Lets just assume the inevitable about new items

[Sir.X]

In one sense, the amount of Nitain and Oxium required to craft Vauban is acceptable because there is very few blueprints that require those resources.

On the other hand, the amount of time required to get those amounts can take weeks, even a full month if one is busy with life,work,etc etc.

So, if and when more of theses "stockpiled resources" are added in large amounts into blueprints, do you think there should be more ways to acquire them?

[(XBOX)SwagScapegoat]

I have yet to get Nitain in this manner but they have made it obtainable through Reactor Sabotage Caches.  Ran about 15 and gave up as another Nitain alert came up.

Can the drop rate me increased?  Would make me happy.

[Rakosta_Kai]

This is a Pay for Convenience game.

You spend money or You spend time.

IMO, I think Oxium is probably the only resource that is needed in large quantities but doesn't drop in commensurate enough quantities to not be onerous.

Everything else seems to drop in reasonable enough quantities that adding more ways to get them would trivialize the time expenditure.

The time expenditure has to be meaningful or there is no alternate convenience in actually purchasing the item. 

[Vifany]

Just now, shadow18715 said:

do you think there should be more ways to acquire them?

Both yes and no, DE Steve frequently told about "progression" and I see it in this inflation of build costs. Sibear, Booben Prime and other stuff like this needs more resources wich you gonna obtain through that "progression". This luxury items looks like true high-level content, not by power but by dificulty of acquiring. Anyway when you farm something you will got some "garbage-type" of resources. Generaly I like this "Alertium Extract" idea, srsly it feels much more interesting hunting down that alerts on weekend or waiting it as gift from RNGesus. So as result no additional time spended, but still T cant get this items as fast as Braton for example. However, game still needs some new ways to obtain anything, like new modes, maps, mechanics, locations with higher drop amounts, but with saving that "feel of rarity" for some sort of items.
 

Spoiler

Sori four mai ingrish

 

[Hypernaut1]

A MONTH to get resources you say! The HORROR!!!

[AsuraKyu]

Anyone starving for oxium must've never played this before they increased the amount of oxium dropped. Previously if we were hit with a 7k oxium build requirement I don't think too many would've opt'd into building vauban period, it was for this very same reason people didn't build zepyr and she was somewhere around 1/6 his cost. Just take a nekros to Ceberus run 4 rounds and profit.

On the topic of Nitain, this honestly just comes down to how you use it. Seeing as it isn't exactly a readily available resource you have to prioritize your usage of it which I find to be a good thing personally. If you want vauban more than you want wukong then it should be a pretty clear choice of what you number one option and your number 2 option is.

[(XBOX)ATLongshot]

30 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

This is a Pay for Convenience game.

You spend money or You spend time.

IMO, I think Oxium is probably the only resource that is needed in large quantities but doesn't drop in commensurate enough quantities to not be onerous.

Everything else seems to drop in reasonable enough quantities that adding more ways to get them would trivialize the time expenditure.

The time expenditure has to be meaningful or there is no alternate convenience in actually purchasing the item. 

What this guy said.  Oxium is the only one I see that is a problem in the way that it is currently implemented.  Either the drop rate needs to increase or more enemie need to drop it. 

[Husla]

Oxium shouldnt be a problem to anyone anymore. They drop from 5-15~ with a Nekros, you can get lots of them. Avg you're looking to get is 500-1k. Which is very good. It's like farming plastids.

 

Reactor Sabotage is just not fun. Abysmal drop rates to Nitain/Xiphos parts. 5% chance per each cache found for Nitain imo is a good way to start.

[(PSN)Elvenbane]

13 minutes ago, (XB1)AtlongsterATL said:

Either the drop rate needs to increase or more enemie need to drop it. 

I'm pretty sure oxium is a guaranteed drop already; if you kill the osprey, you get around 10 oxium every time. I'll admit 7k sounded like a lot to me until I checked and saw that I'd accumulated 30k. The only time I ever farmed oxium was to build Zephyr back before the the drop bundle size was increased...now that was a grind.

[Obviousclone]

"it's not problematic, just bring nekros to cerberus"

 

sooo

 

in order to have a fair/decent shot at getting enough oxium to even craft vauban, you need to not only grind for about a week on cerberus,

but before that you also need to grind for nekros??

