Please DO NOT allow new players into sorties!

[Chipputer]

9 hours ago, Thebel said:

It is about you though, your own inability to deal with low MR players in your sortie group.

Because it should totally be on one person in the squad to handle the majority of the issues coming up in the mission, right?

You're implying the exact opposite of what the person you're quoting is-- you're implying high MR players should be able to handle things on their own just fine, while they're implying low MR players can't handle it. You're doing the same thing they're doing, but in the opposite manner.

Are you aware that this game is multiplayer? Are you aware that Sorties were intended to be done as part of a group? Are you aware that when one or more parts of a chain weaken, the whole thing can easily break? I may not agree with gating newer players arbitrarily, but I also have the intellectual integrity to understand the point they're trying to make.

9 hours ago, Thebel said:

The moment you get a Blind mirage, Mag on corpus, a Bladestorming Ash, or some other faceroll build in your squad, you basically are just leeching yourself

No, no you're not. You act like those things are fail-safe builds that require absolutely no vigilance on the part of the rest of the players. You also act like they're balanced, at all, and that Mag, herself, isn't being reworked by DE purely because Shield Polarize is broken.

A player that can contribute but is prevented from doing so is completely different from a player that cannot contribute because they don't have the ability to.

[Pwincessbaby]

Its funny how everyone who doesn't agree only has 1 reply that is basically "learn to carry better or don't play public"

Don't you realise carrying isn't fun? Its not about if a person can do that or not.... I personally get angry when someone who doesn't know me feels entitled to be carried by me

Public game should be tuned to benefit the people doing the right thing, not the people leeching... the leechers are the ones who should have to go find a special group to carry them, it shouldn't be the norm to be able to get into a sortie squad and have all 0 rank weapons and a useless frame and be able to be carried

I think asking for sortie to have some decent restrictions is fine, i mean we put up with leechers everywhere else so can't there be 1 thing people have to work for?

Doing rathuum boss you get MR 2 people on lvl 8 frames who do 0% of the dmg and you have to tell them to stand on the pad and shoot green....  sometimes they cant work it out and you have to straight leave the group, don't you think for all that we put up with normally, we deserve 1 single part of the game to not contain players who clearly cant handle the situation and content?

Im not a pro, i still fail lots of stuff.. but hey at least i come prepared and i understand how to do things even if it takes me a couple of tries

[motorfirebox]

That's just how pubs work, though. If you're going to pub, you should prepare for the possibility that one or all of the other guys aren't going to be able to carry their weight.

[Tenno29543]

On 5/5/2016 at 0:24 AM, Tomppak said:

You're wrong from a completely mechanical point of view:
MR is a result of how many weapons and frames you have leveled up. It has nothing to do with mods.
While it is true that a high MR player is likely to have better mods (because they have played for a long time, thus have a lot of credits, and thus have had the resources to upgrade their mods) this isn't in no way enforced by the game. One could run their starting set up for eternity and upgrade all the mods to max rank, and still be MR1 - likewise, one could buy all the weapons and all the frames and rank them up to 30, attain MR 21, and still have no mods upgraded.

as a side note: I'm in the process of upgrading the critical mods - most are rank 6 or 7. I've got 500k creds and could easily upgrade a lot of them to suitable levels, but I'm saving up for the last syndicate level. I'm estimating that I should have max level mods by mr7 and should basically be good to go for sorties. MR requirement of 12 would mean that I need to level up a dozen more frames and a Dozen more weapons (Likely even more than that) just to get access to them which would be pointless.


I think that the core of the problem is how the MR works - it's a measurement of time, not skill nor level of mods. The MR tests should be either completely rehauled in a way that they would test your actual level of equipment+skill instead of only testing your "skill" (for example, higher level enemies versus a silly target practice or terminal hack test).
For example: If the MR requirement was 6, then the MR 6 test would need to be one that actually tests if you can survive against, and kill, sortie level enemies.
Currently the MR is just an indicator for the amount of stuff you've acquired. Alternatively, there could be a "sortie tutorial" for when you first try it, where you'd go solo against sortie-level stuff to see how well you'd fare.

Also - please explain to me, how would a MR12 requirement prevent me from running a lvl 16 excalibur in there? A MR 4 already basically ensures that you have to have a frame or two at max rank - if you still choose to run a low-ranked frame to a sortie, it has nothing to do with your MR, and everything to do with you either trying to get carried&exp'd up, or not realizing what you're getting into.

