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[DE]Rebecca

Dev Workshop: Passives, Volt, Mag & More!

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The oberon passive seems kind of lackluster to be honest, will have to play around with it. 

 

What would be interesting is if he gets some kind of bonus from being around titania (we all know its going to be called that :P ) and she from him. 

This would work well since hes the king of fairys so it would make sense that he gets some kind of bonus. 

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21 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Limbo*: Holster Speed and Reload Speed is 50% faster while in the Rift, and movement speed increases by 10% while in the Rift.

*And now Limbo:

If we can, we will make more changes to him by tomorrow (cue the coffee machine). His passive is really not something we believe puts him in a place we think is near final. We are considering replacing his 3 (Rift Surge) with something else. Stay tuned!

 

This concerns me a lot.

One - why would being in the Rift affect reload and holster speed?

If you are considering replacing Rift Surge, then it really wants to become the Passive (affected by Power Strength still preferably) - I almost constantly have Rift Surge on, the damage bonus is too useful.

The current Passive, doesn't make much, if any sense either.

I'm fine with suggestions of combining the first and second power into the first power, with a new secondary, but removing the boost from Rift Surge completely is bad.

 

Legitimate suggestion:

Passive - Rift Surge: While in the Rift, that base +200% damage. (Preferably affected by power strength - even my Duration build is around +340%, so losing effectively 78% to 85% of my damage output in the rift is harsh. But even a flat +200% would be acceptable, if annoying damage reduction)
Could also gain that 10% speed boost + reload / holster in general. (maybe 10% instead of 50 being 'always'?)

Changes to the Rift:
Pick one:
ALL
inhabitants of the Rift can interact with Consoles.
NO inhabitants of the Rift can interact with Consoles.
None of this Limbo / Tenno cannot, while all other enemies can!
What possible reason is there that Limbo, the Riftwalker, the one controlling and hopping in and out of it CAN'T use it while every other lowly grunt can.
I don't know why Limbo was prevented from using consoles from the Rift in the first place, when frames like Vakyr get to be immortal, gain a very powerful weapon, and can still interact with all consoles and items.
But there's a lack of consistency, and what feels like a nerf there.

I don't know what you'd want to replace Rift Surge with, but something relevant to old powers, like a mass rifting mechanic (every enemy with X), or a direct damage ability (Rifting say... partof an enemy, and see how well they do without limbs, or internal organs?)

I'm honestly dubious currently though, as I started with Limbo (bought it as soon as had access to the market) and he is my primary frame, with a lot of work put into him, 2 loadout slots dedicated to him, and several cosmetics bought just for Limbo.
Currently, a Limbo Premium skin or Limbo Prime pack would likely be an instant purchase too.

I hope you do right by him, but past performance doesn't fill me with confidence.

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If your going to take a look at warframes that 'trivialize' content, can you please also take a look at content that trivialize warframes?

The bullet sponge foes, the endless parade of enemies that take away our powers, the ones that do both at the same time...

Please if you are weakening frames ( and they could stand to be weaker ) take the time to find ways to give us challenge without removing game play and make end game a celebration of all we can do.

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REALLY dislike the idea of Volt Speed turning into a second Focus Pickup to run back to. Shouldve really given it the Limbo treatment of opting out via rolling. If anything this makes speedrunning harder and entices solo playing when speedrunning missions like void captures even more.

I hope you'll listen to the inevitable feedback if that goes live in this state. It turns Volt into more of a solo play frame, not the best for a teamplay based game

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The large FOV of the present Volt speed is very important to me for navigating levels at high speed. As I'm always looking for ways to go faster with it, I just hope reducing it won't cause me to lose an edge.

I'll be sure to give you my feedback about that as soon as I can test it.

Also, I thought it was low FOVs that were causing motion sickness? Can someone afflicted tell me if I'm missing something here?

Additionally I agree with Jukantos about making it a pick up... If Volt is behind the team for any reason I doubt anyone will go back to pick up the buff... That lessens his usefulness a great deal. Also, in a close combat melee, there'd be now way to avoid picking it up anyway. It has a strong feeling of half-measure.

Edited by lukaself

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I have a question for oberon's passive: Can his passive on wildlife trigger more than once on the same mob/dog/cat after the 20 secs and that animal comes back to attack him?

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6 minutes ago, TheRandomHunter said:

The Chroma passive idea is okay

The Hydroid passive idea is utterly broken and doesn't match the frame at all.

