Please DO NOT allow new players into sorties!

[MagPrime]

Just now, BigBlackCook said:

By SKILL i mean the ability to do hacks, do spy missions and such, not aim. and it is essential to doing sorties. Like you said, A COUPLE, not a majority of the player base. Also define 'well equipped" because to me, it means to have at least rank 8 on important rank 10 mods like blind rage and trans

Majority of the player base...?  Dude, out of over 20 million accounts, only 2 million have bothered activating their forums accounts.  Unless DE requires players to visit the forums once a week, you will never have majority of the playerbase weighing in on anything in the forums.  That is an inane requirement for, well, anything you have to say on this subject.

I'm sorry, but there is nothing of value in this conversation.  You can't maintain a stance on definitions and you aren't providing a viable reason for a higher restriction beyond "I don't like low MR players" 

Either learn to make your own teams, or deal with low MR players in pick up groups.

[ashrah]

de can fix that u cant enter sortie if u dont have max gear... very simple

[Tenno29543]

3 hours ago, Noamuth said:

Majority of the player base...?  Dude, out of over 20 million accounts, only 2 million have bothered activating their forums accounts.  Unless DE requires players to visit the forums once a week, you will never have majority of the playerbase weighing in on anything in the forums.  That is an inane requirement for, well, anything you have to say on this subject.

I'm sorry, but there is nothing of value in this conversation.  You can't maintain a stance on definitions and you aren't providing a viable reason for a higher restriction beyond "I don't like low MR players" 

Either learn to make your own teams, or deal with low MR players in pick up groups.

I made alot of viable arguments to ban low lvl players from sorties. And not i don't have a bone to pick against low lvls. i said things such as majority of low lvl players are new players and do not know what they're doing in a sortie. It has nothing tio do with them coming to the formus... JUST BECAUSE a small group of low players know what they're doing it doesn't mean that i should take my time to examine them and find out if they know what they're doing. In the other hand, it's almost a no brainer to trust a mr 21 over a mr 5 for the player's experience and gear in the game. For you however, you alwqays say that low MRs are capable to do sorties and ignore that the majority of them don't.

Edited May 14, 2016 by BigBlackCook

[Tenno29543]

3 hours ago, ashrah said:

de can fix that u cant enter sortie if u dont have max gear... very simple

well u can have a rank 30 unformaed, un catalysted and un modded weapon.

[XenoFant]

You know that new players almost have no access to good stuff, like reliable weapons or potatoes?

They get stuck at a point, which actually prevents them from progressing in the game.

Of course leeches are annoying, but new player should be an exception. High Rank Leeches should be rejected, yes.

[ashrah]

Just now, BigBlackCook said:

well u can have a rank 30 unformaed, un catalysted and un modded weapon.

game as a lot problems....list is pretty big.......just dont play sortie with random ppl......its not plesent expirence reaaly wen half u team is more on back.....

[ashrah]

Just now, XenoFant said:

You know that new players almost have no access to good stuff, like reliable weapons or potatoes?

They get stuck at a point, which actually prevents them from progressing in the game.

Of course leeches are annoying, but new player should be an exception. High Rank Leeches should be rejected, yes.

no space in end game content as  Leeche personally if we have kik button i would kik him every time.. with comment.....

[XenoFant]

3 minutes ago, ashrah said:

game as a lot problems....list is pretty big.......just dont play sortie with random ppl......its not plesent expirence reaaly wen half u team is more on back.....

Could you please use proper grammar?

[SHADOW666WESKER]

To the OP, 1 word "SOLO"

I solo the sorties all days, no matter what they are, you just need some strategy, so i don't have to deal with leechers at all, is as simple as that.

 

[XenoFant]

1 minute ago, SHADOW666WESKER said:

To the OP, 1 word "SOLO"

I solo the sorties all days, no matter what they are, you just need some strategy, so i don't have to deal with leechers at all, is as simple as that.

Totally agree. There is always a way to make it alone. There are lot of broken combos.

[SHADOW666WESKER]

Just now, XenoFant said:

Totally agree. There is always a way to make it alone. There are lot of broken combos.

