Jump to content
[DE]Rebecca

Dev Workshop: Passives, Volt, Mag & More!

Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, TotallyLagging said:

You make things that are bad better. That's what you're supposed to do if you handle game balance. Deliberately keeping something useless shows that they have absolutely no idea what to do with Oberon.

I can't link the post by Furor (EQ raider now WoW creative director) about his threat/rant against SOE without getting permanently banned, but it's similar in the disgust.

Don't know why devs hate Paladin toons so much, but wow, even Blizzard didn't go so far as Paladin-Druid Fairie King from Uranus that befriends furries!!!

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Kiradaman said:

it would be nice if the root effect of it was removed so we could move around like other frames with similar abilities.

SoonTM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You know the problem with making passives that are thematic-only? You get underwhelming stuff like Oberon's passive.

Seriously, what? Wildlife is worthless and doesn't even exist on most maps, spawning in sets of, at most, one, unless you find feral kubrows. Even then, it's a temporary benefit of a measly twenty seconds. he should have had something else like making radiation procs do AOE damage or whatever.

  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Question DE about Ember

- is her passive lie this because there aren't that many ways to get hit by fire in the game? I mean there's napalms and napalm bombards and some enemies here and there but I think it's a good passive.

 

Loki's Passive doesn't seem very useful though. I personally never wall cling too long because of the poor FOV it provides but I don't see the point. That's basically camping.

MAybe something like if Loki is about to be hit by a lethal blow , he automatically switches places with his decoy ,regardless of range , would be more appropriate.

 

I think all the passives should have some link with the frames powers. a 10x wall cling doesn't synergise with his other powers imo.

 

 

For hydroid I suggest a double passive

  • the one you suggested
  • AND : hydroid has a chance to summun a small frontal tidal wave on each melee charge attack with a heavy weapon  ragdolling enemies into oblivion.

Seems more powerful and could make hydroid a CC melee frame

 

 

 

 

 

 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Nova: When Nova is down, she will knock down enemies in a 6 meter Radius

 

Nova might as well not have any passive if this is settled upon. No warframe's passive should be based off being downed at all unless it's a self-revival mechanic. For Nova think atomic manipulation on a minor scale.

An example of a useful Nova-themed passive would be something like the ability to highlight all enemies through walls within 50m for all friendlies to see by exciting their atoms.

Another simple example would be the ability to pass through all enemies.

  • Upvote 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think itd be a great idea to use waypoints to help aim abilities. If volts "opt-in" was dropped each players specific waypoint then it might not matter if you were behind everyone. For example, waypoint 1 is volt and he uses speed. now only player 2 has a waypoint up besides volt, so for player 3 and 4 its dropped at volts waypoint but for player 2 its dropped at his waypoint. 

 And then other abilities like vauban when youre dropping vortices using perpetual vortex so that you dont accidentally create a seperate vortex. Atlas could spawn his rumblers at a waypoint if he has one up so that he could send them to aid and ally. Chromas effigy could move to the waypoint when it is casted. Hydroids 1st and 4th could be easier to aim using this too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, (PS4)WiiConquered said:

I assume you've heard enough about the current frames' passives by this point. I find your note on the bottom interesting, about taking a look at the most broken of Warframe abilities. I'd imagine some abilities like Invisiblity, Exaulted Blade, the Mirage Disco Ball thing, Blessing, Energy Vampire, and possibly Snowglobe, Hysteria, Sonar, and MPrime will get looks. I think many of them should, but here's the thing:

 

You must take looks at many of the enemies alongside them. Try to do level 100 eximus sorties without the abilities above and ones like them, and see how frustrating they are. See how unfun it is to get sniped by a Ballista you didn't know was there, or to get killed by juggernaut spines that clearly missed you, or have all your enemy stolen by a Parasitic Eximus that is still a tile away, or get grappled by a scorpion that shot straight backwards. Point is, and @[DE]Rebecca I'm sure you encounter this a lot, many enemy attacks feel like they're out of our control to avoid despite being highly punishing.

