Rathuum, Sedna, and Saryn, Chro-my!

[Giantconch]

Disclaimer: Salt. Heaps of it.

 

To open this feedback, I will state that I am MR 21, have every frame in the game, including regular Saryn and Chroma, and let me say, THANK GOD I DO. Having to go through who knows how many Rathuum battles now to grind for Saryn and the systems for the Chroma part would feel like a slap in the face now.

 

Rathuum as an event was "meh, pvp with ai, k then, grindy" and did not hold my interest for very long. However introducing this as the regular way to get to and through the Kela de Thaym boss battle is stupidity, and serves to call out the developers who have stated in numerous devstreams that they want to "Reduce the grind" as all out @(*()$ liars.

 

RNG determines which Saryn part will drop. Chances are quite slim that you will get a full set in only 3 runs, at worst you spend a week farming that same boss battle for your regular Saryn parts. Thats not really that bad, its still kind of grindy and sucks but tolerable. If you needed parts for the Chroma quest, you could simply visit Kela and farm her and hope RNG is kind to you, again, kinda grindy, but tolerable.

 

Now you have the Rathuum, and Judgement Point requirements to access Kela. It's going to take longer, and therefor is more tedious grind, to farm for regular Saryns parts, and the part needed for Chroma as well. It's the equivelant of locking the boss fight and having to re-do the same missions leading up to that boss battle on other planets just for your chance for RNG to flip you off. Wheres the grind reduction DE? Where? How much longer would I have needed to listen to Ordis and Simaris banter while waiting to get that damn boss battle just unlocked to have a chance at getting the required part? Chroma is a time-locked quest that you cannot proceed on to the next stage without building a piece. Quests cannot be paused or stopped, the annoying banter cannot be turned off. After every mission there they are, yammering on the exact same dialogue that makes me want to put my fist through the screen.

 

I understand DE wants Rathuum to be a part of the regular game and they won't remove it, but they should definitely consider either removing the requirement of Judgement points now that the event is over and instead have the Rathuum missions leading to the Kela battle so that once unlocked its farmable the exact same way as every other boss battle on the starchart.

Edited May 10, 2016 by giantconch

[Cat__Nap]

Yeah, currently working on my Chroma quest, and went to go get Saryn systems today, only to find that Kela's node is now permanently locked unless you gain points through Rathuum.

Really? There's no option for people that want normal Saryn or just need systems for Chroma? I haven't wanted to take part in Rathuum, and now I'm forced to in order to finish this stupid questline. A heads up would've been nice that non-prime Saryn would be permanently difficult to farm before the event started. Luckily I already capped normal Saryn a month or two before the event started, but RNG is RNG, and who knows how long it'll take me to get the one part I need.

This is a terrible design. Make it optional, don't force this on us. If I want an easier farm for normal Saryn parts and not have a chance at any of the Rathuum loot, why can't I?

 

Edit: Did a few Rathuums to see how grindy this would be. Screw that. Fix this, DE. Don't lock Chroma behind an unbearable RNG grind wall.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Catoriii

[rockscl]

looks like they didnt consider the chroma thing when they were doing this

Edited May 10, 2016 by rockscl

[apo86]

Got 6 Saryn chassis, 5 helmets.

No systems. Not a single one. And I need two of those...

I think I'm going to cry.

[Puzzleguy22]

DE, even if you decide to keep the Rathuum system, at least make it so that it's easier than Uranus, THE PLANET THAT COMES RIGHT AFTER SEDNA!

Forcing newbies to grind level 40-60 missions is just cruel, unusual punishment.

[Shockwave-]

I love the new Sedna, I wouldn't have minded it when I was after Saryn. Advancing from planet to planet should be hard. It hsould be a milestone, not just "hey taxi me to the sedna boss and help me kill her"

I like the idea of a mini-boss like Kela On Sedna, and if all the planets got similar treatment for Starchart 3.0 I would think it's great. You have to overcome something to get to the outer planets (espeically if the void goes away and prime parts drop in outer planet missions, or void entrences are accessed from various planet nodes). 

Yeah Farming Saryn is slightly tougher now in that you have to do 2 missions in Rathuum 3 each time you go back to Kela, but you get some cool mods as well for your extra farming effort.

 

It is still easier, and more fun, to get saryn than equinox.

Edited May 11, 2016 by Shockwave-

[apo86]

10 hours ago, Shockwave- said:

 

Yeah Farming Saryn is slightly tougher now in that you have to do 2 missions in Rathuum 3 each time you go back to Kela, but you get some cool mods as well for your extra farming effort.

Slightly? This level 24-28 boss node is now effectively locked behind a level 60 mission that you have to complete multiple times. Outside of a limited time event this can not be a good idea. What are the options here for newer players to progress? Get carried by much stronger players, buy mid-/endgame sets for plat or find some way to cheese the battles?

