Lumped Together Mosh-Pit of Ideas I've had for too Long

[Unus]

On 2019-09-22 at 10:31 AM, keikogi said:

I few extra comments on the warframe

You can afford to increase the armor bonus from her 2. Oberon gives 200 flat armor these days and it far from broken.

Maybe I did a poor job of selling my third skill suggestion, but the idea is awesome. Right now, it is really hard to design a static turret skill because it has to compete with Peaccemaker. So, I thought the easiest way to fix that is residing the skill is a vehicle. It is a good and traditional formula having 1 player as the driver and the other one as the gunner (both feel powerful and useful).

Warframe already has the pieces of the puzzle to implement a skill like this.

For the vehicle controls a adapted version of K-drive controls would suffice ( few changes , no need to charge the jump also add aim glide and guns )

We already can be gunners in grineer ramparts, but I hope we will get a improved version of this system.

For visual you could lift the basic structure of a Coilddrive ( the wheel ) and replace the block in the middle with one of these bad boys .

 

 

 

Pretty much that, I kind of like the aspect that he is only active now days because the orokin could be bothered to seal him (they just left him there) . As far as offering are concerned you will be able to but the weapon set (from this warframe) , the head crab raknoid (companion) , a new health restore ( as strong as the best one right now , but faster pulses) , Crab specter , barb wire ( vines you can deploy to slow enemy, maximum number of vines active is capped per player ) and a few plants as decoration.

/////////////////////////////////////////////////

@(XB1)Fluffywolf36 , I know warframe mechanic are unique sometimes. This can make adapting mechanics from other games way harder than ir sounds. Like for the exalted weapon of my frame I wanted it to feel like a slag gun ( borderlands 2 ) tag the enemy and switch out or melee. To implement so I simple think I had to change how exalted guns work ( as far as I can recall Ivara can't use melee while she has her Artemis bow equipped ) and give her both casting speed and holtering rate buff to smooth out the process.

Edit: ivara can use melee while she has artemis bow equipped now. It has been a while since I last used her.

 

   OH, really? Sure! Was trying to avoid potentially overpowered numbers when I cooked her up back in the day, but, if the ante has been upped, i'm more then happy to oblige. Is a good vacation from game-deving stress.

   Oh, I can see what you mean, the main idea I had was. . .well, desperately clawing for allegories on my end, I think the closest thing I can point to is the Shade turrets of the Haloverse, but, much thinner, more organic, floating on a swarm cloud, differing guns, etc etc.

 

13 hours ago, Ammisro said:

Hey, thank you for sharing. the concept looks awesome even if I don't know much about Warhammer... with sentient, who knows if DE team are actually observing these concept threads and they stealth taking it as inspiration, some frames are actually inspired by players concept you know. - I wish I could get to that point someday, too much real life work for me to make concept though..

The name change is because.. It's a long story, but in short I'd love to separate my Warframe identity with other things.

  Well, shoot, thank you mam. Didn't have to go scrawling through that wall!

Also, yeah, my only "hmmmmm" moment has been my ancient Zor design, which somehow coincided in several aspects with the Zar in both name and attributes for some reason. Must have hit the team on a good day.

   Ah, trying not to get found by some weirdos who might be snooping from other places eh? I can understand the desire to "throw off the scent" as it were.


Oh, and finally, went through and did some vote counting to update the front page as a break from the harshness of focus tree crafting, think we may make it, maybe. Hopefully. . .urk, I wanna get back to my beam and brain guns.

(Apologies if it seems like i'm trying to "pad out" Pit entry writing or some such bullshet. Seems that, in the time of my ""Hammer Hiatus"", all the interesting people and design hungry viewers (sometimes even overlapping)have come crawling out of the proverbial woodwork. What timing!)

Edited September 25, 2019 by Unus

[keikogi]

7 hours ago, Unus said:

OH, really? Sure! Was trying to avoid potentially overpowered numbers when I cooked her up back in the day, but, if the ante has been upped, i'm more then happy to oblige. Is a good vacation from game-deving stress.

Warframe had a slow power creep over the years , just wisp motes are better at buffing than some kits back them (for example:just speed mote buffs fire rate ; attack speed ; move speed / volt speed : just buffs move speed and reload speed.). Granted a few warframes never receive buffs and still relevant today ( ex: rhino). Also adaptation effects are way weaker than people give then think. Gauss can have up to 6 damage immunities( impact , slash , piercing , fire , cold and blast ) and he can easily die of a datron  crewman snezes at him , or he runs trough a toxic cloud or a nox snezes on him.