 

Actually, yeah, I think a sortie tutorial - or a sortie "test"/quest would fix the problem on both fronts - You couldn't get in if you can't get through the test (to make sure you're up to the task), yet you aren't restricted from accessing sorties simply because you haven't got dozens of weapons and frames ranked up. It would also serve as a "reassurance" for players like me - I could try it out and see if I'm up to the task without actually running a chance of ruining someone else's game.

i agree that just because u have a ton of frames lvled it doesnt mean u got the mods but again, i rather trust a mr 14 than a mr 4 with their mods being maxed and know what they're doing. That is what i am trying to say.I mean wouldn't u do the same? cause i dont run into too many low mrs with good mod setups and such. I also agree with the sortie test thing. However, they should make the mr system based on mods as well.

[Tomppak]

I agree with you - I do trust a high Mr players more because there's a better chance that they are a good player with good equipments. This isn't about trust, though, but about avoiding players from attempting to do stuff they aren't clearly geared enough to do - thus, a quest to unlock sorties would be welcome  (kinda like you need to complete rathuum 1 and 2 before you can try 3 and endless), or alternatively rehauling the Mr system to test actual skill and gear lvl instead of, um, not really testing anything. 

I'm sorry if I came off a bit agressive, but imagining that I'd need to grind in another 240 hours or something, just to level frames and weapons I won't use, doesn't feel fair way  to restrict access. Simply put, Mr progress doesn't measure what we think it should measure.

[-Temp0-]

Nah. Some weapons like soma, soma p, tonkor, dread and so on is way lower than mr12. But can do more. 

Not to mention, I've met more than enough lazy or incompetent high mr players and low mr players that were able to host nightmare LoR succesfully, for example. And mr12 is way too high. Majority of people can handle something like Triton or Hieracon for 1000-2000 or os cryotic being mr8, and sortie is not that more difficult. It's already bad enough we have special people like founders,exclusive prime access things (however few they are), making such strick restrictions for sortie or void is just a no. Newer players are already treated like pretty much nothing with all the elitist bs "need frost prime or ash prime for some random t2-t3 void bs" "need x for something vaguely high lvl, mr 20+ only".

[Chroia]

This reminds me of Eyes of Blight, and people who hadn't spent the time ranking/gearing up their AW kits.

I'll grant you that character mod progression is essential in certain S3s (i.e. any in which you need to kill stuff), because lol enemy scaling.

But there are ways to contribute that aren't MOAR DMGz. Using a support frame is one way. Dropping pizzas (getting R3 with a syndicate isn't too hard to do) is another. Heck, I know a guy (MR 6 or 7, last I checked?) who made a point of making and maxing an EV Trin as one of his first frames for that exact reason.

But leechers gonna leech. MR has nothing to do with that.

As a person whom it took a hell of a long time to 'get into the groove', the big deal to me is: 'are they trying'?

Quote

Are they joining and afking?

Are they dying and staying in-mission, dead?

 

Do they spend Revives?

Are they trying to contribute?

 

Are they leeching off your carrying either way? Sure.

But there's a difference between being un(der)geared and unwilling.

As we see in Tomppak's post.

Edited May 7, 2016 by Chroia

[-Temp0-]

On 05.05.2016 at 2:29 AM, Pwincessbaby said:

Doing rathuum boss you get MR 2 people on lvl 8 frames who do 0% of the dmg and you have to tell them to stand on the pad and shoot green....  sometimes they cant work it out and you have to straight leave the group, don't you think for all that we put up with normally, we deserve 1 single part of the game to not contain players who clearly cant handle the situation and content?

Im not a pro, i still fail lots of stuff.. but hey at least i come prepared and i understand how to do things even if it takes me a couple of tries

Lol, you really think it's because their mr was low? It's because they're most likely fought her for the first time and didn't use cheese like ignis or Rhino, didn't watch or read about her. And the most important. That's why they hit public. But why did you? In amjority of cases, public in the events or new content is a waste of time. People that can do it, doing it solo or with their friends. People that can't do it solo for whatever reason, hit public. The problem here isn't mr tho yes it limits them but many - many people couldn't figure what to use on Kela to make it painless, many on youtube were talking about using tanky frames or nova or some crap and still were saying it's not some easy fight, in the first day of the event no one said just 'bring rhino and ignis and you're golden'. And the part where you should shoot all the... things just to be able to deal damage to her again (and then again) wasn't that obvious as you might think now, too.