Exactly, you just need the right gear and some strategy, every sortie can be done solo, it doesn't matter what

[Senoinya]

29 minutes ago, BigBlackCook said:

Look, the end game missions are based on early game missions, if new players want to learn then go to a low lvl mission, i don't need no body to screw my game up. Again, you learn to walk before you run, you don't skip ahead or take short cuts and expect to get good results. New players and low MR players are 1 of the same majority of the time, i mean are you trying to tell me that there are a lot of low mr players that has about 2k hours of warframe? Are you trying to tell me that JUST BECAUSE those players exist we should trust low mrs and let them do end game stuff and EXPECT them to do good?

 

you are in a way contradicting your self because if new and unexperienced surgeons under go simulation then why do you suggests that new players should play a hard core lvl 100 mission to learn? The real thing for a surgeon is to do a real surgery that requires a lot of experience and skill, same goes for end game content in warframe, if a player have no idea what they're doing in endgame content and can not do anything to help, what's their purpose being there? much like a unexperienced surgeon in a real surgery.

I know this isn't necessarily "my" conversation, but I feel the need to reply to this rubbish you're spreading.

How do low level missions teach you how to do sorties? Sure, it'll give you the basics, but I'm pretty sure they have those down by the time they get to MR4, unless they really fail miserably at learning. Sorties require you to learn a lot of things, like hacking without ciphers (something some MR20+ players I've seen aren't even good at), learning how best to counter the special conditions of the missions, learning what frames are best suited for the scenarios Sorties present you with. The only other place an MR4 player is really going to learn all these more complicated "endgame" things is either through sorties, or through the void, which is where you probably learned them. Why? Because no other parts of the game actually give you any reason to equip yourself like that, or to learn all those details. So which would you prefer? Newbies learning in Sorties where failure just means redoing the mission, or newbies learning in void missions where failure means a wasted key, wasted time, and possibly even wasted rewards they had earned? I think the question answers itself.

" i don't need no body to screw my game up " - Who said it was your game? This isn't your game, this isn't my game, this isn't anybody's game, because this is EVERYBODY's game. This is a game for everyone who plays it and enjoys it. Nobody's "screwing up your game", they're making a mistake in a game and you're too self-entitled to care about how that affects anyone except yourself from the sounds of it. If you really don't want anyone to screw anything up, go ahead and get your perfect squad off recruiting chat, or from your clan. Your clan isn't hardcore enough? Then by all means, make your own and set your own limitations for who gets to join, and I wish you luck on finding someone who would tolerate someone with your personality as their leader.

" i mean are you trying to tell me that there are a lot of low mr players that has about 2k hours of warframe? " - First off, who said you need 2k hours in WF to do good in it? I have over 2k hours according to Steam, but I started being "endgame ready" pretty early on, and the newbies I've helped never took long to start doing great once I explained things and gave them a chance.

" Are you trying to tell me that JUST BECAUSE those players exist we should trust low mrs and let them do end game stuff and EXPECT them to do good? " - I can play this game too. Are you trying to tell me that JUST BECAUSE those players haven't max-leveled tons of weapons that they shouldn't be allowed at a chance to get the rewards from Sortie missions, most of which are often limited-time only? But to answer your question, no. In fact, I don't think anyone expects a low MR to actually do good, but this is where you're failing to think: You shouldn't be expecting low MRs to actually do good, the low MRs should be able to expect you to do good.

" you are in a way contradicting your self because if new and unexperienced " - ... I know this isn't a full quote of what you said here, but my god... Unexperienced? That would imply being experienced and then undoing your experience... Which is impossible. I'd call it a typo, but you proceeded to do it again and again, and given the way you write everything else, I can't imagine this is your second language. The word you're looking for is "inexperienced". I know I sound like a grammar nazi right now, but when you're trying to sound like the smart one in the conversation, you should spell things correctly.

" if a player have no idea what they're doing in endgame content and can not do anything to help, what's their purpose being there? " - Who said they have no idea what they're doing? They likely have the basics down by now, they just need the experience and the proper gear. Sorties aren't so unbelievably hard that one or two guys lacking the proper gear will really bring your team down. Unless, of course, you're not contributing much yourself. Which, if you're "endgame" and you're incapable of handling a sortie mission without an elite, perfect team... I do believe the question is what your purpose for being there is.

 

 

45 minutes ago, BigBlackCook said:

Look, the principle is there. where is the "fact" located? go ask a bunch of MR4 and 3s and ask them if they are fully ready and equpied for a sortie. By dat i mean do they have all the necercery skill, mods and frames

I have nothing to say to this post other than "equpied", "dat", and "necercery".

