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[DE]Rebecca

Dev Workshop: Passives, Volt, Mag & More!

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i think nekros's passive should have 10 health per kill :// but if DE wants it to be this so be it.

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why are half the passives BS so far?

loki: who uses wall latch that much anyway?

hydroid: yea cuz he wasnt useless enough, one tentacle, with not even guaranteed or high chance, requiring melee, on a squishy frame that has nothing to defend himself with.........

nova: one: useless, two: 6 meters? why so big? (sarcasm)

volt: pls tell me this isn`t real..........

rhino: I don`t even.......

mesa: 50 hp is too low for sacrificing one of ur weapons, especially if it`s the most util one (regens ur health, stunlocks, no ammo, etc)

Spoiler

im aware some of these are already ingame, but I saw no reason not to talk about them

 

Edited by Bizzaro21
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Just my personal opinion but Volt's Speed should also be toggleable, that recasting gets annoying on longer missions.

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As far as ember is concerned, I think she should have a heating up mechanic.  She has a heat meter and every time she casts a power it increases (also as long as WOF is active it keeps increasing) as it fills up, she does more damage and has range and causing heat procs to  enemies up to 10 meters away (max 60%) then if the meter overflows, ember bursts into flames and is fire proc'd.  The passive will activate and now she is doing another 30%. The meter decreases over time, if accelerant is used, if standing in water, or if hit with a cold proc. Why would i suggest this?  Well it seems DE wants you to find value in lesser used mods (flame repellant) and it creates a hectic balancing act that has significant upsides and downsides.  Also I think her burn procs should do, in addition to their normal damage, 3% of the enemies max health per second when overheated.  Fighting ember should be like fighting in a forest fire, she should be burning everything.

Edited by Danjal777
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10 hours ago, Rikov said:

 

If you wanna leave oberon as the deer frame, why not have his passive be, instead of turning enemy wildlife, how about he has a chance to summon it? Like when he gets a status effect on him it can cause a wildlife creature(kavat,skate,kubrow,ect) to come and assist him.

 

I like this! He could seriously be lethal if he was summoning feral kavats that obeyed him for 15 seconds upon reaching 30% health. I do like his passive as it stands, I think it would be a good conjunction, if the tile has wildlife, he uses those. If it doesn't, he summons some to aid him!

Like this XD:

tumblr_n5klqf3YaO1st0dt8o6_250.gif

As for the other passives, I like them all, no complaints really! 

And as for the opt-in speed, THANK YOU! 

Edited by Hydroxate
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Alright, so here is my cup of tea, about the stuff thats incoming, and I kown its subject to change, but I want to put my share of thoughts first. 

DE Passives:

Ash: Bleed Procs dealt by Ash from any source are 25% deadlier and last 50% longer.

My Thoughts: Meh this is ok I guess, it don't really bring anything to his kit, but I chuold be wrong, this is only on paper.    

Banshee: All weapons are treated as silent.

My Thoughts: Terrible, this brings nothing to her kit, Banshee needs rework anyways. She IS the lest used frame for a reason. 

Ember: Receiving a Heat Status effect will regenerate energy for the duration of the Status effect (10 energy per second) and increase Power Strength by 35%.

My Thoughts:  This is terrible, you have to rely on getting yourself hurt by fire, or running into a flamer unit, and that almost means Death. This needs to be changed

Hydroid: Every Melee Ground-Slam has a 50% chance to lure a Tentacle that will last 15 seconds.

My Thoughts:  Don't care, I will never ever play Hydorid, I hate him with a passion, I won't even by the Primed one (Unless it looks good)  

Limbo*: Holster Speed and Reload Speed is 50% faster while in the Rift, and movement speed increases by 10% while in the Rift.

My Thoughts:  I want this to be better, this brings nothing to his kit, make sure you drink some good coffee!

Loki: 10x Wall-Cling duration!

My Thoughts: Don't really care, I've never used wall-latching on any frame, tho this really does not bring much to his kit.

Mag: Vacuum effect on every Bullet Jump.

My Thoughts: Fine by me, tho this is a bit pointless, due to we have a carrier 

Nekros: Enemy death within 10 meters of Nekros regenerates a 5 Health.

My Thoughts: GOOD!

Nova: When Nova is down, she will knock down enemies in a 6 meter Radius.

My Thoughts: What kind of down?, when she's koncked down, or when shes down as in, needs a healing?, if its knocked down, this will be useful 

Nyx: Enemies affected by any of Nyx's powers have a chance to lay down their weapon ( become disarmed ).

My Thoughts: GOOD!

