Rathuum Feedback: Fun but Deeply Flawed Game Mode

[-CM-Grendil]

Just now, TheJagji said:

It makes sence that they would be on the same level as Warframes (I mean, we can one hit them, so it only seems fair, especially when its basically PvE conclave) so is really about watching out for them, and anticipating them. e.g. get gud.

So, it's totally okay, refreshing, and "fun" in your eyes that we:

1) Get our powers essentially taken away, due to the pacing of the arena battles on T3 and above, not to mention the sometimes random enemy that will hit you with energy drain. I'd LOVE to see you sit still for the amount of time it takes to regen energy from ZERO at the start of an arena while some enemy AI spams you with a flak cannon which is so strong, that a triple-ricochet from a single piece of shrapnel at max range will 1-shot you

2) Have enemy AI with so much offensive power that over half the Warframe roster is rendered useless.

3) Reduced to only a very small portion of the variety of skills, powers, and weaponry, thanks to T3+'s ridiculously high defensive stats that cause the majority of our weapons to fall off sharply in the damage curve.

If that to you is "fun", then by all means, go have you some fun. But to me, at least, this event just gets un-fun after only "running-and-gunning" and not using my powers and the strategies that come with said powers.

[-CM-Grendil]

16 minutes ago, Stouty22 said:

Firstly. You could use some fries with that salt. Second I asked about the endless one lol. I know the boss takes points away already.

My bad, I was thinking the boss fight, not endless. Endless has mad potential, but too restrictive for my taste atm (build/frame/weapon req for extensive runs of endless).

And yes, my salt could end world hunger. :p

That being said, however, the end boss fight was GREAT! I ate dirt for most of the fight, but I got into a rhythm thats hard to explain, and it felt very dynamic and fluid after that.

21 minutes ago, TheJagji said:

The event goes for 9 days, so the system is not that undesirable. It means you don't need to fast grind all the time, witch is the STUPID way to play games. I don't get why people can't just play the game, and get over this silly crap. DE is trying to make something that lasts over a week, but people only went to complain about how hard or grinds it is. If you want grind, go play Black Desert. THAT is grind.

You assume that I only grind, that I don't take in the elements of the game and enjoy them. If all I did was grind then I would be in another game already. The point of my replies was that the event was fun at first, but due to a few issues, became not fun after a few runs through it. The reply you quote was just a cheeky twist on what myself and a few of my friends observed. Hey, if you only wish to see criticism as QQ, then be my guest. But don't you dare sit there and try to run me off the forums/from the game just because your elitist mentality of "gitgudnub" interferes with your ability to see things from a fundamental point of view. Everyone here has a point of view. Respect mine, as I respect yours.

[AdunSaveMe]

5 hours ago, Stouty22 said:

It takes all of 10 seconds for them to spawn... I don't understand at all why anyone is having trouble with this event... unless you stand still.  loki or valk makes this sooooo easy. Inaros is pretty well off too.

Do you not see the issue with this comment? "These few frames make it dead-easy garbage" also means "every other frame isn't worth using because they either die instantly or can't do anything". You're essentially pointing out the fact that the only slightly reasonable way to do it is to cheese it.

[Stouty22]

7 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

Do you not see the issue with this comment? "These few frames make it dead-easy garbage" also means "every other frame isn't worth using because they either die instantly or can't do anything". You're essentially pointing out the fact that the only slightly reasonable way to do it is to cheese it.

You people keep refering to using certain abilties as cheesing it. Remind me again why using abilites like invisibility is a bad thing? I am mearly using the "tools" for the job. Its no different then bringing the right tools to a plumbing job for example. There is no reason to handycap myself if I do not wish to. If I wanted a challenge I would just pick a differnt frame but for now I am in the event for the rewards not a personal ego trip.

[AdunSaveMe]

5 minutes ago, Stouty22 said:

You people keep refering to using certain abilties as cheesing it. Remind me again why using abilites like invisibility is a bad thing? I am mearly using the "tools" for the job. Its no different then bringing the right tools to a plumbing job for example. There is no reason to handycap myself if I do not wish to. If I wanted a challenge I would just pick a differnt frame but for now I am in the event for the rewards not a personal ego trip.

Because it makes it dead easy. That's exactly what cheesing is. You're bypassing mechanics and gameplay. So you can either stay invisible so you never get hit, which is cheesing, or you can not, and get instakilled constantly by drakgoon shots from across the map.

It is completely different to bringing the right tools for a plumbing job. With plumbing, you have different tools for every job, like a pipe reamer or a wrench or a plunger. Each of them has a use, they are all equal in their usefulness, and there is no one tool that makes the other tools pointless and the job simpler all in one go. In Warframe, the tools are not equal, and in events like this you either struggle against poor design, or you take one of the few tools that make the job completely and utterly arbitrary.