 

22 minutes ago, BigBlackCook said:

By SKILL i mean the ability to do hacks, do spy missions and such, not aim. and it is essential to doing sorties. Like you said, A COUPLE, not a majority of the player base. Also define 'well equipped" because to me, it means to have at least rank 8 on important rank 10 mods like blind rage and trans

Hacks in sorties, as I said, are fairly different from hacks anywhere else in the game. In any other part of the game, a player can just use a cipher and instantly complete any hack, and a lot of players do. People who can hack good aren't immediately recognizable by their MR. In fact, I'd be willing to argue that it's the low MR players that more commonly have the most skill with hacking, since they're unlikely to have gotten used to just answering every hack with a cipher. As far as spy missions are concerned, these missions are fairly straightforward, and all it would really take is for an experienced player to stop the MR4 and explain how it works if necessary. Help them learn, don't just kick them in the dirt.

[Tenno29543]

3 hours ago, Valsako said:

I know this isn't necessarily "my" conversation, but I feel the need to reply to this rubbish you're spreading.

How do low level missions teach you how to do sorties? Sure, it'll give you the basics, but I'm pretty sure they have those down by the time they get to MR4, unless they really fail miserably at learning. Sorties require you to learn a lot of things, like hacking without ciphers (something some MR20+ players I've seen aren't even good at), learning how best to counter the special conditions of the missions, learning what frames are best suited for the scenarios Sorties present you with. The only other place an MR4 player is really going to learn all these more complicated "endgame" things is either through sorties, or through the void, which is where you probably learned them. Why? Because no other parts of the game actually give you any reason to equip yourself like that, or to learn all those details. So which would you prefer? Newbies learning in Sorties where failure just means redoing the mission, or newbies learning in void missions where failure means a wasted key, wasted time, and possibly even wasted rewards they had earned? I think the question answers itself.

" i don't need no body to screw my game up " - Who said it was your game? This isn't your game, this isn't my game, this isn't anybody's game, because this is EVERYBODY's game. This is a game for everyone who plays it and enjoys it. Nobody's "screwing up your game", they're making a mistake in a game and you're too self-entitled to care about how that affects anyone except yourself from the sounds of it. If you really don't want anyone to screw anything up, go ahead and get your perfect squad off recruiting chat, or from your clan. Your clan isn't hardcore enough? Then by all means, make your own and set your own limitations for who gets to join, and I wish you luck on finding someone who would tolerate someone with your personality as their leader.

" i mean are you trying to tell me that there are a lot of low mr players that has about 2k hours of warframe? " - First off, who said you need 2k hours in WF to do good in it? I have over 2k hours according to Steam, but I started being "endgame ready" pretty early on, and the newbies I've helped never took long to start doing great once I explained things and gave them a chance.

" Are you trying to tell me that JUST BECAUSE those players exist we should trust low mrs and let them do end game stuff and EXPECT them to do good? " - I can play this game too. Are you trying to tell me that JUST BECAUSE those players haven't max-leveled tons of weapons that they shouldn't be allowed at a chance to get the rewards from Sortie missions, most of which are often limited-time only? But to answer your question, no. In fact, I don't think anyone expects a low MR to actually do good, but this is where you're failing to think: You shouldn't be expecting low MRs to actually do good, the low MRs should be able to expect you to do good.

" you are in a way contradicting your self because if new and unexperienced " - ... I know this isn't a full quote of what you said here, but my god... Unexperienced? That would imply being experienced and then undoing your experience... Which is impossible. I'd call it a typo, but you proceeded to do it again and again, and given the way you write everything else, I can't imagine this is your second language. The word you're looking for is "inexperienced". I know I sound like a grammar nazi right now, but when you're trying to sound like the smart one in the conversation, you should spell things correctly.

" if a player have no idea what they're doing in endgame content and can not do anything to help, what's their purpose being there? " - Who said they have no idea what they're doing? They likely have the basics down by now, they just need the experience and the proper gear. Sorties aren't so unbelievably hard that one or two guys lacking the proper gear will really bring your team down. Unless, of course, you're not contributing much yourself. Which, if you're "endgame" and you're incapable of handling a sortie mission without an elite, perfect team... I do believe the question is what your purpose for being there is.

 

 

I have nothing to say to this post other than "equpied", "dat", and "necercery".

