Sedna, Merrow, & Kela - normal planet progress to Uranus - BROKEN

[JohnnyQuantum]

Perhaps a solution would be to make judgment points necessary only for Rathuum specific rewards (the mods for example)?

0 Judgement points:

Same as before: access to Merrow, Kela and normal drops (nav segment, warframe parts etc.)

x Judgement points:

In addition to the above, the Rathuum specific rewards (executioner mods etc.)

 

[jezym]

7 hours ago, JohnnyQuantum said:

Perhaps a solution would be to make judgment points necessary only for Rathuum specific rewards (the mods for example)?

0 Judgement points:

Same as before: access to Merrow, Kela and normal drops (nav segment, warframe parts etc.)

x Judgement points:

In addition to the above, the Rathuum specific rewards (executioner mods etc.)

 

This seems like a good and logical solution.  People who want to just progress through the starchart or get saryn / chroma can do this without all the hassle and the ones who want the stances and mods can go through rathuum.

[Darzenis]

I just tried to solo a level 28 Kela with an Ash Prime and mainly a Dex Sybaris. After emptying almost all of my ammo (and mostly getting crits) I got to about 50% of her health. Her rockets (not the artillery) on the other hand tore me a new one right from the start. Luckily I did the assassination before the event but to the new players: Boy, are you in for a tough one!

Now, I know there are a lot of experienced guys out there who'd finish her with a level 1 character and weapon whilst playing on a Guitar hero controller and they most likely will tell me to "suck it up and git gud" but I feel she's a tad too much of a strong woman for me...and probably some of the starting gents and gals.

After that I tried it in public with an unknown rank 6 buddy. He got smashed from a single shot every time. It was like death fell in love with the guy. I rage quit and now I'm here crying and sobbing.

[JohnnyQuantum]

This has been stated in other topics (and games) and applies here: If you want to attract and retain players, just make the game fun and engaging - no need to add grind (grind is a terrible way to retain players, and can be counterproductive).

Edited May 17, 2016 by JohnnyQuantum

[Darzenis]

1 minute ago, JohnnyQuantum said:

This has been stated in other topics (and games) and applies here: If you want to attract and retain players, just make the game fun and engaging - no need to add grind (grind is a terrible way to retain players).

Expect this time they went full on "Dark souls" and made Kale an abomination...well, more of an abomination. Grinding is irritating yet doable. This is just hard. Some people like it hard, I like it soft and gentle.

[JohnnyQuantum]

The problem with Sedna is both the grind and the difficulty level. I've done some missions (via quest) on the next planet Uranus, and was fine there. But as I don't have the nav segment, given the grind and spike in difficulty on Sedna, I'm basically stuck. I feel those of us without the Uranus nav segment before the advent of Rathuum have been severely disadvantaged.

I've go my eye on the new prime access stuff, but given this situation, am reluctant to pour more money into this game.

[Cat__Nap]

This is really too hard for such a low level planet. I've been doing a few Rathuums since last night, and even the level 40 arena can be a bit tough to solo. No one queues for it post-event, so you're left doing most of these by yourself. Have yet to try the level 60, but not looking forward to it. Killing them isn't a problem; not getting oneshot is. I'd imagine it would be much harder for a brand new player that can't kill them in one or two hits. I've never had less fun in a mission type before, and it's ridiculous that I have to do all this over and over to (hopefully) get Saryn systems.

[JohnnyQuantum]

Thank you DE

 

Hotfix 18.12.1: Vauban Prime

Changes

• Tweaked Rathuum Judgement Points in an effort to allow players only fit for 'Easy' to progress with less repetition:
  • - Undine (Easy) awards 10 Judgement Points
  • - Nakki (Medium) 30 Judgement Points to access and awards 15 Judgement Points
  • - Yam (Hard) 60 Judgement Points to access (still awards 25 Judgement Points)

[apo86]

I'm having a hard time being grateful here. I thought the new player progression part of the problem would strengthen the argument, but apparently it just gave them an easy way out? "Players only fit for 'Easy'" now don't need 100 runs, but only 10 for their first attempt. So it is not impossible anymore. That's the change. It's still every bit as grindy and stupid for them and everyone else, it's just not impossible.

I read this change as a statement that yes, this is how we do it now, deal with it. This boss and possibly more bosses to come are going to be grind gated period. And I fundamentally disagree with that. Not with the specific implementation but with the very premise.

[JohnnyQuantum]

Well at least it has alleviated the grind somewhat.

That still leaves the difficulty, I haven't done the Kela boss fight yet - I just hope that the difficulty is appropriate for a level 20 planet!

Edited May 18, 2016 by JohnnyQuantum

[Reifnir]

Kela fight is tricky for new players, no arguing about it.

Limbo in a group can make the orbital bombardment phase a joke, so can a good Frost with Overextended + Cunning Drift + Blind Rage, but someone running Limbo (or a frame with multiple Nightmare mods/Drift mods) hardly qualifies as a "new player"... 

