Sedna, Merrow, & Kela - normal planet progress to Uranus - BROKEN

[JohnnyQuantum]

On 5/22/2016 at 4:36 AM, BlackCoMerc said:

 

Nice of you to offer, but one of my points is the Kela's difficulty does not seem to match the planet. I can handle all the content on Sedna OK, didn't last too long on my own against her. Other bosses did not have this spike in difficulty.  

[JohnnyQuantum]

Seriously, how do you kill Kela? I had a random team-up with a Frost, we pumped bullets into her, slashed away at her, and we seemed to be doing no damage, then we both died. Next random team-up was with a Trinity, and we were done in about 5 minutes - I don't know what the other person did, but they almost one-shoted her - I'm really curious as to how!

A big thank you to the mysterious Trinity - finally have access to Uranus!

Personally, I can't say I've enjoyed the experience of Sedna + Rathuum. A random team-up with an overpowered frame should not be the normal path to progress through the star chart.

On a positive note, apart from Kela, I've really been enjoying the rest of the game.

Edited May 29, 2016 by JohnnyQuantum

[Tullaian]

I posted in other thread as well but adding here. 

As a new player I was at Sedna/Phobos when the Rathuum event started so can definately talk about how this impacts players. I was finished the Phobos line completely eg had unlocked Ceres/Pluto and still couldn't get past Kela. 

At least I'd been able to get the 100pts needed leeching in the level 40 arena while the event was running so could try Kela but, will say she is in my view the hardest boss in the game for new players. Just looking at her stats on the wiki she has way way more HP than other similar bosses as well as 3 types of dmg required (shield, armour, flesh) plus mobility , seeker orbs, orbital cannons , targets to shoot at etc. She is much much harder than the planet she is on or the planet she is the gate keeper for especially depending on your warframe /mod pool access as a new player.

Anyway I did finally beat her solo (I like beating all the bosses solo first so you can enjoy their mechanics before getting speed rushed/leeching etc.) and have unlocked the star chart. Really enjoyed beating her too because of the difficulty so far so good. 

Now though I come back for the Chroma quest and even though that is a quest in a level 32-37 zone I need to fight level 60 executioners in a team deathmatch solo (because the nodes are all empty) multiple times for a chance to get a random drop from 14 (9 mods, 4 saryn parts and an orokin cell) that I need. It is counter-intuitive to have to fight level 60 mobs to fight a level 30 boss surely?

Then on top of that if you are stuck with the Chroma quest dialogue.. OMG it plays every single frakken mission a step you might be on for days/weeks the same few lines of dialogue between Ordis and Simulcor GAAAAH. 

Shouldn't all the new mods drop from the level 60 arena (thus giving people a reason to be playing there) and fighting in that arena not be needed to fight Kela certainly for the first time at least? I as above have unlocked the star chart and can solo the level 40 arena now at least but soloing the level 60 arena is still too hard which means in effect that Kela/Sedna now should be behind Eris in terms of difficulty which is stupid because you have to beat Kela to unlock Uranus/Eris in the first place. 

 

 

[Tullaian]

Just to add because I went back tonight and did the 60 arena solo to see if I could do it as well .. ended up 25-10 so is possible for a relatively new player albeit one who has unlocked the star chart etc as above. Solo they level up each death so by kill 25 they were around level 110 , how is a newer player supposed to face that with any sort of enjoyment on a level 25 planet? For a casual player you'd be lucky to get one attempt on Kela a night. 

Didn't get Saryn systems again.. so around we go again. The executioner mechanic much harder and slower than the actual boss fight. 

 

 

[JohnnyQuantum]

But how do you kill Kela? As I mentioned, in one game two of us were pumping bullets into her, slashing away at her, and we seemed to be doing no damage at all. How do you damage her, let alone kill her?

[Tullaian]

She is very hard in that she has a LOT more hp than other bosses so your dps has to be a lot higher. I had lots of difficulties finding gear and frame that let me beat her. As a noob finally got there with Excalibur and Exalted Blade /Dark Sword and just meleed her down with a Tiburon to shoot the spinning discs. I failed with Valkyr, Rhino and Nyx at the time which were my other choices.

I dont have enough damage mods on my primary weapon to make killing her at range easy enough to do reliably.

[Kahme]

Never went back to Sedna, and seems like there are no significant changes.

Judgement points are fine, people can live with Mutalist Alad V. No reason for Judge Kela to be free access.