 

Hacks in sorties, as I said, are fairly different from hacks anywhere else in the game. In any other part of the game, a player can just use a cipher and instantly complete any hack, and a lot of players do. People who can hack good aren't immediately recognizable by their MR. In fact, I'd be willing to argue that it's the low MR players that more commonly have the most skill with hacking, since they're unlikely to have gotten used to just answering every hack with a cipher. As far as spy missions are concerned, these missions are fairly straightforward, and all it would really take is for an experienced player to stop the MR4 and explain how it works if necessary. Help them learn, don't just kick them in the dirt.

The main idea is that new players and experienced players should't skip ahead.. A lot of mr4s know what they're doing in low lvl game modes? not really, but look, i see your point of the argument and i hope you see mine as well. I run missions to EXPECT people to know what they're doing and not just leech off me. and it's not about me either, it applys to other players who knows what they're doing as well. Being paired up with low lvl players who don't know what they're doing is not a good thing and it is a problem. you're trying to justify the problem by telling me to teach them how to learn? You do know that they might not even read the chat and might not even give a flying monster and just wanna leech and get it over with.   Plus, people who knows what they;re doing are there to FINSIH the mission not give a lesson. For those who really want to learn, it would be 10x better if they made a private match and ask people to teach them instead of doing noting in a public sortie. Yeah, its everyone's game  but does it make it okay to leech and do nothing? just because new players want to learn does it make it okay that they mess up other's game?  A sortie simulation should be made to solve the problem..

Edited May 14, 2016 by BigBlackCook

[Senoinya]

Just now, BigBlackCook said:

The main idea is that new players and experienced players should't skip ahead.. A lot of mr4s know what they're doing in low lvl game modes? not really, but look, i see your point of the argument and i hope you see mine as well. I run missions to EXPECT people to know what they're doing and not just leech off me. and it's not about me either, it applys to other players who knows what they're doing as well. Being paired up with low lvl players who don't know what they're doing is not a good thing and it is a problem. you're trying to justify the problem by telling me to teach them how to learn? You do know that they might not even read the chat and might not even give a flying monster and just wanna leech and get it over with.  For those who really want to learn, it would be 10x better if they made a pirvate match and ask people to teech them instead of doing noting in the sortie.

How are they "skipping ahead"? Skipping ahead would be, for example, being level 1 in your typical MMORPG and somebody brings you into a level 80 place and gets you an OP god sword that is leagues better than everything else you would have gotten otherwise, thus, you're completely ditching content and just getting to the top. I don't see MR4s going into sorties as being skipping, because honestly... I can't call Sorties "endgame" to begin with. MR4s can get into it for one, and for another thing, they just really aren't that hard to begin with where I feel like my limits are being pushed.

Also, I can't imagine someone like you spends much time actually trying to help newbies, so I find it funny that you would say "not really" about low levels knowing what they're doing in game modes. As someone who has everything I could possibly actually want in the game already, I spend a great deal of my time in the game helping newbies, and 9 out of every 10 of them around MR4 have an understanding of how all the mission types work at the very least.

I'm sorry, but I don't see your argument, because I'm someone who looks at everything from a factual, and logical standpoint, and unfortunately, your argument offers neither logic nor facts. Your entire argument is based on the idea that MR4s shouldn't have the option to do sorties at all anymore, even though you have the option to avoid them entirely. You argue that MR4s don't have the experience or the right gear to do sorties, yet this would only be a problem for a player who also lacks experience and proper gear, as if you had the skill and the gear to handle sorties properly, you would be able to just solo if you needed to, or carry the team if you joined an unsurprisingly bad pub squad. But alas here you are, complaining because of those stupid, evil newbies screwing up your game. How strange.

" I run missions to EXPECT people to know what they're doing and not just leech off me " ... Let's think about the logic here for a minute. No, seriously, let's just THINK about the logic. You join random pubs where literally anyone who knows how to click the sortie tab, set their matchmaking to public, and click "accept" can join, provided they're MR4 or higher and have an R30 frame, and you go into this expecting a team that is magically a squad of elites? Even if you do get MR-freaking-9,001 MLG clan no-scope elite as your entire squad, there's no guarantee that you won't have, say, three or four Trins, or three or four Frosts, or three or four Novas... You get the idea. The people you get are entirely random and there's no guarantees, so you shouldn't be expecting anything. Instead, you should be prepared for anything, not expect the best and be surprised when you get the worst. That'd be like going into the void and EXPECTING to get that exact part you want and then going on the forums and complaining because you got a Nyx Prime Systems instead of a Nikana Prime Blueprint.

