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[DE]Drew

Vauban Prime & Crafting Costs

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Thanks for being open to discussing this, DE!

I've only been playing for about 7 months, so I'd consider myself a fairly new player still. I've got 27,208 Cryotic from copious void key farming buuuuuuut I spent my entire Oxium cache on a Grattler (3,500 Oxium) not long ago and have only gotten back up to 984 at the moment. You know what I do have a bunch of, though, that I'm not using for anything? Detonite Ampules (4,297), Fieldron Samples (2,458), and Nav Coordinates (4,687). Now, maybe other players spend theirs more often than I do on crafting Fieldron, Detonite Injectors, and Derelict Keys, but I think it's weird to have them only exist as components in one type of blueprint apiece.

My point being, why not cut those huge numbers down (again, in Oxium's case) and add a 5th - or even 6th - component? (I know the max is 4 per item at the moment, but I see no reason why that can't change.) So you'd have some Oxium**, some Cryotic**, and then some Detonite Ampules or Fieldron Samples or Nav Coordinates (all of which make a certain amount of sense in context - Vauban looks vaguely Corpus-like (Fieldron), uses incendiary devices (Detonite), and Nav Coordinates seem like they'd make sense as a Systems component, IMO).

**I'll leave the amount calculations to someone who's been around longer and knows more about what is and isn't considered reasonable.

Doing something like this would increase the variety of missions people would have to play (or hope for payout from their resource drones, at least), which while still constituting a grind, would at least break up the monotony somewhat.

Additionally, I really like this idea:

1 hour ago, Katinka said:

...  Cryotic needs to be available through other means.  Perhaps replacing Morphics on Europa or something? (I picked Morphics as they are available on 5 planets which seems excessive and having Cryotic as a standard drop would allow Titan/Distilling Extractors to be sent out to gather it passively as well as opening more options for active farming.) ...

Europa would be a perfect choice for it, being an ice world. A++

THAT ALL BEING SAID, I wasn't terribly surprised at the crazy crafting requirements for Vauban Prime in particular. I assumed it was your way of trying to make it less silly that it's possible to get the Prime variant sooner than the regular Vauban (damn that Chassis alert... it only ever comes up while I'm at work or out running errands...)

So yeah; that's my 2 cents. Interested to keep reading everyone else's!

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Honesstly, I feel like DE's doing a great job right now. While I hate the grinding, and RNG fatigue, they honestly are trying to help, in their own lil' way. While I don't agree witht eh nitain costs, or the drop chance of the Vauban P parts, DE has done a great job. I realize that most of us don't have the time to farm Nitain, or Oxium, and maybe some of us don't even ahve the keys or the energy to farm for the actual parts. But DE DID promise to try and help our RNG issues in the near future, so I'm counting on that. If they don't, most of us are probably done with this game. Goodbye F2P, hello P2P! But seriously, thanks for the work DE! Just try not to make ridiculous amounts of grinding.

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Look at Saryn Prime build cost vs Vauban that a pretty major jump in mats to make a frame that's only few months apart. If you go farther back it because even sillier like looking at Frost Prime build cost vs Vauban.

End of the day they not getting more powerful they still just Primes of base frames.

I mean at what point does the rate stop going up, is next prime going to be 7  Nitain a part?

 

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4 hours ago, [DE]Drew said:

If crafting is trivial, then it diminishes the value of the Primes we offer.

In other words: We artificially inflated the cost to push more people into buying it.

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2 hours ago, The_Doc said:

What worries me is that if I do change my playstyle this once and farm for him, while I'm doing that another extremely expensive item will come out, and I'll either miss out or I'll have to change my entire playstyle and become a farmer, which I never was.

Well, they said when Sibear came out that the 30k cryotic was rather a one time thing and more or less promised it wouldn't happen too often, so hopefully it will not come to that.

Valid point though yes

I guess I'm defending it so to speak, for two reasons, one is I respect those who pay and since I cannot I want them to feel like they are getting good value, and two I obviously already have the resources needed, even for Sibear I had it and I don't farm cores on any kind of regular basis, nor have I purposely went to Cerberus or wherever specifically to get Oxium.  Nitain I get when I see it, maybe twice a day a few days a week and I have more than enough.  I play roughly 5 - 8 hours a day split throughout the day, I guess that is above average but it just doesn't feel like a big deal to me.