There is Alad V and M. Alad V, why not Kela and Judge Kela? If the purpose is to introduce PVP, it should be optional. Forcing people to play is counter-intuitive.

Anyone with common sense can figure it out. Hence I doubt that is their real motive. And What's up with these string of updates that will only bring endless salt?

If the purpose is contrasting... that would be something to look forward to. 

[apo86]

Weeks later, still no change, no statement. I don't get it. Well, I kinda do. There probably went a considerable amount of development effort into this and if it was my project I would hate to see it being used in one event and then disappear.

But this can't be the right way to re-use the content. This is not healthy for the game. This discourages the people you need the most, new players.

[jezym]

So I got about 350 judgement points and did the assassination mission 6 times and not once did a saryn systems drop.  I saw on the wiki that while the helmet and chassis have a 38.72% chance of dropping, the systems only have a 22.56% chance.

What's up with that?  The part that people need two of is the one that has the least chance of dropping.  It would be fair if all the parts have an equal chance.

Just thinking about getting more judgement points makes me want to take a break from the game.

[Darzenis]

1 hour ago, jezym said:

So I got about 350 judgement points and did the assassination mission 6 times and not once did a saryn systems drop.  I saw on the wiki that while the helmet and chassis have a 38.72% chance of dropping, the systems only have a 22.56% chance.

What's up with that?  The part that people need two of is the one that has the least chance of dropping.  It would be fair if all the parts have an equal chance.

Just thinking about getting more judgement points makes me want to take a break from the game.

I'm having this problem with Frost's systems on Ceres. I've done 20+ runs and no systems. Those tables ar F-ed up!

[John89brensen]

On 11/5/2016 at 10:21 AM, Catoriii said:

Want to keep Rathuum in the game? Sure. Have two versions of Kela - one that drops Rathuum mods and requires Judgement points, and one that doesn't.

Agreed completely with this, im a veteran so i really had no trouble with either the boss or Rathuum, but newer players were really struggling during the event. It should not be like this, i mean i dont mind helping other players, thats kinda the point of the game, but currently some areas the game don't give low level players a fair chance. Bosses should be a challenge to fight, not a grind just to get there (my main problem also with mutalist alad v). 

On 13/5/2016 at 0:13 PM, Aemonchichi said:

this is a clear sign to new players, spend platinum for a non prime frame ot get the fock out the game, thx [DE] message understood

This is not so, if DE were to start milking someone for platinum it would be veterans, not scare newer players by putting a paywall. Even if a new player buys a complete Warframe, it would be useless without the propper mods. There is no paywall in Warframe, if anything we could argue that the lack of possibilities for new players in Rathuum thing is kind of an oversight.

Edited June 1, 2016 by John89brensen

[JohnnyQuantum]

11 hours ago, Darzenis said:

I'm having this problem with Frost's systems on Ceres. I've done 20+ runs and no systems.

Please note DE, this is one of the major problems I have with Warframe - as far as I know, this is the only game in which an item required to complete a quest is a random drop. I love Warframe and I love the quests, they are a nice change from the regular content plus I love lore. Random drops for items required to complete quests are a big disincentive to play them (and dare I say, bad game design?).

Edited June 1, 2016 by JohnnyQuantum

[Tullaian]

The thing is with a drop rate split assuming the wiki is correct of 38% helmet, 38% chassis, 22% systems then by run 10 you are at an 8% chance of not having a systems and by 15 runs you are at 2% etc. 75% of players would get the drops they needed in 5 runs or less. For the other bosses of course you just smash through them a few times and away you go for Kela of course you can't actually get to the boss without the pre-fight fights. 

As always it isn't the odds specifically it is just what happens when you are the lucky player who is in the 1%. 

I don't mind the gate it is the mechanics of it that are the annoyance and I am still stuck here trying to get the Systems drop to make the stupid Chroma quest dialogue stop :) The executioner fight solo takes quite awhile because the spawn rate is not super fast and you have to kill 25 so even though I can win the level 40 arena 25-0 I can only fight one executioner at a time and then wait for the next one to spawn. There is no (that I can tell) affinity earnt, credits or any other reward for fighting the executioners unlike running a normal mission as obviously they were originally attached to an event where the event itself provided the loot. Now though you are grinding content where the event is over and there are no rewards at all. An event mind you that assuming you wanted Saryn and Chroma you would be looking at doing even on the level 60 version probably 30+ times. 

