Jump to content
Dante Unbound: Share Bug Reports and Feedback Here! ×

Rathuum, Sedna, and Saryn, Chro-my!


Giantconch
 Share

Recommended Posts

3 hours ago, [DE]Draice said:

That's not the issue I was trying to address here though. I was just making sure that a Level 85 mission was not on a critical path to reaching Kela.

Would you mind addressing the other point anyways? What's the reasoning for having Rathuum "in the way" of new players at all (Saryn, Chroma and progression to Uranus)?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow this exactly explains my frustrations this whole thread. I am currently trying to obtain saryn systems i have been before i started getting chroma and i still havent gotten it even when doing the quest. I liked the Rathuum event but i hate that it has stayed around for her. I'm just getting too frustrated trying to farm for her. I am HATING rathuum it was fun at first now its just plain irritating. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Catoriii said:

Thanks for acknowledging this part of it. It's great that you guys are willing to move that to make it easier on players. Would be nice to have adjustments to the entire thing in general since it's a low level planet, but at least not having a level 85 mission blocking Kela is a really good change.

10 hours ago, [DE]Draice said:

That's not the issue I was trying to address here though. I was just making sure that a Level 85 mission was not on a critical path to reaching Kela.

 

Then, pray tell, why in the seven hells did you guys put end-game level content... On Sedna?
I'm not necessarily critisizing here, but I would at least like to know the actual reasoning behind it. This is a level 20-30 boss. Not 50-60, so why have a level 80 something node? I can understand bossgating, but can it actually be made more... Reasonable, for the lower level players? High MR players or veterans can handle this kind of content easily, and happily will if the rewards match the time and effort invested. Thing is, they don't, not yet at least. And if you're going to have end-game content, or rewards, or end game missions, why not put them in a more fitting location, somewhere else that is also end-game?

Primarily asking because, while I understand that grind is a natural part of war frame, and outstanding content will have outstanding grind, this is not the case. This is unreasonable grind for low-level content. I made the mistake of selling Saryn for a slot a while back... Now I'm not even going to bother trying until this is at least a little bit reasonable.

That being said, I still love the work you guys do, but sometimes your actions leave my head a spinning. Sometimes.

Edited by BulletsforTeeth
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, BulletsforTeeth said:

Then, pray tell, why in the seven hells did you guys put end-game level content... On Sedna?
I'm not necessarily critisizing here, but I would at least like to know the actual reasoning behind it. This is a level 20-30 boss. Not 50-60, so why have a level 80 something node? I can understand bossgating, but can it actually be made more... Reasonable, for the lower level players? High MR players or veterans can handle this kind of content easily, and happily will if the rewards match the time and effort invested. Thing is, they don't, not yet at least. And if you're going to have end-game content, or rewards, or end game missions, why not put them in a more fitting location, somewhere else that is also end-game?

Primarily asking because, while I understand that grind is a natural part of war frame, and outstanding content will have outstanding grind, this is not the case. This is unreasonable grind for low-level content. I made the mistake of selling Saryn for a slot a while back... Now I'm not even going to bother trying until this is at least a little bit reasonable.

That being said, I still love the work you guys do, but sometimes your actions leave my head a spinning. Sometimes.

Ok yes i like this person lmao. I think it would be nicer if drops gave more of an accomplishing feel to it then farming it over and over just to get to kela de thayme

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, BulletsforTeeth said:

Then, pray tell, why in the seven hells did you guys put end-game level content... On Sedna?
 

You quoted the wrong person. I'm not DE, and I've mentioned several times in this thread how stupid the current Sedna setup is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Catoriii said:

You quoted the wrong person. I'm not DE, and I've mentioned several times in this thread how stupid the current Sedna setup is.