Limbo's existing passive is fine. There's a lot of complaints about it for reasons unknown to me, a passive is a passive, it's meant to be a bonus not some massive ability, and reload speed is good when you don't need to mod for it.

Loki's passive, didn't they plan on adding that to radars when you're stealthy anyway? Thought I saw that on a devstream sometime.

Mag's existing passive is fine. "But what if you use carrier!?" You suddenly have an excuse not to use carrier.

Nyx's passive is literally what evasion does, or rather, the effect of it does. All movement reduces enemy accuracy relative to the speed you're going, evasion simply adds a passive to that effect. While I dislike Nyx's passive because it can actually reduce the effectiveness of Chaos, your suggestion really doesn't fit her well.

Overon's passive screams "Hello Bombards and Heavy Gunners, please kill me as I get an AFK flag", as movement will always be a better damage deterrent than any amount of armor. Also I don't think anyone realizes the potential of having those animals that Grineer enemies swarm at you turned against them. Oberon's current passive is gimmicky, but potentially fantastic.

Vauban's passive would be fantastic and I'd greatly prefer that.

What do you suggest for Hydroid then?

I'd rather be rid of Vacuum altogether and replace it. Have only ammo, energy, health and survival items drop on maps. The rest of what currently drops should directly go into the Rewards system, like how credits do. I figure let the unseen supporting extraction teams handle those logistics and we see those on the end of mission screen.

With Oberon the idea is to passively buff him so that he can better synergize with Hallowed Ground, casting three of his four abilities stationary and to be able to revive safer.

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I love how every noob complains about Limbo's 3rd ability even though his 3/4 are what make him VIABLE IN COMBAT

but no keep his 1/2 as seperate abilities that do the exact same thing..... and give him a crap reload/weapons witch passive

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Ok i have my own vision of the further Mag rework

Do you remember that awful Greedy Pull that trivialized everything and made a T4D's piece a cake? It has been changed so noone uses it now. With the rework of the Mag's abilities i think of the following augument change:

Greedy Pull - now does not make "Pull" pulling the pickups, but it affects the second ability, so the magnetize can collect the pickups at the center of the abbility from within it's range

Instead of the greedy pull, make the "Pull" pull the centers of the magnetize, that are left themself after killing it's original host. Magnetizes pulled that way could be held at the cost of energy and after recast thrown in other place or at another enemy. The duration of the pulled magnetize could have stop at the time of being held.

Vacuming pickups seems reasonable not only because magnetize could have work like in reality, but also it could make a synergy between mag and explosive ledgerdmain Mirage, taking huge amount of proc's and cooling enemies, that can even further increase the effectiveness

This could be a fair resurrection of the GP, that could require a skillful manipulation of the ability

MOAR interactions BETWEEN FRAMES! YAY!

Edited by Neuroszima

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7 minutes ago, DarkOvion said:

Changes to the Rift:
Pick one:
ALL
inhabitants of the Rift can interact with Consoles.
NO inhabitants of the Rift can interact with Consoles.
None of this Limbo / Tenno cannot, while all other enemies can!
What possible reason is there that Limbo, the Riftwalker, the one controlling and hopping in and out of it CAN'T use it while every other lowly grunt can.
I don't know why Limbo was prevented from using consoles from the Rift in the first place, when frames like Vakyr get to be immortal, gain a very powerful weapon, and can still interact with all consoles and items.
But there's a lack of consistency, and what feels like a nerf there.

 

2
 

As someone who regularly play Limbo. THIS THIS THIS THIS 

Again as someone else said earlier. Limbo should be the master of the rift.

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3 minutes ago, Neuroszima said:

Ok i have my own vision of the further Mag rework

Do you remember that awful Greedy Pull that trivialized everything and made a T4D's piece a cake? It has been changed so noone uses it now. With the rework of the Mag's abilities i think of the following augument change:

Greedy Pull - now does not make "Pull" pulling the pickups, but it affects the second ability, so the magnetize can collect the pickups at the center of the abbility from within it's range

Instead of the greedy pull, make the "Pull" pull the centers of the magnetize, that are left themself after killing it's original host. Magnetizes pulled that way could be held at the cost of energy and after recast thrown in other place or at another enemy. The duration of the pulled magnetize could have stop at the time of being held.