That's what cheesing is. Having the option to invalidate the game is not a good thing. It means you have less options, you have less fun, and you either get shoehorned into doing the generic cheese tactic of "lock down the enemy so nobody can get hurt", or you struggle against instakills, bullet sponges and overall poor design.

[Cortanis]

See all the complaints about op enemies here.

On another note, I'm seeing some rather... interesting ai out of them as well. Decided to bring Frost in and try a snipe run. Guns were Lex Prime and Vectis Prime. The units seemingly can't handle elevation at all. I grabbed a high ledge and bubbled up. I was expecting them to tear through me like paper in a bout a second given that I was about as exposed as possible, but they apparently can't handle elevation at all in targeting. I sat though the match one offing most of them with Lex.

[AdunSaveMe]

4 hours ago, Stouty22 said:

Serious question. Why do people complain about grind in a RNG based game? It should be expected.

This is like asking why people complain about drowning on a water-covered planet. There is a limit to how much is acceptable.

[Zalgo]

Most of Inaros's powers don't seem to work on them.

[Stouty22]

 

24 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

Because it makes it dead easy. That's exactly what cheesing is. You're bypassing mechanics and gameplay. So you can either stay invisible so you never get hit, which is cheesing, or you can not, and get instakilled constantly by drakgoon shots from across the map.

It is completely different to bringing the right tools for a plumbing job. With plumbing, you have different tools for every job, like a pipe reamer or a wrench or a plunger. Each of them has a use, they are all equal in their usefulness, and there is no one tool that makes the other tools pointless and the job simpler all in one go. In Warframe, the tools are not equal, and in events like this you either struggle against poor design, or you take one of the few tools that make the job completely and utterly arbitrary.

That's what cheesing is. Having the option to invalidate the game is not a good thing. It means you have less options, you have less fun, and you either get shoehorned into doing the generic cheese tactic of "lock down the enemy so nobody can get hurt", or you struggle against instakills, bullet sponges and overall poor design.

I'm not sure what you are doing wrong but even tier 3 of this event wasn't giving me troubles with other frames(I gave it a shot with mag prime) You are using proper cover and OP guns right? Snipers work well in this situation(vectis preferably) Also the furis + winds of purity for that health regen goodness.

15 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

This is like asking why people complain about drowning on a water-covered planet. There is a limit to how much is acceptable.

I mean thats just like your opinion man...

In all seriousness I don't feel like this event is nearly as bad as the last one when it comes to grinding. So I call it acceptible for sure.

Edited April 30, 2016 by Stouty22
Crouching tiger hidden errors.

[RiouHotaru]

1 hour ago, Zalgo said:

Most of Inaros's powers don't seem to work on them.

I noticed this too.  Devour and Scarab Swarm didn't seem to work on them in the slightest.

What's more, Inaros' 4 does jack-all to mitigate any of the damage he gets hit with.

[BlackCoMerc]

11 hours ago, AdunSaveMe said:

No, they can't. That's why we keep getting it.

The executioner's design is beyond average to begin with. One of them is just a hyekka master, and her HITSCAN ignis instakills players, along with her random firebombs. One of them spawns drones, and these drones do an absolute crapload of damage in LESS than a second, feels like it's doing close to 800 damage right off the bat, in ONE TICK. One of them fires missiles, but I only know he fires missiles because the actual missile projectile effect gets stuck in midair for a second, before you suddenly die, assuming you haven't already been frozen to oblivion. One of them drops mag proc mines which you're going to be lucky to see before you walk near them, further proving the fact that the effect of magnetic procs is fundamentally stupid mechanic. And one is a ballista, which speaks for itself.

This event honestly feels like a flagship for DE's fleet of frustratingly bad design choices; it's full of instakills, bullet sponges, and overall, a complete cancellation of player skill. Just like every new enemy and almost every event that gets released nowadays, your skill is almost irrelevant, cheesing is practically encouraged, and all that matters is the numbers on your gun.

Completely agree.

Warframe has been a rash of bad design decisions for a year now. 

I have posted a new thread in general feedback for a major overhaul, it's gotten so bad. High level isn't played, it's watched from under a Cheese Umbrella.

[CrimsonDalekanium]

Problems I have with Normal Rathuum and Kela Fight:

The 5 rotation grind on round 3 for the boss fight.

Problems I have with Endless Rathuum:

Normal rathuum gives you enemies strong enough to OHK you, forcing you to either have a WF power up constantly OR parkour around the map. fine and dandy. However, endless mode takes place in what is essentially a dark hole, taking away your ability to parkour away from anything.

The freaking Deth Carabus. They are effectively silent, highly mobile, and can and will kill you if you do a hard landing or even open a door next to them. Don't get me wrong, I have no problems with a mobile difficult enemy, but this thing will kill you faster than the Executioners themselves.

One life is FINE, but let us revive each other for god's sakes, it is supposed to be a TEAM effort. Even a halved revive time unaffected by bleed-out mods would be acceptable.