I mean obviously its because I already have it, but even if people played half as much as I do I feel its quite feasible.  Though I certainly do hope they don't make it a constant habit.  Already they are pushing nitain into every new weapon/frame since nitain's release but beyond that vauban and sibear are sitting at the highest resource sinks.  Regardless, I concede to the valid points made by others who do not believe this to be a valid resource cost.  I refute my position no more.

It sure would be funny if the faerie frame requires 500k nano spores or something though.

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Resource sinks are needed, I don't think anyone disagrees with that. The disagreement is with the method. Like I suggest in a thread I made before it got merged into the megathread, look for other ways to reduce the costs. Make new consumables that take these resources, or alter existing consumable recipes to include them. Or both. Perhaps make some consumable that ties into this new Lunaro mode, or the new archwing missions that are coming. Consumable boosts for Lunaro (with cooldowns so they aren't OP/abusable), maybe deployable traps for the archwing racing, to make it more interesting, with only one of each equippable per mission.

As far as Vauban Prime goes, I think you may have gone a bit overboard in your aims to make it feel special. While I can't speak for anyone else, I don't have a major stockpile of these resource, and it's just tedious to farm them. That won't make it feel special. For me, I get enough from knowing that I've done the work to get the blueprints. And I don't mind having to farm a bit more if I'm missing some resources. But this isn't just some resources. This is a dedicated effort on top of the already dedicated effort of getting the blueprints from the void. And if I don't have enough keys, that's even more farming. It just gets to be too much.

Bottom line, while I agree with what you've said in general, I do not agree with the implementation. I think that my suggestions might be more acceptable to many of the other players that have expressed dislike of this policy: smaller costs on consumable gear in place of high costs on single items.

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I think this game should take some pointers from monster hunter every individual hunt matters and is engaging sure you are hoping for that ruby or mantle but the experience allows you to learn from it to be better at it the next time yet never once being cheesy. It never once feels stagnant because the challenge is always present it is not a braindead activity of stationary gameplay or sweeping overpowered strength. When farming for materials I know even if I accrue a stockpile because Im hunting for a rare material I know I will need those materials for upgrades for that weapon and not only that but I may have to fight the stronger version of said monster to get the next tier of materials, these materials are never once sharing the same pool which would lead to people doing the easiest mission possible on repeat. Maybe you should consider allowing people to upgrade their weapons power or functionality at the expense of resources that have diverging paths or maybe make a alternative when formaing a weapon you would spend the same resources to originally craft it instead of using a forma. This would help people who are waiting forever for a forma to finish crafting by instead allowing a huge sum of resources to provide the polarity they are after. 

Hopefully what am I saying wasn't a complete mess but the tldr would be you tackle surplus by big sweeping strikes which infuriates the community which made this PSA in the first place. Instead you should break apart the resources into different tiers of difficulty while also providing resource sinks that provide more personal customization if for weapons or for fashionframe that are small but ultimately add up in the end if someone wants to have everything. 

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Honestly I find this fair, how is it fun if you farm something, and can instantly build it, level it, then have it sit in your arsenal until you decide you want to play it. If you really want it you should have to work hard for it. More than 50% of people have a full time job and play this game, but if they can get on just for a few hours and BOOM have all the new items, build it, and log off not to get back on until new things are released is dumb. They want you to play their game, which the players do drop between updates, so they have to keep them stuck to their game as much as they can.

There is an app on your phone you can install to be notified of Nitain alerts, which drop about 6-8 times a day. But why would they increase that amount when they have other things to place in alerts?

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1 minute ago, Pepperdy said:

 

There is an app on your phone you can install to be notified of Nitain alerts, which drop about 6-8 times a day. But why would they increase that amount when they have other things to place in alerts?

I could be doing it wrong when I look the other day, but the DE app doesn't let you be alerted for  Nitain with out all resources coming up.

Everyone that's ok with the Vauban mats, still have not answered why hes so much more then Saryn a Prime from a few month? I mean are Primes just going to cost more and more.