Against that if you are a newer player the level 60 arena is much harder and the level scaling as per my note above is way harder than indicated with the mobs spawning up to level 110 even though it is flagged as level 60. I can do the level 40 effortlessly but am one shotted if not careful in the level 60. 

The scaling in general is wrong and the executioner fight needs to be relooked at in terms of how it works now that the event that drove it is over. The other thing is that Kela is for my 2c the best boss fight in the game , certainly feels like it has had the most work done on it and yet it is the one that a new or casual player is quite likely not to experience. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JohnnyQuantum]

We've gone a little off topic, but on quest items being random drops - why not make them like nav segments? So the first time you defeat the boss, or if you have the quest active, you get a guaranteed drop of the item you need to progress the quest?

Edited June 3, 2016 by JohnnyQuantum

[Tullaian]

Also to add further feedback/points of note. You can't ask for help with this one because everyone needs the 100 Judgment points to enter unlike say Mutualist AladV where just one person (the quester) has to provide the key and 3 other people can come help (if they want to) or to keyshare (so you have to only farm 1/4 of the keys).

That's another disincentive for getting this done for players who need help or to group up now that the event is over.

[my personal trauma with this one is finished as I've got my shiny new Chroma now at least]

 

[Mattoropael]

On 5/31/2016 at 10:13 PM, Kahme said:

Judgement points are fine, people can live with Mutalist Alad V. No reason for Judge Kela to be free access.

People can live with Mutalist Alad V because he does not block access to anything other than the frame he drops (Mesa).

Kela, on the other hand, blocks progress to both Uranus* and The New Strange (because Chroma requires a Saryn Systems).

 

*Not having access to Uranus also blocks these by proxy without someone giving you a taxi ride:

• Natah
  • The Second Dream
    • Spoiler

       

      • Orokin Moon
        • Earth nightmare missions
        • Earth excavator deployment
      • Focus system
      • Broken-War
      • Shadow Stalker
        • War

       

• Equinox (from Tyl Regor)
• Eris
  • The Jordas Precept
    • Atlas (from Jordas Golem)
  • Mesa (from Mutalist Alad V)

Edited June 6, 2016 by Mattoropael

[Myopic_Snow]

Here I am, MR 9 (<--with market garbage weapons) but no good gear/prime/potato/forma, a noob stuck on Sedna, without having done any of the Sedna drop sentric quests. Or have Frost. Greeeat. -_-
I forsee myself trying to beg for my clan for help (unlikely since most actives are vets that don't feel like babysitting) and trying to find other noobs willing to grind for HOURS to get Kelas drops and Uranus... I don't feel hopeful while writing this. Solo... been there tried that, not gonna happen with my gear.

Maybe I'll quit since DE doesen't seem to realize how bad the new rathuum is tacked on top off the Sedna for new players.

No amout of "Judgement Point" nerfs are going to make this grindwall any more palatable, since the Kela fight herself is one of the biggest problems. She is not fit for level 28 (or is it 26?) That fight just is not doable for a frame/weapon of level it say it is. Add to that her drops. Her loot droptable is just too big now. Event specific mods, frame parts (with low drop % already), the Uranus the segment AND some trash mods or resources? I think the wiki is incorrect on the drop chances NOW since no one has tested the percentages after the rework.

I just feel hopeless.
 

Edited June 6, 2016 by [DE]Taylor
removed profanity.

[jezym]

2 hours ago, Myopic_Snow said:

Here I am, MR 9 (<--with market garbage weapons) but no good gear/prime/potato/forma, a noob stuck on Sedna, without having done any of the Sedna drop sentric quests. Or have Frost. Greeeat. -_-
I forsee myself trying to beg for my clan for help (unlikely since most actives are vets that don't feel like babysitting) and trying to find other noobs willing to grind for HOURS to get Kelas drops and Uranus... I don't feel hopeful while writing this. Solo... been there tried that, not gonna happen with my gear.

Maybe I'll quit since DE doesen't seem to realize how bad the new rathuum is tacked on top off the Sedna for new players.

No amout of "Judgement Point" nerfs are going to make this grindwall any more palatable, since the Kela fight herself is one of the biggest problems. She is not fit for level 28 (or is it 26?) That fight just is not doable for a frame/weapon of level it say it is. Add to that her drops. Her loot droptable is just too big now. Event specific mods, frame parts (with low drop % already), the Uranus the segment AND some trash mods or resources? I think the wiki is incorrect on the drop chances NOW since no one has tested the percentages after the rework.

