact area is so small is because Zephyr is so light, she's not Rhino, don't expect so much XD.) The mechanics are in the game now to detect impacts like this with the new parkour, so having it not trigger every time you brush an object is also possible.

3. Turbulence has gone through a lot of changes, most of which people don't notice (hit-scan tunnels anyone?), but one of the most frustrating faults is that at high level the 'accuracy debuff' it gives enemies is cancelled by the scaling up of the enemy accuracy. Basically high level enemies using hit-scan weapons are nearly unaffected by it. Scaling this debuff for higher enemies is a definite must.

4. Wow... this was a let-down when I got into it. Chucking tornadoes around? Awesome. Changing their damage type? Awesome. The inability to shoot through them at enemies? Not so. Having them wander off and hit corners, or even clip through walls and off the map? No. The inability to re-cast? The fact that your squad now can't kill enemies in survival to get drops? The fact that you can only hope it hits an important enemy instead of the fodder? THE FACT THAT RESOURCES AND AMMO GET STUCK IN THE CEILING OR OUT THE MAP OR GET THROWN AWAY BY THEM TOO?! The list goes on. Zoning, as one responder who loves this ability said, is fine. It's not actual cc, though, and definitely unreliable.

To fix Tornado, I'd make them a toggle-able follow ability like World On Fire. The funnels track Zephyr and CC the area around her, ammo drops are collected by them like Vauban's Singularity. They would only need a boost in speed and a loose tether to the frame, meaning they wouldn't hit everything immediately, like World on Fire, but they would be controllable to an extent and not get lost. Speaking of controllable... the thought brought me to the new 2. 

Her new 2 would have to be something that exploits her long-distance nature, offers some CC and, a rare thought, actually does damage. I'd say that something like a 'wind lance', a quick single-hand attack that provides knock-down and puncture damage(/puncture proc) on a single enemy. The damage, like Dive Bomb, would scale with distance, so a long range lance would do more than a short range, it would give players something to do besides shoot guns when they're floating in the air and also possibly work with with her 4.

Synergy! How about that her Tail Wind would now drag her tame tornadoes along the same line, through the air, as a massive directed cc through groups. Wind Lance would launch a tornado down the length of the attack, knocking down and lifting enemies (shoot all four in sequence and it becomes normal Wind Lance again while the tornadoes return to Zephyr). Turbulence would now feed off the tornadoes and provide Zephyr herself with a tornado effect, drawing in and ragdolling enemies for melee or close-range attacks, great for finishers, also great for CC when overwhelmed.

You could then add more with the augments: while using Zephyr's Turbulence Augment, which causes projectiles to fly faster, Wind Lance would hit faster and do more damage. Or the old Dive Bomb Augment would cause Lance to do an area knock-down that scales with the distance. And the Tornado Augment which produces the multiple tiny-nadoes that do more damage, but don't lift enemies, would make it possible to spam tiny-nado Wind Lance up to twelve times!

TL;DR

Combine Dive Bomb into Tailwind, new 2 for wind-based knock-down/damage, make 4 follow and toggle for control, loot and to not annoy team as much. Much more synergy possible with new set-up, especially with Augments.

So... yeah, a tweak here, a change there, I think it would completely update her to compete with the newer warframes.

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

19 minutes ago, Thaylien said:

TL;DR

Combine Dive Bomb into Tailwind, new 2 for wind-based knock-down/damage, make 4 follow and toggle for control, loot and to not annoy team as much. Much more synergy possible with new set-up, especially with Augments.

So... yeah, a tweak here, a change there, I think it would completely update her to compete with the newer warframes.

I read every single word by the way. 

1. I'm glad you agree. I too feel like a slight maneuverability buff could be beneficial. We can already do that to an extent, but who's opposed to buffs here?

2. You know what, after considering the possibilities, I have to agree with this point as well.
     To all who mentioned above about combining tailwind with Dive Bomb, I'm on board now!
     I think it would be advantageous to dive bomb and recover quickly on impacting walls with turbulence rather than having Zephyr fly in place against a wall for           misguided aim. 

3. This is where I become a bit jaded on the issue. I understand the scaling between the accuracy debuff of Zephyrs Turbulence and the higher level targets. It sucks getting one shot by higher level enemies. On this issue, I usually make sure to stay in the air as long as possible, (and as high as possible) because that's where enemies accuracy becomes 0%. I usually take the opportunity to land in a location where there are less or no enemies present and recast tailwind to return to the fight.