Vacuming pickups seems reasonable not only because magnetize could have work like in reality, but also it could make a synergy between mag and explosive ledgerdmain Mirage, taking huge amount of proc's and cooling enemies, that can even further increase the effectiveness

This could be a fair resurrection of the GP, that could require a skillful manipulation of the ability

MOAR interactions BETWEEN FRAMES! YAY!

DE isn't going back to Greedy Pull after what they saw of it. It was too good of a Mod that #1 became the #1 ability used for a while! If a passive had a similar advantage, think Peacemaker and Draco and Tonkor are issues now??? Any other frame lover will make the Nitain threads look tame!

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Loki had some real potential for a cool passive but instead he can stick to walls longer, an ability that probably 10% of Loki players will actually use. Wall cling is barely useful as is. seems phoned in, like a wasted opportunity. As for volt... FOV change and surprising your allies with speed was the best part of speed, lol. Speed has saved my allies so many times, but it will be pretty much useless if they have to walk over to a specific point. What if they are in front of me? Speed doesnt last long enough for it to be worth back tracking for. Doesnt seem like a well thought out change. I will never use another volt's speed because its inconvenient. may as well take away the team aspect. Also, I really miss the days of increased range in energy weapons shot through the shield.

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8 minutes ago, lukaself said:

The large FOV of the present Volt speed is very important to me for navigating levels at high speed. As I'm always looking for ways to go faster with it, I just hope reducing it won't cause me to lose an edge.

I'll be sure to give you my feedback about that as soon as I can test it.

Also, I thought it was low FOVs that were causing motion sickness? Can someone afflicted tell me if I'm missing something here?

It's not high or low FOV that causes problems, as the correct FOV depends on screen size and distance from eyes. It's wrong or *changing* FOV that is disturbing, because for my setup the default FOV is good, meaning the sudden shift to a bad FOV is disturbing. 

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22 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

 

If we can, we will make more changes to him by tomorrow (cue the coffee machine). His passive is really not something we believe puts him in a place we think is near final. We are considering replacing his 3 (Rift Surge) with something else. Stay tuned!

 

 

i knew it! you start to work in the patches one day earlier thats why is always delayed. 

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I think something that would be cool is if they made Trinity's Energy Vamp into her 1 and then made her 2 into an AOE Debuff for enemies. say take like 50% more damage at max rank?

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1 minute ago, KinetosImpetus said:

It's not high or low FOV that causes problems, as the correct FOV depends on screen size and distance from eyes. It's wrong or *changing* FOV that is disturbing, because for my setup the default FOV is good, meaning the sudden shift to a bad FOV is disturbing. 

That violates the rule of changing the player's own personal environment. A no-no. It makes customization of the controls obsolete, too.

People need certain things turned down or up for preferences. If a change in the controls don't allow it, it can even be not only not playable (as we don't all have $4000 computers), even disabling.

3D spatial problems also doesn't just exist with stroke survivors. :/

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Just now, Zera314 said:

As someone who regularly play Limbo. THIS THIS THIS THIS 

Again as someone else said earlier. Limbo should be the master of the rift.

 

The easiest way to fix all of this would be making consoles banishable. That would lock them out from enemies hacking them and allow Limbo/Tenno to interact with them as long as they're also in the rift. Many other elements need to be banishable, too. Lasers, lockers, traps, slam orbs, explosive barrels, inbound porjectiles like bombard rockets. Situational, sure... but that's supposed to be the quirky nature of limbo... to compliment unique and imaginative playstyle. To say what is and is not in the rift to truly dominate the enemy by controlling this binary set of dimensions. But without anything to banish it eliminates any high concept gameplay.

 

Right now he's just a sortie defence meta. Everything that made him useful and unique has nerfed him to oblivion.

Edited by MrDaylight

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6 minutes ago, Barkano said:

i knew it! you start to work in the patches one day earlier thats why is always delayed. 

If it was that easy. It's more than adjusting ratios through an interface (like modding games client side). Any changes they do affects everything, and can't be treated like client can change their preferences (i.e., modding a shooter for custom maps).