Quote

Heck, I know a guy (MR 6 or 7, last I checked?) who made a point of making and maxing an EV Trin as one of his first frames for that exact reason.

This. Actually, a good strategy since no one wants to play EV and that's why when you need to do something and you have it (ev i mean), you can count yourself already in.

Edited May 7, 2016 by Nomen_Nescio

[Leyers_of_facade]

Hm, I propose an alternative solutions to this.

Use the "Conclave standing" of your gears. Remember the tactical alerts where you have to bring something below 700? or below 500 for that sigil  / last reward you want? that is the thing I am talking about.

 

My idea is for the players to have to meet a certain amount of this value in order to participate. I am suggesting the minimum of 200 or 150 for every thing you bring into the sorties, that should ensure it being at least modded to some extent. (Excluding companions and their respective weapon)

Of course some of the standings of mod will have to be changed. The 50 on the status chance mod (eg melee prowess which is quite useless) is just a pure joke while blood rush is absurdly low....

Edited May 8, 2016 by 14159265358979323846

[(PSN)matodox]

While I’m all for these changes, I can guarantee it will never happen. The people who are defending low MR scrubs, and claiming that MR “means nothing”, because they think EVERY high MR players MUST be Draco scrubs are over generalizing, in order to better fit their agenda. 

The community is divided over this issue. That is a fact. But the truth of the matter is, that the only people who claims MR is anything BUT an indicator of skill, and just another number, are the ones who frequent the forums. They think they’re being “good guys” defending the weak and the poor, but deep down they know that they’re full of it. The general consensus is that people WILL judge your mastery rank, and no amount of pity from these  wannabe goodie-goodies on the forums is ever going to change that. The arguments against the claim that MR doesn’t mean anything, have always been weak, but no amount of jabbering is ever going to change these deluded pseudo- nice guys’ opinion about that. They refuse to listen to the overwhelming facts FOR that MR is in fact, an indicator of skill set, 99% of the time. 

In the recruiting chat, people will always set a minimum MR requirement for sorties, raids and T3-T4 missions, they will always ask you what your MR is, and that’s how it will continue to be like, until DE decides to set the bar for us all. Some noobs/forum veterans tend to get butt hurt by this, acting like it’s a form of discrimination, when the fact is, this is the way that it is/should be in all level/ranking based co-op games. Nobody wants to take the risk of bringing a scrub into high level content in ANY game. Those who do, are just kidding themselves, like 50% of the posters in this thread.

I can honestly say, that in my +1000 hours of playing and +10.000 missions, I have yet to run into even a single completely incompetent high MR player above MR 15+. And yes, I almost exclusively play pugs or play with randoms from the recruiting channel. I have yet to run into even a single one of these high MR “Draco scrubs” that some of those opposing the concept of Mastery Ranks claims as their no. 1 argument that MR isn’t an indicator of skill set and “means nothing”.

I honestly don’t really care if I might sound a bit harsh, because I’m just tired of hearing these deluded idiots talking against any form of improvement over the current system that we have, 'cause they act like virtual SJWs, which allows noobs to exploit leeching off of high MR veterans in end-game content such as raids, sorties, Draco and T3-T4 Void, getting taxi’ed and getting carried, because they don’t feel like earning their way through stuff like all of us have. I cannot for the life of me fathom, what the hell is wrong with these peoples’ mindsets. In video games YOU EARN YOUR WAY THROUGH EVERYTHING. How can people think it’s just a ok to allow others to cheese their way through and skip ahead to the ending, without proving themselves deserving of this first? And don’t give me that crap “video games are about having fun hurr durr”, because that’s not all it’s about; it’s all about progression, just like life itself is. You progress your way towards the longterm endgame, you don’t skip ahead, because that is not fun, nor does it feel rewarding in any sort of way. If you believe otherwise, you’re only fooling yourself.

I expect to get a lot of backlash for this. Please, do not disappoint me in this regard.

[-Temp0-]

9 hours ago, (PS4)matodox said:

While I’m all for these changes, I can guarantee it will never happen. The people who are defending low MR scrubs, and claiming that MR “means nothing”, because they think EVERY high MR players MUST be Draco scrubs are over generalizing, in order to better fit their agenda. 

