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Dev Workshop: Passives, Volt, Mag & More!


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1 hour ago, Redstoneman said:

Please give us an option to still increase our FOV with Volt's Speed.

I for one really liked the effect as it made zipping through tight enviroments much easier.

Options are good.

Let's use Overwatch as a fresh example  : Each character has a separate gameplay and HUD options tab. Having specific options for some frames, like displaying or not enemy/allies life for instance, does not have any downsides for players.

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We are also making Shooting Gallery be a permanent buff on Mesa when cast, but Allies will still have it rotate.

Finally! Now we're talking. No longer a solo mode survivals only... *sob* 

Edited by Nomen_Nescio
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6 hours ago, Chroia said:

Suggestions? Hm.

For 3 seconds after recieving Speed, you can press your 'Interact' button to accept/decline the buff.

Add a button to the Q interface, which the cursor always starts at, to accept/dispel an incoming buff. Faster than the above and less likely to cause conflicts.

Have the Speed pickup drop individually, clientside, 10m ahead of the player in the direction the camera is facing.

None are particularly good (I like the last least), but they're the best I can come up with. I'd go with an 'opt out' toggle as well, I think.

These are good.

Interact would interfere with doors, hacking, picking up sabotage package/snatched weapon... but all you'd have to do is press it twice or aim at nothing first.

Q dial has a default slot for which there's a keybinding.

Individual pickup ahead of the player is probably the most functional of these and most awkward to program.  Both this and DE's suggestion remind me of Pacman.

For consistency with Limbo solution, an opt-out toggle key/setting would still be best I think.  It should probably be specific to Volt, Limbo & Vauban bounce pads.

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Some of the Passives, to put it bluntly, just suck.   Oberon and Loki in particular.  Also the way volts speed works with the opt in drop thing, is just horrible.  What if you are ahead of volt, it won't do anything for you now.  Honestly I have to say it doesn't seem like it was thought through. 

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4 minutes ago, lukaself said:

Options are good.

Let's use Overwatch as a fresh example  : Each character has a separate gameplay and HUD options tab. Having specific options for some frames, like displaying or not enemy/allies life for instance, does not have any downsides for players.

Don't know about Overwatch, but Blizzard normally allows addons for that customization (like moving health frames and customizing the UI) for personal preferences.

It gets harder to keep up with health and more when it's at some corner of the screen, and you're busy killing targets, for example.

That combat text comes with a target bar with health/mana to keep focused on the job, too.

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4 minutes ago, ClockworkSpectre said:

Some of the Passives, to put it bluntly, just suck.   Oberon and Loki in particular.  Also the way volts speed works with the opt in drop thing, is just horrible.  What if you are ahead of volt, it won't do anything for you now.  Honestly I have to say it doesn't seem like it was thought through. 

Probably why this feedback thread! lol

Passives are passive, not active abilities (like having to now click on objects to get them to work, they do the opposite [like instead of clicking the Warlock's gate, it's now automatically shoots a player through]).

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Regarding the niche of the passives,

Certain passives are going to actually be in practice for only 1 faction, for example oberon. This frame is pretty useless imo and the fact that his passive only works against draks, kubrows and kavats (all grineer animal life) is far too niche. The limit of niche should be that it has some sort of mission long use, that will assist gameplay across all factions.

Another issue of this are range passives for example, Vauban's passive. It is very difficult to stay within 10 meters of each other in a fast pace game like this.

 Besides these minor issues, it is nice to see DE go back and give passives to all warframes. Thank you for your work.

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I strongly disagree with the passive for Ash: you essentially are giving him more power strenght, since his only two damage abilities strongly rely on slash procs. What he needs is something more ninja-like, somthing like he becoming less visible during wall latch (similar to mirage's eclipse effect in the dark) or something else. Sure he doesn't need more strenght in his abilities.

