Syndicate melee and mastery rank

[DarcnyssWolfe]

4 hours ago, Turnova said:

Now that the heliocor has been added, I feel that it is almost guaranteed that synoid heliocor is next. 

That necro though.... Inb4 lock

1 hour ago, Snowbluff said:

Nah, MR18 is unacceptable. It's way to high. What percentage of the playerbase is even at 12?

All the more reason for a high mastery requirement, incentive to rank up. As it stands there is no serious reason to go beyond MR12 and there is more than enough content to achieve that already twice over without counting event/timed exclusives. In other words, yes MR18 is acceptable for what would likely be the new meta melee, so get ranking.

[Snowbluff]

1 hour ago, DarcnyssWolfe said:

All the more reason for a high mastery requirement, incentive to rank up. As it stands there is no serious reason to go beyond MR12 and there is more than enough content to achieve that already twice over without counting event/timed exclusives. In other words, yes MR18 is acceptable for what would likely be the new meta melee, so get ranking.

No, ranking isn't a requirement to play the game. Even worse, Mastery Rank doesn't necessarily determine the power of a piece of equipment.

Finally, it take 360,000 (already too much) point to get to 12. It would take nearly double that to go from12 to 18. That's right, the people who are at "pretty high" are ONLY A THIRD OF THE WAY THERE.

Expecting players to get any higher than that to unlock these weapons will mean newer players will be denied a benefit of the syndicate system, and won't even be able to sell the fresh new equipment, putting them further behind.

Not to mention that mastery rank isn't pointless. Some people are simply completions, while traders will like the extra trades, and people who want to farm a little more or working with forma will get the few extra points. It's not necessary for playing the game, and artificially inflating it will only drive away players and how little game design acumen certain players have.

Mastery is even a system of leveling, but more like a checklist. This isn't WoW. How about this, you stop getting anything until you hit MR 30. You're not at "MAX LEVEL" so obviously you shouldn't be allow to have the "RAID GEAR."

[Thural]

18 hours ago, Snowbluff said:

This isn't WoW

WoW isn't the only game that has progression...

[Snowbluff]

3 minutes ago, Thural said:

WoW isn't the only game that has progression...

Warframe's progression isn't determine by player level.

[Thural]

25 minutes ago, Snowbluff said:

Warframe's progression isn't determine by player level.

and that's because whenever DE locks something by MR, people complain that they have to work to get it

[Snowbluff]

Just now, Thural said:

and that's because whenever DE locks something by MR, people complain that they have to work to get it

Yeah because MR grinding takes too long doing while doing nothing. There is a long list of reasons players would rather progress by modding and tweaking their builds instead of wasting time and funds level equipment they'll just sell.

[Thural]

Just now, Snowbluff said:

Yeah because MR grinding takes too long doing while doing nothing. There is a long list of reasons players would rather progress by modding and tweaking their builds instead of wasting time and funds level equipment they'll just sell.

so, you don't grind MR because there's no point, and you're against MR having a point because nobody grinds it?

[Snowbluff]

1 minute ago, Thural said:

so, you don't grind MR because there's no point, and you're against MR having a point because nobody grinds it?

Uh, both. There's not point to make it a requirement, and doing it should really only be a priority if you're a completionist type of player.

[Thural]

1 minute ago, Snowbluff said:

Uh, both. There's not point to make it a requirement, and doing it should really only be a priority if you're a completionist type of player.

I was pointing out your cyclic argument

Edited August 4, 2016 by Thural

[Snowbluff]

3 minutes ago, Thural said:

I was pointing out your cyclic argument

It's not cyclic.
It's a bad way for a game to progress like this. People shouldn't treat the MR score as how gear is locked anymore, because the MR requirements are getting so high that most players simply won't have the time.

People who don't want to level gear they don't want to use shouldn't have to.

[(XBOX)RVN World News]

They will probably be op with high mr requirements like 16+. Hopefully. 

[Cortanis]

On 5/11/2016 at 11:45 AM, NotAnNSASpy said:

If Telos Boltace.