Players must compete with each other for energy and ammo (health isn't important with the health drain) IN A TEAM MODE. Oh, you would like to have energy? AH HA sucks for you, because the wukong and valkyr got there first. Let the energy orbs only disappear for the person who picked it up, as is the case in PvE play.

The Executioners are completely immune to the secondary effects of Banish and Teleport. They are not stunned, knocked down, or even staggered, much less opened for a finisher animation. They simply turn and annihilate you. For somebody to run any frame but Wukong or Valkyr with any iota of success, arcane energize is nearly a necessity. Yes, you can run around as limbo in the rift, but this doesn't actually help your team in any meaningful way. If I had to guess, Equinox's rest and pacify probably don't do anything either. 

So sentinels, gear, and pets are declared contraband, but warframes and their absurdly strong guns are allowed? 

Frames without powers of invisibility or invulnerability (defy included) are basically #*($%%@, even tanks such as Inaros and Rhino. Inaros's entire health bar (and he has no shields) will be taken away very quickly, even if Inaros hasn't been hit a single time. Even ash and loki require a fairly large amount of energy to maintain cloak, which can happen via Zenurik, if they can limp along for the three minutes or so up to that point. Even while invisible, the attacks aimed at other players can wipe you off the map.

 

 

 

 

This might have just been me, but was anybody else under the impression that Rathuum would be an honest-to-goodness new game mode, with gladiator type battles against harder enemies as you won more battles for better rewards? 

Edited April 30, 2016 by CrimsonDalekanium

[Zoracraft]

39 minutes ago, CrimsonDalekanium said:

Problems I have with Normal Rathuum and Kela Fight:

The 5 rotation grind on round 3 for the boss fight.

Problems I have with Endless Rathuum:

Normal rathuum gives you enemies strong enough to OHK you, forcing you to either have a WF power up constantly OR parkour around the map. fine and dandy. However, endless mode takes place in what is essentially a dark hole, taking away your ability to parkour away from anything.

The freaking Deth Carabus. They are effectively silent, highly mobile, and can and will kill you if you do a hard landing or even open a door next to them. Don't get me wrong, I have no problems with a mobile difficult enemy, but this thing will kill you faster than the Executioners themselves.

One life is FINE, but let us revive each other for god's sakes, it is supposed to be a TEAM effort. Even a halved revive time unaffected by bleed-out mods would be acceptable.

Players must compete with each other for energy and ammo (health isn't important with the health drain) IN A TEAM MODE. Oh, you would like to have energy? AH HA sucks for you, because the wukong and valkyr got there first. Let the energy orbs only disappear for the person who picked it up, as is the case in PvE play.

The Executioners are completely immune to the secondary effects of Banish and Teleport. They are not stunned, knocked down, or even staggered, much less opened for a finisher animation. They simply turn and annihilate you. For somebody to run any frame but Wukong or Valkyr with any iota of success, arcane energize is nearly a necessity. Yes, you can run around as limbo in the rift, but this doesn't actually help your team in any meaningful way. If I had to guess, Equinox's rest and pacify probably don't do anything either. 

So sentinels, gear, and pets are declared contraband, but warframes and their absurdly strong guns are allowed? 

Frames without powers of invisibility or invulnerability (defy included) are basically #*($%%@, even tanks such as Inaros and Rhino. Inaros's entire health bar (and he has no shields) will be taken away very quickly, even if Inaros hasn't been hit a single time. Even ash and loki require a fairly large amount of energy to maintain cloak, which can happen via Zenurik, if they can limp along for the three minutes or so up to that point. Even while invisible, the attacks aimed at other players can wipe you off the map.

 

 

 

 

This might have just been me, but was anybody else under the impression that Rathuum would be an honest-to-goodness new game mode, with gladiator type battles against harder enemies as you won more battles for better rewards? 

Yeah, it's basically just a PvE rip of conclave right now. It even has the conclave symbol in the background at the end of mission screen.

 

This is the first event that I have hated in warframe. I hate pvp, so why the F*** would I play what is essentially pvp but without the sadistic satisfaction of hurting another person. For the weapon? I hate fist weapons anyways, and they are wraith, which makes them uncolorable, so they can't even go with most of the color choices in the game, save for the dark and edgy stalker colors. The mods? I've wanted them for a long time, but this event is so glaringly split from the rest of warframe that it is almost sickening to play.

 

Guess I'll just have to buy the stupid mods...

[dthorn92]

Yeah, can a dev PLEASE answer this: why the hell is round 3 giving single GARBAGE cores as a reward?!?! That is mind bitingly insulting. I've done at least 12 runs and have even gotten less cores than if I did Draco or T3-T4 defense runs. Atrocious. Now if I get acid shells I'll be stoked to try sobek but other than that I haven't and don't plan on using any of the weapons those mods you get from Kela de FU drops. Building twin basolk for rift strike but those twin hatchets are apparently 1,000,000 lbs because they swing slower than a sloth with a baseball bat