My apologies, I thought I was quoting [DE]Draice. The new forums are a little difficult to make out on the dark theme

 

Edited by BulletsforTeeth
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, BulletsforTeeth said:

Then, pray tell, why in the seven hells did you guys put end-game level content... On Sedna?
<snip>

The lore behind the Rathuum is closely tied to Kela, and her jurisdiction within the Warframe universe lies solely on Sedna. That is the reason why all of our Arnea modes appear there instead of being scattered to level-appropriate planets in the Origin system. By keeping the nodes off the critical path, the Arenas should provide options for players to play the difficulty they are most comfortable with. We have also rebalanced the Judgement Points awarded for each difficulty, to make it easier to farm them as you are able to beat higher tiered Arenas. The new, level 85 Arena awards the same amount of Judgement Points as the Level 60 Arena, so it is completely optional and targeted towards veterans who are looking for a challenge that felt as difficult as the pre-nerf Level 60 Arena, but without the cheesy high-damage. 

As for the reasoning behind adding higher level nodes to a Level 20 planet, we wanted to create a mode that would be challenging for as many players within our community as we could, instead of creating another event that veterans could blaze through without breaking a sweat. We launched with three tiers. Level 20 was aimed for new players, Level 40 was aimed at casual players with max-level weapons and Warframes, but not necessarily optimized or forma'd. The Level 60 tier was supposed to be aimed towards veteran players. After some balancing adjustments, it became apparent that while the Level 60 tier was challenging for most Warframes, there was a small subset that could still blast through it with ease (Oh, Ash...). So, a Level 85 tier was added to provided another challenge for those who wanted it (I made these ones resistant to Finisher Damage.. take that Ash).

So, to summarise, the reasons for these higher-level Arena missions on Sedna, is because we want the game mode to appeal to a broad group of Tenno, while adhering to the Lore laid out in the Rathuum event. We're comfortable with the amount of Judgement Points awarded from each tier of the Arenas, and each mission is much shorter than a typical mission, so the grinding should be present but not overbearing. I hope that helps clarify some of the thought processes that went into this game mode, and why it has been setup the way it is.

Cheers!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, [DE]Draice said:

The lore behind the Rathuum is closely tied to Kela, and her jurisdiction within the Warframe universe lies solely on Sedna. That is the reason why all of our Arnea modes appear there instead of being scattered to level-appropriate planets in the Origin system. By keeping the nodes off the critical path, the Arenas should provide options for players to play the difficulty they are most comfortable with. We have also rebalanced the Judgement Points awarded for each difficulty, to make it easier to farm them as you are able to beat higher tiered Arenas. The new, level 85 Arena awards the same amount of Judgement Points as the Level 60 Arena, so it is completely optional and targeted towards veterans who are looking for a challenge that felt as difficult as the pre-nerf Level 60 Arena, but without the cheesy high-damage. 

As for the reasoning behind adding higher level nodes to a Level 20 planet, we wanted to create a mode that would be challenging for as many players within our community as we could, instead of creating another event that veterans could blaze through without breaking a sweat. We launched with three tiers. Level 20 was aimed for new players, Level 40 was aimed at casual players with max-level weapons and Warframes, but not necessarily optimized or forma'd. The Level 60 tier was supposed to be aimed towards veteran players. After some balancing adjustments, it became apparent that while the Level 60 tier was challenging for most Warframes, there was a small subset that could still blast through it with ease (Oh, Ash...). So, a Level 85 tier was added to provided another challenge for those who wanted it (I made these ones resistant to Finisher Damage.. take that Ash).

So, to summarise, the reasons for these higher-level Arena missions on Sedna, is because we want the game mode to appeal to a broad group of Tenno, while adhering to the Lore laid out in the Rathuum event. We're comfortable with the amount of Judgement Points awarded from each tier of the Arenas, and each mission is much shorter than a typical mission, so the grinding should be present but not overbearing. I hope that helps clarify some of the thought processes that went into this game mode, and why it has been setup the way it is.

Cheers!

First off, thank you for a fairly quick reply, and a thorough explanation.