7 hours ago, Unus said:

Oh, I can see what you mean, the main idea I had was. . .well, desperately clawing for allegories on my end, I think the closest thing I can point to is the Shade turrets of the Haloverse, but, much thinner, more organic, floating on a swarm cloud, differing guns, etc etc.

I saw shade turret , and know what you are talking about.

Edited September 25, 2019 by keikogi

[(XBOX)Fluffywolf36]

7 hours ago, Unus said:

(Apologies if it seems like i'm trying to "pad out" Pit entry writing or some such bullshet. Seems that, in the time of my ""Hammer Hiatus"", all the interesting people and design hungry viewers (sometimes even overlapping)have come crawling out of the proverbial woodwork. What timing!)

Sometimes, all creativity needs is a little pacing.

[Unus]

Alright bruddas and sistahs, I gotta mighty neeeddddd to profreaaaddddd!

  Though, I still have Warhammer designs to work on in the form of the Twin Forgeworlds, I think I may actually be slowly gravitating back towards Warframe and my original productivity levels.

With any luck, my sun-gun will be completed in the next few days!

 

[Unus]

GOOD LORD! My work on my Adeptus Mechancus document has really been taking wind out of my Warframe sails!

In all honesty, I think, as much as it likely feels stereotypical, that I can attribute my lack of updateing to the lack of major Warframe updates.

I absolutely, honestly, and fervently HATE tossing around teh term "Content Drought" casually, but, at this point, Warframe the game isn't motivating me to complete my work as much as its more rapid updates did.

I WANT to finish my sun gun, but, Warhammer keeps catching my eye at the moment. I KNOW that, as soon as the next big one pops up, i'll simply EXPLODE with the glory you folks are so very used to, but, right now. . . .its frustrating, because I don't want the old girl being tossed away under the assumption that I've stopped liking Warframe and abandoned her to the junk data graveyard.

[keikogi]

35 minutes ago, Unus said:

GOOD LORD! My work on my Adeptus Mechancus document has really been taking wind out of my Warframe sails!

Omnissiah approves

36 minutes ago, Unus said:

In all honesty, I think, as much as it likely feels stereotypical, that I can attribute my lack of updateing to the lack of major Warframe updates.

I absolutely, honestly, and fervently HATE tossing around teh term "Content Drought" casually, but, at this point, Warframe the game isn't motivating me to complete my work as much as its more rapid updates did.

I WANT to finish my sun gun, but, Warhammer keeps catching my eye at the moment. I KNOW that, as soon as the next big one pops up, i'll simply EXPLODE with the glory you folks are so very used to, but, right now. . . .its frustrating, because I don't want the old girl being tossed away under the assumption that I've stopped liking Warframe and abandoned her to the junk data graveyard.

Everybody has been wating for the new game mode ( liches and space pirates ) , don't blame yourself for waiting as well.

[(XBOX)Fluffywolf36]

2 hours ago, Unus said:

I don't want the old girl being tossed away under the assumption that I've stopped liking Warframe and abandoned her to the junk data graveyard.

Hey, these things happen. Don't even trip, dawg. I've been playing both Borderlands and GEARS 5 way more than Warframe, but I come back to Warframe now and then for funsies. Sometimes I just... like doing something different is all.

I think we should all be willing to take time off to shake things up. Warframe does not have "nothing to do." It has truly staggering amounts of things to do! But...

Well, let me tell you a story. It was around the time some youtuber was talking about how they were quitting and all. And, like, I was all "Whatever" and I was off Kuva farming as Frost Prime. And I was having a good time. Like, a really good time. I flowed like water. I remember soaring up near a ledge on that one tile that's alongside a wall, poking out, and gunning down a bunch of Grineer in one fluid motion. And I realized at that moment: Damn, I love the combat in this game. 

And the thought of forgetting that was... sickening. Horrifying. Saddening.

Aaaaaaanyway, that's why it's important to take breaks. Especially because Spacelords scratches many of those same issues when I'm just not in a Warframe mood.

It's also funny cause Spacelords was a really good influence on my own respective thread.