" Being paired up with low lvl players who don't know what they're doing is not a good thing and it is a problem " - Lemme finish your sentence for you. " Being paired up with low lvl players who don't know what they're doing is not a good thing and it is a problem if you're not prepared for anything, and don't know how to use recruiting chat.". There you go!

" you're trying to justify the problem by telling me to teach them how to learn? " - No, I'm saying that instead of complaining every time you see one, you should try teaching them to be on your level of all-knowing gaming guru skill, sensei.

" You do know that they might not even read the chat and might not even give a flying monster and just wanna leech and get it over with " - You do know that not all "endgame" players are masters of communication either, right? There's people who ignore the chat or just plain don't care no matter what MR you're dealing with. Also, it seems from your wording that you're under the impression that every MR4 just wants to leech. Ever consider that maybe they just unlocked sorties and saw all the rewards and thought they'd give it a try? Why shouldn't they? They're rewards that could potentially help them out, and it's a fun challenge for them. They're not advertising themselves as elites on recruiting chat or something, it's not like you've been deceived, and you haven't even been forced to deal with them, because you could just go to recruiting chat.

" For those who really want to learn, it would be 10x better if they made a pirvate match and ask people to teech them instead of doing noting in the sortie. " - Okay, so tell me, when you are new, did you go on public chat asking for people to teach you stuff? If so, how did that go? I'm genuinely interested now. Also, ever consider that some people learn better from experience than from instructions?

 

In summary, it seems your problem is that you lack the skill and equipment to solo or otherwise carry a Sortie mission yourself, but you're also too lazy to recruit a squad that suits your needs, so you want DE to restrict access to limited-time rewards from newbies just so you can have the convenience of always getting high MRs when you join pubs, because god forbid you should have to actually do more than click a single button to have the squad you want.

Have a good day, sir.

[HAYABU5A]

better to work with new players, teach them thru example or directly, than exclude them and leave them none the wiser

if we want perfect sortie runs go solo or organized group

and as everyone said anyways, there are so many weapons and frame builds that trivialize even sortie level content its practically a non issue for even just 1 OP FOTM to carry the other 3 in pug environment 

not to mention the newbies need the cores more than anyone else lol 

[Tenno29543]

3 hours ago, Valsako said:

How are they "skipping ahead"? Skipping ahead would be, for example, being level 1 in your typical MMORPG and somebody brings you into a level 80 place and gets you an OP god sword that is leagues better than everything else you would have gotten otherwise, thus, you're completely ditching content and just getting to the top. I don't see MR4s going into sorties as being skipping, because honestly... I can't call Sorties "endgame" to begin with. MR4s can get into it for one, and for another thing, they just really aren't that hard to begin with where I feel like my limits are being pushed.

Also, I can't imagine someone like you spends much time actually trying to help newbies, so I find it funny that you would say "not really" about low levels knowing what they're doing in game modes. As someone who has everything I could possibly actually want in the game already, I spend a great deal of my time in the game helping newbies, and 9 out of every 10 of them around MR4 have an understanding of how all the mission types work at the very least.

I'm sorry, but I don't see your argument, because I'm someone who looks at everything from a factual, and logical standpoint, and unfortunately, your argument offers neither logic nor facts. Your entire argument is based on the idea that MR4s shouldn't have the option to do sorties at all anymore, even though you have the option to avoid them entirely. You argue that MR4s don't have the experience or the right gear to do sorties, yet this would only be a problem for a player who also lacks experience and proper gear, as if you had the skill and the gear to handle sorties properly, you would be able to just solo if you needed to, or carry the team if you joined an unsurprisingly bad pub squad. But alas here you are, complaining because of those stupid, evil newbies screwing up your game. How strange.

" I run missions to EXPECT people to know what they're doing and not just leech off me " ... Let's think about the logic here for a minute. No, seriously, let's just THINK about the logic. You join random pubs where literally anyone who knows how to click the sortie tab, set their matchmaking to public, and click "accept" can join, provided they're MR4 or higher and have an R30 frame, and you go into this expecting a team that is magically a squad of elites? Even if you do get MR-freaking-9,001 MLG clan no-scope elite as your entire squad, there's no guarantee that you won't have, say, three or four Trins, or three or four Frosts, or three or four Novas... You get the idea. The people you get are entirely random and there's no guarantees, so you shouldn't be expecting anything. Instead, you should be prepared for anything, not expect the best and be surprised when you get the worst. That'd be like going into the void and EXPECTING to get that exact part you want and then going on the forums and complaining because you got a Nyx Prime Systems instead of a Nikana Prime Blueprint.