I would say though, that though what you said makes sense, why not then provide a nightmare version of kela or the likes, with accordingly more difficult content and possibly better rewards? It's nice to have a challenge, but going from level 80, to 20, seems a bit of a jump to me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 I would like to add my own frustrations to this thread. I've been inactive since the Nova update, and apparently my collected gear has become obsolete enough where equipment that used to easily get me through end game content (at the time) now barely gets me through the Nakki arena. While I'm not particularly upset about my stuff being obsolete (power creeps expected), and I'm used to RNG not being in my favor, it's the part that forces me to grind an additional 3-5 missions (depending if I'm partied for Nakki or soloing Undine) that really makes the game feel un-fun. The quest is interesting, so I do want to do it. Chroma looks fun and cool, so I do want to use him eventually. The extra 2-5 missions I have to do just for the chance to get the Saryn systems only makes an otherwise tolerable grind, intolerable.

 

I think what the OP suggested is a good idea. Require the points to unlock the mission, but once it's unlocked, it's unlocked for good.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/17/2016 at 10:10 AM, [DE]Draice said:

The lore behind the Rathuum is closely tied to Kela, and her jurisdiction within the Warframe universe lies solely on Sedna. That is the reason why all of our Arnea modes appear there instead of being scattered to level-appropriate planets in the Origin system. By keeping the nodes off the critical path, the Arenas should provide options for players to play the difficulty they are most comfortable with. We have also rebalanced the Judgement Points awarded for each difficulty, to make it easier to farm them as you are able to beat higher tiered Arenas. The new, level 85 Arena awards the same amount of Judgement Points as the Level 60 Arena, so it is completely optional and targeted towards veterans who are looking for a challenge that felt as difficult as the pre-nerf Level 60 Arena, but without the cheesy high-damage. 

As for the reasoning behind adding higher level nodes to a Level 20 planet, we wanted to create a mode that would be challenging for as many players within our community as we could, instead of creating another event that veterans could blaze through without breaking a sweat. We launched with three tiers. Level 20 was aimed for new players, Level 40 was aimed at casual players with max-level weapons and Warframes, but not necessarily optimized or forma'd. The Level 60 tier was supposed to be aimed towards veteran players. After some balancing adjustments, it became apparent that while the Level 60 tier was challenging for most Warframes, there was a small subset that could still blast through it with ease (Oh, Ash...). So, a Level 85 tier was added to provided another challenge for those who wanted it (I made these ones resistant to Finisher Damage.. take that Ash).

So, to summarise, the reasons for these higher-level Arena missions on Sedna, is because we want the game mode to appeal to a broad group of Tenno, while adhering to the Lore laid out in the Rathuum event. We're comfortable with the amount of Judgement Points awarded from each tier of the Arenas, and each mission is much shorter than a typical mission, so the grinding should be present but not overbearing. I hope that helps clarify some of the thought processes that went into this game mode, and why it has been setup the way it is.

Cheers!

I don't really have any issues with how the system is in terms of lore and the whole win the tournament to go fight the big bad thing. 

What's really irking me is the judgment points awarded for the level 20/40 arena. Running 10/20+ arena's for each attempt at Kela is not challenging the new/casual players, its just putting a grind wall in front of them with a big middle finger painted on it saying "Buy your saryn and chroma with platinum".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On June 17, 2016 at 9:10 AM, [DE]Draice said:

The lore behind the Rathuum is closely tied to Kela, and her jurisdiction within the Warframe universe lies solely on Sedna. That is the reason why all of our Arnea modes appear there instead of being scattered to level-appropriate planets in the Origin system. By keeping the nodes off the critical path, the Arenas should provide options for players to play the difficulty they are most comfortable with. We have also rebalanced the Judgement Points awarded for each difficulty, to make it easier to farm them as you are able to beat higher tiered Arenas. The new, level 85 Arena awards the same amount of Judgement Points as the Level 60 Arena, so it is completely optional and targeted towards veterans who are looking for a challenge that felt as difficult as the pre-nerf Level 60 Arena, but without the cheesy high-damage. 