[Unus]

Well. . . shet, right when I was getting back in the mood to start gunning our pieces, . . . boom. . .data lost.

 

Well. . . take. . . 5-6 I suppose?

[(XBOX)Fluffywolf36]

On 2019-10-14 at 6:37 PM, Unus said:

Well. . . take. . . 5-6 I suppose?

I'm begging you, please keep these backed up. This happens spookily often to you.

[HugintheCrow]

On 2019-10-15 at 12:37 AM, Unus said:

Well. . . shet, right when I was getting back in the mood to start gunning our pieces, . . . boom. . .data lost.

 

Well. . . take. . . 5-6 I suppose?

3 hours ago, (XB1)Fluffywolf36 said:

I'm begging you, please keep these backed up. This happens spookily often to you.

I think I suggested it before, but: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/typio-form-recovery/djkbihbnjhkjahbhjaadbepppbpoedaa?hl=en

Great and easy to use tool to have LITERALLY everything you type in a browser saved, even if you lose connection (or close the browser by a mistake).

[Unus]

13 hours ago, (XB1)Fluffywolf36 said:

I'm begging you, please keep these backed up. This happens spookily often to you.

  I know, right? This time, it was a Goddem tree landing on a power box! Gotta love it. To think I started doing this with warhammer work before I did it for Warframe.

10 hours ago, HugintheCrow said:

I think I suggested it before, but: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/typio-form-recovery/djkbihbnjhkjahbhjaadbepppbpoedaa?hl=en

Great and easy to use tool to have LITERALLY everything you type in a browser saved, even if you lose connection (or close the browser by a mistake).

  A double recommendation is certainly worth an attempt. Only thing I've ever disliked about it is that it means I can't work on designs until I get to my computer. I like to immediately jump on work I can immediately ship out as soon as it's ready.

 

Given how long the losses have been, well getting lost, this may be the time to make the grand switch, trade one set of pros and cons with another.

[(XBOX)Fluffywolf36]

@Unus if you need gun references or ideas, you know you can always drop me a line.

[Unus]

   Well blow me down and call me old news!

 

1. Those Kuva Lich fellas remind me of my Headhunters to no end! Certainly something they came up with on their own (meant sincerely), given how well-developed they are mechanically, but, I still like the fun idea that I was an early pioneer and Digital found the trail on their own and found it interesting!

 

2. Holy shet! One of my most recent ideas matches BRILLIANTLY with what they converted charged melee into! I may very well have to start on the Swordflesh Blade immediately, as opposed to puttering about half heartedly with my sun-gun.

Edited October 22, 2019 by Unus

[Unus]

                                                                                                    Post 679

 

(Conceived circa 10/14/2019 at 15:51, completed circa 10/27/2019 at 21:31.)

FINALLY, FECKIN ELL, THAT took long enough to try to right the chaos I got stuck with that threw me off for the longest I think i've ever been.

Designation: Lakynigos

Weapon Designation: Sword

 

Manufacturer: Vazirin-Aligned Tenno Labs, Systemwide.

Statistical Breakdown:

Damage= 35 Slash, 10 Pierce, 5 Impact.

Slide Attack= 79.

Attack Speed= 1.40.

Critical Chance= 28%

Critical Damage= 2.0X

"P.R.O.C." Chance= 10%.

Mastery Rank Requisite= 0. 

Polarity= None.

Stance= Unairu

Riven Disposition= ?????

Special Trait(s):

A Predator in Steel Cladding

A Simaris-esque overlay activates when a foe is suspended by a ground slam.

The Overlay will highlight the head, the chest, the arms, and the legs, corresponding to each enemy type’s bodily equivalents properly.

If an attack strikes the head, then apply a -5% accuracy penalty to target (stacking to 25%).
If an attack strikes the arm, then apply a -5% fire-rate/swing speed penalty to that target (stacking up to 25%)
If an attack strikes the body, then apply a 5% armor penalty to the target (stacking to 15%)
If an attack strikes the legs, then apply a -5% movement speed penalty to the target (stacking to 25%)

The penalties last for three minutes before they must be ""refreshed"".