The community is divided over this issue. That is a fact. But the truth of the matter is, that the only people who claims MR is anything BUT an indicator of skill, and just another number, are the ones who frequent the forums. They think they’re being “good guys” defending the weak and the poor, but deep down they know that they’re full of it. The general consensus is that people WILL judge your mastery rank,

Or maybe... just maybe you know those people met enough "low mr scrubs" that actually weren't scrubs? Yeah, no one is saying you won't be judged by your mr in some didicated groups like LoR team or Draco, but don't fool yourself into believing people who say that mr means nothing lying to themselves or you. Of course people will ask (more often then they won't) if you know what you're doing or if you have the right build, but that's as far as it should really go. It will be clear as a day if person knows what he's doing or lying. 

Quote

In the recruiting chat, people will always set a minimum MR requirement for sorties, raids and T3-T4 missions, they will always ask you what your MR is, and that’s how it will continue to be like

Not even 50% of people ask that when they recruit. For a good reason.

Quote

I can honestly say, that in my +1000 hours of playing and +10.000 missions, I have yet to run into even a single completely incompetent high MR player above MR 15+

Lucky you. I've met enough braind**** individuals to the point where you learn not to expect anything from high mr players automatically and not to judge low mr ones.

Edited May 8, 2016 by Nomen_Nescio

[Tenno29543]

4 hours ago, Nomen_Nescio said:

Or maybe... just maybe you know those people met enough "low mr scrubs" that actually weren't scrubs? Yeah, no one is saying you won't be judged by your mr in some didicated groups like LoR team or Draco, but don't fool yourself into believing people who say that mr means nothing lying to themselves or you. Of course people will ask (more often then they won't) if you know what you're doing or if you have the right build, but that's as far as it should really go. It will be clear as a day if person knows what he's doing or lying. 

Not even 50% of people ask that when they recruit. For a good reason.

Lucky you. I've met enough braind**** individuals to the point where you learn not to expect anything from high mr players automatically and not to judge low mr ones.

I have a problem with your last statement, just because you ran into a lot of bad high mr players does it mean that the low mr players are in some way, shape or form more reliable and trustworthy? Plus, how did u tell that the player don't know what they're doing? do they die all the time? do less then 10% damage while not playing A supportive role or what? Because i have no idea how u judge if a high mr player knows what their doing or not.

[-Temp0-]

11 minutes ago, BigBlackCook said:

I have a problem with your last statement, just because you ran into a lot of bad high mr players does it mean that the low mr players are in some way, shape or form more reliable and trustworthy? Plus, how did u tell that the player don't know what they're doing? do they die all the time? do less then 10% damage while not playing A supportive role or what? Because i have no idea how u judge if a high mr player knows what their doing or not.

I never said they're "more reliable". I said that assuming they know nothing or can do nothing is wrong. And assuming that high mr players are more reliable or just reliable will lead to f-up situations. When you assume mr 15, 20 knows how to do LoR on Nightmare LoR or even Draco and they drive the core right into the electricity or capping all 4 points and run around meleeing people you will realize that yes, mr means nothing.

Quote

 

Plus, how did u tell that the player don't know what they're doing?

 

Because they:

Don't respond when being asked if they know how to do something.

Don't respond when being asked what their stats/builds are.

Don't respond or argue when asked to change aura or change something.

Being arrogant in general and instead of answering to something saying "let's just go lolz".

Once you've seen couple of those, you'll know they're gonna suck and have something wrong in their build or gear and trying to avoid attention and questions.

And so on. Including previos examples about LoR. When Loki carrier won't equip his primed flow. When someone sighs up as a carrier (being mr 14 or 16 don't remember) and have no clue what carrier even does so other people forced to do his role. When high mr players go to sortie with tricky conditions like viral or rad damage, and getting procd all the way killing their team or objective/operative not even knowing what rad hazard means. Yes, it's not hard at all to say when they do or don't know what they're doing.

[RipTideZ]

Was on the fence regarding this issue, until I got off a Sortie 3 with an MR 4 player holding an MK1-Braton. It was just the me (MR19), him, and another MR8 dude.
Finished it, but it left a bad taste in my mouth...

[UltimateGrr]

I've seen far to many MR 15+ players get wrecked by Sorties doing stupid stuff to get behind this.  I joined a pub once, and half the squad rushed the front door on a Corpus rescue mission and died, while me and an MR 5 went in through the vents and got the hostage.

The sad fact is that at this point MR is pretty much tied directly to how much Draco you run, and while that means you have the gear, and hopefully the mods, it doesn't mean you have the actual skill to apply that equipment in an actual fight.