In my view, increasing the scaling of the debuff may lean towards a bit too powerful turbulence. Changing Zephyr from a Hawk to a Phoenix. I wouldn't want Zephyr to be among the next targets to have "Nerf This DE" in every thread but thats DE's decision overall with this move.

4. This is where I agree and disagree a bit.

• Tornadoes going off the map and out of bounds..unacceptable.
• Your squad can still kill enemies when you use Tornadoes.
• Resources and ammo getting stuck outside the map..unacceptable. (I've never seen this though.)
• When you cast Tornadoes and they prohibit the enemies from advancing their objective, that's crowd control. Even if they wander off further away later, the initial cause always lands on the surrounding targets and attempts to get more. 
• Tornadoes should be toggle. Toggle with Duration not Efficiency. 

While I'd prefer leaving her tornadoes as a stand alone attack which doesn't follow you around like you suggested, I cant hate your enthusiasm for wanted a stronger kill move. I like being able to cast them on a zone and then walk away for 20 seconds.

Those are just my opinions though. For the most part, I think we agree that she only needs small tweaks, not a major overhall.

[SpinnningSideKick]

10 hours ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

At what point did I make it clear that I didn't want to hear what folks wanted to say? Please don't start this kind of rhetoric here. My statement did nothing to insist that you didn't belong in this thread.
 

The very fact that its not another stun move makes me enjoy them more. With the exception of Nezha, you're asking Zephyr's ability to be compared with some of the abilities on the forums that are most asked to be nerfed.

I almost feel like you didn't read my statement which you quoted. As a Zephyr, or any character for that matter, you can give your tornados a status to effect the enemies trapped in them however you should not be targeting them while they are lifted. You should be targeting those who were not lifted or just fell out of the wind and landed.

I disagree with you on the skill being bad. It may not be to your liking however that doesn't suggest that the move is bad or has no purpose in the kit.

I dont think rhetoric means what you think it does. As I said before. I gave an opinion on the warframe, additionally I clarified it. 

rhet·o·ric

ˈredərik/

noun

 

1. the art of effective or persuasive speaking or writing, especially the use of figures of speech and other compositional techniques.

   synonyms:

   oratory, eloquence, command of language, way with words "a form of rhetoric"

   • language designed to have a persuasive or impressive effect on its audience, but often regarded as lacking in sincerity or meaningful content.

[Azzaruth]

20 hours ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

Tailwind is essential to her kit. If you're not using it often, you're not playing well to Zephyrs strengths. Your post suggests that you may be relatively new to Zephyr.

I'm all for small tweaks and damage changes but not removing moves.

I have to agree with this, using Zephyr quite often, I must say I would be really sad if her tailwind was removed. It could use some quality of life like combining it with Divebomb if she hits the ground with it, being able to change momentum instantly while in tail wind, and being able to cast another tail wind mid tailwind, but overall I really like the skill.

Edited April 21, 2016 by Esorono

[SpinnningSideKick]

8 minutes ago, Esorono said:

I have to agree with this, using Zephyr quite often, I must say I would be really sad if her tailwind was removed. It could use some quality of life like combining it with Divebomb if he hits the ground with it, being able to change momentum instantly while in tail wind, and being able to cast another tail wind mid tailwind, but overall I really like the skill.

That could make it more viable. It make it more fun for folks like me that dont like it as it is. 

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

1 hour ago, Esorono said:

I have to agree with this, using Zephyr quite often, I must say I would be really sad if her tailwind was removed. It could use some quality of life like combining it with Divebomb if he hits the ground with it, being able to change momentum instantly while in tail wind, and being able to cast another tail wind mid tailwind, but overall I really like the skill.

Imagine if tailwind had the divebomb affect on any collision..No more flying into walls in Void. Now you'd slam into them and recover as if you used divebomb on the wall and caused AoE damage and knockdown to nearby enemies.

One can dream right?

[Cat__Nap]

On 4/20/2016 at 2:23 AM, SpinnningSideKick said:

Id like to see tailwind go away. Its just not fun or intuitive to use like most other warframes I have played with so far.

If you're not using Tailwind as Zephyr, you're playing her wrong. Saying that Tornado is "fine as is" also goes to show that you have no idea what her strengths or weaknesses are, because that's a seriously crap skill. You talk about how you like her speed, but you don't use the one ability she has that enables her to travel across an entire map faster than any other warframe, except for possibly Nezha. Playing a warframe for a week without a potato on it doesn't let you see its true potential, or lack thereof. 