As for the reasoning behind adding higher level nodes to a Level 20 planet, we wanted to create a mode that would be challenging for as many players within our community as we could, instead of creating another event that veterans could blaze through without breaking a sweat. We launched with three tiers. Level 20 was aimed for new players, Level 40 was aimed at casual players with max-level weapons and Warframes, but not necessarily optimized or forma'd. The Level 60 tier was supposed to be aimed towards veteran players. After some balancing adjustments, it became apparent that while the Level 60 tier was challenging for most Warframes, there was a small subset that could still blast through it with ease (Oh, Ash...). So, a Level 85 tier was added to provided another challenge for those who wanted it (I made these ones resistant to Finisher Damage.. take that Ash).

So, to summarise, the reasons for these higher-level Arena missions on Sedna, is because we want the game mode to appeal to a broad group of Tenno, while adhering to the Lore laid out in the Rathuum event. We're comfortable with the amount of Judgement Points awarded from each tier of the Arenas, and each mission is much shorter than a typical mission, so the grinding should be present but not overbearing. I hope that helps clarify some of the thought processes that went into this game mode, and why it has been setup the way it is.

Cheers!

So you put a challenge for vet players where few vet players actually go?... 

So from my perspective as a mr 21 player you've put a grind wall for vets that only applies to newer players i mean most players once thay get the loot from a boss thay never go back (because theres no point to go back) instead choosing to go to nodes and game modes with better rewards so all your doing is making new player progress near stall unless you get a high lvl player to backpack you through it and yes i have escorted a few noobs content like this before (cough) vay heck (cough) and its always the same "thanks and im NEVER doing that again" so all your doing is leaving a bad taste in new players mouths  and making it more likely that thay quit but thats just what im seeing  i love this game and i want to share it with others but i find it difficult to keep people going when you do things like this 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@[DE]Draice

 

Thank you for the work you have put into Sedna, Rathuum, and any other features you have had a hand in with Warframe. We all greatly appreciate having people like yourself working on a wonderful game.

 

I apologize for not being more attentive to this thread, however racking up hours clearing away swarms of a cloned army, and cupholders, have taken a fair chunk of my time and I dont always keep an eagles eye on threads I start...

 

That said, would it be possible for some new method of using Judgement points akin to the Derelict vaults? An extra locked room with a gate that lifts when Kela is defeated, which allows each user in a squad to access using judgement points if they choose to, to be able to have a second roll of the dice for the rare mods?

 

I'll try to explain a bit better...

 

Kela is defeated, the exit unlocks, and a gate rises from another door in the room.

 

User 1 approaches the door, a button that they can interact with appears "Unlock judgement vault (50 points will be deducted)"

 

User 1 enters the vault and claims their second roll of the dice

 

Users 2, 3, and 4 are not allowed to enter the vault without consuming their own judgement points (client-side force field?)

 

I think this may allow farming for Saryn parts, both for Saryn and for the Chroma quest, to be free of requiring judgement points, but still leave a reason for running the Rathuum missions for judgement points, in order to farm for some of the most interesting and useful mods released as of late.

Edited by giantconch
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, giantconch said:

@[DE]Draice

<Snip>

That said, would it be possible for some new method of using Judgement points akin to the Derelict vaults? An extra locked room with a gate that lifts when Kela is defeated, which allows each user in a squad to access using judgement points if they choose to, to be able to have a second roll of the dice for the rare mods?

<Snip>

I like this idea, but I don't think I'll be able to acquire the resources to act on it until after the next update. Leave it with me, and I'll raise it with my Leads in the future. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am also mentally at my tipping point with this grind wall.  Why is this necessary? If the mods are that super special that you need to lock them behind a boring grind on top of another boring grind then put the mods elsewhere.  Being forced to go through this grind to obtain all the Saryn parts with RNG still in the mix is insane.  Then not only that, you have to go back to doing this for the Chroma quest line as well?? SERIOUSLY?! DE I was loving your game up until this very point.  This grind alone has managed to infuriate me more than any game has in a LONG time.  With new players like me this boss can easily nuke us to hell and back and next thing you know the only option you have left is to abort.  This isn't fun, this is god awful design and needs to change.  Saryn is also my favorite warframe and seeing  her being gated like this just pours salt into the wound.