 

[CrimsonDalekanium]

Here's an idea: Let players put a minimum/maximum MR requirement as a secondary group setting. So you can have your matchmaking set to public/friends/invite/solo, and set to Play with players with a MR that is higher than X and lower than Y. This way, you could lock out most noob players from your games and (if you want a challenge) high mastery ranks. This setting is applied if you are the host, and if you are looking to join a game. It is overruled if you are directly invited to a person's game and accept.

[Alma_Elma]

Quote

 

While I’m all for these changes, I can guarantee it will never happen. The people who are defending low MR scrubs, and claiming that MR “means nothing”, because they think EVERY high MR players MUST be Draco scrubs are over generalizing, in order to better fit their agenda. 

The community is divided over this issue. That is a fact. But the truth of the matter is, that the only people who claims MR is anything BUT an indicator of skill, and just another number, are the ones who frequent the forums. They think they’re being “good guys” defending the weak and the poor, but deep down they know that they’re full of it. The general consensus is that people WILL judge your mastery rank, and no amount of pity from these  wannabe goodie-goodies on the forums is ever going to change that. The arguments against the claim that MR doesn’t mean anything, have always been weak, but no amount of jabbering is ever going to change these deluded pseudo- nice guys’ opinion about that. They refuse to listen to the overwhelming facts FOR that MR is in fact, an indicator of skill set, 99% of the time. 

 

Out of the dozens of LV12+ profiles I've looked at out of boredom and curiosity, the one constant thing about them is that literally nearly every weapon they've mastered has less than 20 kills and less than 1,000,000 EXP. And the only ones who have the most experience are typically cheese weapons and frames, like the Tonkor, Syonid Simulor, Valk, Mirage...etc.

So we aren't overgeneralizing, its fact; the overwhelming majority of people who have high MR are those who grinded away their days at Draco/brought the weapon with them on missions and never bothered to use them after LV30. So really, while a high-level player is good, they aren't really any different from a mid-level player who didn't decide on grinding his days on a repetitive interception mission. There's probably a small exception to this, but its in the extreme minority.

Quote

In the recruiting chat, people will always set a minimum MR requirement for sorties, raids and T3-T4 missions, they will always ask you what your MR is, and that’s how it will continue to be like, until DE decides to set the bar for us all. Some noobs/forum veterans tend to get butt hurt by this, acting like it’s a form of discrimination, when the fact is, this is the way that it is/should be in all level/ranking based co-op games. Nobody wants to take the risk of bringing a scrub into high level content in ANY game. Those who do, are just kidding themselves, like 50% of the posters in this thread.

I PuG on a daily basis and the people who ask for MR are a small minority, and they're mostly concentrated in Nightmare Raids. They're more concerned about what my frame and build is. I'm just MR9 and I get into T3-T4 missions and sorties easily because I can fill on most roles people need in those missions (And really it isn't really that hard to be an uberl337supraweedhighMR player. Just abuse the most broken and idiot-proof builds like EV trinity, snowglobe Frost, and Blind Mirage, and you're in the club. Its where most of the end-game revolves around anyway.).

 

Quote

I can honestly say, that in my +1000 hours of playing and +10.000 missions, I have yet to run into even a single completely incompetent high MR player above MR 15+. And yes, I almost exclusively play pugs or play with randoms from the recruiting channel. I have yet to run into even a single one of these high MR “Draco scrubs” that some of those opposing the concept of Mastery Ranks claims as their no. 1 argument that MR isn’t an indicator of skill set and “means nothing”.

In my 600+ hours of playing, I've run into about a dozen or so high-level players who makes me want to bash my head on a wall at their incompetence.  Most common of which are LokiPs who can't stealth and/or hack for a damn and the others are squishy frames who decide to play Rhino and get mulched by a squad of LV100 Eximus troops. What mystical dimension are you playing from?

Quote

I honestly don’t really care if I might sound a bit harsh, because I’m just tired of hearing these deluded idiots talking against any form of improvement over the current system that we have, 'cause they act like virtual SJWs, which allows noobs to exploit leeching off of high MR veterans in end-game content such as raids, sorties, Draco and T3-T4 Void, getting taxi’ed and getting carried, because they don’t feel like earning their way through stuff like all of us have.