 

Nyx passive is really a no for me. 1-it reduces even more the difference with loki, which is bad since their concept is totally different 2-the strenght of Nyx is her ability to turn enemies weapons against themselves, if the become disarmed what's the point? To me it sounds like a sort of nerf

 

Banshee's passive makes almost useless Silence, since it's secondary effect (the stun) it's not so relevant, unless you use the aument and negative range in a melee build. Why one should spend 75 energy to make silent weapons that are already silent? Yes, it could be useful for the squad, but the usefullness of the ability is still strongly reduced

 

Vauban's passive seems totally unrelated to the frame concept. He should have something like flat status chance bonus or something similar, not a want-to-be-tank passive

 

Regarding Volt rework, i hope you update Speed to affect movement in general, including reloading, knockback recovery and so on. Also, Shock need more status reliability (now somtimes, in particular when an enemy is making an action/animation, the electric proc does nothing to the enemy except for the visual effect)

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On 5/25/2016 at 7:14 PM, Archwizard said:

The problem with the suggestion for Oberon to tame wildlife is that it exacerbates (and is the latest symptom of) a long-standing issue with him: Due to the confusion of whether he's supposed to be a Paladin or a Druid, he's sorely ineffective at both roles, as he's overloaded on effects intended to convey both themes. He needs a major rework that will push him toward one or the other, rather than straddling the line between the two. Additionally, the wildlife passive would be equally as niche as having Hydroid gain benefits whenever he's standing in water: It just affects way too few tilesets to even be considered, as the effect would be inconsistent.
As some alternative suggestions: Oberon blocks additional damage with any melee; blocked attacks have a chance to blind attackers; breaking his shields will blind nearby enemies.

OMG Finally someone recognizes my struggle! We're already getting a fairy frame so I'm in the paladin side.

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1 minute ago, Lyntrox said:

Another issue of this are range passives for example, Vauban's passive. It is very difficult to stay within 10 meters of each other in a fast pace game like this.

I personally feel DE mixed activated abilities from set-it-and-leave-it abilities.

Passives aren't activated like abilities, they're SECONDARY that comes from using abilities -- a DoT; a heal; extra mana stuff.

These passives are fun stuff for some, but also change actives into passives (like force clicking within a small range -- in groups that will never do. Someone is always going to be OoR of Volt's speed buff and have to come back, click, and then play catch up in groups that race to the end. Turning an ability that kills the frame's #1 viability).

I think they want that Zenika's group speed buff to be more used (but not with that shield penalty. Troll with that ability the team will kill that player and camp his/her corpse, for added measure!).

DE really has to not fight with how games are played, but tweak it so they can even play within reason. Stop to click stuff will never be welcomed. It slows the groups down with zero benefit to slow down (why all the complaints about Volt!).

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Hey DE, I'm sure you've gotten plenty of feedback on limbo but I wanted to offer up my thoughts for a new ability to replace rift surge.

Why not give him a little bit of usefulness in a fight and play off a bit more utility involving the Rift? If he is supposed to have mastered the rift, and idk if it's just me but I've always thought that this ought to involve portals or otherwise tears like we see on the new moon missions. I think he ought to be able to make some sort of portal. He could make a smaller portal that he can shoot into with his primary, or could somehow "rift charge" his primary in a way that makes his ammo instantly go through a rift portal similar to portals in the void. These rift charged projectiles could then instantly go through the rift to auto-seek targets at random. It could have a mild range and low-ish duration so it's not too OP, and its damage capabilities would depend on what primary you are using.

Sorry if I'm not wording this for a proper visual. Limbo would basically have to stand in one place to fire through this rift portal and similar portals would appear at random around nearby enemies for a guaranteed hit. The duration could be around 10, but with some weapons that is a ton of time to do some damage. The player would have no control over who was targeted making it a limited crowd control that has some hazard to it which seems fitting given the instability associated with the rift. It seems especially fitting with what you're doing with Mesa's peacemaker and makes it distinct from blade storm as well.

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On 5/25/2016 at 4:10 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Ember: Receiving a Heat Status effect will regenerate energy for the duration of the Status effect (10 energy per second) and increase Power Strength by 35%.

No. Just no. 

