Channeling skills not able to get energy needs to go.

[tripletriple]

The inconsistencies between channeled skills and non channeled skills needs to go.

Why can I not use energy vampire while channelling but Ash in blade storm can? We have a skill that doesn't work half the time because it would be too strong but why isn't her energy vampire just nerfed when you are channeling? So instead of 250 energy you get 25. DE is just deploying a lazy fix by not making it work.

Why does my zenurik not work on a large group of warframes? What about energy siphon?  

The description should have a disclaimer. Because it doesn't work with half the skills in the game!

On top of all that you can be drained by leech eximus while channelling now. I can't activate channeled skills in sortie because the drain becomes insane.

DE cut out the lazy and blatantly terrible work around and give channeled skills the same advantages and disadvantages of non channeled skills. Or atleast close the gap.

Edited April 15, 2016 by tripletriple

[Brachion]

The short answer is that people would abuse the hell out of channeling skills if they could get energy while using them. Remember the days of infinite AFK Peacemaker? It'd be like that, but even more so.

[Insizer]

• Receiving any amount of energy except from energy orbs would make channeled abilities BS. It's good the way it is.
• Energy Vampire needs to be nerfed to begin with.
• Bladestorm isn't channeled, that why.
• Zenurik's passive energy regen is BS enough, it doesn't need to get more powerful. Imagine if you had multiple Zenurik users in a party, imagine the level of BS you'd see. And before you ask or insinuate, I am a Zenurik user.
• As for leeching while burning energy... I don't see how channeling abilities would protect you from an aura. Perhaps make it so that you are at least losing the amount you'd lose from the aura. If your channeling would burn more energy, then that becomes your drain.

[KYVampire]

I'm a little confused. At first I thought you were talking about melee channeling. But it seems you're referring to toggled abilities instead. Is that correct? 

The reason why we cannot gain energy when toggled abilities are toggled on is for balance (note: blade storm is NOT a toggled ability. If it was we'd have AFK bladestorm ash players all over the place). Toggled abilities are generally powerful abilities. The drawback to using them is the need for energy management.  

Oh and about leech and energy drain eximus units, They always have been able to drain your energy while toggled abilities are on. Its just that in Eximus Stronghold sorties that they come out more often. Might not be a bad thing since sorties are supposed to push the player to the best of their ability. Try not to rely on toggled abilities completely. 

[direcyphre]

Blade storm is a cast ability, not a toggled one. Energy gain was changed for all toggled abilities (Peacemaker, World on Fire, etc) to prevent infinitely using any of them.

[Kai_Shiba]

It has always been like that, and it should stay that way.

It really isn't new

6 minutes ago, Brachion said:

The short answer is that people would abuse the hell out of channeling skills if they could get energy while using them. Remember the days of infinite AFK Peacemaker? It'd be like that, but even more so.

Yup, pretty much.

[tripletriple]

For the record I know blade storm is not a toggle but it is as powerful as one. So the balance argument is out the window. 

Second if an ability like old peace maker is too powerful that you click one button and wipe the map it needs to be nerfed.

Having a blatantly broken system in place is not a good move on DE'S part.

Some toggles are not very good to begin with and the best ones can be left on all mission. There is no excuse.

Edited April 15, 2016 by tripletriple

[Jaysus41]

2 minutes ago, KJRenz said:

It has always been like that.

Actually it hasn't always been this way. It got changed when people realized they could lock down an entire Interception mission using Banshee's Sound Quake while popping energy plates... Which you can still do, kinda, but nobody uses Banshee so whatever.

[Egg_Chen]

I can run for 50-60 minutes with World on Fire active permanently easily, just using dropped energy orbs. So that is without using energy syphon, overflow, pizzas, or even using a weapon with an energy restore syndicate proc. That is running WoF with minimum energy drain per second.

If I could regain energy from Zenurik? Well I can swap some of those efficiency or duration mods for more power couldn't I. Why would I need to mod to bring the energy costs down when I'm generating 4 energy a second? Same goes for every other skill affected, you no longer need to consider efficiency or duration, and just slap on more and more power / range, etc.

That is why.

Also, yes, welcome to AFKframe if this ever happened.

[Roboplus]

25 minutes ago, tripletriple said:

For the record I know blade storm is not a toggle but it is as powerful as one. So the balance argument is out the window. 

DE have openly stated they do not like where Bladestorm is right now and want to do something to it. They just don't know what. Whatever it is will likely require new code.

So yeah. Balance is the concern.