I cannot for the life of me fathom, what the hell is wrong with these peoples’ mindsets. In video games YOU EARN YOUR WAY THROUGH EVERYTHING. How can people think it’s just a ok to allow others to cheese their way through and skip ahead to the ending, without proving themselves deserving of this first? And don’t give me that crap “video games are about having fun hurr durr”, because that’s not all it’s about; it’s all about progression, just like life itself is. You progress your way towards the longterm endgame, you don’t skip ahead, because that is not fun, nor does it feel rewarding in any sort of way. If you believe otherwise, you’re only fooling yourself.

I expect to get a lot of backlash for this. Please, do not disappoint me in this regard.

So basically your justification for fun policing this game is: "I SUFFERED TO HAVE FUN IN THIS GAME, SO YOU GOTTA SUFFER LIKE ME TO HAVE FUN ASWELL AND VALIDATE MY STRUGGLES."?

Edited May 8, 2016 by Alma_Elma

[motorfirebox]

15 hours ago, (PS4)matodox said:

 

Edited May 8, 2016 by motorfirebox

[(PSN)matodox]

3 hours ago, Alma_Elma said:

Out of the dozens of LV12+ profiles I've looked at out of boredom and curiosity, the one constant thing about them is that literally nearly every weapon they've mastered has less than 20 kills and less than 1,000,000 EXP. And the only ones who have the most experience are typically cheese weapons and frames, like the Tonkor, Syonid Simulor, Valk, Mirage...etc.

So we aren't overgeneralizing, its fact; the overwhelming majority of people who have high MR are those who grinded away their days at Draco/brought the weapon with them on missions and never bothered to use them after LV30. So really, while a high-level player is good, they aren't really any different from a mid-level player who didn't decide on grinding his days on a repetitive interception mission. There's probably a small exception to this, but its in the extreme minority.

I PuG on a daily basis and the people who ask for MR are a small minority, and they're mostly concentrated in Nightmare Raids. They're more concerned about what my frame and build is. I'm just MR9 and I get into T3-T4 missions and sorties easily because I can fill on most roles people need in those missions (And really it isn't really that hard to be an uberl337supraweedhighMR player. Just abuse the most broken and idiot-proof builds like EV trinity, snowglobe Frost, and Blind Mirage, and you're in the club. Its where most of the end-game revolves around anyway.).

 

In my 600+ hours of playing, I've run into about a dozen or so high-level players who makes me want to bash my head on a wall at their incompetence.  Most common of which are LokiPs who can't stealth and/or hack for a damn and the others are squishy frames who decide to play Rhino and get mulched by a squad of LV100 Eximus troops. What mystical dimension are you playing from?

Ah, here we go, my first offender.

So let me get this straight; you base your assumptions off of looking through a few dozen of different players' profile tabs, and think just because they only use meta weapons and frames, then that must mean they're automatically incompetent in your book, and have only played on Draco? And you claim that you aren't generalizing? I must laugh now.

Here's a little something that you might not know: the K/D ratio of weapons and Warframes on our personal profile pages, are far from accurate 100% of the time. When I look through my own from time to time, and look at for instance, how many kills I've gotten as Hydroid or with my Tonkor, it states that I've received far less XP and kills with it, than I should have with them. Even with my mastery fodder weapons - which I power-levelled on Draco, to never use again - which I certainly got more than a few kills with; my profile tab would have me believe that I got 0 kills and 0 XP from all of those weapons, although the mission end results clearly states that I got X amount of kills with each of these weapons. Which of these algorithms sounds the most reliable as accurate measurements to you?

I regularly play Draco for the syndicate and focus points farm, and I almost exclusively play as Hydroid on that particular node, because I can easily carry myself and my whole team by releasing the Kraken for overwhelming CC and DPS. If there are no Ash, Mirage or Ember in my squad (or another Hydroid), I almost always make up for most of the dmg percentage by the end of the round, and my kill count is usually in the hundreds, ranging from everything from 200-500 Grineer just in a single round of Draco Interception. 

Yet, when I go to look at my statistics for Hydroid, the kill count only amounts to 5000, or less - can't remember the exact number; but my point is, that I've played as Hydroid literally hundreds of times during my 8 months of playing Warframe, and I know for a fact that I've killed way over the relatively small number the algorithm claims my total kill count to be. The same is true for all of my other weapons and frames, with which I haven't just used as MR fodder, and that I've actually used more than a dozen times in different missions. 

Warframe's algorithm doesn't even register or count 80% of your kills in the longterm, so your measurement is the farthest from accurate, it could possibly be. Your entire argument is hereby shot down.

