Kela De Thaym bossfight Feedback.

[Burnthesteak87]

> I'd say that the first version of this Bossfight was wonderul, Rollers attacking the player even on the upper floors was a really good feature, it had  counterplay, and was working really well as a disturbance for the player.
Rollers attacks were the only thing that gave balance to the fight, if managed in the correct manner they could be an hindrance, but still challenge the player. If players didn't try to manage and work accordingly to them, the situation could degenerate really quick.

After DE removed them from higher pillars, the fight has suddenly became boring, easy and a simple "targets shooting game" then "DPS run" fight.

> Orbital Nukes are easily countered by Limbo with no difficulty. They whatever pose no threat even without Cataclysm, dodging them is extremely easy.

> The Freezing Blasts from walls are useless. Nobody's gonna get caught by them.

> Kela De Thaim movements are really slow and missles she throws at you are easily avoidable. With no other treaths working together, her attacks pose no threat.
Maybe work on this. Dodging those missles would challenge the player into understanding where to land after the jump. There must be more dangerous areas around or on the lower level of the stage.

> I don't see any necessity for the higher pillars of the stage getting gradually removed during the fight. There's definetly no threat into falling down to the lower area of the stage. And no chance of getting hit easier by the Freezing Blasts.
Also with Tennos' godlike parkour there's no chance of falling down unless a player does it  by moving uncarefully.

> Every phase is identical to the precedent. There is no real change over the pillars going down. The game doesn't get harder, Orbital Nukes don't become faster, the number of rollers doesn't increase, the Boss doesn't get faster nor angrier... There is no feeling the game is getting harder.
Outside of the gone Rollers abundance, the Bossfight has become not Dynamic.

It's ok if DE listens to the Community feedback, but damaging one of the best bossfight you ever realized basing on the whim of people who can't bear the slighest challenge... That's just too sad.

What's the problem?
Increasing the difficulty would require the Loot to have a more rich reward?
"Fast Peaced" theme holding down the game again?


[I'm a bit tired atm, I'm going to update the post in the next days] 


 

Edited May 2, 2016 by Burnthesteak87

[CrimsonDalekanium]

The rollers were near-permanently stunlocking anybody who was trying to shoot the buttons, which require you to stand still. This can be countered by having a teammate or two watching for rollers, but countering a boss's CC for other players is really, really boring. Kela's attacks actually do change from Phase 1 to Phase 2 and 3.  I agree that orbital blasts should work through cataclysm but not for players individually rifted. 

This bossfight is only "the slightest challenge"  if you are in the position of having very strong guns and a good frame or a good team. Try doing this fight with an Excalibur/Nyx/Oberon/Volt, no Shotgun, no Launcher, no gear, no primed mods, no event mods, no "Baro" mods (piercing caliber, etc.) no arcanes, no Focus abilities, and either a public team or no team at all. Suddenly got a lot harder, didn't it? This is the position most people will find themselves in upon reaching Kela de Thaym for the first time. The way the boss is now is doable but difficult for somebody in that position, but nearly laughable for somebody who has every frame, Focus, pizzas, a powerful, ammo efficient weapon, and has done the fight before. This is not a bad thing, because adjusting the difficulty for a player who has nearly completed the game will lock out players who are at the Sedna Boss in their progression.

Edited May 3, 2016 by CrimsonDalekanium

[Burnthesteak87]

6 minutes ago, CrimsonDalekanium said:

The rollers were near-permanently stunlocking anybody who was trying to shoot the buttons, which require you to stand still. This can be countered by having a teammate or two watching for rollers, but countering a boss's CC for other players is really, really boring. Kela's attacks actually do change from Phase 1 to Phase 2 and 3.  I agree that orbital blasts should work through cataclysm but not for players individually rifted. 