Zephyr is my favorite frame, and she's tanky as hell with Turbulence, but Tornado needs some serious reworks to be viable (it's honestly a nuisance - I was one of those people that irritated entire parties by spamming it when I first started the game, and I learned a long time ago how much that screws your party over). Loot flying off into the abyss isn't helping anyone. Mobs flying everywhere but not dying isn't helping anyone. Not being able to shoot any of them isn't helping anyone. Seriously, it's a pretty skill, and it's arguably good for "oh, sh--" moments, but that's it. It has no practical use unless you're using it in an emergency to get time to res someone...but honestly I just resort to Turbulence for that.

As for the OP, yes, she needs tweaks. Turbulence still needs some scaling, even though it's amazing as-is and I hope the mechanics aren't changed (just hitscan accuracy at higher levels). Dive Bomb is useless on its own, and does need to either be merged with Tailwind or just removed and replaced with something useful - I really only ever use it if I need to stop mid-air very quickly, but if it was merged, we could still do that with 1, and if it was just outright dropped...well, I wouldn't miss it. I do really like the suggestion that someone had to make Tornado similar to World on Fire, but a bit different - not screwing people over by throwing all their mats into voids in Corpus ships would be nice, and having a useful 4 would be even nicer.

[SpinnningSideKick]

1 hour ago, Catoriii said:

If you're not using Tailwind as Zephyr, you're playing her wrong. Saying that Tornado is "fine as is" also goes to show that you have no idea what her strengths or weaknesses are, because that's a seriously crap skill. You talk about how you like her speed, but you don't use the one ability she has that enables her to travel across an entire map faster than any other warframe, except for possibly Nezha. Playing a warframe for a week without a potato on it doesn't let you see its true potential, or lack thereof. 

Zephyr is my favorite frame, and she's tanky as hell with Turbulence, but Tornado needs some serious reworks to be viable (it's honestly a nuisance - I was one of those people that irritated entire parties by spamming it when I first started the game, and I learned a long time ago how much that screws your party over). Loot flying off into the abyss isn't helping anyone. Mobs flying everywhere but not dying isn't helping anyone. Not being able to shoot any of them isn't helping anyone. Seriously, it's a pretty skill, and it's arguably good for "oh, sh--" moments, but that's it. It has no practical use unless you're using it in an emergency to get time to res someone...but honestly I just resort to Turbulence for that.

As for the OP, yes, she needs tweaks. Turbulence still needs some scaling, even though it's amazing as-is and I hope the mechanics aren't changed (just hitscan accuracy at higher levels). Dive Bomb is useless on its own, and does need to either be merged with Tailwind or just removed and replaced with something useful - I really only ever use it if I need to stop mid-air very quickly, but if it was merged, we could still do that with 1, and if it was just outright dropped...well, I wouldn't miss it. I do really like the suggestion that someone had to make Tornado similar to World on Fire, but a bit different - not screwing people over by throwing all their mats into voids in Corpus ships would be nice, and having a useful 4 would be even nicer.

Ive been playing her for about a week now, 3 days at rank 30 and no potatoe. Unless I get someone to buy my prime junk and I can make enough plat to buy another slot I have to sell her to rank another frame, which sucks because she is fun to play. 

I do feel like I need to say this though. 

I dont like tailwind. Its not fun for me. I dont use it often for those reasons

I copy and pasted my comment you are replying to to save some time. The change I made is I put the relevant text you seem to have missed in bold face. 

Orokin reactors arent dropping out of the sky in every mission. If they arent really common, and seem to be kinda rare. Why would I waste one on a warframe I have every intention of selling off? Dosnt make much sense to me.  Since we are pointing out mistakes for each other, thought one good turn deserves another. 

Edited April 22, 2016 by SpinnningSideKick

[CrudShuzKong]

2 hours ago, SpinnningSideKick said:

I dont like tailwind. Its not fun for me. I dont use it often for those reasons

I guess you should just sell zephyr then, cause this is her signature move. I really like using it to dash around the map and get some air time to rain death from above. It can be quite clunky to handle sometimes though, since it is really hard to gauge the interactions with your current momentum.

So all in all I want to keep the power but with huge buffs and maybe some QoL changes for easier handling.

[Birdframe_Prime]

Thanks for reading, I do appreciate it, so in return a couple of points that would bring things a little more in line.

On 4/20/2016 at 6:21 PM, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

In my view, increasing the scaling of the debuff may lean towards a bit too powerful turbulence. Changing Zephyr from a Hawk to a Phoenix. I wouldn't want Zephyr to be among the next targets to have "Nerf This DE" in every thread but thats DE's decision overall with this move.