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I think the biggest issue isnt so much the resource costs, but the whole picture. Many of the new prime parts are at 5% chances on rotation C, meaning you have to go 20 waves/20 mins to farm these at a 1/20 chance. If you are mildly unlucky and you get the item on your 20th attempt, thats a total of 400 minutes/400 waves, almost 7hrs of farming on a single piece. Now imagine unlucky players like me that take 60 attempts to get an item, thats nearly 20-21 hours on a single piece, then when you finally get it you have to spend a whole lot of hours again farming the resources.

If the chances wherent so weighted the resource costs wouldnt be that much of a bother. And there isnt a real reason to make it so low. If you have 10 items on a rotation they could each have 10% and it would be much fairer, but today we have rotations sometimes with less items than that and you have some items at 30-50% drop chance, making it you constantly get that item and it barely has any use as it will have a 10 ducat price and has no trade value. Or those pesky orokin cell packs, or single core rewards and even key rewards that are no use at all. Why would i play a T1 exterminate and get happy to receive a T2 Mobile Defense for example? Im tired of going 20 mins and getting 2 uncommon cores, a key and a prime part that I have another 15 of it. And then if i stay until 40 or even 60 I have the same chances at those terrible rewards even though the enemies get harder and harder, its about time you guys change the risk-reward system. GOING HIGHER SHOULD BE ABOUT BEING REWARDED, BASED ON RISK-REWARD.

Along with that, many keys are gated behind terrible drop chances also, T3 keys to be more specific. They are on a drop table where you have 6 different T3 keys along with 6 different T2 keys, completely unecessary, its about time those are also changed to only have T3s so its a bit fairer on the playerbase.

Along with all that, we have some resources that see no real use. Im sitting on 10k control modules from all the void farming, almost 3 million alloy plates, and so forth. Having high costs to dillute those resources is ok, but the issue is you guys go over the top. Vauban is 20 Nitain that is extremely hard to farm as a casual player, and then we know that the next 20 weapons will be released with Nitain making it crazy boring to farm a resource that is alert based. You guys have to slow down on those requirements, it just burns players and drives them away from the game.

I personally took a pause from Warframe because it took me over 80 T1 Mobile Defense keys to get Saryn Primes piece. I was taking an average of 10 mins per match, thats 800 mins on a really easy and boring mission. I wasnt able to farm focus as it barely gave focus, syndicate points either and with such a low flow of enemies I couldnt level up or get a nice amount of resources and mods. It was painfully boring and drove me away from the game.

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Just now, Wynn said:

I could be doing it wrong when I look the other day, but the DE app doesn't let you be alerted for  Nitain with out all resources coming up.

Everyone that's ok with the Vauban mats, still have not answered why hes so much more then Saryn a Prime from a few month? I mean are Primes just going to cost more and more.

The app I use is called warframe alerts, it allows you to customize which alerts you want to be notified of, so I took out credit alerts, and some helmet/weapon alerts, so Nitain is highlighted for me a lot.

I think they are just trying to favor their dedicated players, the ones who get on almost daily, and do all the alerts and challenges. Where as they are making their less dedicated players pay money if they really want the new items.

The only people who are complaining are the people who don't see Vauban to be worth it. Saryn, they were mad about the Nitain costs, but they love saryn so it wasn't a big issue. I had zero Nitain when Vauban was released now I'm at 10, so really it's just a matter of how badly people want it, which I believe they are trying to test out.

Like do you want to spend $70 or just spend more time on our game?

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I logged in specifically to reply to this.

 

While I understand what you're saying... I have to say, that's not a good enough excuse. You're not going to drain a veteran's players reserve of resources. That's not possible without putting up blueprints that demand literally MILLIONS of certain resources. And you can't do that without alienating the other 75% of players. Claiming that you're raising the resource costs specifically to drain veteran players, regardless of whether that's your actual intent (rather than using it as an excuse to "nudge" people towards Prime Access), is asinine. If you want to keep veteran players from losing purpose in building items, you're going to have to change the entire system, not raise the costs to absurd levels on a resource that's already a pain in the &#! to get, REGARDLESS of where you go. 20 Nitain Extracts is already pushing it, the 14K Oxium was INSANE and even 7K, while a considerable drop, is still at painful levels of farm that really make me NOT want to farm Vauban. I have over 2 THOUSAND hours in the game, I've been playing it since before Nekros was some big new thing. I'm on day 160 (give or take) on the login reward chain. I've had Vauban forever and I'm excited as hell for his Prime, he's been in need of it. I've sunk TONS of money into Warframe, I love this game to death. It's my favorite, and I've dropped more birthday money and earnings into it than I care to remember.