Oberon: All wildlife (neutral or enemy faction) within a 10 meter range of Oberon will become allies and fight for Oberon for 20 seconds.

My Thoughts:  Sounds good, but this needs to be a perm thing, rather then a few seconds, or give him a heal when hes in sunlight. 

Trinity: Revive fallen allies faster from further away.

My Thoughts:  GOOD

Vauban: Other Warframes within 10 meters give you 25% bonus armour.

My Thoughts:  Bad, this brings nothing to his, kit and will make it useless on solo runs.

Volt: Physical ground-travel distance between attacks causes bonus Electrical damage on next attack.

My Thoughts: Meh, brings nothing to his kit, really, but its nice, never the less.

Mesa: Shooting Gallery is now Perm & Peacemaker Change

My Thoughts: Fine by me

 

*And now Limbo:

If we can, we will make more changes to him by tomorrow (cue the coffee machine). His passive is really not something we believe puts him in a place we think is near final. We are considering replacing his 3 (Rift Surge) with something else. Stay tuned!

My Thoughts:  PLEASE DO THIS, PLEASE DO THIS, PLEASE DO THIS, PLEASE DO THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Chroma: he is a knight wearing a dragons pelt.  So two passives: honor and greed.

Honor: any time chroma revives an ally or applies his aura to an ally (30 sec cooldown) he gains an honor token, if he collects three, he gains a bonus based on element:

Fire: regeneration 3/ second for 30 seconds

Ice: an ice shield that works like iron skin with health equal to twice chromas health.

Toxin: +30%movement speed (30 seconds)

Electricity: shield recharge rate +300 (30 seconds)

Also if you perform a ground finisher, or stealth finisher you lose all honor tokens but multiply your damage by the number of tokens lost.

Greed: add the number of credits picked up in a mission to the damage per second of spectral scream. (This would awesome!)

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Really happy about the 2 reworks. They sound great - I wonder if Overload will be a reliable CC? Not too fond of crush though - I just dont see it ever being used. U can pretty much cast pull two times and empty a clip for the casting time of Crush and have almost the same effect.

Passives:

Ember is just irrelevant.

I kinda like Hydroids passive. I think it adds a unique way to play the game/him.

Limbo is great. Would love to see Limbo having the ability to share ANY buff in the rift with his allies. Passive, berzerker, headshot crit chance etc - would add a whole new layer to him/the game.

Loki is great. Make cling/hang toggeable like crouch and we have many new great ways to play! 

Nekros idea is great - needs a buff though. Either range of stre or both.

Vauban, meh. Was kinda hoping he would buff allies and that it would be a bigger range.

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12 hours ago, xRufus7x said:

Vaubaun should support the team. Increasing ammo drops within a certain radius is an option or just giving nearby allies a slow ammo regeneration. 

I absolutely love that Idea, both in mechanics and theme!

 

Embers passive might be ok as soon as the environment effects are implemented.

Oberons passive isn't great at all, except in theme, make it permanent or remove it.

Hydroids passive I also don't like, how is it that the two least competative frames (Oberon and Hydroid) get such weak passives?

I really like Nyx and I would hate seeing her and loki become even more alike. What about Enemys that dammage her (meele or ranged) have a chance to get mind controlled for a time?

I'm not sure about Banshee, but I'm not a big Banshee player and I heard some people like it...

The others seem fine or even great (Love Ash, Loki Trin and Volts passives!)

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NOVA passive is terrible , if you are playing a nova at high levels/sorties etc, if you get knockdown, pulled or whatever you are dead anyway , there isn`t any 6 meter blast proc that can save you, and its useless for low levels too.

 

 

 

Now a good passive could be like when shields go Down you get a knockdown wave in a 20 m radius with a internal cd of like 30 secs. thats a useful passive...

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, LegionCynex said:

Ash: Bleed Procs dealt by Ash from any source are 25% deadlier and last 50% longer.

 

My Thoughts: Meh this is ok I guess, it don't really bring anything to his kit, but I chuold be wrong, this is only on paper.   

 

It's basically a huge buff on Shuriken and Bladestorm aswell as bladed weapons and on top of that it's even great for his theme.

So far my favorite of the new passives.

(Bladestorm deals about 60% of it's dammage through the bleed proc, meaning with the passive he does about 50% more dammage with bladestorm. Same goes for Shuriken.)

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Please do not make volts speed working on pick-up, in a group where everyone in range wants the speed buff, this is a huge slow down and even annoying it you have to get that thing again every time (im especially concerned about my groups raids)

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I AM SO READY FOR THIS.  I NEED UPDATE NOW!!!