" Being paired up with low lvl players who don't know what they're doing is not a good thing and it is a problem " - Lemme finish your sentence for you. " Being paired up with low lvl players who don't know what they're doing is not a good thing and it is a problem if you're not prepared for anything, and don't know how to use recruiting chat.". There you go!

" you're trying to justify the problem by telling me to teach them how to learn? " - No, I'm saying that instead of complaining every time you see one, you should try teaching them to be on your level of all-knowing gaming guru skill, sensei.

" You do know that they might not even read the chat and might not even give a flying monster and just wanna leech and get it over with " - You do know that not all "endgame" players are masters of communication either, right? There's people who ignore the chat or just plain don't care no matter what MR you're dealing with. Also, it seems from your wording that you're under the impression that every MR4 just wants to leech. Ever consider that maybe they just unlocked sorties and saw all the rewards and thought they'd give it a try? Why shouldn't they? They're rewards that could potentially help them out, and it's a fun challenge for them. They're not advertising themselves as elites on recruiting chat or something, it's not like you've been deceived, and you haven't even been forced to deal with them, because you could just go to recruiting chat.

" For those who really want to learn, it would be 10x better if they made a pirvate match and ask people to teech them instead of doing noting in the sortie. " - Okay, so tell me, when you are new, did you go on public chat asking for people to teach you stuff? If so, how did that go? I'm genuinely interested now. Also, ever consider that some people learn better from experience than from instructions?

 

In summary, it seems your problem is that you lack the skill and equipment to solo or otherwise carry a Sortie mission yourself, but you're also too lazy to recruit a squad that suits your needs, so you want DE to restrict access to limited-time rewards from newbies just so you can have the convenience of always getting high MRs when you join pubs, because god forbid you should have to actually do more than click a single button to have the squad you want.

Have a good day, sir.

Look, this is a co-op game and everyone in theory should pull their weight, is that wrong?

Plus, i found contradictions in your words. You suggest that i teach people how to play and yet u said that not everyone cares about my mr and what i am saying.. then why are you suggesting me to teach them how to play in the first place? To me, you are implying that people just leech and don't care like what i said. Can't find someone to teach you if you're new? Are you trying to say that the answer to that would be just to hop in a public mission and expect different? And if people don't, blame them for not able to carry the squad because not everyone is pulling their weight? how dare they right? What? You said my statement don't make sense and you're already contradicting you self. New players learn from experience and they see the sortie with good rewards so why not try? Then why are you telling me to give them instructions in the first place? why not give it a shot? maybe it's end game content and you're not ready? In a sense, trying to get that nice reward is skipping ahead of them selves.b Plus, how is doing something you know you can't do not skipping ahead?

Edited May 14, 2016 by BigBlackCook

[shadrad]

1) I don't feel that any of the current regular/low level missions prepare you for sorties, especially on your first few runs at it. Very few of the normal maps require you to min-max your mods to complete them. Also, not all Sortie missions require the same amount of skill-- some days they're not that hard, like extermination and excavation types. Other times, you get Level 100 Vay Hek, which a group full of high MR players just couldn't defeat after an hour of trying with their group type. 

2) Mods are a problem in WF right now, and DE knows it and is working on it. If you already have a bunch of the 'must-have' mods, of course you don't think it's that hard to get them. Getting primed mods requires a ton of time investment, tower key collection, tower running for ducats, waiting for Baro to carry it, or having plats and someone willing to sell. I'm still missing a few mods that would make my life way easier at lvl 100 missions, but it doesn't make it impossible.

3) Part of maximizing group effectiveness is choosing a good combination of frames/builds for a group. Having an EV Trinity is great in a lot of random parties-- having 4 EV Trinities... maybe not as much. With public matchups, you get what you get, and you may get a good combination that makes the mission easy, or you may get a combination that just isn't very effective at meeting mission requirements. I've had the fortunate experience to have ended up in many groups that, when the sortie seems ridiculously difficult, we abort the mission and discuss which frames/weapons/builds we should swap to instead, then have another go, and almost always succeed.