 

I do not want to farm Vauban Prime's parts, let alone his resources. That should say something.

Edited by Dequire
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7 hours ago, [DE]Drew said:

There are nodes like Cerebrus which are a lucrative Oxium spot - consider heading there if you're having trouble finding some.
 

thank you for posting this, however you are only further highlighting a clear issue with this. in DE's own words, you want to do away with the need for "loot caves", yet you encourage players to go to specific nodes to farm to meet this awful oxium requirement.

the issue with resource cost inflation being selected in favor of some other meaningful resource sink is that it creates a substantial divide between players. I will probably never have either the sibear or the vauban prime. I am a founder, I've been here from the start, and yet I just don't care enough to farm resources for 6 hours for a single item. furthermore, I made the explicit decision to not ever buy an item that is too much of a pain in the &#! to grind for, because I feel that incentivizing real money spending through irritation is a staple of games that will inevitably fail.

making the crafting of each item meaningful should be accomplished through some means other than making those items functionally unattainable to a portion of your players. sinking resources can be accomplished through means beyond simply ramping up the costs of items until the point where even your veterans can't afford them anymore (this is the game equivalent of hyperinflation, and typically hyperinflation is the sign of a failed state in the real world). my best suggestion for how you might deal with these stockpiles of resources is to add a convenience item, which pulls from the specific resources you want to remain scarce. something like a sentinel revive item, or an item that could be used as an extra revive for your warframe if you should use up all your initial four. something that the less resource-wealthy players can do without, without missing out on large sections of content (which is what is happening now), but which more wealthy players will happily spend their resources on because it makes their lives easier.

just my two cents. please don't continue down this road DE. sooner or later you'll be losing this founder if you do, and I'd really rather not have that happen.

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50 minutes ago, Wyrmsilver said:

making the crafting of each item meaningful should be accomplished through some means other than making those items functionally unattainable to a portion of your players. sinking resources can be accomplished through means beyond simply ramping up the costs of items until the point where even your veterans can't afford them anymore (this is the game equivalent of hyperinflation, and typically hyperinflation is the sign of a failed state in the real world). my best suggestion for how you might deal with these stockpiles of resources is to add a convenience item, which pulls from the specific resources you want to remain scarce. something like a sentinel revive item, or an item that could be used as an extra revive for your warframe if you should use up all your initial four. something that the less resource-wealthy players can do without, without missing out on large sections of content (which is what is happening now), but which more wealthy players will happily spend their resources on because it makes their lives easier.

Words of wisdom. We're seeing a lot of sizable sinks for rare resources, but when players have several hundred thousand (or million) Alloy Plates and Nanospores - not to even mention Control Modules or the research materials (Detonite ampules, etc) - that's not an issue? The substantial (rare) resource costs for recent items feels somewhat like being strong-armed into boredom if you want the new shiny. This is acceptable to an extent: platinum purchases would be pointless if things were too easily accessible, but there's a sweet spot to be found.

The Nitain cost is what bugs me most. I pull about 48h at work a week, if I'm not required over weekends, and catching Nitain alerts is troublesome, to say the least. Relying on Nitain for so many new items seems indicative of an inability to make other resources meaningful, which in turn shows, as Wyrmsilver put it, a lack of convenience items to hoover up the more common resources and render them less so.

Finally, my biggest complaint with the resource cost creep we've been seeing over the years is the simple fact that the costs are a poor representation of what you're going to get. The Stradavar, for instance, is not a particular impressive weapon, yet its crafting costs are quite substantial for such a lackluster weapon. I wholeheartedly understand that not every new toy needs to be fantastically good, and that weapons like the Stradavar are supposed to be extra rungs on the ladder for new players working towards the really powerful weaponry, but the costs don't reflect that. In all honesty, crafting costs across the board need to be considered and reworked to make more sense from a progression perspective.

Edited by SilentCynic
i am spellings gud
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I wish i could downvote this thread like on reddit.  

Yes its great you made an announcement, but its still not a good solution.  You are basically keeping it at 7k oxium and 20 nitan to encourage purchase of prime access.  what?  Did DE turn into EA overnight or something?  You should never design something in a game to encourage players to spend money to skip content instead of play the game you put your blood sweat and tears into making.  As a developer, your top priority should be people enjoying your game, not making that quick extra buck.  im not okay with this.  