{EDIT:  I like the sound of Volt's new kit. I'm hoping for a few more synergies to come down the pipe for him, but I like what I saw.  The only part I hate to see it the continued lack of Ball Lightning.  This could bring a knockdown to Volt's kit, and REALLY, do you NEED a reason to want to throw Ball Lightning?}

As a side note, one of the problems these 'Frames face seems to be the damage type thier abilities use.  Lightning and Magnetic damage tend to feel all around dull.

In particular Volt has a damage type that's basically at best kinda "meh".  Most foes we face simply don't care about being electrocuted, and some of the ones that are supposed to be weak to it have shielding that needs to be burned through first, making the issue worse.

I've suggested the possibility of electric damage bypassing 1/2 of the target's shields and armor, and so far this seems to sound good to players.  Please understand, that "1/2 bypass" is a really loose approximation rather than numbers set in stone, but it's a thought.  I feel like Volt was replaced by toxin damage back in the day, and that's just a sad thought.

Also, if I taze someone they fall down (usually). -Food for thought.

Really, it's not just those 2 cases either.  All the elements could use a rework, and it can't come soon enough.  The big complaint for status users is that some statuses "hardly do anything", or at least are worthless compared to simply killing the enemy (which is why a few statuses are used HEAVILY).  I REALLY hope multishot doesn't wind up REQUIRED for status builds, like it is now.  That may well make status a moot point, what with the inability to use a gun that has no bullets left.

{EDIT AGAIN:  Gotta say I'm not looking at Nova's passive as having any sort of impact on play whatsoever, so kinda pointless.  Better than Vauban, though.  Vauban's passive feels like an enormous middle finger to solo players.}

Edited by Cytobel
Ball Lightning

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14 hours ago, residente said:

Vauban: 25 armor (Vauban Prime) if one of your allies is near you. That's 125 armor instead of 100, now Vauban Prime will have the same armor as Ember Prime! I expected it to be the other way: Vauban gives allies 25% armor. 

Oberon: no words. Instead of giving him something useful to compensate his mediocrity you make him allied of the wild life, which is present in just a couple of tilesets. Why not give him physical procs immunity, or a passive health regeneration to allies? 

Hydroid: again, a mediocre warframe that has his utilities. He could have gotten a proper passive to compensate how lackluster he is, and instead we have some ground finisher passive.

Nekros: stats are just too small. 5 health is nothing and you now it, and 10 metters means near melee range to get any benefit from that. And Nekros is not the kind of warframe that would go close range aginst his enemies.

Vauban should have been that when you are alone you get a certain amount of armor and then share it with the team mates that are close

Oberon's passive can work, if weak MOAs and crawlers are considered wild life. But think about it, he can turn hyekas and drahks into friendlies. That is a huge help when dealing with grineer.

Hydroid's is fine, but a bit underwhelming. But still i think it will be a good addition

Nekros' passive is better than you think. with a simple rage build you can keep getting in the middle of the enemies and using terrify to melee them and quickly gain more health, and then you can desecrate to get the health orbs to just do the whole process again.

 

But alas we cannot truly judge these until they are implemented into the game.

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2 hours ago, sanetri said:

Oberon's passive can work, if weak MOAs and crawlers are considered wild life. But think about it, he can turn hyekas and drahks into friendlies. That is a huge help when dealing with grineer.

Considering you can inflict radiation procs with ease with Oberon I can't see how turning hyekas and drahks into friendlies is a huge help.

2 hours ago, sanetri said:

Nekros' passive is better than you think. with a simple rage build you can keep getting in the middle of the enemies and using terrify to melee them and quickly gain more health, and then you can desecrate to get the health orbs to just do the whole process again.

That passive is redundant considering the amount of orbs you can collect with Desecrate. And even if it's any helpful, that playstile doesn't fit him at all. Any passive involving souls mechanic would be much better.

Edited by residente
typo
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2 hours ago, Danjal777 said:

As far as ember is concerned, I think she should have a heating up mechanic.  She has a heat meter and every time she casts a power it increases (also as long as WOF is active it keeps increasing) as it fills up, she does more damage and has range and causing heat procs to  enemies up to 10 meters away (max 60%) then if the meter overflows, ember bursts into flames and is fire proc'd.  The passive will activate and now she is doing another 30%. The meter decreases over time, if accelerant is used, if standing in water, or if hit with a cold proc. Why would i suggest this?  Well it seems DE wants you to find value in lesser used mods (flame repellant) and it creates a hectic balancing act that has significant upsides and downsides.  Also I think her burn procs should do, in addition to their normal damage, 3% of the enemies max health per second when overheated.  Fighting ember should be like fighting in a forest fire, she should be burning everything.