[Cat__Nap]

12 hours ago, Shockwave- said:

 

Yeah Farming Saryn is slightly tougher now in that you have to do 2 missions in Rathuum 3 each time you go back to Kela, but you get some cool mods as well for your extra farming effort.

 

It is still easier, and more fun, to get saryn than equinox.

2 missions in Rathuum? It takes 3 of the level 20 arena at minimum to gain access to the level 40 arena (meaning you've just gained, ta-da, a whopping 3 points for your trouble - only 97 more to go!), and a certain number of that to gain access to the level 60 arena (or, for most newbies that will barely be able to handle the level 40 arena, they'll have to grind that 10 times) just to gain access to Kela. How is that just two missions to get to her? That's a hell of a lot of grinding in a mission type that's the least fun I've ever had in this game.

Sure, if you already have Judgement points from the event, it's not as grindy, especially if you're able to whip through the level 60 arena. If you can't, or you're a new player, you're looking at a long, long grind for every single attempt on Kela for Saryn.

Coming from someone who has Equinox and didn't have good luck getting her parts, I vastly preferred that grind to this. At least she wasn't locked behind some stupid requirement where you had to grind to even get to the boss that drops her. Every freaking time.

Edited May 11, 2016 by Catoriii

[JohnnyQuantum]

There are a couple of other threads covering this topic. For now I've given up on getting to Uranus or completing the Chroma quest.

Please unlink progress from Sedna to Uranus from the Rathuum stuff; perhaps move the Rathuum content to an end level planet.

 

[apo86]

 

6 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

•    Increased the max health of all Kela De Thaym’s Executioners. 

Good job. Thanks a lot.

[ninjacat2015]

They are reducing the grind by making the game unplayable and motivating you to simply pay platinum and get things instantly instead of torturing yourself.

[JohnnyQuantum]

Well there are a number of outcomes, drive people to buy more platinum or drive them away from the game!

DE, we are only complaining because we love the game!

 

 

Edited May 13, 2016 by JohnnyQuantum

[Cidray]

been playing for a couple weeks now.

the whole event was badly executed from a new player perspective i have to say.

all i wanted was to unlock uranus, but i had to go through the whole grind of the event just to get the asassinate mission, which was

bad enough (and 40-40 is really hard for a new player), only to find out that the nav uranus would not drop. had to wait a couple days till this was finally fixed, before the event was over.

and now i realized i have to this over and over again if i want to get Saryn, and even more for chroma 8(

compared to colecting the other base frames, getting Saryn is indeed kind of grindy and requires a huge amount of time.

same with Chroma.

tl/dr: please change this back to what it was before, gating (base) frame parts behind a grindwall is a bad idea and leaves a bad taste, like we are being pushed towards spending plat to get base frames. so far, Warframe was  fun and extremely fair, please keep it that way.

Edited May 13, 2016 by Cidray

[Aemonchichi]

hi warframes,

i am a new player, started a few days before the rathuum event after i read a recommendation for this strange warframe game because of its fair free-to-play system and many other good points, so i said to myself lets give it a try. a good friend joined right in, what better start can you have.

so we went on, learned about the game, farmed our first ressources and cash built our first stuff and were pretty amazed by the game. actually i had only 1 saryn part missing when the rathuum event came in. we decided after a few tries that it is not fun so we focused on other things like getting a wee doggy. our plan was to wait till the even is over and then farm the last parts and get on with the game and story.

but hey, after the event stopped the bossfight didnt return to normal, no, the awful judgement point requirements stayed. first we were pretty sure it is only a bug and will be gone after another server downtime, but no, people in chat told us nah thats gonna stay. pretty disapointing.

so today i got in chat with a [DE] staff member i will not name, cause he was friendly and open and i dont want him to have problems. i asked wether its a bug or delay or something and if the judgement point will be removed so we can play on.

no, he said, thats gonna stay and [DE] plans to bossgate more than just kela de thaym... cause they wanted to "stop the massive rare ressource grind" ... ??.. on kela ? wut ?

well after a bit of thought the picture came pretty clear - its not about a "rathuum" or whatever even its really only about boss gating, more grind, more tears, more frustration..

but why would you bossgate a boss that doesnt drop any prime part that you could force players to pay for ? obviously you would only ruin new players game experience..

nah, you do it like this if you wanna test how the community reacts to bossgating and increased grind, you do this, if you plan to bossgate prime drop spots and dont want a Shiatstorm in your face. first you start at someplace where noone really cares about and then, slowly, you bring more events, set grindblock in front of bosses and hope for frustrated players to pay for stuff they cant stand to farm anymore.

pretty frustrating for me cause i really started to like the game and i have seen enough games go down the "we dont earn enough with this spiral" to be part of another one

i surely give the game a few more days but if [DE] stands with their decision to bossgate, i am pretty sure i go find another game.

 

and no i will NOT fight 5 arena fights to get the 50 points needed to fight kela ONCE, because its just plain NO fun..