 

is that seriously the logic that let's you accept the resource costs here? "oh it's actually well designed, just bring this mandatory frame so the costs aren't so bad".

 

I'm all for resource sinks, but oxium is not a resource that needs a sink

where's rubedo sink? where's Ferrite sink? where's control module sink? Why is there only 1 blueprint for me to use fieldron samples when I have 4000 of them? why are we not taxing the resources that players have in so much abundance, that they aren't even considered resources anymore?

as it stands, there's only one resource in the game that has good sinks. Which is credits. There are a ton of ways to burn it if you have it in excess so no one really complains about having too many. Sure it might be inefficient (mod transmutation, fusing junk mods like ghost into a prime mod, trading), but it gives players with way too many credits a way to empty their coffers so they actually start to care about the credits they have.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Obviousclone

[Rakosta_Kai]

20 minutes ago, (PS4)Elvenbane said:

I'm pretty sure oxium is a guaranteed drop already; if you kill the osprey, you get around 10 oxium every time. I'll admit 7k sounded like a lot to me until I checked and saw that I'd accumulated 30k. The only time I ever farmed oxium was to build Zephyr back before the the drop bundle size was increased...now that was a grind.

It's only a guaranteed drop if you manage to kill the Osprey.

34 minutes ago, Husla said:

Oxium shouldnt be a problem to anyone anymore. They drop from 5-15~ with a Nekros, you can get lots of them. Avg you're looking to get is 500-1k. Which is very good. It's like farming plastids.

That presumes you are using, or farming with, a Nekros.

 

That's my point... Oxium asks for large quantities but chances at it tend to be conditional. 

[(PSN)Elvenbane]

17 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

It's only a guaranteed drop if you manage to kill the Osprey.

That presumes you are using, or farming with, a Nekros.

That's my point... Oxium asks for large quantities but chances at it tend to be conditional. 

Yes, you have to kill the Osprey...if you're finding that difficult, try farming with Nova, Molecular Prime makes it trivial (Nova nō ka ʻoi). You get 9-12 Oxium per-Osprey according to the wiki, that sounds right to me since I normally get bundles of 10. It may be conditional, but the conditions aren't onerous by any means. Also not sure why you're against using a Nekros if you want to farm a lot of Oxium quickly?

[_jorgi_]

You're talking about oxium... wait for new AW contetnt/gear and then you will cry for tellur ;-)

Somebody already said this, it's the way DE earns money. We need to understand. and accept.

I don't suppose it has something to do with progression. Progression is not farming, And to build new gear we need to farm. Or to pay. It's easy deal.

Now DE have an impact on the fact how we farm. We can enjoy it or hate it. Or something in between. Now it's pain and to make it easy is against DE business.

On the other hand too hard farming (either too much time needed or RNG prayers needed) is against DE business as well because might lead to rage quit.

 

At the moment I think they maintain quite good balance, even if there are many dissapointments on the forum. Whole players community is not the forum, DE has their stats form the servers and knows exactly what's going on.

 

Edited May 25, 2016 by _jorgi_
minor spellling

[_jorgi_]

33 minutes ago, (PS4)Elvenbane said:

. Also not sure why you're against using a Nekros if you want to farm a lot of Oxium quickly?

Nekros is not very helpfull with Ospreys as they rarely leave corpses to desecrate.

[Misgenesis]

Im not bothered by the resource costs, im bothered by the locking of parts behind endless missions with pitiful drop rates. At least with resources i can get what i want.

That and locking them behind less common keys like T3 Capture, i mean for gods sake Dual Kamas Prime came out a long ago now and Mogamu still hasnt made a video about it presumably because he doesnt have it.

[(PSN)Elvenbane]

50 minutes ago, _jorgi_ said:

Nekros is not very helpfull with Ospreys as they rarely leave corpses to desecrate.

Thanks for the clarification. I don't use Nekros (I find desecrate tedious); someone else suggested using him and I just assumed it was beneficial. As I mentioned earlier, I haven't actually had to farm Oxium, I just seem to end up with lots of it playing normally (I have never bought a resource booster either).