I just feel hopeless.
 

The whole judgement point thing is a real grind and I do agree that Kela is tougher than she should be but as a MR9 you must have some frames and weapons that can deal with her.  To reach Sedna you need to go through Jupiter where you can get Valkyr and even Rhino would be good (can make viable builds without a reactor).  I used the Dex Sybaris and Dakra when fighting her and you should have them as well if you've been playing for a couple of months.

If you can get the judgement points the assassination is not really an issue as the people coming to fight her are pretty decent.  I had to beat her 14 times just for the saryn systems to drop.

Are you farming her for the events mods and saryn parts or do you just need to get the Uranus nav segment?

[Mattoropael]

3 hours ago, Myopic_Snow said:

Add to that her drops. Her loot droptable is just too big now. Event specific mods, frame parts (with low drop % already), the Uranus the segment AND some trash mods or resources? I think the wiki is incorrect on the drop chances NOW since no one has tested the percentages after the rework.

The drops you mentioned do not interfere with each other:

• Uranus Nav Segment is a guaranteed end-of-mission reward
• Random Saryn part is a guaranteed end-of-mission reward
• Random Rathuum event mod is a guaranteed physical drop
• Twin Kohmak BP is a low-chance physical drop (?) separate from the mod drop
• Kela has not dropped non-Rathuum mod since the Rathuum event

[Kahme]

On 06/06/2016 at 3:37 PM, Mattoropael said:

People can live with Mutalist Alad V because he does not block access to anything other than the frame he drops (Mesa).

Kela, on the other hand, blocks progress to both Uranus* and The New Strange (because Chroma requires a Saryn Systems).

• • •   Reveal hidden contents

       

      • Orokin Moon
        • Earth nightmare missions
        • Earth excavator deployment
      • Focus system
      • Broken-War
      • Shadow Stalker
        • War

       

•  
• • Mesa (from Mutalist Alad V)

Kindly read my post, understand it, then quote me. Please.

[Mattoropael]

2 hours ago, Kahme said:

Kindly read my post, understand it, then quote me. Please.

Now that I did, I clearly had a severe case of brain fart. I apologize.

[Kahme]

2 hours ago, Mattoropael said:

Now that I did, I clearly had a severe case of brain fart. I apologize.

Thank you. :)

[Dawn_Star08]

I am a new player  joined about a week ago. I have no clan, few friends, low gear. I just hit Senda as well and its basically making me consider quitting already.

I mean...Whoah, what?

I was confused when I found a boss gated behind a wall of points I never heard of. What are justice points? Then I find complaint threads sort of explaining that she is put behind a wall where I have to arena vs Ai just to fight her??

I don't know how this arena works, but if it's as dreadful as people are pointing out, I am seriously considering abandoning Warframe altogether. I love it's flow, the way I can jump in and run missions, unlock planets and improve gear in an intuitive way.

If the game starts throwing up walls where I have to brutally and repetitively grind my way past it that breaks the flow completely. I don't think I'd be able to endure it before I stop and pick up a game that is actually fun :x

Can this please be removed? I don't think any other newcomers are going to enjoy it any more then I am. This is the kind of nonsense that makes new players abandon a game before they can become regular players.

Don't mess with your newcomers, yo.

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

I saw this thread before and thought DE had messed up. But I faced Kela, at only level 26, with a Forma'd Hek with Scattered Justicee. I was expecting to quickly get through and then try with a different weapon to get a better gauge for how she would play for newbs. A friend watched.

He commented on how long the boss fight was. And again, I was playing with a Forma'd Hek, with a mod that gives it 3x damage, against a boss barely higher than her minimum spawning level.

I just don't get DE sometimes.

@Dawn_Star08, for what it's worth, there really aren't comparable grindwalls. I don't know if DE is trying progression-based paywalls, but I don't think any newbie could pay around this with a reasonable amount of money, so I don't get the point. They'd need to buy or trade for frames, mods, cores, credits, and weapons, and much of that (cores and credits) is barely purchasable.

That being said, if you play on public and get high leveled players around you, you can get to Kela in about 10 missions, and they could keep you alive through the fight.

[(PSN)aruhnka]

No one has mentioned that even AFTER you best Keyla de Thaym's court the nav segment for Uranus still does not unlock.  

Fundamentally, undoubtedly broken.