Appearance:
  Taking several dozen pages from the Tenno themselves, the Lakynigos blurs the line between the organic and the metallic, arriving at a carapace-like semi-reflective sheen. The non-cutting side is a dark olivine green, smooth and fully showing the red mottled patterning on it, arrayed in a manner somewhere between painted lines, painted on wires, or painted on “veins”. The bladeside, meanwhile, is a very dark verdigris in coloration, the blade reflecting little beyond a greasy smattering of light off it’s surface. Occasionally, tiny crystalline outgrowths branch out from the blade slightly, growing in the manner of a snowflake forming before subsuming back into the blade itself in an uncannily organic manner, like the eyes of a snail reverse-crystallizing back into its metallic head. The blade curves ever so slightly, ending in a thickened tip almost reminiscent of a canine tooth and fully capable of punching through thick armor plating to get to the soft vitals below. 

   As the weapon is swung, the blade changes shape so that a fractally- serrated edge forms at the point where the blade will contact the flesh or metal of the target. When a ground-slam is made with the blade, it emits a predatory semi-feline growl that seems to echo from within the suit’s head itself, barely perceptible unless all is quiet. After that, a pseudo-organic overlay will highlight the most vulnerable parts of the suspended target in pulseateing blood red (energy colored) blotches for suitable targeted dismantling  The grip is simply the point where the blade side dulls down till the metal can be held in the hand without wounding oneself and the softer portion takes on a suitably graspable shape. No matter the wielding frame’s hand proportions, there is always just enough space for the suit to grip it comfortably, each blade instinctively knowing what it’s “twin” requires to hold it.    

"Basic" Description:

  With the changing of the times, comes a change in the weapons of the warriors who must fight in them. With the production of swordflesh weapons on the rise and the recent combination of combat technique revisions and new discoveries in bringing out a Warframe suit’s inner potential, those Tenno bound to the Vazirin school have continued with their doctrine of hyper-awareness and adaptation by pioneering a new weapon to exploit new discoveries. Dubbed the Lakynigos, this form of blade is grown as much as forged from the material left behind by a recently gestated Warframe. Unlike many swordflesh weapons however, the Lakynigos is allowed to grow further then just baseline nanite-enriched tissue, developing the rudiments of a nervous system, a digestive tract, and a sensory system. Through this much more concrete connection to the outside world (in addition to its genetic link to the suit it is usually being given to via sharing the same “birth culture”), the blade is trained in much the same way as a domestic animal meant for combat, it’s senses attuned to the tumult of combat to avoid panic, to “attack” properly when struck against the right material, to know friend from foe. At the same time, the receiving tenno must learn how to properly use the blade, to hear it’s predatory whisper in the corners of the mind that show the weakest points on a foe, to let the blade linger in the foe just long enough so that it’s crystalline manipulators may push deep into the foe and tear at a weakness on a microscopic scale. When both wielder and weapon are in synch, even the most hulking and brutish of foes can be laid low, the most minute of weaknesses sniffed out and exploited like a primeval carnivore going for the kill against a dangerous example of megafauna.         
 

Edited November 1, 2019 by Unus

[Unus]

  Just dropping in to to wish folks a happy haunted holidays afore I jump back on the writing board!

(And, no Mr. Fluffy, I haven't forgotten about you, I just need the data on your piece to soak into me so I can give you a proper "meat filled" response rather then then the soul-scarring "Dats so coooooooo!/ Meh" that people like to do.)

[(XBOX)Fluffywolf36]

3 hours ago, Unus said:

  Just dropping in to to wish folks a happy haunted holidays afore I jump back on the writing board!

 

Thanks, dood! 

3 hours ago, Unus said:

so I can give you a proper "meat filled" response rather then then the soul-scarring "Dats so coooooooo!/ Meh" that people like to do

In that case, I think I owe you this. Excuse me for one moment.

[(XBOX)Fluffywolf36]

 

On 2019-10-27 at 9:51 PM, Unus said:

Critical Chance= 28%

 

...28% Crit chance sword? Go on...

 

On 2019-10-27 at 9:51 PM, Unus said:

A Simaris-esque overlay activates when a foe is suspended by a ground slam.

 

...With a slamming gimmick! Okay, I'm interested. I actually had a relatively similar sword gimmick idea in mind once, but that's not important right now. 