 

Consider turning down enemy count and lowering the sortie requirements. Give Ballistas red dot sights so we can see where they're shooting. Either let us kill parasites to get the energy back or make them ranged enemies that have to damage us to get it. Give scorpions a cone they can hit us with. Stop Sappers from being able to deploy multiple rings at once. Prevent Bombard rockets and scorpion and ancient hooks from being able to keep tracking outside a 90 degree cone. Make toxic and magnetic Eximi melee enemies that cause their procs by hitting us, not just being around. Consider making Bursas more like the original concept. Bring back manics, but without the tackle kill. Use more manic bombards and hyenas.

 

Or don't. But in some way or form, give all the enemy factions a pass when you do so for the frames. Otherwise there are going to be a lot of understandably frustrated (along with the irrationally salty) players.

Thank you. Thank you. I've been saying this, too. But I disagree with your solution of straight-up nerfing enemy units. Having their CC abilities follow stricter, more predictable rules is good. But a lot of these problems come from poor AI and gross outdated animations. More than anything, I want existing enemy units to get new abilities, and smarter AI.

First off, reduce bullS#&$ in general by cutting all enemies' fire rate by about 15% when the targeted Tenno doesn't have LOS with that enemy. Clean up enemy animations, such as reloading. Enemies are inexplicably immune to some forms of CC while reloading, and the immunity lasts during their transition back to firing stance. The beginning and end of these transitions are unclear. Transitions must to be interruptible, whether or not reload animations are. It needs to be clear when you can/can't affect targets. Some kind of shield buffer that prevents damage from overflowing from max shields into health would be nice, too. It'd prevent being one-shot from max health/shields.

Melee targets need evasive abilities that make them tougher to target. For instance, Scorpions, shouldn't be allowed to grapple within, say, 15 meters, and the grapple should have a much narrower range. If they need to close a gap, they should have a sprinting attack with a clear telegraph before they start sprinting. Make them very swift and difficult to hit, sort of like the "Infected" class of zombie in Dying Light (if you've ever played that).

Bombards are pretty bullS#&$, too. They move slowly or crouch and fire one rocket per second. In T4, two rockets is enough to kill light frames. In a crowd, the rockets are almost impossible to distinguish from normal enemy fire, especially if the bombard is out of frame. They need a smoke trail so you can clearly tell when you are about to get facesploded. Slightly (very slightly) reduce rockets' tracking, cut their fire rate by about 30%, and make them lose locks when the target is knocked down. This will help mitigate genuinely unfair deaths.

Ancients have the same problem as Scorpions with magical grappling hooks that can't miss, but Toxic Ancients have a bigger issue. Specifically, their toxin-inflicting roar. It has no damage cap, so eventually it will one-shot you. The audio cue should occur before the attack, not during. The telegraph is brief and hard to distinguish from their other attacks. An animation cleanup by itself could fix this.

Corpus have a bit of a problem with being samey. MOAs all have unique behaviors, and so do techs, nullifiers and modular Corpus. But all crewman variants behave identically. They could use some behavioral diversification. As for nullifiers, apart from all the usual complaints, they have an annoying tendency of sometimes running directly away from an attacking Tenno, avoiding all their attacks. Which can be incredibly frustrating and dangerous. Nullifiers slow down and change the pace of combat while you're outside the bubble. But while you're inside, you are at tremendous risk. They are squishy, yes, but they also need a behavioral change that makes them more vulnerable when attacked directly.

Ultimately, I would love for every single enemy to feel unique and interesting. They should all move in a unique way. Right now, enemy animations feel very unpolished. These are just suggestions, though. An extensive revamp of all the older enemies would go a long way to deepening the game.

Edited by (PS4)BlitzKeir
  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, tripletriple said:

Why is everyone pretending the loki passive is good? It's absolute garbage. 

Have you heard about arcane arachne? try using that with explosives.... absolutely destroys mob without worrying self damage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I suppose one upside to the 'opt-in' thing for speed is that building for negative range won't hurt its team play anymore, sense you won't need to be in close hugging distance to get its buff anymore. So there's that if your going for a full speed build with a squad.

Edited by Spot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, GrimKonstantin said:

ok, here are my two ducats worth:
 

On passives, I'm grading by four standards:

  1. They should be balanced.The most powerful passive will set the bar, and if you place it on a frame that is already powerful, you reinforce the concept of the "meta" rather then fight it.
  2. They should provide a constant and unique aspect to gameplay outside of their powers
  3. The warframe should be able to function even if the passive didn't exist
  4. The should be consistent in all gameplay.