4) If what you want is 'to not have to party with unskilled players who will ruin the mission', then you need to expend actual effort. You need to, IDK, join a clan, or talk to people, or make some actual friends to run missions with? What's cool about having friends is that, if they're not perfectly up to your standards of play, you can take the time to be a cool guy and teach them the stuff they probably don't know, that will make everyone's life easier. WF players are, by and large, eager to learn to get better at the game, and with the current iteration of the game, a lot of this knowledge is not something you can learn without talking to someone else.

(just last week, someone in a relay griped about Frost players leaving snowglobes everywhere and never taking them down. Most of us were like '... how do you take it down?' and they explained you can use your first power to dissolve it, causing the entire relay to go 'HOLY CRAP SERIOUSLY???'. And these are not remotely new players.)

So ultimately, the complaints I'm seeing and the justifications dance very deftly around the core argument-- you want to be able to finish an end-game mission (which are supposed to be challenging) without any problems, delays, or failures (unreasonable expectation of end-game challenges) and without putting forth any effort to prevent those failures yourself (like talking to people, putting together a group, having patience/starting the mission over).

You're asking DE to make it easier for you to do challenging content for what reason? So you can feel like a super cool badass who can defeat sorties in ~a breeze~ because you're just so super awesome and good at this game, wow? You're playing a free-to-play PvE video game based around playing as a group to defeat challenges. Like. That's built into the design, the lore, the everything-- you're a team of space cyborg ninjas who, with teamwork, can defeat the overwhelming odds. Teamwork. T E A M W O R K. Which involves talking to people, helping people, sharing knowledge, and not being a pretentious $&*^ when people aren't as good as you want them to be, or they make mistakes and you assume their reasoning is 'they're bad at the game' or 'they're too new to play this', when it's more often 'i forgot to swap my aura mod' or 'I forgot radiation damage explodes other players' or 'my cat just jumped on my keyboard, god dammit'.  

Like, ultimately, I've found the WF community on-game to be overwhelmingly patient and helpful. I try to be the same and help new players where and when I can. I try to assume that people are trying their best, and when they make mistakes, it's not because they're bad players and not ~~worthy~~ of running on a mission with me, but because they're normal people, and the worst that's gonna happen is that I have to do the mission over (WOW WHAT A HORRIBLE DISASTER GOSH, LIFE == OVER). My clan and friends are always trying to recruit new players to play the game with us, and with that comes the understanding that they're gonna be awful for a while, because there's a wealth of knowledge they need to acquire-- that takes time, and active effort on our parts to be informative and patient. 

But that's also why I don't have this problem with Sorties-- If I want less of a risk of it failing, I can be like 'Hey dude-I-trained-in-the-Space-Ninja-Ways, wanna help me with this Sortie' and they're like 'Sure!!' and then we suit up and kick &#! together-- just as did the people who recruited me to play with them.

So, tl;dr, DE's skill requirements for completing sorties is having MR 12 in 'fking talking to people and being patient', which I think is totally fair on a F2P PvE game.

Edited May 14, 2016 by shadrad
(clarifying the requirements for primed mods)

[Wandering_Cyberdragoness]

Perhaps a better solution would be a Sortie Test before you can do Sorties? maybe make Sorties locked unless you have like a Sortie Key or something, a permanent item that basically says: I did a thing. The test could be a triad of missions, let's say survival for 15 minutes, a Spy mission, and a Defense mission for 10 waves, all at Sortie 3 difficulty with Eximus Stronghold modifier. Make it so people with the key cannot assist in the test, but people without can. So, you know. if you need proof, that people have git gud enough for Sorties, there's your proof. I think EVERYONE should have to take the test as well, and maybe do the Spy mission solo? 

Edited May 14, 2016 by Xen_Ashwood

[haloamted]

On 2016-05-03 at 0:03 AM, BigBlackCook said:

bla bla bla ...

As said before me, if you don't like pugs go solo, can't finish it solo, depending on others to do the work for you?

• No: Good, problem solved.
• Yes: Guess its not only the new players, huh.

  

Spoiler

Please DO NOT allow stupid players to post on the forums!

 

[KIREEK]

If i could make a couple changes, it would be these:

• No more taxis to content you can't access on your own.
• You need to clear the star map in order to access sorties.

[Tenno29543]

3 hours ago, haloamted said:

As said before me, if you don't like pugs go solo, can't finish it solo, depending on others to do the work for you?

• No: Good, problem solved.
• Yes: Guess its not only the new players, huh.