This bossfight is only "the slightest challenge"  if you are in the position of having very strong guns and a good frame or a good team. Try doing this fight with an Excalibur/Nyx/Oberon/Volt, no Shotgun, no Launcher, no gear, no primed mods, no event mods, no "Baro" mods (piercing caliber, etc.) no arcanes, no Focus abilities, and either a public team or no team at all. Suddenly got a lot harder, didn't it? This is the position most people will find themselves in upon reaching Kela de Thaym for the first time. The way the boss is now is doable but difficult for somebody in that position, but nearly laughable for somebody who has every frame, Focus, pizzas, a powerful, ammo efficient weapon, and has done the fight before. This is not a bad thing, because adjusting the difficulty for a player who has nearly completed the game will lock out players who are at the Sedna Boss in their progression.

Rollers were stunlocking people who wouldn't afford to keep them down.
I managed to do it solo with a Nekros the first and second time when it was way harder than it's now. With no Powers use.
Also the community is really spoiled by the overall brainless difficulty Warfarm applies to every bit of content. That doesn't justify anything.

What you wrote is just something that could relate to damage and DPS speed Phases. Primed Mods, Corrupted and others on your Warframe don't really matter since your survival is barely touched by the difficulties this bossfight offers as it is now.

 

[rockscl]

im missing a few of things:

friction on the surrounding walls, why cant we parkour around the arena?

her third stage should come with nullifier drones

nullifier drones everywhere please

Edited May 3, 2016 by rockscl

[Desperado14]

One thing I noticed is that the sonicor made it really easy with the green lock buttons.  Just fire at the center of the wheel, and you can hit the buttons, even when they are not showing.  This made it incredibly easy, and even with just lethal torrent on the sonicor for fire rate, you can open two locks between orbital strikes, while doing the mission solo.  I would say this is a little op, but it will get you through the mission rather quickly.  

This might happen with other aoe weapons too, but I'm not sure there would be a better one.  

[NeomanSeraph]

OP bear in mind you'll be running this boss multiple times for mods and saryn bits. Will you still think the same way when it's run 5 and you still didn't get Saryn systems?

[BLI7Z]

I solo her with Rhino + Marelok ... easier than with a squad...

[Chipputer]

24 minutes ago, SSNeoman said:

OP bear in mind you'll be running this boss multiple times for mods and saryn bits. Will you still think the same way when it's run 5 and you still didn't get Saryn systems?

So you want bosses to be changed purely because you might have to farm them one day? What an awful mindset to have when approaching game balance.

 

My main gripe is similar to yours, OP. But to add to it, I can't stand that the community considers this fight to have, "phases," when there are no differences in those phases. You shoot her, avoid strikes, pop targets, shoot her, avoid strikes, pop targets, shoot her dead. It's not a set of phases, it's a direct pattern. It's a Mario boss with guns involved.

[Burnthesteak87]

27 minutes ago, SSNeoman said:

OP bear in mind you'll be running this boss multiple times for mods and saryn bits. Will you still think the same way when it's run 5 and you still didn't get Saryn systems?

Yes, I'd screw off this useless farming feature for a more challenging game.

Youre right anyway, the Reward System is prompted to an endless farm mentality which I can't really say how is keeping the game alive.

[Amazerath]

1 hour ago, Chipputer said:

So you want bosses to be changed purely because you might have to farm them one day? What an awful mindset to have when approaching game balance.

[...]

Why? You don't think game balance involves balancing the grind in the game as well?

[NeomanSeraph]

 

5 hours ago, Chipputer said:

So you want bosses to be changed purely because you might have to farm them one day? What an awful mindset to have when approaching game balance.

Not "might". That's literally how every single boss in this game currently works. In order to get all the items they drop, you need to do multiple runs.
Taking that into account is extremely important towards balance, yes. I don't understand why you find that so contemptible. You ever do a sortie assassination? Those are tough, but they are one-and-done affairs so it's challenging, but not tedious. Now imagine repeating those 3+ times in a row. That becomes much less fun.
So yes, multiple runs should be factored into balancing.