Edited by Azurein
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am, as well for being a reasonably new player, not super new because obviously I have Sedna unlocked, but as well I am sick and tired of this new way to grind Saryn through this so called "Rathuum for veterans" thing. I was starting to grind, all I got was her Chassis and then Rathuum update came and I said to myself "I'll wait for this to end so I can go through bad RNG to get finish all her required parts". Then it doesn't go, then I search the forums and see it is the NEW Boss fight for Sedna and all I thought was "I hate this game now and this grind just got 15 times worse and I just got a brick wall that is 200 ft. tall put right in my way". Don't get me wrong, Rathuum is good for those vet players, but I unlocked Sedna, grinded for 1 whole month to actually go through Sedna without hiding the whole time, I was weak. Then when I finally built my character strong enough, did it once and Rathuum came and stayed to haunt me. All I'm asking is make an option, and I know, I said option, just hurt brains of people. But make an option for people to choose if they want to do the Rathuum part to grind for Saryn or the regular(before Rathuum even came) grind. Because with Rathuum in my way making a 200 ft. Brick wall, flipping me off saying "you are not passing you dumb kid you should forget about passing" I can officially quit the game, but right now, with Rathuum in the way, I'm on a dead stop and I'm never going anywhere and that just defeats game purposes for me. Please add that option to choose between the regular boss fight before Rathuum and the Rathuum boss fight.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, [DE]Draice said:

I like this idea, but I don't think I'll be able to acquire the resources to act on it until after the next update. Leave it with me, and I'll raise it with my Leads in the future. 

 

Understandable, the triple-update must be absorbing most of everyones time. Lunaro changes, getting SotR ready and eventually War Within seems like a massive undertaking.

 

Thanks for considering!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 21/06/2016 at 10:25 AM, [DE]Draice said:

I like this idea, but I don't think I'll be able to acquire the resources to act on it until after the next update. Leave it with me, and I'll raise it with my Leads in the future. 

Yes please. That would be a perfect solution to the grindiness when you're just looking for Saryn parts. The current design is turning a lot of new players away as soon as they hit Sedna and realize the wall they've hit to keep progressing, and for the rest of the players just looking to finish their Chroma quest, it would allow them to do that without the massive grind added to the quest ever since Rathuum's introduction.

Thanks for being attentive to this thread and receptive to improvements! Even if it takes a while, it would really make things better in the long run.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Barkano said:

So? no intentions to break the grind wall?

 

On 6/21/2016 at 4:25 PM, [DE]Draice said:

I like this idea, but I don't think I'll be able to acquire the resources to act on it until after the next update. Leave it with me, and I'll raise it with my Leads in the future. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

54 minutes ago, Barkano said:

That suggestion is to reduce the grind to get the mods from the boss, not the saryns systems grind. 

Um, no. It's the opposite.

Quote

<Snip>

That said, would it be possible for some new method of using Judgement points akin to the Derelict vaults? An extra locked room with a gate that lifts when Kela is defeated, which allows each user in a squad to access using judgement points if they choose to, to be able to have a second roll of the dice for the rare mods?

<Snip>

Notice how it specifies that the judgement points could be for the mods and you get Saryn parts like normal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...
On 6/16/2016 at 8:25 PM, [DE]Draice said:

That's not the issue I was trying to address here though. I was just making sure that a Level 85 mission was not on a critical path to reaching Kela.

except noone care about lvl85 mission on the way to Boss, because you still need beat that mission to get points to allow you fight boss for just ONE time, and then boom wrong drop, repeat all that again.

you are missed WHOLE reason that this topic started, people frustrated not really because of 85lvl mission, they frustrated that to get basic frame parts and make chroma you need run boss for like 10 times, which forces you before every fight with boss grind that arena missions for 4+ times, then you getting something from boss - and boom, you need grind points to get to the boss again. and again and again...

Edited by gonzo007
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/10/2016 at 4:21 AM, giantconch said:

Disclaimer: Salt. Heaps of it.