[Darzenis]

4 hours ago, Reifnir said:

Kela fight is tricky for new players, no arguing about it.

Limbo in a group can make the orbital bombardment phase a joke, so can a good Frost with Overextended + Cunning Drift + Blind Rage, but someone running Limbo (or a frame with multiple Nightmare mods/Drift mods) hardly qualifies as a "new player"... 

Having a Valkyr will nullify the rocket threat and you can just simply circle around to avoid the artillery. But for the sake of all known potatoes decrease her health! Avoiding the rockets could be doable once you get used to it, but shooting her in the face multiple times with crits and the correct elementals just to see the bar move ever so slightly to the left is...soul crushing.

I had a go with two Corrosive Projections and we got to half way before we quit. What the flying sheets of paper?

[indridfrost]

I don't even want to play until this gets fixed. While I appreciate the grind reduction, it's still grindy enough that I'm tired of farming it all for the 1 part i need for The New Strange. 

[JohnnyQuantum]

I don't understand the current (post Rathuum) setup of Sedna.

It is a level 20 planet. Kela is required for the nav segment to Uranus (which I assume is level 30). So Kela should be manageable by players who can handle level 20-30 content.

Given the above:

• What is the rationale in having level 40 and 60 arenas on this planet?
• How can Kela be an appropriate difficulty level for someone at level 20 and 60 at the same time?

[JohnnyQuantum]

Hmmm... no responses, have I stumped people, or they just don't care any more? LOL

[apo86]

11 hours ago, JohnnyQuantum said:

Hmmm... no responses, have I stumped people, or they just don't care any more? LOL

I personally have just given up. It's obviously what the developers want, for whatever reasons. And as long as they don't care to explain those reasons, there's no point in coming up with alternative solutions either.

 

PS: For those of you keeping track - 20 runs, no Saryn systems.

[BlackCoMerc]

On 5/16/2016 at 9:12 AM, Blazepyron said:

What doesn't make sense to me about this change is that there's not really an obvious way to pay your way past it. 

You can't pay plat to challenge Kela directly.  You can't pay plat for the Uranus nav segment.  You can't buy arena points with plat.  There's no shortcut to getting through Sedna at all, unless you spend a lot of effort to buy maxed mods from other players and prime weapons and such to be able to tackle the 40 or 60 arena on your own.

You could pay plat for Saryn but paying plat for a non-prime frame isn't that common to my knowledge...also I'm not sure Saryn is really worth it.

You could pay plat for Chroma, but there's a whole quest for Chroma.  It seems silly to have to skip a chunk of content simply because of a recent design change.  Also buying Chroma won't remove The New Strange, to my knowledge, and you can't buy the Saryn systems with plat to be able to progress.  I'm still keeping those players in my thoughts who don't have any other quests in progress and so have to listen to Simaris/Ordis/Lotus banter every time they come back to their ship. 

So all in all if this change is supposed to encourage us to buy plat to advance, I'm really left wondering: on what exactly?   

 

Hours. Played.

Inflating thatnumber, per user, on Steam and PlayStation, makes the game look good. It makes gullible investors believe more people like your game enough to play it a lot.

This inflates that number. So while there's no way to pay your way round it, it's still very much a money decision.

I get the feeling Warframe isn't doing so well fiscally...

[apo86]

2 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Hours. Played.

Inflating thatnumber, per user, on Steam and PlayStation, makes the game look good. It makes gullible investors believe more people like your game enough to play it a lot.

This inflates that number. So while there's no way to pay your way round it, it's still very much a money decision.

I get the feeling Warframe isn't doing so well fiscally...

I don't think that's it. Most people have a finite amount of time to dedicate to video games and during that time will do whatever feels most useful/rewarding/fun etc.

Unless the grind is literally the only thing left to do for you in the game, which probably doesn't apply to Kela for most players, there will not be more hours played. The hours played will only be spent differently. If I hadn't grinded effing Rathuum missions, I'd done something else, like void missions, quests or progressing through the starchart - but it would still have been Warframe because that's the game I currently enjoy most.

In fact I'd say it's the opposite. The negative mindest I get in when I just think of the grind, this feeling of being forced to do something I don't want (which of course isn't actually true, it just feels that way), makes it more likely for me to quit early.

[notlamprey]

I haven't really commented on this issue yet, mostly because I'm well past the point of it being a progress blocker for me. Basically, I can't get a good idea for how big a wall this presents for newer players.

I'm honestly kinda stumped here. What is the point of placing this gear check in front of players who still have yet to unlock a significant portion of the star chart? If I were a new player attempting to use "enemy level" as a guide for my progression, I would assume completing Sedna might be the way to go before heading to Europa -> Neptune -> Ceres/Pluto.

Going by the difficulty of those arena missions and the new Kela boss fight, where players can expect incoming damage on par with Tower IV void missions, the whole chain seems to have a big fat kink in it now.

There isn't any direct option for players to pay their way past it, either. Other than potentially shady deals on cab rides from strangers, I don't know what a person looking to skip the wall might do.