I kind of see where you're going, but I don't think that a scaling will make things overpowered. You see, as I understand the way it works, the debuff is applied as a set percentage to the total accuracy. If accuracy is 50%, the debuff is then -98% giving them a 1% chance to hit, scale to 100% accuracy with the level and it's a total of 2%. As the level gets higher, the accuracy buff reaches 500%, you have a 10% chance to hit. Moving up, to even higher levels makes it more and more difficult for the debuff to affect anything at all and suddenly every third shot from a heavy gunner is ripping through your Turbulence as if it wasn't there.

What I'm suggesting is that, while Turbulence is active, the hit-percent is actually given its own chance-to-hit calculation that then applies every time a ranged enemy targets Zephyr instead of the unit's current one. That way it can be tweaked and modified for balance, able to make the ability not overpowered at any level, without having to change the hit graphs overall, or constantly trying to shift the percentage over the course of the level progression.

So that was the thought there, but there was another point I wanted to clear up;

On 4/20/2016 at 6:21 PM, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

While I'd prefer leaving her tornadoes as a stand alone attack which doesn't follow you around like you suggested, I cant hate your enthusiasm for wanted a stronger kill move. I like being able to cast them on a zone and then walk away for 20 seconds.

If I sounded like I wanted a kill move, I apologise. Tornado has always been a CC move, and only situationally a kill move. I don't want this to change to one any more than I want to see Turbulence become OP.

The fire-and-forget nature of the Tornadoes is what the majority of people, including me, find unfortunate about the ability. The fact that they move slowly, their targeting is negligible and that they last too long on duration builds is also what frustrates squad members.

I see where you enjoy the area denial, that's a great ability and frames like Vauban do it as their speciality. The proposition of fixing her 4 so that it patrols an area, providing zoning without wandering off, and targets enemies better (or by priority of unit class), and so that it sucks in mods and doesn't scatter them is a good idea. But I don't think it's one that plays to her strength of mobility.

Allow me to wax prosaic.

The most fun I've seen people have with Zephyr is on missions like Capture, where you can blitz through for thirty seconds, reach your target, recast and dash to the next while enemies can barely touch you. Then there are the times when they find that they can just throw Tornadoes in the middle of a crowd and they all go flying into the air, watching the chaos as they defend a mobile defense target or an interception node by picking off everything that's thrown out the top. I've even known a couple of players to yell 'Pull!' when they do it, so we can all have some ragdoll air-shot practice. Those parts of her, the mobility, defense and the ragdoll, are fun to play. They feel like you're doing something the other frames can't do.

But the limitations are many with that. No direct CC, only zoning; no offense, only evasion and defense... it's not fun to play a frame that can't actually directly influence the battlefield without a risky move that leaves her vulnerable to any and all units that it doesn't manage to hit (dive bomb). While you can do things others can't, you also can't do what all the rest of them can; directly manipulate the enemies. Power over Air is a less direct one, yes, but with Tornado it doesn't need to be. It shows that air is a force, especially when its at full power. Heck knows, even the least played frame on PC, Banshee, has a knock-down using sound waves as her first ability, if she can do that, why can't Zephyr do it better?

Put simply:

Rather than a kill move, like Ember's World On Fire, I want to see Tornado make Zephyr one of the best rag-doll causing frames in the game. I want players to be able to build her into a bowling-ball that can sprint through a level and knock everything out of her path for others to finish off, or build her as a ranged supporter where she can effectively pin-point deny a heavy unit from the air with either a directed dive-bomb or ranged knock-down from that new 2 ability I mentioned.

Dragging those tornadoes around with her, the ability to direct them at an enemy we choose, that would make them truly a CC ability that would balance out more with the current way Warframe plays. It won't be a kill move, but it will make it compete as one of the best 'soft' cc abilities available and allow her to be modded in different ways to play to different strengths.

More importantly! All of those team mates that get annoyed because enemies are flying everywhere and not being shot don't get annoyed anymore! Enemies are being lifted in a small area that is under your complete control, and can be turned off the moment they aren't needed anymore, loot is no longer flying everywhere as it's being gathered up by them and they would, potentially, make her a quirky alternative to Frost on defense while running with a Disarm Loki (all those mobs running right at you to get in melee range, suddenly rag-dolled and pushed back).

The codex of her says that she specialises in air attacks, but she has no actual attacks with air power, just a body-slam and a meandering set of tornadoes. See where I'm coming from?