  

  Reveal hidden contents

Please DO NOT allow stupid players to post on the forums!

 

what? Like i said, everyone should pull their weight and solo and pre made groups are nothing but bandaids and don't  fix the core problem.

I am here to have a CIVILIZED debate and i am not here to exchange insults and be immature.

[haloamted]

1 hour ago, BigBlackCook said:

what? Like i said, everyone should pull their weight and solo and pre made groups are nothing but bandaids and don't  fix the core problem.

I am here to have a CIVILIZED debate and i am not here to exchange insults and be immature.

I don't think I was insulting nor being immature (BigBlackCook, ok). I simply stated that this problem of yours is ridicilus and made fun out of your choice of title. So let me take a step back and explain why in my opinion this is stupid and a waste of yours and everyone elses time.

 

This is a co-op game, as you've stated yourself in your new post about this particular topic, you can choose play alone or play with friends you know. You can also recuit people based upon a (stupid imo) number (MR), that will take a little bit of effort but if you believe its worth it, good.

Now, when all those options are out of the way you still got the option to play with random people, people who plays the same game as you, no supervision by you or anyone else as it should be. If you can't accept this, that some people doesn't has as much gear as you etc, don't pug and stick to your premade groups or stay solo and let me and likeminded people help beginners.

 

 

Edited May 14, 2016 by haloamted

[Chipputer]

2 hours ago, BigBlackCook said:

have all the important weapons like the tonkor, hek(vaycor), sancti tigris etc

None of these weapons are necessary to hold your own in a Sortie. Beyond that, two of the weapons you've named require MR12.

[Wandering_Cyberdragoness]

51 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

If i could make a couple changes, it would be these:

• No more taxis to content you can't access on your own.
• You need to clear the star map in order to access sorties.

Alright, so these are both insane, but for different reasons.

For both of them: Very few people have the time or ability to unlock every node, especially with how many team-oriented missions there are that go unplayed 90% of the time.

For the first change: Taxis make a lot of sense in relation to the above reason, allowing those of us without the required masochism or time sinking to unlock every node to still access events for things like that most cancerous of resources, Nitain Extract. 

For the second change: Grinding until your fingers rot off does not make you a better player, it makes you seem somewhat unsound in the head. That's an awful requirement that would disallow 70% of regular Sortie runners from doing Sorties.

 

[KIREEK]

2 minutes ago, Xen_Ashwood said:

Alright, so these are both insane, but for different reasons.

For both of them: Very few people have the time or ability to unlock every node, especially with how many team-oriented missions there are that go unplayed 90% of the time.

For the first change: Taxis make a lot of sense in relation to the above reason, allowing those of us without the required masochism or time sinking to unlock every node to still access events for things like that most cancerous of resources, Nitain Extract. 

For the second change: Grinding until your fingers rot off does not make you a better player, it makes you seem somewhat unsound in the head. That's an awful requirement that would disallow 70% of regular Sortie runners from doing Sorties.

 

I still believe that the time they spend in doing missions they can't handle could be used to do missions they can handle.

As for disabling 70% of the runners in sorties, that seems just about right, if you haven't fought lvl 40 enemies in a exterminate, then why are you doing lvl 100 exterminates with conditions on top of them?

Not to mention sorties use a random node on the star map.

I see your point, but i would still prefer if players learned the ropes of defenses before jumping into some of the hardest content this game has to offer, for them it may be impossible even.

So yeah, no more taxis, working towards the goal of unlocking stuff is the 1st step, if you can waste time on a sortie, you can also use that same time to unlock a mission. Then clearing the star map, then comes the sorties.

If the players make decisions as if the world is going to end tomorrow and want things rushed as fast as possible, then you are bound to make basic mistakes, forced gameplay and learning the ropes of missions and it's objectives, aswell learning on what you can do and learning your limits is a priority over sorties.

Not to mention, forced gameplay on sorties (because they need to be done at any cost right now) will increase the % of mission fails on the player, making it look like the player is bad (the game stats could have a point here), because a good part of his time in warframe ends up in mission fails and wasted time, therefore, less efficient gameplay. (sooner or later you are bound to have a team or teams that can't keep up, resulting in a mission fail and wasted time, time that could be used on other things)

So sending them to unlock content they can unlock and making them clear the star map will force them to play better and improve overtime, resulting in a more pleasant experience, better results for the time they have (more efficient) and will increase their helpfullness in sorties when they are ready.

But that's me.