Holy S#&$ that idea is fantastic. Doubt they'll do this though.

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Worst change to Volt ever - he was an essential frame for raid speedruns and is now basically an Escape Velocity nova 2.0 - only worse. There is no reason to change into an "opt-in" system as the main problems lie with new players who could not handle the speedbuff, or who simply do not have a full grasp of the movement mechanics. Dont like moving at 3x the speed? They can always change from sprinting to walking which practically removes the speedbuff - but no, keep sprinting at a speed they cant handle, get stuck at doors and then complain on forums.

 

If there really need to be an opt-in system, then make it similar to limbo's rift (roll to dispel) - rather than a hammer nerf to group speed buff.

Edited by nomoreraining
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Now Onto My Own Toughts, what the passive SHOULD BE

Alright, so here is my cup of tea, about the stuff thats incoming, and I kown its subject to change, but I want to put my share of thoughts first. 

DE Passives:

Ash: Bleed Procs & Slash Damage dealt by Ash from any source are 50% deadlier and last 30% longer. 

Why?: This will make him alot more better. 25% is nothing.

Rework: YES

Banshee: Emits a protective wave of sound, that radiate out from Banshee that, briefly provides her and nearby allies with personal shields.

Why?: This allows Banshee, to be mroe support role, also see my Rework for more info, when I post it

Rework: YES

Ember: Ember is no longer hurt by any sources of fire & insisted is healed by it. 

Why?: Ember shuold be healed by Fire, not damaged.

Hydroid: Every Melee Ground-Slam has a 50% chance to lure a Tentacle that will last 15 seconds.

Can't think of one right now, in my own book, hes a very bad frame. please don't take seriously  

Limbo: While in the Rift, Limbo, Limbo Regens Shields & Energy by 50%

Why?: Limbo is already a glass-cannon, this will make him use his powers, The Rift, alot more.

Loki: When Loki kills in sleath, a decoy is deployed.

Why?: Cuz its better, then Wall-lach, also Loki is not a Ninja, Ash Is 

Mag: Mag will deal Magnetic damage on all her weapons, Her shields are healed when she is struck by Mag damage.

Why?: Carrier Prime FTW 

Nekros: Enemy death within 10 meters of Nekros regenerates a 20 Health.

Why: It needs a buff, 5 Is nothing.

Nova: When Nova is down, she will knock down enemies in a 6 meter Radius.

Nyx: Enemies affected by any of Nyx's powers have a chance to lay down their weapon ( become disarmed ).

Oberon: All wildlife (neutral or enemy faction) within a 10 meter range of Oberon will become allies and fight for Oberon for ever.

Why?: 20 secs, is nothing, Perm or nothing

Trinity: Revive fallen allies faster from further away.

Vauban: Vauban can deploy his very own Isolator Bursa, once per mission & it can be revived like a pet .

Why?: Cuz Moa's suit him & his other passive was trash. This allows him to be a more effective techy frame.

Volt: Retribution Mod per-fitted, but better.

Why?: End this gonna-go-fast, trash.

Mesa: Shooting Gallery is now Perm & Peacemaker now act like exalted weapons (she can move around freely)

Why?: Cuz gunslingers don't sit and stand to get killed.

 

 

Thank You

 

Edited by LegionCynex
Cuz salts
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56 minutes ago, Vethalon said:

 

It's basically a huge buff on Shuriken and Bladestorm aswell as bladed weapons and on top of that it's even great for his theme.

So far my favorite of the new passives.

(Bladestorm deals about 60% of it's dammage through the bleed proc, meaning with the passive he does about 50% more dammage with bladestorm. Same goes for Shuriken.)

Yeah, I didn't see that until now, thanks!

 

Also @[DE]Rebecca But what about this Bladestrom rework?, Ash Needs his BLADESTORM rework!

Edited by LegionCynex

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3 minutes ago, LegionCynex said:

 

Hydroid: Every Melee Ground-Slam has a 50% chance to lure a Tentacle that will last 15 seconds.

Don't care about this frame ^, he can get removed all I care

Some of your ideas are good, but seeing this actually makes me want to take you less seriously. Just because you don't like a frame does not warrant it to be "deleted" from the game. That will never happen. At least try to give something for Hydroid instead of dismissing it. 

I read someone say he should get some more movespeed when he touches water/comes out of water. Which makes his abilites work for him and on some maps.