You flat out told people to grind 1 map Cerebus, to get the 7k oxium needed to make the warframe.  I remember when you used to get the mats you need to make items through casual play of just enjoying the game.  The resources were an extra you earned while playing.  When i play a mission like an exterminate or a 10-20 min survival i tend to walk away with 100'ish oxium tops.  Thats it.  Yes by exploiting 1 game mode on a particular map you can cheese your way to higher oxium gains, but thats playing 1 map non stop a specific way with specific tactics (Draco'ing it) to do this.  Which you have said in the past you dont like how the Draco Grind exists.  Now you tell people if they want the 7k to get it, go exploit the map.  Really?  

20 Nitan.  Why?  this is steep as well and it makes no sense that it should cost this much.  Just because you want to prolong people getting it, this is not the way to do that.  People who do not have the time to be at thier computer all day to watch the alert trackers cant get that very easy.  There is 4 nitan's a day at random times through the day, if someone works or has school or any sort of life, lets say they are not at home from 9am to 5pm and sleep from 10pm to 6am, that leaves 5 hours at night and 3 hours in the morning to hope to get 1-2 nitan alerts to get that 20 you need.  This is a terrible way of doing this.  I was find with like 6 nitans to make a frame or even 9 i thought was "reasonable" but 20, are you serious?  

Im not even going to talk about how last night i used around 30 keys and got 0 parts of Vauban Prime yet.  Seriously, whose idea was it for these drop chances...

This warframe has only 50 more armor and 25 more shields and you want people to spend that kinda resources on it?  At this point, i am boycotting Vauban Prime and will continue to use my Standard Vauban because that is too extreme of costs compared to anythign else youve released. This is twice as expensive as Saryn Prime who was just released.  i refuse to spend all my time farming 7k oxium and 20 nitan to make this frame, there is no justifiable reason for these costs other than what you have just said to everyone, to encourage people to buy prime access instead.  No.  Ive played warframe off and on since beta and that is unacceptable business practice for a game company.  The only companies who pull that crap is EA and i would hope you dont want to aspire to be like EA in your endeavors.  

So yeah, i do not accept your reason for such inflated costs for this warframe and im really dissapointed in your judgement as a company on this.  Dont screw over the little man with your development choices and be like Electronic Arts, You're better than that DE.  

EDIT: It should be noted too that this is the first time ive posted on the forums in my 3 years of playing.  This decision was that bad that i broke a 3 year streak of keeping my mouth shut and letting you run your game your way. Keep that in mind.  Lets not see this be the standard for future decisions DE.

Edited by MillenniumKing
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As a fairly new player, although admittedly an avid one, Vauban Prime is so far outside of my capability to get that I'm not even going to bother with it. While the Oxium is trivial to collect even for me as a new player, the nitain is rare and I already have my nitain saving up for other more desirable warframes.

And I'm OK with it. I'm OK with it because I'm a new player and as far as I can tell the game is still in beta.

In any game resource balancing is difficult problem. There's a very fine line between a resource being too much of a grind and a resource being another pointless number you never really take notice of. And there are MANY resources in the game to balance, and this is where we see the first problem.

In order to make Vauban Prime meaningful to build, which is their goal, their only option was to use a new resource, or use a severely constrained resource. Adding a new resource will only make balancing resources MORE difficult. Out of their constrained resources(nitain and argon) only one can be obtained from a different avenue. Let's be honest, if they made it cost 10 argon crystals, most of the people spending time farming the parts would have been able to craft it, defeating the meaningful build, and making it difficult to access for anyone who spent plat to buy it from players, which in turn hurts that part of the economy. Nitain would be the only option, but even that is a resource that long time players could have been stockpiling.

As for the people who think that DE has put in these extreme costs in order to force people to get prime access for this warframe, look at it like this. Prime access is as much a way for them to make money as it is for you to get something without having to spend time playing the game. If the resource cost was trivial for Vauban Prime, if the drop rate for it's parts were trivial, then for a majority of the long term players getting Vauban Prime would have been trivial. $80 is not a trivial amount.

tl;dr
Resources be hard yo. Their choice, as frustrating as it may be, was made with the interest of meaningful gameplay in mind, and with the wobbly resource inflation issue it was the best they could do.