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I'm pretty sad that you guys actually went with that ridiculous passive for Oberon.  Sand Skates, Feral Kubrows, and Feral Kavats all tend to attack enemies before they start attacking players, so the passive won't have much of an effect on them.  To say nothing of the fact that most players will intentionally try to kill any Feral Kubrows (and soon, Feral Kavats) on sight because they are one of only two sources of their related mods.  So...the only real use of this is against Drahks and Hyekka...both of which spawn at noticably lower levels than any other enemy in whatever tileset they're in, and Drahks don't do much damage regardless.  So the use of this is essentially that Hyekka and Drahks can turn against their masters, and get killed before they can do very much because they're under-leveled.  And again, there's the problem that players will actively try to kill the "pet" enemies for their unique drops, further limiting this passive's usefulness.  To say nothing of how against Corpus or most Infested, this passive will have no effect.  Almost every other passive has utility that can be used in EVERY mission, but this won't have much of an effect even in missions where these enemies spawn.  Hyekka and Drahk masters are both relatively uncommon enemies, and this passive relies on them spawning to do much of anything.  I guess it could have some use on Grineer Defense/Mobile Defense/Excavation to ever so slightly decrease the amount of damage that the objective takes?  But again, these enemies are rarely the source of much damage, especially now that Hyekkas work properly (thank you for that, by the way).  Essentially, this passive makes it so that "pet" enemies will serve as a momentary distraction to the surrounding units.  Which isn't really needed because Oberon is generally pretty tanky anyways?  You've said that you intend to add wildlife to more tilesets, but I don't think that will solve the problems that this passive has.  The wild enemies will likely still either: A. be weaker than every other enemy in the mission because they were summoned or B. be more of a help than a hindrance even without Oberon's passive.  I really liked the photosynthesis idea, especially since it works with both the dryad and paladin interpretations of Oberon.  Just because Mirage has a light-level related power doesn't mean Oberon can't have a light-level related passive!  And, it would be useful on all tilesets against all factions.  I understand that the concept of an ability is just as important as its application and uses in the game, but concept is typically ignored if the application has negligible effects and no real use.

Most of these other passives and changes are fine at worst and exciting at best (really looking forward to the Volt and Mesa changes, and even though it's lower than I expected, also looking forward to the Nekros passive), except perhaps Ember's passive, which encourages a relatively fragile caster frame to take damage from some of the highest DPS enemies in the game, and, again, is problematic because it relies on enemy spawns cooperating on most tilesets, and is completely useless against Infested, and on the Earth Forest tileset (unless you added Scorches or Napalms to the spawns there).  This is perhaps another example of "decent concept, but virtually no actual use in the game"?

Sorry for the rant, but I was shocked that you gave this pretty much useless passive to a frame that much of the community already views as useless.  This was an opportunity to make it so that he is no longer the frame that everyone expects to be least used.  I still love Oberon, but this passive won't change how I think about him or play as him at all, which is a shame.

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22 hours ago, Zari2015 said:

WOW this is the most stupid passive...

Nova knocked down=nova dead. in 70% of the cases...

Also you really want to stay safe with her not being even touched by bullets...

Don't introduce this kind of passives, introduce the passives who can be improved for better uses...

I actually Really enjoy that passive. I mean what I really want to ask is..Are you going to cry? Because I just bought some tissues. Want some? 

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Please give us an option to still increase our FOV with Volt's Speed.

I for one really liked the effect as it made zipping through tight enviroments much easier.

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i see many people complaining about some passives and reworks to be useless, and see this thing from only perspective, for instance the much talked oberon passive, we all know there arent much wildlife in every tileset right? We all know about the new starcharts and if you follow devstream or not but things are going to get rework. Planets and tileset all along, but no you guys just hate the ideas so much you want to complain. You think its useless i think its great. Where's the sense of optimism guys. DE are doing great job! Very happy to see my volt geting rework. Keep going thi these stuffs.

 

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5 minutes ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

DE isn't going back to Greedy Pull after what they saw of it. It was too good of a Mod that #1 became the #1 ability used for a while! If a passive had a similar advantage, think Peacemaker and Draco and Tonkor are issues now??? Any other frame lover will make the Nitain threads look tame!

I didn't even think of greedy pull to be resurrected to form we had, i just proposed to magnetize be able to pull pickups. And yes, i was playing at that time and know why they have nerfed GP. Ok, it could restore energy, but again, at not the same rate as we both know the GP could do in the beggining. It will have the same limit of collecting pickups from a small radius, not the whole map. Apart from that, it would require to use two abilities and many casts of those to collect the pickups from the area.

It won't even be a GP anymore, as the pickup collect would affect the Magnetize. I named it this way as the idea will cover with this, what GP is meant to be.

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