[Rakosta_Kai]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Elvenbane said:

Yes, you have to kill the Osprey...if you're finding that difficult, try farming with Nova, Molecular Prime makes it trivial (Nova nō ka ʻoi). You get 9-12 Oxium per-Osprey according to the wiki, that sounds right to me since I normally get bundles of 10. It may be conditional, but the conditions aren't onerous by any means. Also not sure why you're against using a Nekros if you want to farm a lot of Oxium quickly?

With respect....I feel you have missed the point.

My assertion is objectively viewed from the lens of a new player and what their needs and capabilities would be.

I do not personally need Oxium... I have Oxium. I also don't suffer from issues with Killing Ospreys. 

I am saying that is onerous for the lowest common (the new/average player) denominator to farm for it efficiently.

I say this merely because it is onerous for the lowest common denominator to farm it.

That new player that needs Oxium will have to be content to get it in quantities of 100-300 or so if they are lucky.

Of course, if they get really lucky, they might stumble on to Cerberus and manage to get 800-1200 Oxium in 4 or so rounds.

...That would be awesome except for the fact that it's a node and nodes often stand empty nowadays.

The average new player is going to have to circuit Venus alot and will still only end up with a few hundred per circuit.

...That's too low.

I have no doubts that the determined player can acquire enough to build Vauban Prime in a month regardless... They may never want to see another Oxium again by that point though if they started from 0.

[Schnickens]

I guess the new player doesn't get the brand new shiny that they "need" right away.  It is a shame that there is no other gear available to them to progress and enjoy.  

[(PSN)Elvenbane]

7 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

With respect....I feel you have missed the point.

My assertion is objectively viewed from the lens of a new player and what their needs and capabilities would be.

I do not personally need Oxium... I have Oxium. I also don't suffer from issues with Killing Ospreys. 

I am saying that is onerous for the lowest common (the new/average player) denominator to farm for it efficiently.

I say this merely because it is onerous for the lowest common denominator to farm it.

That new player that needs Oxium will have to be content to get it in quantities of 100-300 or so if they are lucky.

Of course, if they get really lucky, they might stumble on to Cerberus and manage to get 800-1200 Oxium in 4 or so rounds.

...That would be awesome except for the fact that it's a node and nodes often stand empty nowadays.

The average new player is going to have to circuit Venus alot and will still only end up with a few hundred per circuit.

...That's too low.

I have no doubts that the determined player can acquire enough to build Vauban Prime in a month regardless... They may never want to see another Oxium again by that point though if they started from 0.

Since it doesn't affect you personally I'm not sure why you feel the need to try to weigh in from the perspective of a new player, they can speak for themselves.

Where you lost me is with your assertion that new players need any Oxium at all. I was a new player once too, and I remember having lots of things to do and figure out and none of it required Oxium. The first time I ever became aware of Oxium was when I needed a few more to have the 20 needed to remove the Grustrag Bolt.

As you say, a new determined player farm enough to get Vauban if they really what him...I don't see anything wrong with that.

[Hypernaut1]

14 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

With respect....I feel you have missed the point.

My assertion is objectively viewed from the lens of a new player and what their needs and capabilities would be.

I do not personally need Oxium... I have Oxium. I also don't suffer from issues with Killing Ospreys. 

I am saying that is onerous for the lowest common (the new/average player) denominator to farm for it efficiently.

I say this merely because it is onerous for the lowest common denominator to farm it.

That new player that needs Oxium will have to be content to get it in quantities of 100-300 or so if they are lucky.

Of course, if they get really lucky, they might stumble on to Cerberus and manage to get 800-1200 Oxium in 4 or so rounds.

...That would be awesome except for the fact that it's a node and nodes often stand empty nowadays.

The average new player is going to have to circuit Venus alot and will still only end up with a few hundred per circuit.

...That's too low.

I have no doubts that the determined player can acquire enough to build Vauban Prime in a month regardless... They may never want to see another Oxium again by that point though if they started from 0.

Personally, i still feel that 100-300 oxium per run is great for a new player. Dont people play FOR the grind? 

I dont know why you're feeling sorry for them. 

[Sixty5]

From a player perspective, Nitain is a stupid idea. 

If I need Nitain, I am not going to play the game, I am going to do something else while watching my alert feed, then run a 5 minute mission when it pops up before going back to doing something else. 