 

 

Edited by gingetsuryuu

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8 hours ago, [DE]Drew said:

When Vauban Prime Access was released with a 14k Oxium building requirement we realized, as players ourselves, that these values were extreme. After reading through your comments, the decision to reduce the Chassis cost by half was made and as a result now requires 7k Oxium to craft. While you’ve expressed that this is still a substantial amount, we were happy to hear that the majority of you feel this to be a fair compromise. There are nodes like Cerebrus which are a lucrative Oxium spot - consider heading there if you're having trouble finding some.

 

@Bold

Any player would've seen that that it was way too much before the frame got released, I find it kind of hard to believe that anyone who frequently plays the game would agree with that Oxium cost. Only after it was released it was cut in half. The oxium cost to obtain every single Warframe weapon and Warframe in the game (bar Vauban chassis) is 6250, that is less than the chassis for ONE Warframe, it's ridiculous. I don't understand how having a component (not even a full warframe) use more than double of a resource (that is widely used) than every other weapon and frame in the game combined was given the approval for release.


@underlined

This isn't a solution for the resource creep and it also directly clashes with what was said a few Devstreams ago, apparently DE wants to get rid of 'loot caves' because they don't like the effect on the game. Maybe it would be less harmful to players if other ways (that don't gate player progress) were considered to combat stockpiles of resources.

 

Now to the biggest problem with Vauban Prime. Dilution of the drop tables. It has been said many times that the devs don't like dilution in the drop tables, but all their actions seem to go against that. Take a look at all of the Void drop tables (especially A & B rotations of Survival and Defence) with all the free space to add stuff, just look at any Survival rotation A & B. New prime parts are being constantly shoved into rotation C with 5% drop rate when there is tons of room for them elsewhere. Now, the supposed reasoning behind Prime Vault was to make room for new Primes, if we are expected to believe that (I don't think anyone does) then why are the Void drop tables as they are now?
Now it was said awhile ago that you guys wanted to decrease the grind but all the recent actions have gone against that notion. Xiphos (0.5% drop rate for parts), Knux research cost, Sibear and almost every weapon post U18 has required either Nitain or Argon (or both).

I think you guys just need to be clear and say that the grind for new Prime gear is to increase sales for Prime Access, or not state a reason at all. I hope this is actually the reason because otherwise it would mean that DE thinks that they are reducing grind.

Edited by Jussler
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13 minutes ago, Jussler said:

I think you guys just need to be clear and say that the grind for new Prime gear is to increase sales for Prime Access, or not state a reason at all. I hope this is actually the reason because otherwise it would mean that DE thinks that they are reducing grind.

They stated their reasons as to make crafting it meaningful. If they didn't make the resource cost what they did they might as well have said. "Alright guys, everyone who has been playing for a year gets Vauban Prime for FREE! The rest of you need to spend hours working towards it or fork out $80." Because that is what it would have boiled down to.

What they did instead is practically make it unobtainable by new players unless they fork out $80. But that's fine, Vauban's non primed version is pretty much out of reach for new players as it is. It's clearly not a "easy access for new players" warframe. Have you considered how long a person needs to be playing just to get the Vauban NON prime?

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, [DE]Drew said:

If an item is too expensive, nobody will want to bother making it.

See, the thing is, it's not that "expensive" as such is a problem, it's the "is all this grind worth it?" question.

Now, let's take me, for example. MR20 with plenty of frames and weapons to run high-level Corpus interceptions easily. Got regular Vauban, too. Fashion-frame aside, getting Vauban Prime is not something I immediately need. It's not much of an upgrade - shields and armor are nice, but not THAT nice to excuse the long, boring hours I'd have to spend farming the Oxium I need. Sorties, prime junk for Baro and occasional Invasions seem like a better time investment. So Vauban P in its current state is not really appealing to long-time players - aside from the frantic collectors, maybe.

Now let's look at the new players. Let's say, star chart unlocked, maybe even a potatoe'd frame and a weapon or two. Getting the blueprints alone is a chore that is likely to take a while. And resource requirements are plain horrid, especially considering a scenario where you do not have access to Necros/Pilfering Swarm Hydroid/Ore Gaze Atlas. It *will* put new players off. And with Prime Access live, it will look as a rather blatant cash grab, not an "opportunity to support the game".