 

To open this feedback, I will state that I am MR 21, have every frame in the game, including regular Saryn and Chroma, and let me say, THANK GOD I DO. Having to go through who knows how many Rathuum battles now to grind for Saryn and the systems for the Chroma part would feel like a slap in the face now.

 

Rathuum as an event was "meh, pvp with ai, k then, grindy" and did not hold my interest for very long. However introducing this as the regular way to get to and through the Kela de Thaym boss battle is stupidity, and serves to call out the developers who have stated in numerous devstreams that they want to "Reduce the grind" as all out @(*()&#036; liars.

 

RNG determines which Saryn part will drop. Chances are quite slim that you will get a full set in only 3 runs, at worst you spend a week farming that same boss battle for your regular Saryn parts. Thats not really that bad, its still kind of grindy and sucks but tolerable. If you needed parts for the Chroma quest, you could simply visit Kela and farm her and hope RNG is kind to you, again, kinda grindy, but tolerable.

 

Now you have the Rathuum, and Judgement Point requirements to access Kela. It's going to take longer, and therefor is more tedious grind, to farm for regular Saryns parts, and the part needed for Chroma as well. It's the equivelant of locking the boss fight and having to re-do the same missions leading up to that boss battle on other planets just for your chance for RNG to flip you off. Wheres the grind reduction DE? Where? How much longer would I have needed to listen to Ordis and Simaris banter while waiting to get that damn boss battle just unlocked to have a chance at getting the required part? Chroma is a time-locked quest that you cannot proceed on to the next stage without building a piece. Quests cannot be paused or stopped, the annoying banter cannot be turned off. After every mission there they are, yammering on the exact same dialogue that makes me want to put my fist through the screen.

 

I understand DE wants Rathuum to be a part of the regular game and they won't remove it, but they should definitely consider either removing the requirement of Judgement points now that the event is over and instead have the Rathuum missions leading to the Kela battle so that once unlocked its farmable the exact same way as every other boss battle on the starchart.

Hey guys. Great idea for taking out the new Grineer general.

Yeah? How?

Well go compete in her tournament. In her arena. According to her rules.

Or...we could kill her in her sleep.

Yeah, there is that.

Let's face it: the whole Rathuum thing was nonsensical and stupid right from the get go. Not to mention boring and repetitive.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Honestly, this Rathuum thing might be a better gameplay fit if it were a Trial mission, something like Law of Retribution, rather than a static mission type.

To be fair, Rathuum was fun when it first came out. It was a neat change, even though it took me several attempts to get the hang of the arena, AI, point system, and etc. I'll admit, I was frustrated, but I stuck with it and survived the learning curve, and I was thankful for having something new to do in Warframe. It felt like a real achievement when I finally beat Kela. Unfortunately, because of its heavy reliance on repetition, Rathuum lost its novelty rather quickly. As soon as I got the 2 mods I wanted, (Medi-ray and Vulcan Blitz,) I stopped playing it, washed my hands of the event, locked all the bad memories in a mental room for psychological trauma, and never touched it again.

If I were queen, this is what I would do:

  • Bring back the old Kela, or something similar, to serve as the boss of Sedna so that new players could farm Saryn parts just like every other boss.
  • Move "new Kela" and her executioners to a Trial mission. The lore here could be that Kela survived the attempt on her life and designed an even stronger body.
  • Make the Rathuum Trial purchasable from the Steel Meridian and Red Veil. This fits with the lore of the Tenno standing in for Grineer dissidents during their execution, since only respected members of the Steel Meridian or their allies, the Red Veil, would be asked to undertake such a dangerous mission.
  • Alter the arena for the Rathuum Trial so that players are in a significantly different environment for each of the 3 waves of Rathuum. Fighting in the same basic, open space gets boring. Put us on a platform above water where slam attacks cause pieces of the floor to fall, or give us scaffolding so we have vertical space to utilize. Something, please!
  • Reduce the Executioners to 2 of the 3 waves, (with Kela being the 3rd boss,) and award 1 unique mod on each of the first 2 waves, and an arcane on the 3rd wave. If you are feeling generous, DE, you could even give players a chance at getting a 3rd mod from Kela.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...