With that in mind, here are my grades: 

Ash: B-, It does fit him, on the border of too powerful, but only testing will tell for sure 

Banshee: B, Fits her, useful all the time, and while it does mimic one of her powers, I think it's a good example of a decent passive 

Ember: D-, I think the worst part of this passive is it requires the player to do something wrong (get set on fire). Add to the fact that the fire proc doesn't happen too often, and at high levels it becomes worthess (no one is going to try to get hit by a level 100 Napalm or Scorch)

Hydroid: C, Not sure how useful it will be, depends on the execution. So needs testing.  

Limbo*: D-, the pasive reads like its an ability effect, not an actual warframe passive. If this were the case you could have skipped him entirely and said "Limbo regenerates energy while in the rift."

Loki: B-, It's a good concept, but wall latch as it stands now detracts from the usefulness, it wall latch works like a toggle, in that once you cling to the wall, you stayed there until time ran out, you jumped or moved. I think it would be better, but the third person view means your vision is too limited to make this useful as is.

Mag: B+, Nice. Useful, but QoL rather than power enhancing.

Nekros: C+, It's a good concept, but either the amount needs to be made a percentage, be affected by health mods (so max rank vitality would make it 27 health), just have it be a percentage of your total (1-2%). I favor the percentage myself, as the precedent was set with Inaros' passive. The range feels a bit short as well, but I can't be sure of that until I try it.

Nova: C, It passes, but it's rather dull. I suppose not all passives can be super exciting though, right?

Nyx: B+, I know the disarm works after the power expires, so I think this is one of the better ones

Oberon: F-, This is almost an insult. Either the paladin or the druid theme can offer better more interesting, balanced alternatives (many of which have been suggested in this thread). This is of limited use, and while unique, Does nothing to add to his gameplay. It almost feels as if when you got the list of suggested passives, you forgot Oberons and had to come up with something at 3 am before the presentation. My personal suggestion? +20% to blocked damage with melee weapons, Simple, matches his theme (and the skin pack I paid 245 plat for), and is consistant.

Trinity: A, An excellent example of a good passive

Vauban: F, Honestly feels like you couldn't think of a good one for him and you settled for this. It doesn't match him thematically, oh minimal use, and (Here's the most damning part) dependent on the cooperation of other players. This last point alone fails it.

Volt: A, It's fun, interesting and works with the frame.

Ones not listed that deserve mention

Inaros: Personally, I view his passive as the sarcophagus when he dies only. The heal on finishers is an integral part of his kit, and effort should be made to seperate this from other passives. Which leads me to my next point...

Chroma: He needs a passive. What you have now isn't a passive, it's an integral part of his kit. If you are going to call this a passive you could have skipped this whole ordeal and just pointed to a random attribute of a frame and said that was it's passivelike, the Valkyr's passive is that she has 600 armor. This issue also applies to...

Zephyr: Her being lightweight isn't a passive, it's a part of her core gameplay. She needs something more. If you want a suggestion, make her passive the Aviator mod. The precedent is there (Rhino with Heavy Landing/Heavy Impact and Equinox with Equilibrium), and the mod isn't availible anymore. the mod will still have value for her, as it would stack with her passive. So those with the exculsive mod would have no cause to complain. 

 

I will not offer feedback on the reworks until I play them, but I am looking forward to them. 

Thanks for your time.

 

This. Especially the part about Chroma. He needs some love, DE. Please don't push him into the closet like the abused step-child.

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really don't care for super situational passives, ones that not only have a minute function, but one that doesn't even occur in the majority of the game.

Why can't we have both functional and thematic passives on all the frames?  Inaros has the highly functional natural life steal on finishers, but also the largely thematic sarcophagus which has function but largely adds an entirely personal quirk to the character. 

Take Oberon as an example,  I actually do massively look forward to his animal kinship abilities, especially if/when we get more wildlife in game, but it's massively situational and won't take effect in a very large chunk of the game.

Coudn't we add something to him to add to the paladin side as well as the druid side?  My personal suggestions:

1. Any slam attacks made by Oberon have a chance to lay down hallowed ground in its area of effect.  Not a big idea, but it would allow him to have a sort of panic button against procs, something to grant a small bit of home field advantage.

2. Hammer proficiency, like Excalibur's present passive, Oberon could have increased attack speed, range and slam attack range increased whenever he wields a hammer, maybe even with heavy blades.