It doesn't add any extra engagement to the game, in fact, I'd say it does the opposite. Contrast this with Argon, which I find to be a great idea. It's a resource that you can get pretty easily and actively farm for, but it is unable to be stockpiled. If I want to build something that takes argon, I need to run some voids, and if I want to run voids, I may as well try for some parts as well, and if I am doing that I'll get some friends along too. 

Cryotic exists because DE needed a reason for people to play Excavation, and Oxium is something that was thematically cool initially, but then got tacked onto every damn item because it is hard to farm. 

Meanwhile alloy plate, nanospores and control modules keep piling up. 

I'd love to see the ability to choose how we build weapons. Like being able to use 100k ferrite instead of 500 oxium. 

 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

the problem is that DE are targeting the wrong resources. not everyone has enough Oxium, Tellurium or Nitain at any given time, but I can say with almost certainty that anyone who has played for a month or so on and off will likely have an abundance of Alloy plate, Nano Spores and Salvage. why do we not have sinks for these common resources that are acquired passively and just gather dust while we worry about things like Nitain?  it's almost Like DE don't seem to know what A sink is...

and a LOT more could be done to improve Nitain, since DE don't plan to remove it from the game. here's just a few of many suggestions:

- put it in spy vaults

- increase Alert regularity

- make it a rare drop form tougher enemies, or Eximus units

- make it available Via Syndicate Standing

- add more difficult alerts, maybe Nightmare ones which award 2 or 3 Nitain upon completion

- research a new machine for your clan Dojo that creates Nitain periodically, but requires a lot of other resources to build.

- add bundles of 5 or more Nitain into Sorties, maybe have them replace the 25 cores we all hate so much.

- put Nitain bundles on Treasury ships

- put it in some of the Derelict missions that nobody plays

and that's just off the top of my head. I could go on, but then I'd be here all week. I'm fine with grinding Oxium, I'll even tolerate Cryotic, but Nitain is just BS in it's current state.

 

[Hypernaut1]

They don't use common resources because they're common and no one ever puts thought into  getting  them.

[arch111]

At least there are Alerts that are guaranteed drops. Unlike the Void or certain enemies that drops things we really want and need but at the mercy of rolling some dice.

I find Argon to work rather well. It sucks when rng screws you over makig you waste Void Keys, but you allways walk away with something from the Void.

I need to craft with Argon? Farm like mad untill I have enough.

Nitain? I do the Alerts when I happen to be on. The side effect  of this is that I ignore things that need Nitain and do other things.

So I will soon have forgotten about Vauban, and then something new will come along and by then I will have Nitain in my storage.

[Rakosta_Kai]

13 minutes ago, (PS4)Elvenbane said:

Since it doesn't affect you personally I'm not sure why you feel the need to try to weigh in from the perspective of a new player, they can speak for themselves.

Which is why I said that I felt you missed the point.

FWIW, I am not advocating on anyone's behalf... I am saying that viewed objectively Oxium is onerous to farm. 

I don't look at anything merely from my own perspective... That's a myopic way of looking at anything.

14 minutes ago, (PS4)Elvenbane said:

Where you lost me is with your assertion that new players need any Oxium at all. I was a new player once too, and I remember having lots of things to do and figure out and none of it required Oxium. The first time I ever became aware of Oxium was when I needed a few more to have the 20 needed to remove the Grustrag Bolt.

As you say, a new determined player farm enough to get Vauban if they really what him...I don't see anything wrong with that.

Probably because the majority of stuff that can be built with oxium doesn't require a high mastery rank. Highest I can think of is 8 in the D. Nikana. 

Imma point you back to my original assertion cause I think you missed it.

4 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

IMO, I think Oxium is probably the only resource that is needed in large quantities but doesn't drop in commensurate enough quantities to not be onerous.

Hope that helps you.

 

23 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Personally, i still feel that 100-300 oxium per run is great for a new player. Dont people play FOR the grind? 

I dont know why you're feeling sorry for them. 

I hear ya...

I'm not feeling sorry for them insomuch as I am saying that the amount of effort doesn't yield a commensurate reward when it comes to Oxium.

My original post is not a call to action so much as it is an objective statement.