There are only a handful of enemies that actually use Heat damage and at the level of play where these bonuses actually matter, Ember receiving a Heat proc is essentially a death sentence. Ember is not a tank, she has never been a tank, she will never be a tank, so she shouldn't receive a passive that depends on her taking damage. The earlier concept (so the leaks tell us) where she received these buffs from igniting enemies, despite potentially being OP with the value of these buffs, was much more sensible.

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On 5/25/2016 at 4:26 PM, ToraTakeri said:

I would personally love to see Volt's speed ability be a channeled ability in which your speed increase is controlled by scrolling the mouse wheel. The faster you go, the more energy per second required. My idea for a new ultimate would again be a channeling ability in which Volt creates a static barrier following in his footsteps and slowly rescinds. Enemies that touch this barrier would become stunned and arc electric damage to nearby enemies. If Volt connects with the end of his electric trail it creates a closed circuit and all enemies within the trail become rapidly struck by bolts of electricity originating from the barrier and passing from one to another. Enemies that die while under this effect explode in an AoE damage burst. The faster you go, the bigger a circuit you can create. 

That speed thing wouldn't work on console, so it's probably not really something they can add in. 

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I don't know if too many people agree with this but I personally see passives as a way of extreme immersion into the character.

Ash's passive is pretty spot on, and so were trin's, volt's, and banshee's. However, hydroid's is brilliant, but should be a 100% chance.

Never make a passive have a chance to proc. It makes the player unable to make it a useful attack. Passives should be reliable and safe to use in any circumstance. As for Oberon, I completely understand how his passive would be useful, but does it work an moas? And Ember's..... ummm.... you want us to get hurt on purpose just to get energy?! Maybe give ember the ability to get a percentage of her dps as energy, meaning that her fourth (WOF) will become a challenge and a nice bonus. It will mean that she will be forced to move to the closest enemy crowd just to keep her fires going, after all, all fire needs fuel.

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Hi,

 

I am really excited about mag and volt rework as for Mesa little thing, i was waiting something like since a long time now and i didn"t think thing will be so cool and fun for mag. (i still thing mag Syndic mod for Pull need a little change to something like: "pull X% of the item around for you (power can increase the %) Y% to pull thing for mate (Y = X/2) and only Energy, Health and maybe ammo.

 

About all new passive, i think many of them are interesting, really, but there is ... big mistake of maybe thing who seems cool but not really useful or even fun.

For me the perfect example is Loki ... i know, loki is too powerful ! That obvius, i played him a lot and try to stop because of the easiness to play him, but, his passive is totaly useless because actually, except in Some Spy map that not interesting with the Parkou 2.0, with the old one i will say, "interesting" because maybe we will see something like "increase stamina bar" or something like this, but who really use the wall thing ? even the wall attacks ? i don't saying this never happen but really not enough for a passive around this and there mush more to do with loki.

There isn't real relation between Loki from warframe and the Nordic God, or just the "tricky" aspect, so why not something around this.

There one thing, maybe "special" for some: Loki can give to his clone or some specter (Clem, and other humanoid) his secondary weapon.  (maybe too powerfull, but just an idea, and if the clone or else die, the weapon fall on the ground)

An other Idea for Loki; "Loki have a third jump" (too OP too imo ^^)

 

About Limbo, i am happy your saying this, because he really need something. I am Leading Raid and we did the strategic without looking anything on internet at the start, and now i try to found a place to limbo, as an Energy support instead of the Borring Trinity EasyWin but.. Limbo isn't suited for teamplay indeed.

If Limbo alone can do great thing with the rift mechanics (with or without the soon new passive), when there is mate and in random game without clan mate or friend, people always insulting you or just rolling to evade the rift all the time or just don't know how rift work ... and if they don't read when you explain then what can we do ?

The impossibility to loot in rift is an issue but not the real issue, after all, now, sentinel are rifted too so they can survive and so we just have to deal with it, but what about other ?

An exemple, the New Mag... i really love the new mag and the possibility to make enemies drop energy orbs and other combo avaible with this and simaris mod etc, but... if limbo rifting me... i am #*($%%@ ! i cant drop thing so even if limbo use is "4", cataclysme, i can hit enemies more easy but i cant drop the energy orb i will pop fro enemies.