 

TL;DR: Things that are tricky to get are fine. Phoenix Intercept was fine. Overtake was fine.  Adding zeroes to resource cost like you have a bag of them to make the grind insufferable is NOT fine, it puts things into "not really worth bothering with" category, unless it's something amazing.  Hint: A single Prime frame is NOT amazing enough to farm this much. It just ain't fun anymore.

 

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If DE is asking for this Kind of crafting requirements then maybe they aren´t making enough Money.

So they try to give a Little push so that Players may be more motivated to buy Prime Acess to not have to farm as much.At least that´s what I think could be Happening.

Since you can farm almost everything and you can sell stuff for plat and then buy it from other players,there is no Need to put any real Money in the game.

I don´t know about other Players but I put Money in this game before trading but now with trading I never needed to buy more plat anymore.

If there are many Players like me then I can understand they aren´t making enough Money and Need to find ways to make more.

There is such a fine line between reasonable amount of farm/grind and unreasonable amount that it surely must not be easy for them to Balance it out.

Too easy to farm equals no real Money.Too hard to farm equals maybe less Players (cause they quit) but more real Money coming in.They don´t want to lose Players so again with the balancing it out... must not be easy.

Not defending them or attacking them but just trying to understand them.

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9 hours ago, [DE]Drew said:

First, acquiring new items needs to be meaningful.

Currently it isn't. In anyway whatsoever and actually screws over players like me who take long breaks between content droughts. (Yeah Nitain sucks)

It's either cash or dealing with RNG.

Tie new weapon BPs into challenges like "beat every boss with melee" or "Do 30 minutes of T4 survival with nothing but a Spectra" something along the lines that tie new gear into actual gameplay feats and not random numbers.

And if you want to drain resources from the community either make a community wide project that everyone can put their nano spores into or give us cosmetics that grow in size and intricacy the more you pump resources into it.

For example a Syandana that grows into intricate armor after you've given it 5 million nano spores. (And yes I have 5 million nano spores and I know people with MORE than 5 million nano spores.)

CHALLENGE US LONG TIME PLAYERS. GRIND ISN'T A CHALLENGE. 

Edited by Ziegrif
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8 hours ago, Arrjo said:

It seems to me that some players can't think about getting a new weapon or warframe in more than just a couple of hours.

Come on, 7k oxium isn't too much if you don't specifically make your goal to craft vauban right now. You have literally months to get blueprints and resources, what's the point of such a rush? Want to get him instantly? Then support DE and buy Prime Access. Can't afford or just don't want to buy it? Stop thinking of it like it's mandatory, just enjoy the game and sooner or later you'll get resources to build it.

But no, some people complain that X is too expensive to build, and then they force themselves to farm for 10 hours, build it and complain that there's nothing left to do in the game.

but even if you wait patiently there is a still a chance that you will never get the item XD

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Thank you. However, the main problem isn't the oxium but the nitains. I wouldn't mind grinding/farming for thousands of oxiums in maps like Cerberus, but nitain is just impossible to farm outside of some random alerts...

As for gathering mountains of other resources being hard on new players, I personally believe it's fine since new players shouldn't be using prime things right so early in the game. Although there's prime access for them to do so, it's only temporarily. Being new players and not having that much resources goes hand in hand anyways.

Edited by SunsetChaos

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4 hours ago, Archeyef said:

Make new consumables that take these resources

A thousand times yes, there are so many possibilities for consumables we haven't even considered yet.

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15 minutes ago, Revoltado said:

a Little push so that Players may be more motivated to buy Prime Acess to not have to farm as much.At least that´s what I think could be Happening.

Push who into what, exactly?

Me, I don't buy PA. Ever. I just don't see the point.

Pay some $ to NOT play the game? Might as well dump several hundred bucks into the game, buy every weapon and frame with plat and delete it, knowing you have little else to accomplish. I do buy color palletes. And accessories. And skins, especially the deluxe ones (skipped Strega Trinity, tho, it looks too weird for my taste). But not the in-game stuff, it just doesn't make sense. 

Push new players into buying? The moment new players are made to think they are forced to pay, they come one big step closer to becoming ex-players. It just doesn't work that way.

 

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