As for your next two paragraphs, my only guess as to why our personal experiences differ from each other by such a huge margin, is that it seems that things are very different on console, than they are on the PC. Neither one of us can argue against that, 'cause I have and will probably never play Warframe on PC so I will always be unable to truly compare both experiences, and I reckon that's the same case for you. As I've stated before, it is very common occurrence, that people always asks for your mastery rank when recruiting on PS4 for high-level content. In fact, I would say that it's not normal to not ask for somebody's MR unless you're recruiting for the likes of T1-T2 nodes. Some people tend to get offended by this, but only if their own MR is low. And as I've also already stated before, in my +1000 hours of pug'ing, recruiting and rarely playing with friends, I have never met high MR Draco scrubs, I've only met scrubs who were of the lower MR variant. People like you tend to believe that getting to high MR is just so easy, and that anyone can just do it in like a month or so. I laugh at this, because it could not be any less true. You assume far too much my friend, and your assumptions are as baseless as can be.

Let's completely disregard the amount of time it would take to gather X amount of resources and credits, in order to build the amount of frames and weapons that it would take, in order to reach, say, MR 15. Let's also disregard the amount of time it would take for all of that gear to complete building in the foundry, unless you have an awful lot of money. Let's lastly also completely disregard the amount of time, that it would take in order to max all of that gear, even on Draco. Even then, getting to MR 15 cannot be done in less than two weeks, even if you're loaded with cash and will gladly waste away all of your money on buying stuff straight off of the in-game market, given there's a 24h restriction on taking a MR test. Let's assume that the average Warframe player is not rich and is not a F2P; do you honestly believe that just because people level some or most of their gear on Draco, then that must mean they don't know how to play the game, or haven't played anything other than Draco during their time with Warframe? There's a reason why the terms "meta" and "mastery fodder" even exists in the first place. The safest play, will always be to follow the masses; only use the things that you know will work (meta), and use everything else as mastery fodder, so that you can make space for the meta stuff. Not everyone wants to take the risk of forma'ing everything into oblivion, just so that your slightly-below-average weapon can become even remotely decent, nor do they have the amount of plat that it takes to unlock weapon and frame slots time and time again. A Tonkor is good, even without forma'ing it, so most people just bet on that. A Synoid Simulor is good, even without forma'ing it. A Supra however, takes a lot of forma'ing to make decent, plus the syndicate augment.

My point is, that just because people play it safe, that doesn't mean that they're completely incompetent, like you automatically assume with your weird sense of self-righteousness and anti-Draco elitism.

3 hours ago, Alma_Elma said:

So basically your justification for fun policing this game is: "I SUFFERED TO HAVE FUN IN THIS GAME, SO YOU GOTTA SUFFER LIKE ME TO HAVE FUN ASWELL AND VALIDATE MY STRUGGLES."?

"Fun policing", now there's a funny term. But no, I'm afraid my response is not the kind you were hoping to receive in this regard. I didn't suffer through anything in this game; it's a video game, how much can you truly suffer by sitting on your couch and pressing a few buttons on your controller. Aren't the point of most, if not all video games to gradually progress your way through, and earn certain stuff that makes you a better player? Unless you think hacking, cheating and/or cheesing is fun, my definition of fun is the joy that I receive by ranking up, getting better gear and progressing my way through said game. I feel like I earned it, you know. I'm certain that I'm not alone in this regard either. If you're not a casual, and if you like to play ranking games like MMOs, RPGs, open-world games like Assassin's Creed or GTA, if the game has managed to captivate you long enough, then the fun truly lies after you receive all your endgame gear, abilities, skills, and can compete in the "big league" or as it's otherwise known as "endgame". After all, this is how video games have been designed since the NES era of gaming, so I must not be alone in thinking that's what is the most awesome about video games; you shape your own history, like a good movie or a book. You completely immerse yourself in the experience, almost like it's you inside the screen. Would you honestly tell me, that you don't feel a sense of joy and pride if you work towards and achieve something in your own life? Or would you rather skip ahead to the ending when you're old and your golden days are over forever?

To put it in video game terms; the start of your journey is rarely as fun, as when you've progressed a fair good bit. The working (grinding) is almost always the least fun part, but when your time and hard work finally pays off, that is where the fun lies. There's an old saying in my native language which loosely translated means "You gotta earn, before you can enjoy".