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11 minutes ago, nomoreraining said:

Worse change to Volt ever - he was an essential frame for raid speedruns and now is basically an Escape Velocity nova 2.0 - only worse. There is no reason to change into an "opt-in" system as the main problems lie with new players who cant handle the speedbuff or who simply do not have a full grasp of the movement mechanics. Dont like moving at 3x the speed? They can always change from sprinting to walking which practically removes the speedbuff - but no, keep sprinting at a speed they cant handle, get stuck at doors and then complain on forums.

Amen.

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12 hours ago, (PS4)BrutalReaper32 said:

Well, it's not like you have to rely on a wall latch, but I use it on large tilesets to remain undetected it there isn't a cover that will hide me from thar amount of enemies.
There are also a couple of puzzles on moon spy missions that require a good technique of wall latch. But, if I had to find a good use for prolonged wall latch for Loki. I would say that maybe you could use with that arcane enhancement that gives you adition weapon damage while you are using wall latch. Or also, as it keeps you undetected because you are out of the FoV of the enemies, you could wall latch to refresh your invisibility and cast your abilities safer. (but that's really situational).

Hm, never really ran into a situation where there was no cover for recasting invisibility. Maybe for non-invisibility stealth runs? But that's probably way too hard even with infinite wall latch.

Haven't played a moon spy mission yet, will look out for that.

The arcance arachne enhancement, if I read the wiki correctly, has some anti-synergy with the Loki passive. Because it's a chance to activate on a wall latch and then gives you bonus damage for your next hit only. So to get the best use out of that you should latch, fire, drop, repeat and not stay up for as long as possible :-/

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15 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

The first is practical feedback review. Maybe you're like me and wonder if the quirky fun of Oberon's passive works in practice, or maybe you're sold on that flavour alone. Immersion and style matters just as much as a small stat. Do you believe that everything has to work in all scenarios all the time – if so how far off is the content Warframe offers in being universal? Where do Passives belong – what rules do you think they should follow? Is there room for niche? How deep can a niche go?

Fair enough. I must express my early skepticism at Oberon's new passive, but it needs to be played before it's critiqued, with considerations of not only usefulness, but also aesthetic effect and what it adds to character and play style. I look forward to playing with this new material and figuring that out.

Thank-you for the update! Especially the Mag rework, I've been really excited to get back into playing her since the Devstream showcasing her new kit.

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I've just some complains about Ash's passive and Mag's change on Bullet Attractor 

Ahs's passive is too similar to Saryn's one, not the same but similar and it is clearly thought for his first and last abilities which clearly benefits of a longer and stronger slash procs. But I would have appreciated something more unique for him, perhaps more linked with his nature of ninja-warframe, such a proficiency with throwing dagger, or longer stealth bonus and so on.   

I really like how bullet attractor works now, it give you automatic headshots and it's perfect to eliminate single targets, like the bursas and then explode to deal damage to those around the target. The new version, Magnetize, seems interesting, and if I understood it correctly, it's a sort of Snow Globe, but rather than protect what's inside, it deals damage over time? But still, it makes Mag play a role similar to other warframes, which is a shame for me because I'd like if the frames were more unique but still available for all kind of missions

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10 hours ago, Melos-mevim said:

and let me go ahead and counter those points

 

as things are right now wild life already attack enemy and unless you attack them generally leave players alone. 

 

as for hyeekas and drakks people seem to forget that both oberon's first power and his ult create guaranteed rad procs, a rad proc bascially acts EXACTLY like nyx chaos this means oberon can already turn grineer pets against their masters once again making the existence of this passive utterly pointless

 

a good oberon player already knows to make use of the rad procs from his powers to turn enemies against each other, so they would be already trunning enemy pet units agaisnt their owners

 

THIS PASSIVE IS UTTERLY POINTLESS

You're not really countering my points.  I was never trying to weigh in on if it was good or bad.  All I was doing was trying to state that there's possibly more to it than feral wildlife.  Which does give it more uses than on what you were stating originally "agaisnt one faction and only on lower level missions".  I was assuming you were referring to earth and fighting the grineer.  In addition I'd like to point out that a rad proc doesn't guarantee that the enemy unit effected by radiation won't attack you where this is 100% they will fight for you for 20 seconds.  So it's not completely pointless but it DOES have limited uses currently and seems a bit niche compared to some of the other passives.  So on THAT point I will agree with you.  Hope that makes sense.  I'm not trying to pick a fight or anything. Just stating that there was more to it than I think people were seeing due to outrage.

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