The thing that bothers me about melee in Warframe is how it's so fire-and-forget. With... pretty much every melee weapon I own that isn't the Arca Titron or Tatsu, I usually just mash B without thinking too hard about it. Thankfully, my favorite few melee weapons that aren't those two  (Nikana Prime, my Zaw Nikana, Galatine Prime, my Kripath crit rapier, Broken War, Atterax, Jat Kittag. Yes, I have sort of a sword thing going on) are fun enough that it doesn't matter to me overmuch. Nikanas are fast, Galatine Prime is.... Galatine Prime, my Kripath has incredible stats, a great stance, and inherent viral, the Broken War has great damage, but overall I don't put even a tenth of the thought into combat with them that I give to guns.

So I like seeing you trying to shake up our melee loop.

...Is melee loop, like, a thing? Cause, like, we have a gameplay loop, and I have repeated patterns involving how I use melee...

On 2019-10-27 at 9:51 PM, Unus said:

  Taking several dozen pages from the Tenno themselves, the Lakynigos blurs the line between the organic and the metallic, arriving at a carapace-like semi-reflective sheen. The non-cutting side is a dark olivine green, smooth and fully showing the red mottled patterning on it, arrayed in a manner somewhere between painted lines, painted on wires, or painted on “veins”. The bladeside, meanwhile, is a very dark verdigris in coloration, the blade reflecting little beyond a greasy smattering of light off it’s surface. Occasionally, tiny crystalline outgrowths branch out from the blade slightly, growing in the manner of a snowflake forming before subsuming back into the blade itself in an uncannily organic manner, like the eyes of a snail reverse-crystallizing back into its metallic head. The blade curves ever so slightly, ending in a thickened tip almost reminiscent of a canine tooth and fully capable of punching through thick armor plating to get to the soft vitals below. 

 

This could be fun to draw. Is the sword curved or straight?

 

On 2019-10-27 at 9:51 PM, Unus said:

developing the rudiments of a nervous system, a digestive tract, and a sensory system.

This takes me back to the time one Destiny gun in d1 allegedly did that.

We never saw it and it was just cool fluff, but I have a better feeling about its appearance here.

[Unus]

On 2019-10-31 at 4:01 PM, (XB1)Fluffywolf36 said:

 

...28% Crit chance sword? Go on...

 

...With a slamming gimmick! Okay, I'm interested. I actually had a relatively similar sword gimmick idea in mind once, but that's not important right now. 

The thing that bothers me about melee in Warframe is how it's so fire-and-forget. With... pretty much every melee weapon I own that isn't the Arca Titron or Tatsu, I usually just mash B without thinking too hard about it. Thankfully, my favorite few melee weapons that aren't those two  (Nikana Prime, my Zaw Nikana, Galatine Prime, my Kripath crit rapier, Broken War, Atterax, Jat Kittag. Yes, I have sort of a sword thing going on) are fun enough that it doesn't matter to me overmuch. Nikanas are fast, Galatine Prime is.... Galatine Prime, my Kripath has incredible stats, a great stance, and inherent viral, the Broken War has great damage, but overall I don't put even a tenth of the thought into combat with them that I give to guns.

So I like seeing you trying to shake up our melee loop.

...Is melee loop, like, a thing? Cause, like, we have a gameplay loop, and I have repeated patterns involving how I use melee...

This could be fun to draw. Is the sword curved or straight?

 

This takes me back to the time one Destiny gun in d1 allegedly did that.

We never saw it and it was just cool fluff, but I have a better feeling about its appearance here.

 (Emerges from the undersea daemonic forge temporarily, gasping for air.)

 

Figured a predatory blade with an amorphous blade shell would know just where to cut and just what shape to take to make said cuts.

 

  After the latest dev-stream where they showed us what channeling is going to become, I just HAD to "exploit" it somehow, and this living blast turned out to be my answer.

  The fact that it also helps craft a legitimate "melee loop" where one actually thinks of where to swing happened to be delicious icing on a tasty looking pound cake.

 

  The best way I could describe it is that it curves a bit like a smildon's canine teeth, only the curve starts to disappear as you go down the swords body till there is no actual blade anymore, just a spot that's smooth and safe to grip on both sides. Single-sided and choppy, but, also capable of nasty predatory penetration.

 

  Really? What weapon was that?

 

I've just found the possibilities of sword-flesh weaponry to be so interesting in recent times. I'm not sure why. Sure, the weapon that our Digital gals liked was one of my first, but, that Conatus was made before we even knew what Warframe outer-tissue was called.