Then uninstall.

Check the dev stream recap. All the syndicate weapons are already listed. Have fun with that uninstall.

 

In regards to the MR gate that they'll have. I'm betting that it will actually be 12 or lower due to most of the melee weapons in question specifically being picked because they're not used and otherwise lack stats. As with all the syndicate weapons so far, they'll receive tweaks and boosts to elevate them above their original counterparts. If nothing else, the syndicate procs alone will make them better. That Arbiter proc in and of itself can be extremely deadly due to the direct hp ticks plus the actual damage off the proc.

[Snowbluff]

3 hours ago, (XB1)Onyx Guarrd said:

They will probably be op with high mr requirements like 16+. Hopefully. 

Why hopefully? What good having these locked so high do anyone?

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

On 07/08/2016 at 11:10 AM, Thural said:

[removed by mod]

To give players who are NOT collectors reason to get high MR. MR is an important system - getting MR fast and optimal requires a monetary investment for a new player. So high MR needs to be practically desirable because it sells platinum. Right now there are people who once hit MR12 feel no reason to ever buy items for platinum or rush them for platinum to keep increasing MR steadily. This needs fixing.

Edited August 8, 2016 by [DE]Taylor
removed rude quoted comment

[Cortanis]

8 hours ago, (PS4)Lord_Gremlin said:

To give players who are NOT collectors reason to get high MR. MR is an important system - getting MR fast and optimal requires a monetary investment for a new player. So high MR needs to be practically desirable because it sells platinum. Right now there are people who once hit MR12 feel no reason to ever buy items for platinum or rush them for platinum to keep increasing MR steadily. This needs fixing.

You literally just described me prior to Saryn P release with the exception of being at MR14. Once you unlock access to all the weapons, their isn't much point to keep going. In many cases, you just can't get a lot of weapons. See prime vault here and weapons that have been pulled like machete. The only reason why I've kept playing is fashion frame and my ocd compulsion to finish out the mastery of all the items in the game. Tbh, only fashion frame has had any pull on me really spending on plat and now I've started putting out a bounty on relics for stuff that I actually need.... when I need it at this point. I'm only missing three prime weapons and I've got to get lucky with sorties for the vandals and such.

[Snowbluff]

17 hours ago, (PS4)Lord_Gremlin said:

 MR is an important system

Uh... why though? It's just a time sink. People have enough things that require a ton of money in the game and are already grinding things they want.

In fact, if someone wastes plat on something they don't plan of keeping, they screwed up. That's their real money. It shouldn't be wasted on something that has no point, and should have no point.

Edited August 8, 2016 by Snowbluff

[Cortanis]

14 hours ago, Snowbluff said:

Uh... why though? It's just a time sink. People have enough things that require a ton of money in the game and are already grinding things they want.

In fact, if someone wastes plat on something they don't plan of keeping, they screwed up. That's their real money. It shouldn't be wasted on something that has no point, and should have no point.

MR is important for a few reasons and one of them is why Draco got nuked from orbit.

The first part about MR is that it's a content gate that keeps you from just buying out a Sancti Tigris from someone in chat and blowing all the content in the game away with out actually playing. It's also in that regard, supposed to work as a bit of a system test in its own right. It's just like you know that John Doe MR5 doesn't have access to any of the weapons that will let him properly play higher tier content and as such you can make a decision on how you play in regards to him. 

MR is also there as a pacing for players and it's supposed to be a forced competency system that requires you to use the weapons and understand the system. This is one of the particulars that got Draco destroyed. Being able to effectively skip the lion share of the content with out actually playing it is exactly what the Dev's hated and found to be a problem as it meant that we had a factory for players to jump all the content to end game and learn nothing. You'll see a lot of salt on that subject as we have tons of people who try to do content with absolutely no idea how to behave doing it. This often leads to failed objectives and/or constant salt about having to babysit that person(s) in said mission. I've been in quite a few of said missions where the other players had no idea what to actually do and what units they needed to watch out for in the first place. This made some of those missions impossible to play.