DE have continually bemoaned the state of Warframe's "new player experience," but they seem to actively be adding sins to the pile. It's just disappointing, really.

[BlackCoMerc]

49 minutes ago, notlamprey said:

I haven't really commented on this issue yet, mostly because I'm well past the point of it being a progress blocker for me. Basically, I can't get a good idea for how big a wall this presents for newer players.

I'm honestly kinda stumped here. What is the point of placing this gear check in front of players who still have yet to unlock a significant portion of the star chart? If I were a new player attempting to use "enemy level" as a guide for my progression, I would assume completing Sedna might be the way to go before heading to Europa -> Neptune -> Ceres/Pluto.

Going by the difficulty of those arena missions and the new Kela boss fight, where players can expect incoming damage on par with Tower IV void missions, the whole chain seems to have a big fat kink in it now.

There isn't any direct option for players to pay their way past it, either. Other than potentially shady deals on cab rides from strangers, I don't know what a person looking to skip the wall might do.

DE have continually bemoaned the state of Warframe's "new player experience," but they seem to actively be adding sins to the pile. It's just disappointing, really.

Well said.

Honestly I think it's time DE bring in a new Lead Designer.

Not because DE lack Talent. They are amazing level builders, animators, modelers and artists. Taken in isolation, they design excellent mechanics and implement those mechanics without issue.

But they can't seem to combine those mechanics into a satisfying GAME any longer. 

A lead designer would help here by looking at things objectively and forming a coherent vision under which the game would function. Gone would be the Endless competition between Warframe and Enemy designers, each trying to out scale the other endlessly. 

It's time to turn these disparate mechanics into a fun and coherent game experience.

[JohnnyQuantum]

The last few posts have been very interesting. The individual elements are good, it's a real fun game, I'm still playing (and paying) - for now!

In the instance of Rathuum and Sedna, my issue is the way in which they have been integrated, not the separate elements themselves. The Rathuum content in itself is fine, and I thank the devs for new (and slightly different) content, but the way it has been inserted into a mid level planet is frustrating, in particular for newer players.

100% agree with BlackCoMerc ...  It's time to turn these disparate mechanics into a fun and coherent game experience.

Edited May 22, 2016 by JohnnyQuantum

[Mattoropael]

Rathuum 2 and 3 should have been nuked alongside with Endless when the event ended, with Rathuum 1 awarding 25 Judgement point and Kela not taking them away.

Instead we're presented with this pointless, agonizing grind that royally screws everyone who doesn't have a Valkyr built for efficient Hysteria and a crap ton of free time over. A healthy dose of grind helps with player engagement. This crap, however, tempts people to Alt+F4 and uninstall.

Edited May 22, 2016 by Mattoropael

[Cat__Nap]

I love Warframe overall, and I think it's a pretty well-balanced game compared to the majority of MMOs. This one grind is really the only thing that irks me. Been farming for Saryn Systems for Chroma, and while they did reduce the absolutely horrific grind that Rathuum originally was, it's still really grindy to have to do 5 Rathuums every time I want another attempt...and killing her takes quite a while since I don't have much forma or top-end mods into my better weapons yet (no forma in my Staticor yet, though it's still decently strong, and she moves around too much for my three-forma Torid to be useful there).

Not to mention, because of the grindiness of actually getting to Kela, not many people queue for her, so most of the time you're left to solo it, and if it takes a while in a group...well, it's just plain annoying solo. They need to further reduce the grind if they expect people to progress through planets in a timely fashion, nevermind getting Saryn's parts or progressing through Chroma's questline.

[MegazordOP]

Hey DE new player here. This sucks. Was waiting for the event to be over with for normal planet progression. Thought it was a bug when it didn't go away. Came here and saw this. This is very disappointing and demoralizing for a new player. I hope this topic is revisited in your talks and normal planet progression is placed again. 

[BlackCoMerc]

On 5/22/2016 at 8:36 PM, Catoriii said:

I love Warframe overall, and I think it's a pretty well-balanced game compared to the majority of MMOs. This one grind is really the only thing that irks me. Been farming for Saryn Systems for Chroma, and while they did reduce the absolutely horrific grind that Rathuum originally was, it's still really grindy to have to do 5 Rathuums every time I want another attempt...and killing her takes quite a while since I don't have much forma or top-end mods into my better weapons yet (no forma in my Staticor yet, though it's still decently strong, and she moves around too much for my three-forma Torid to be useful there).

Not to mention, because of the grindiness of actually getting to Kela, not many people queue for her, so most of the time you're left to solo it, and if it takes a while in a group...well, it's just plain annoying solo. They need to further reduce the grind if they expect people to progress through planets in a timely fashion, nevermind getting Saryn's parts or progressing through Chroma's questline.

Agreed.

If you need top end mods hit me up in game:BlackCoMerc. I hand out Serration, Point Strike, Hell's Chambers, Split Chambers, etc. I don't need em, can't use them, so why hang on to them. 

I don't want anything in return. Just trade me some garbage common and enjoy the reduced grind.