3. Enemies killed by Oberon have a chance of releasing a healing orb, a la renewal, that will seek out and heal someone for a percentage, or if at full health, grant a health or shield bonus.

I'm absolutely certain DE could come up with far better ideas than what I've got, I just don't want them to take the easy way out when they could really make the frames shine.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not quite what I was hoping for Limbo TBH. Haven't had any issues with him in the rift, I don't think his passive will be much help at all. I dunno, I feel his passive could be better. Like... Allies revived by Limbo are automatically sent to the rift for 3 seconds or something. Doesn't effect Limbo himself but atleast that would be useful.

Im excited to know what this new 3rd power is gonna be though. Don't use it myself so that's exciting!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Chroma still actually lacks a passive. Oberon's still isn't great either. 

So much for paying attention. 

Edited by Naith
  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, BeKorni said:

Since Oberon is a support his passive could be a buff for his and his teammates sentinel/kubrow.

Maybe when a sentinel/kubrow dies they come back after a short time. Not only one time, but again and again. And it also applies on sentinels of teammates. Would love the fact that sentinels and kubrow are safe as long as a Oberon is in the team, and it would fit the theme of a support quite well without being op.

Or if this is too much just make the sentinels/kubrows of the team do more damage or something similar.

I love this idea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Vauban's passive is simply unfitting for the frame. The vanilla Vauban only has 50 armor and a full party passive bonus would raise that to mere 87.5 armor. And that's only if your buddies stick with your butt in 10 meter radius. It's just useless. It's a bit more effective on the Vauban Prime, but still disappointing as hell.

Why not something like "Vauban gets increased shields by every active trap on the field." or anything that would actually trigger and have something to do with the actual frame.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Other players in range now get to 'opt-in' to Volt's Speed buff, by activating a pickup that Volt leaves behind on cast.

Dunno why you didnt go with the same as limbos banish on allies, rolling to dispell. Still, well see how it works.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unfortunately half of these passives look really mediocre and not well thought out. The ones like Oberon or Hydroid, that's a "no go" until You consider Corrupted Heavy Gunner as a wild animal :D. 
I'd say hold Your horses - leave the passives for U19. Make a community poll and see what players have to say. The feedback is great and people already are flooding us with interesting ideas. 

As for Volt's rework:

1. Shock - remove the augment (and apply the same action for other powers that have this) and make that empower a built-in feature. 
* Since we would make previous augment built it a good upgrade would make it to chain (as a lightning should actually do) between team players and apply the buff OR it would now heal players instead of buffing their damage. It would give Volt some nice alternative role. (See my changes proposed to Overload)

2. Speed - I think that instead of making Volt leave behind some kind of "portal" for other players to interact with it would be better to instantly give all players in range of a cast a "charged state" and an interaction pop-up that last's for about 5 seconds. If a player will hit X within that 5 seconds while being "charged" they will apply speed to themselves. Of course other interactions like reviving and various console/button interactions should have priority over it.
* Current augment is great and I think all will agree it should stay as it is. 

3. Shield - This one is tricky. The solution I come up with is the following: 
a) Limit the amount of shields Volt can place to 4.
b) Make this ability a channel with increased cost with each shield placed (1e/s for 1 shield, 2e/s for 2 shields etc)
c) Hold X button for 2 seconds to "overload" all placed shields and make them explode applying electricity status effect within 5m (number should be tweaked) around them. 
d) + add all of the proposed changes done in Your rework (thou I must say ability to pick up shield and run with it does not appeal to me too much. Just a personal opinion). 
* Don't really have any good idea for an augment here. Maybe it could return portion of incoming damage back at enemies ? Or maybe it would now bounce back any projectile-based attacks like bombard rockets etc ? 

4. Overload - Well, his ultimate is soo bad that frankly speaking any change is welcome. I'm really curious to see how it will work with changes You have made.
A cool idea that came up to me once was to make his ulti more defensive oriented. Instead of making damage, Overload would now surround yourself and players within range with an electrically charged bubble that repels enemies and prevents incoming damage acting exactly the same as Nezha's Warding Halo (If anyone of You played Electricity power in DCUO will remember ability called Flux as it did exactly the same).  
* Also an augment idea for this ability would be that each bubble will heal a player over time while active. With addition to his Shock augment it would make Volt much, much more team friendly. 