[Birdframe_Prime]

Thanks for reading, I do appreciate it, so in return a couple of points that would bring things a little more in line.

On 4/20/2016 at 6:21 PM, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

In my view, increasing the scaling of the debuff may lean towards a bit too powerful turbulence. Changing Zephyr from a Hawk to a Phoenix. I wouldn't want Zephyr to be among the next targets to have "Nerf This DE" in every thread but thats DE's decision overall with this move.

I kind of see where you're going, but I don't think that a scaling will make things overpowered. You see, as I understand the way it works, the debuff is applied as a set percentage to the total accuracy. If accuracy is 50%, the debuff is then -98% giving them a 1% chance to hit, scale to 100% accuracy with the level and it's a total of 2%. As the level gets higher, the accuracy buff reaches 500%, you have a 10% chance to hit. Moving up, to even higher levels makes it more and more difficult for the debuff to affect anything at all and suddenly every third shot from a heavy gunner is ripping through your Turbulence as if it wasn't there.

What I'm suggesting is that, while Turbulence is active, the hit-percent is actually given its own chance-to-hit calculation that then applies every time a ranged enemy targets Zephyr instead of the unit's current one. That way it can be tweaked and modified for balance, able to make the ability not overpowered at any level, without having to change the hit graphs overall, or constantly trying to shift the percentage over the course of the level progression.

So that was the thought there, but there was another point I wanted to clear up;

On 4/20/2016 at 6:21 PM, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

While I'd prefer leaving her tornadoes as a stand alone attack which doesn't follow you around like you suggested, I cant hate your enthusiasm for wanted a stronger kill move. I like being able to cast them on a zone and then walk away for 20 seconds.

If I sounded like I wanted a kill move, I apologise. Tornado has always been a CC move, and only situationally a kill move. I don't want this to change to one any more than I want to see Turbulence become OP.

The fire-and-forget nature of the Tornadoes is what the majority of people, including me, find unfortunate about the ability. The fact that they move slowly, their targeting is negligible and that they last too long on duration builds is also what frustrates squad members.

I see where you enjoy the area denial, that's a great ability and frames like Vauban do it as their speciality. The proposition of fixing her 4 so that it patrols an area, providing zoning without wandering off, and targets enemies better (or by priority of unit class), and so that it sucks in mods and doesn't scatter them is a good idea. But I don't think it's one that plays to her strength of mobility.

Allow me to wax prosaic.

The most fun I've seen people have with Zephyr is on missions like Capture, where you can blitz through for thirty seconds, reach your target, recast and dash to the next while enemies can barely touch you. Then there are the times when they find that they can just throw Tornadoes in the middle of a crowd and they all go flying into the air, watching the chaos as they defend a mobile defense target or an interception node by picking off everything that's thrown out the top. I've even known a couple of players to yell 'Pull!' when they do it, so we can all have some ragdoll air-shot practice. Those parts of her, the mobility, defense and the ragdoll, are fun to play. They feel like you're doing something the other frames can't do.

But the limitations are many with that. No direct CC, only zoning; no offense, only evasion and defense... it's not fun to play a frame that can't actually directly influence the battlefield without a risky move that leaves her vulnerable to any and all units that it doesn't manage to hit (dive bomb). While you can do things others can't, you also can't do what all the rest of them can; directly manipulate the enemies. Power over Air is a less direct one, yes, but with Tornado it doesn't need to be. It shows that air is a force, especially when its at full power. Heck knows, even the least played frame on PC, Banshee, has a knock-down using sound waves as her first ability, if she can do that, why can't Zephyr do it better?

Put simply:

Rather than a kill move, like Ember's World On Fire, I want to see Tornado make Zephyr one of the best rag-doll causing frames in the game. I want players to be able to build her into a bowling-ball that can sprint through a level and knock everything out of her path for others to finish off, or build her as a ranged supporter where she can effectively pin-point deny a heavy unit from the air with either a directed dive-bomb or ranged knock-down from that new 2 ability I mentioned.

Dragging those tornadoes around with her, the ability to direct them at an enemy we choose, that would make them truly a CC ability that would balance out more with the current way Warframe plays. It won't be a kill move, but it will make it compete as one of the best 'soft' cc abilities available and allow her to be modded in different ways to play to different strengths.