 

[Chipputer]

3 minutes ago, SSNeoman said:

 

... multiple runs should be factored into balancing.

 

I'd argue quite the opposite. Multiple runs should be the last thing you worry about, if you do at all. If you can't get over having a few rollers stunlock you now and again then I don't know what to say to you besides, "use the tools that the game has given you to combat the problem." Hallowed Ground, World on Fire, Iron Skin, Atlas in general, teamwork with people covering each other, but, oh, wait, we have people like this that exist:

 

8 hours ago, CrimsonDalekanium said:

This can be countered by having a teammate or two watching for rollers, but countering a boss's CC for other players is really, really boring.

Oh no, what ever will we do?! Not that! We can't have people actively working together in a team based environment to achieve the same goal by doing... slightly different things than each other! Someone might get bored! We should just make it into a non-issue by removing it! That'll make it better!

[CrimsonDalekanium]

Now, in any public match, who is going to want to be put on roller duty? What are the odds people will even know what that is? It is not so much as the fact that it is boring, but the fact that people could soon abhor roller duty as badly as they hate being Desecrate. 

 

If it is such a good idea to add something that doesn't actually put you in danger, but is merely annoying, let's put some armored roller spam into the vay hek fight. And the sargas ruk fight. And hell, why not the lech kril fight. Rollers are simply annoying, not deadly, and they were put into a phase where the objective is to complete a puzzle. If the idea was to make the players fight for their survival, fine. But all these do now is stagger you until your sentinel/teammate kills them.

[JARVII]

Cuando se hace un evento ahi que pensar su finalidad, y este como todos su finalidad es que llegue a todos los jugadores , independientemente de su rango, el problema no es que un evento sea facil o dificil, es donde está lo dificil del juego?, porque no podemos empezar en oleadas 40 asi no perdemos 40 minutos paseandonos y aburridos que es lo peor, es muy facil arreglar todo esto, en los eventos poner 2 modos, normal y pesadilla, con distintos regalos. Para el caso da igual pronto se darán cuenta cuando la mayoria de jugadores sean rangos 21 y nos tengan tan aburrido como siempre metidos en drako para hacer los puntos de la escuela. En fin después de 3 años jugando cada vez me aburrre mas jugar, simplemente porque no ahi dificultad ninguna.

 

 

[Marthrym]

I find her much easier solo than in a group, ironically enough. Others just get in the way and the Orbital strikes scale in numbers with the squad's size. So go solo, easy peasy, go with a group of randoms, less easy if they just run around not knowing how to play the boss.

Also the rollers don't bring challenge. They bring boredom and frustation. Calling "teamwork" being tasked to destroy them, aka "roller chore", is quite frankly insulting that very word... "Boring" and "pointless" are much more fitting words as far as I'm concerned.

Still, not a bad fight, at least there is some interactivity and spatial awareness required. And I like the new Kela.

Edited May 4, 2016 by Marthrym

[Chipputer]

17 hours ago, CrimsonDalekanium said:

Now, in any public match, who is going to want to be put on roller duty?

People who actually enjoy being part of a team and don't mind having to do a small part to achieve something much larger, that's who. "Roller duty," can be summarized in simply casting some AoE skill that kills the enemies and then shooting the objective, anyway. You act like it's such a huge issue that someone might have to occasionally clear out some trash mobs.

You're the kind of person who goes to your job and gets told that your duty is to sweep up the floor whenever everyone else drops anything and that's it, but then you get upset that you don't get to do the big stuff so you ignore that and start doing the big stuff, not realizing that your job is what's keeping people from tripping over trash and slipping on things so they can operate smoother, aren't you?

[Currilicious]

Actually I like it like this.

I don't have to tailor-make the build for it.

There is definitely more room to play.

Edited May 5, 2016 by Currilicious

[Burnthesteak87]

Ok people like lazy fights, fine for you, fine for Warfarm :(