Edited May 13, 2016 by Aemonchichi

[apo86]

The more I think about it (and the more Saryn Chassis' I keep racking up) the more angry I get at this. In what universe is this an even remotely reasonable design? This is honestly the most stupid thing I have seen in any game in a very long time. And I've played lots of games.

It's soul crushing. And that's even though I actually can solo the Rathuum content because I invested in a decent Valkyr build. Every Executioner I have to kill makes me die a little bit inside.

 

Litteraly the only scenario in which this works is if there are no players without endgame gear and everyone is exclusively after the event mods. Then and only then is it not completely unreasonable to place an end game grind in front of Kela.

[Blazepyron]

Since there's two topics about this I'll put in my condensed two cents here as well:

1) drastically lower the levels of the arena nodes to match Sedna's overall level.  Arena 1: 15-15, Arena 2: 20-20, Arena 3: 25-25

2) Remove the point cost for Kela.  Once a player gets to 100 points, they should be able to fight Kela as much as they want in order to build Saryn and Chroma. 

I think this is a compromise that retains the intention of the Rathuum system without being unquestionably unfair to new players and without frustrating those of us who would just like to build Saryn or to progress in The New Strange. 

[Datcoolguy]

I'll quote my post on another topic wich fits

Quote

Two changes that would fix all of this:

1. Make the kela fight reduce no points.

2.Turn the rathuum nodes into additional nodes (kinda like with invasions) and have two versions of kela with different drop tables, one version doesn't have rollers, is better suited for players fighting away at lvl 20 enemies and drops regular uranus mob mods and the warframe systems corresponding to kela and the other one requires the 100 points and drops the event mods.

 

[JohnnyQuantum]

Or just move the Rathuum content to an end level planet?

[Blazepyron]

There's a couple major problems with that like a) it's Kela's event b) Kela has to be the one to drop Saryn because their designs match c) I'm not sure it's a great idea to move Saryn to Eris or somewhere later, just cause I think frame progression is pretty good as it is now.  It's just not feasible to relocate the entire event.  It's much much simpler to just calm it down so it fits within the progression of the game instead of being this odd cumbersome relic for new players to try and navigate.

[dragoon005]

Hey all. This is my first time posting in the forums despite playing on and off since Warframe's PC release.

In the interest of candor, I would like to make my position clear that i do not like Judgment points, that being said i also don't want any new mechanic removed from the game without at least a years trial and tweaks.

Nonetheless I will add my voice to those that state displeasure at the unreasonable wall to the acquisition of Saryn parts and that I wish the requirement for judgment points to complete Kela De Thaym mission be at least Non-penalizing. Meaning that completing the mission does not subtract 50 points from you forcing you to grind the arena missions again.

Keep doing what your doing beyond that guys :) still love the game.

[Cat__Nap]

So instead of making this mess better, they add a level 85 arena right near Kela's node, so you have to go around a longer way to get to her if you're first unlocking the nodes.

*slow clap*

Great job at making new players ragequit as soon as they try to get past Sedna, if that's what you were going for.

[[DE]Draice]

Hey there,

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. That was an oversight on my behalf. The goal was to replace one of the Mobile Defense nodes with a more challenging arena for the end-game players. I'd like to apologise for not noticing that the node happened to be on a path players used to get to Kela (I've had Sedna unlocked for a long time, so didn't realise this). Next hotfix should have the Vodyanoi and Yemaja nodes swapped around on the star chart, which should help alleviate this issue.

Cheers,

Draice.

[Rorgal_Sina]

3 minutes ago, [DE]Draice said:

Hey there,

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. That was an oversight on my behalf. The goal was to replace one of the Mobile Defense nodes with a more challenging arena for the end-game players. I'd like to apologise for not noticing that the node happened to be on a path players used to get to Kela (I've had Sedna unlocked for a long time, so didn't realise this). Next hotfix should have the Vodyanoi and Yemaja nodes swapped around on the star chart, which should help alleviate this issue.

Cheers,

Draice.

That doesn't solve the problem. Farming Judgement points over and over again just for a chance for a Saryn part and therefore progression in Chroma's quest is still excessive and a dramatic gap in progression.

[[DE]Draice]

1 minute ago, Rorgal_Sina said:

That doesn't solve the problem. Farming Judgement points over and over again just for a chance for a Saryn part and therefore progression in Chroma's quest is still excessive and a dramatic gap in progression.

That's not the issue I was trying to address here though. I was just making sure that a Level 85 mission was not on a critical path to reaching Kela.

[Cat__Nap]

1 hour ago, [DE]Draice said:

That's not the issue I was trying to address here though. I was just making sure that a Level 85 mission was not on a critical path to reaching Kela.

Thanks for acknowledging this part of it. It's great that you guys are willing to move that to make it easier on players. Would be nice to have adjustments to the entire thing in general since it's a low level planet, but at least not having a level 85 mission blocking Kela is a really good change.