More importantly! All of those team mates that get annoyed because enemies are flying everywhere and not being shot don't get annoyed anymore! Enemies are being lifted in a small area that is under your complete control, and can be turned off the moment they aren't needed anymore, loot is no longer flying everywhere as it's being gathered up by them and they would, potentially, make her a quirky alternative to Frost on defense while running with a Disarm Loki (all those mobs running right at you to get in melee range, suddenly rag-dolled and pushed back).

The codex of her says that she specialises in air attacks, but she has no actual attacks with air power, just a body-slam and a meandering set of tornadoes. See where I'm coming from?

[Cat__Nap]

14 hours ago, SpinnningSideKick said:

Ive been playing her for about a week now, 3 days at rank 30 and no potatoe. Unless I get someone to buy my prime junk and I can make enough plat to buy another slot I have to sell her to rank another frame, which sucks because she is fun to play. 

I do feel like I need to say this though. 

I dont like tailwind. Its not fun for me. I dont use it often for those reasons

I copy and pasted my comment you are replying to to save some time. The change I made is I put the relevant text you seem to have missed in bold face. 

Orokin reactors arent dropping out of the sky in every mission. If they arent really common, and seem to be kinda rare. Why would I waste one on a warframe I have every intention of selling off? Dosnt make much sense to me.  Since we are pointing out mistakes for each other, thought one good turn deserves another. 

If you don't like her signature skill, why do you enjoy her? Potato or not doesn't matter - the playstyle really doesn't change for zephyr just because you have more points, unlike some frames that need heavy modding in order to fully test out their mechanics. Without Tailwind, you have...Turbulence. That's it. She's tanky and pretty much invincible against lower level corpus and grineer assuming you don't run out of energy, but Tailwind makes the frame what she is, and if all you're looking for is tanky, there are far better frames that actually have use for the party. And I read just fine, thanks - just because you don't like the ability doesn't mean it's bad or that it needs to be changed.

You keep talking about how fun she is but then keep mentioning that you're selling her, lol. If you don't like her enough to keep her and obviously don't know how her skills work, why bother making suggestions that would essentially neuter her current design that many people enjoy?

[Viedra_Lavinova]

I only use Zephyr for her jet stream as a quasi Volt speed. Some of the maps do accommodate for the distance zephyr can cover with tail wind. Dive bomb is a bad skill, integrate it into tailwind to make tailwind more useful. Tornados are a team troll as much as Cataclysm is, the need some attention.

[CrudShuzKong]

Well guys it is going to happen again... The Fairy frame that was teased at pax east panel might get "archwing like" movement, taking another thing away that fits really well with zephyr, just like the sandstorm inaros got... At this rate, every suggestion we make for zephyr will become part of an new warframe instead of revitilazing poor aged zephyr...

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

On 4/22/2016 at 9:17 AM, Thaylien said:

Thanks for reading, I do appreciate it, so in return a couple of points that would bring things a little more in line.

Shorted Text but I read it all.

Perhaps a bit of scaling wouldn't hurt adding to the frame. I wouldn't refuse it but should DE not do this it wouldn't be an end all be all thing for Zephyr, just rather annoying being one shot by a hitscan randomly.

In the area of Tornado, I think it would make people happier if the Tornados had better damage scaling and could trap enemies until its duration. Perhaps the amount of enemies that could be trapped would be based on power str like Vauban. I'm all for a Toggle off the ability to still keep the ragdoll effect in which enemies who have not been diminished before the tornado ends get thrown away.

The only issue I have with that is the idea of having Tornados become an efficiency ability which would likely happen in my opinion should a toggle arrive.

[SpinnningSideKick]

On 22/04/2016 at 1:26 PM, Catoriii said:

If you don't like her signature skill, why do you enjoy her? Potato or not doesn't matter - the playstyle really doesn't change for zephyr just because you have more points, unlike some frames that need heavy modding in order to fully test out their mechanics. Without Tailwind, you have...Turbulence. That's it. She's tanky and pretty much invincible against lower level corpus and grineer assuming you don't run out of energy, but Tailwind makes the frame what she is, and if all you're looking for is tanky, there are far better frames that actually have use for the party. And I read just fine, thanks - just because you don't like the ability doesn't mean it's bad or that it needs to be changed.

You keep talking about how fun she is but then keep mentioning that you're selling her, lol. If you don't like her enough to keep her and obviously don't know how her skills work, why bother making suggestions that would essentially neuter her current design that many people enjoy?

Why are you replying if you arent reading? Seriously? You ask a question I already answered. read the bold faced text again. If you are struggling with the meaning, I cant explain it any better than I already have, you clearly need help. Get someone to read it out loud to you. Maybe that might help. Good luck man.