[Insizer]

23 minutes ago, tripletriple said:

For the record I know blade storm is not a toggle but it is as powerful as one. So the balance argument is out the window. 

Second if an ability like old peace maker is too powerful that you click one button and wipe the map it needs to be nerfed.

Having a blatantly broken system in place is not a good move on DE'S part.

Some toggles are not very good to begin with and the best ones can be left on all mission. There is no excuse.

But it isn't a blatantly broken system. It is there to prevent blatant BS from occurring. Imagine a WoF that you actually could keep on forever while being able to regen energy to use Ember's other abilities... There is no excuse for allowing regen while using a toggle ability. You pull up Bladestorm, fine maybe that should prevent regen too, but its existance doesn't throw a very good argument out the window.

[Magnulast]

47 minutes ago, Insizer said:

• Receiving any amount of energy except from energy orbs would make channeled abilities BS. It's good the way it is.
• Energy Vampire needs to be nerfed to begin with.
• Bladestorm isn't channeled, that why.
• Zenurik's passive energy regen is BS enough, it doesn't need to get more powerful. Imagine if you had multiple Zenurik users in a party, imagine the level of BS you'd see. And before you ask or insinuate, I am a Zenurik user.
• As for leeching while burning energy... I don't see how channeling abilities would protect you from an aura. Perhaps make it so that you are at least losing the amount you'd lose from the aura. If your channeling would burn more energy, then that becomes your drain.

I'm not sure about the nerf to energy vampire.......but if you are refering to a change, like saryn's neg duration->pos duration...I kinda get the point.

The rest I agree with you.

[Xekrin]

1 hour ago, tripletriple said:

DE cut out the lazy and blatantly terrible work

This ^ is not the way to encourage anyone to do anything, nor is it very useful feedback.  Insults and outright devbashing does the complete opposite of what you are trying to do.

[tripletriple]

4 minutes ago, Xekrin said:

This ^ is not the way to encourage anyone to do anything, nor is it very useful feedback.  Insults and outright devbashing does the complete opposite of what you are trying to do.

Excuse me? Lets not stoop to calling a constructive argument dev bashing. I called an aspect of their work terrible, no where was that out right dev bashing. Ignorant comments like this get you no where. 

 

 

Moving on, I did propose a nerfed regen for channeled abilities. Zenurik at max could be 0.5 per second. 

Edited April 15, 2016 by tripletriple

[FoxyKabam]

1 hour ago, tripletriple said:

Excuse me? Lets not stoop to calling a constructive argument dev bashing. I called an aspect of their work terrible, no where was that out right dev bashing. Ignorant comments like this get you no where.

I dunno, gotten warning points for much less

on topic: while I don't agree with you as far as channeling skills go, the whole energy system as a whole could use a good hard look

[ArcusVeles]

2 hours ago, KJRenz said:

It has always been like that, and it should stay that way.

It really isn't new

Yup, pretty much.

It actually hasn't always been that way.  I still remember being able to channel Sound Quake and still get energy from Trinity way back in the day.  I'm pretty sure it was one of the many changes they made trying to fight the Viver/Draco/etc. farming groups before they finally threw up their hands and gave up.

Just because an ability is toggled doesn't mean it's any more or less problematic than the others and needs special restrictions.  if the problem is AFKing, disable energy gain if you stand still too long instead of when channeling an ability (oh wait, we already have that change, lmao).  Like seriously, there could be other solutions to the perceived threat of toggled abilities, if they're really such a problem.  I really don't believe they are though.

[tripletriple]

1 hour ago, ArcusVeles said:

It actually hasn't always been that way.  I still remember being able to channel Sound Quake and still get energy from Trinity way back in the day.  I'm pretty sure it was one of the many changes they made trying to fight the Viver/Draco/etc. farming groups before they finally threw up their hands and gave up.

Just because an ability is toggled doesn't mean it's any more or less problematic than the others and needs special restrictions.  if the problem is AFKing, disable energy gain if you stand still too long instead of when channeling an ability (oh wait, we already have that change, lmao).  Like seriously, there could be other solutions to the perceived threat of toggled abilities, if they're really such a problem.  I really don't believe they are though.

Yep, thanks for that little history lesson. That's is why I called it a lazy fix. It is one. If an ability is inherently problematic it should be toned down, a whole slew of warframes shouldn't be punished for it. 

Energy vampire and the rest can simply give less energy when an ability is toggled.

Edited April 16, 2016 by tripletriple