One of the other big reasons why they've had the MR system has been that they've constantly talked about making it a reward for your efforts and time. Only recently have we seen any kind of real substantial payout attached to the MR system at all, but the points perks and the traces being tied into it make it quite a bit better playing the game. Case in point, I've been doing some tweaks to correct my general use Nova build into going full Slowva with it. At this point, I can equip all my mods for the build with the exception of the exilus slot mod from a fresh forma. It also helps when modding a weapon that has little or no polarity slots and then using it with out wanting to bang your head on your desk because it sucks with out those mods.

[Snowbluff]

The problem with that is that putting it past MR 12 is saying people should be playing the "use trash they don't want" game long past when they should have dropped it. Sure, maybe the high end stuff shouldn't be available immediately, but aren't syndicate and prime equipment already locked behind gates?

And the idea that time spent playing THIS game is equals competency is ridiculous. If MR exists to make sure people skill up, what about the people whose skills exceed the low tier equipment? Why are they stuck on tutorial mode?

And I've already said the other benefits should be more than enough for this digital collector bar.

I am just not making the connection between "MR is level" and "levels are relevant." Why is there a "payout" to something that has nothing put into it but literal, off mission grinding? The objective of the game is to become super powerful, adding a level requirement just adds a lovingly hand crafted pointless step.

[bubbabenali]

You can have it all, but you can't have it all now.

Deal with it. It's a basic feature of all games with rpg elements to have an arbitrary bar that fills slowly by playing and unlocks more stuff later on the line.

[Cortanis]

1 hour ago, Snowbluff said:

The problem with that is that putting it past MR 12 is saying people should be playing the "use trash they don't want" game long past when they should have dropped it. Sure, maybe the high end stuff shouldn't be available immediately, but aren't syndicate and prime equipment already locked behind gates?

And the idea that time spent playing THIS game is equals competency is ridiculous. If MR exists to make sure people skill up, what about the people whose skills exceed the low tier equipment? Why are they stuck on tutorial mode?

And I've already said the other benefits should be more than enough for this digital collector bar.

I am just not making the connection between "MR is level" and "levels are relevant." Why is there a "payout" to something that has nothing put into it but literal, off mission grinding? The objective of the game is to become super powerful, adding a level requirement just adds a lovingly hand crafted pointless step.

Don't get me wrong, I'm with you on that for the most part. You will easily out rank the tiers of gear faster than you can use them as well as about 2/3 of the weapons in the game are ether total garbage or just meh at best. We also have huge inconsistencies with the loot vs MR requirement too. To point, Nikana P is a direct upgrade to the Dragon Nikana. Dragon Nikana has a MR gate of 8 while the prime can be used at rank 0. Lex P is also one of the highest damage secondaries in the game and yet it can be used at rank 0 as well. As far as weapons in general go, I have to say that they have too many and with virtually no point to them besides implemented grind. That actually goes back to one of the original concepts of the MR system. In part, it was bragging rights. XP farming didn't used to be nearly as efficient as it is now or even a year ago. So the bragging rights part has been dropped off in favor of utility.

[Desperado14]

On 8/3/2016 at 2:29 PM, Turnova said:

Now that the heliocor has been added, I feel that it is almost guaranteed that synoid heliocor is next. 

Yeah I wrote this post on May 11, 2016.  Helicor wasn't out yet

[Mr.Holyroller]

As a veteran. I'm really tired of all garbage weapons, and I'm tired of how unrewarding (aside from gimmicky daily exp caps) mastery rank is. I would personally welcome the syndicate melee being like MR 16/18 as long as they are able to compete with current top tier melee weapons. Warframe does poorly on catering to the veteran community, and I'd like to even see some MR 20 weapons or items come out soon.

[TTV.ViccValentine]

I doubt the rank will be any higher than 12, I really do. Unless the new syndicate melee's make nikana look like an overglorifed toothpick, and the war like (well, I'll be honest, it's already kinda hard to make fun of an already pretty silly looking weapon) then I don't see why they'd require such a high rank.