Just a few of my ideas for a rework. I'm not sure how much sense it would make to others but I hope someone will see some useful ideas in here :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Im pretty happy with limbo passive, it doesnt fit his theme that much but whatever, some suggestions for upcoming limbo changes:

- Rift surge should be automatically activated when entering the rift using rift walk, the augment should be changed to affect rift walk.

- You can pick up items inside cataclysm but not when entering the rift via rift walk.

- Limbo survivability in the rift suffers a little bit, cataclysm is nearly unusable due to the lack of a knockdown/CC effect, replace the third ability with something who offers survivability while in the rift.

Other than that he is a pretty solid frame and i dont want his awesome mechanic drastically changed.

Now another thing who has me a little worried, things who trivialize the game, a list of things who i find, in my point of view controversial but balanced and others who are not:

Balanced

- Hysteria`s invincibility: it keeps valkyr unique against the other melee frames, as we are now pretty much all of defensive options are covered, chroma for high levels of armor, wukong+defy for invincibility while using guns or melee, inaros for high health etc.

- Blessing with self damage: a bit controversial these days but in high level missions it can be fatal to be at 2hp in a bad moment, it also takes QT and pretty much you have to sacrifice one weapon slot to adjust the damage for blessing.

Another option (in case of a nerf) is to remove the self damage part but let blessing be affected by shield values to give the damage reduction.

Unbalanced

- Mirage`s prism: it makes a lot of content redundant, it needs more limitations but from my point of view the problem is the blind status, enemies need to be more reactive when dealing with blind status.

- EV (in a minor degree): considering we have energy pads, zenurik and more options to get energy i would prefer if the ability wasnt instant as it is pretty boring gameplay wise, my suggestion is to change EV into a 10 energy per second regen, unaffected by power strength, power strength will affect the finisher damage from EV (in a higher degree as of now to compensate), duration will increase how much the energy regen lasts, energy vampire should be adjusted to the changes.

 

Edited by Rhaenxys
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Passives comes free of charge, free of grinding for them. Why so much complaining about getting free stuff ? :) Yes some passives looks useless or weird... but at least those frames have passives now.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I too am pleased to see Oberon have a passive versus no passive, but was hoping that it would be something that would make Oberon appeal to more players. I do not see 20 second conversions of our limited wildlife as being very useful or impactful to a game-state. I would be pleased to be proven wrong however.

Is it possible to add an additional passive onto Chroma, similar to how Inaros can coffin mode for downed state or Equinox can start as Day or Night but still have functional passives as well?

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

in fact frames should have 2-3 passives at least

 

 

1 useful all the way that complement his kit

for a cc defensive frame , something that help dealing damages

for a damage frame something that help dealing damages

 

1 funny/situational

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, NaharaEriclea said:

Inaros, with his sarcophagus and health restore on finishers, would disagree with you, and Atlas, Excalibur, and Wukong might have something to say as well. Passives right now may not make-or-break a frame (and honestly they shouldn't), but they can be incredibly helpful and beneficial to a frame, and be used regardless of the situation they're placed in.

As a lot of people have already said better than I could, this new passive for Oberon is pretty garbage. It's limited in which tilesets and factions it works in, something that no other frame has to deal with, and does something that Smite and Retribution already allow him to do through radiation procs. I wasn't expecting a passive that would suddenly make Oberon outrageously overpowered, but I was hoping it would be something more useful than a 20 second charm on pets...

All of those passives, while nice, if taken away, wouldn't break the frame at all. In arose would still have his 4 and high cc, Excalibur still does high dmg, Wukong could easily just be allowed to have body count without his, and Atlas...really? I mean, no knock down is pretty nice, but I feel like being able to rocket punch and build trumps wall wouldn't be terribly hampered by the occasional knock down 

As for broberon, there may be potential still. As I, myself, said in my op, as it sits, it is indeed lackluster, but there may be potential, depending on what can be recruited per faction. 

Read a post all the way through before trying to counter with a point already made by the person you're looking to counter.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

 

Nyx: Enemies affected by any of Nyx's powers have a chance to lay down their weapon ( become disarmed ).

Now I'm worried for my mega mind control build. Please tell me mind control won't be affected by this. I don't wanna see a nice napalm eximus, mind control him and then have him drop his weapon.

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...