Edited May 8, 2016 by (PS4)matodox

[Factman]

7 hours ago, CrimsonDalekanium said:

Here's an idea: Let players put a minimum/maximum MR requirement as a secondary group setting. So you can have your matchmaking set to public/friends/invite/solo, and set to Play with players with a MR that is higher than X and lower than Y. This way, you could lock out most noob players from your games and (if you want a challenge) high mastery ranks. This setting is applied if you are the host, and if you are looking to join a game. It is overruled if you are directly invited to a person's game and accept.

I would lean more towards this since I actually do get a kick out of carrying every now and then. I guess I'm alone in this sentiment?

[Chipputer]

21 minutes ago, Factman said:

I would lean more towards this since I actually do get a kick out of carrying every now and then. I guess I'm alone in this sentiment?

Nah, you're not alone. It's just having to carry all the time that people get sick of.

7 hours ago, Alma_Elma said:

In my 600+ hours of playing, I've run into about a dozen or so high-level players who makes me want to bash my head on a wall at their incompetence

Wow, only a dozen or so? In 600+ hours, you've met only about 12 players who were bad and also happened to be high rank. Let that sink in. 600 hours. 12 players. I'm not saying I disagree or agree with your position, I'm just trying to point something awfully silly out to you.

[Alma_Elma]

18 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

Wow, only a dozen or so? In 600+ hours, you've met only about 12 players who were bad and also happened to be high rank. Let that sink in. 600 hours. 12 players. I'm not saying I disagree or agree with your position, I'm just trying to point something awfully silly out to you.

This in contrast to the guy who somehow, has never met a bad high-LV player in his thousands of hours playing. I'm just saying, bad-high levels exist, they aren't all perfection-made incarnate. Most of them are good and some only earn the rank but not the skills expected with it.

[Chipputer]

13 hours ago, Alma_Elma said:

This in contrast to the guy who somehow, has never met a bad high-LV player in his thousands of hours playing. I'm just saying, bad-high levels exist, they aren't all perfection-made incarnate. Most of them are good and some only earn the rank but not the skills expected with it.

It being in contrast to a clearly hyperbolic statement doesn't matter. A MR21 player is, more believably, going to be a better choice than a MR4 player. You literally only being able to remember a small handful of bad players doesn't invalidate their overall point, which is that higher MR players are generally better than lower MR players.

Do I agree with them? No. I'm 100% certain they're cherry picking and exaggerating. But do I agree with you that your small amount of bad experiences is any better a talking point? Not a chance.

[Sardekar]

Just a different perspective to add.  I'm MR 8, and have had higher MR players chastise me for not doing sorties yet, because they claim they're easy and I'm behind the curve by not having done a bunch by now.  I've personally avoided them because from what I've read, I felt like I might not be able to contribute much, and didn't want to be carried.  I was told I was basically being a moron.

It seems like there's as many opinions on this topic as there are players, so don't assume you're speaking for all high MR players or all low MR players on this subject.  

Perhaps I'll do a sortie someday, but with the mixed attitudes of higher MR players(I'm either an idiot for not doing a sortie at low MR, or a leech for doing them..) I have little interest anymore.

in the end, if it's there, people are going to play content the way they want, when they want, regardless.  I actually care if I'm being useful, but I don't know if that's as common as I'd like to think it is.

[Errasix]

So this whole thread is one huge back and forth and probably is best summed up by saying there are both High and Low MR players that suck.  Lots of people trying to judge books by their cover.  Works some of the time, not all of the time. 

Can't decide if a players a tool unless you play with them. That rolls High and Low on MR.

I'm an MR7 adult gamer that brought my a$$ to the forums and wiki and sifted through the bickering for the relevant information i was looking for, frame/gear/mods then went and got it ended up with some prime frames and some prime gear to go along with the a couple frames i got and tried out, that got me to MR7, but according to this thread I'm low level and shouldn't be allowed in any given group.  It's like none of you have gamed online before. Never PUG'd before, never had to carry someone before.  Allow Cpt Obvious to help you out a little, some people suck, and you shouldn't play with them.  But to paint every player below a certain MR level with the "You Suck" brush isn't right, you're missing out on some good players if you do. Which is your loss cause those people, if they like the game, will continue to play. Despite the Uber leetist MR level nazis out there. Pretty sure you know who you are. I've met a couple.

It's not at all hard to determine the kind of player someone is, group up with them, talk to them in chat even.  I've read and witnessed how cool this particular community can be, and is no different from any other gaming community.  Level Snobs aren't a new thing nor are they specific to warframe.