 

Hm. . . could just be because it fits so well with Warframe's "natural machine" aesthetic, where tech and living things blend so seamlessly to look like one another that, at times, it's hard to tell where one bit ends and another begins.

 

[(XBOX)Fluffywolf36]

1 hour ago, Unus said:

  Really? What weapon was that?

 

This never came up in-game though.

1 hour ago, Unus said:

Hm. . . could just be because it fits so well with Warframe's "natural machine" aesthetic, where tech and living things blend so seamlessly to look like one another that, at times, it's hard to tell where one bit ends and another begins.

 

That makes sense.

[Unus]

  My sincere apologies for the fantastically long delay in production folks, but, one of my Warhammer projects has bloated to a truly abhorrent size, thus taking up an abhorrent amount of time.

Rest assured, I still have ideas and I still plan on implementing them, i'm just occupied in an extremely big project in a trap of my own making at the mo.

 

[Unus]

  You know, instead of wallowing in isolation as I rip every brain-cell out of my skull and run it through a writing juice press to get every ounce of creative/constructive power out of me, maybe I should actually post the thing that i'm working on.

The fact I already did it before with my Tau Doc when someone asked appears to have. . . not registered with me for some unfathomable reason.

Here lies the Dark Mechanicum Codex i'm scrabbling to complete, before I return to Warframe and smith my Gamma Guns into "in-gameable status".
https://docs.google.com/document/d/19qYaIBs3GHcDzK3H3_028lH6D8XkHhoO8Z3AQRRD2_k/edit?usp=sharing
 
As you can see, its a. . .bit of a very heavy nut for me to crack, lightly season, measure for impurities, swallow, and then pass.

[Unus]

  Taking a moment to wish you all a happy Thanksgiving, whether you celebrate or not!

 

  As always, I'm thankful to the team of creators of Warframe, the folks who encouraged me to share my ideas on here, and, of course, the network of forum inhabitants who have enriched my work and who's work I have enriched in turn, if only by being a mouthy critic popping in every so often to drop opinion bombs.

 

   Developmentwise, things have slowly started to stabilize between my Warframe work and my Warhammer work. Each one has slowed down, but, then, each one has made actual progress, as opposed to one being neglected for the other.

 

May this new process allow me to publish me work shortly, and may your days be filled with things that you yourselves can be greatful for!

[Unus]

   Alright folks, after a recent revelation of astounding clarity of "Maybe I shouldn't reach for things that exist just beyond my grasp." involving my flimsy Warhammer forays, I am now rededicateing myself back to my home here in the Pit.

 

   The main component of my own revelation here is that, compared to my lovely old Pit, there isn't a way for me to grow my work naturally and unobtrusively without "spam reposting" it across several Discords in an unstable and audience-exhausting way, no forum I can go to and maintain a "fortress of word salad" alike to my old mohole in the ground here.

 

  It saddens me that this is the way the dominos drop, but, I suppose it's a necessary learning experience even a half-decade into design online. "Don't go running after every bolt of lightening with an empty bottle thinking it's an opportunity." and all that.

 

  Anyway, here's hopeing I can reaccelerate production accordingly before the 5th, as, at that point, thanks to an upcoming case of "optical muscle realignment surgery", I might be down and out anywhere from 3-6 days semi-"blind" in recovery.

 

  Wish me luck!

Edited December 1, 2019 by Unus

[(XBOX)Fluffywolf36]

6 hours ago, Unus said:

   Alright folks, after a recent revelation of astounding clarity of "Maybe I shouldn't reach for things that exist just beyond my grasp." involving my flimsy Warhammer forays, I am now rededicateing myself back to my home here in the Pit.

 

I missed you, dood.

Need me to make anymore art? I can surprise you with it when your vision comes back! 😛

[Unus]

   Heya folks. Just wanna let you in on some upcoming events.

 

Specifically, tomorrow, at 6:00 in the morning, I will be undergoing optical realignment surgery that will cost me my proper eyesight for 3-7 days.

 

That means you might not be hearing from me for a little while, not even on Discord, which frustrates me to no end, especially given how my fears of this event have hampered both my production AND my interaction with all of you for the past few weeks.

 

  With any luck, I hope to see you all again very very soon, and properly at that!