Not an issue ? limbo regen me ? well, only 2/s, that not so mush when you re spaming spell, and an energy orb is 25, not really the same thing, and if i play with simaris mod (new mods) so a mate who want help or want just play his frame will reduce my capacity if i use this, same for Focus Zenurik "energy spike", again there is the limbo rift regen but that will not be as the effect will give.

I talk about Energy orbs who are a little conter-balanced by the rift Regen but that the same with Health orb and Simaris mod who give armor, or for those who play Around orbs like Necro Equilibrium + health conversion, same for oberon and there is more of course.

So even if looting for us as Limbo isn't really an issue it can be one for mates even if we want help them and even if we try our best to place well our rift or cataclysm. Limbo is one the Warframe who can totaly ruin a defense/interception/survival/excavation mission or make there team leave even if he do his job well, so why play such a frame ho is so hard and hated. I love Limbo but i cant play him and sorry but this new passive will change nothing even if he his interesting.

I did a post with many other point and this Reply is too still too big :/ sorry.

 

Oberon Passive is a joke i hope... because who care to make neutral (kubrow/catbrow and those thing in the desert) being friendly ... Oberon deserve better and if the concept around Oberon is like if he is a nature ancient, a protector who make enemies there friend and make them fighting each other during he protect his friends, then why not a protection passive or healing or around this, because he have definitively enough Radiation tools, this passive is.. useless... I don't see any case where this can be interesting, even if in cross fire, a side became your friend, an spell 1 or 4 do the job too, so except those Oberon who use only the spell 2 and 3.(i don't see any reason to not use the 1 and 4 spell)... what the point ?

And that an other passive only interesting on some map and/or planet... boring... Oberon VS corpus and this passive is useless...

Instead why not: Oberon Heal Friend at 15m around him healed for x% of the damage deal by his spell. A little percentage, to not make this overpower, but enough to help him to be a real Heal support because actually, even with the new syndic mod for the 3, an healing Oberon isn't viable at all ! And to play him as an Healer we cant push 3 and wait, impossible ! the healing is too slow for some enemy lvl (around 40... "40" !!!!, that so bad, what a shame for Oberon !), so to heal we must Spam the spell, so using the spell 2 to deal damage and so heal a little more will be really interesting, but that just an idea.

An other thing can be: The Armor Bonus from Oberon Spell Last for 10s

For me "This" can be the real passive of Oberon because with the Parkour 2.0 you mad the Game really Dynamic, a lot, we run and jump everywhere and enemy didn't really stay at there place.

So the spell 4 and his syndic mod is close to useless for the Armor part, and the 2 is interesting only for Melee and in Mission where we take position, all the other are too dynamics to take advantage of this.

 

-------

 

A Last Words, You give us a new selective spell with the vauban 2nd spell rework, as ivara 1st spell, that great, thanks. Inaros have push and Hold spell functionality.

Can you give to those Warframe the possibility to benefict from there syndic mod for themself when they keep the button pushed:

Oberon -> Smite + Smite Infusion

Volt -> Shock + Shock Trooper

Saryn -> Spores + Venom Dose

Frost -> Freeze + Freeze Force

Ember -> Fireball + Fireball Frenzy

 

Don't lie, nobody use them or close to, and there isn't real balance issue for not implementing this feature, There will still be a cost for using the spell, the effect will be on use only and so, because that for use, the isn't aoe effect or any damage. we can imagine a visual effect like spores on saryn when she do this or a freeze armor on the arms of Frost, Flame for Ember, Flower and wind effect for Oberon and Electricity with particles around the arms for Volt. This can be really cool, interesting and help to see more diversity in the Mod building, for Warframe "and" for weapon because of the elemental addition, maybe some weapon can be more interesting with this.

If you are afraid about balance just let us have Half of the bonus, but don't give us syndic mod who aren't usable for us when there is interesting things to do with.

Thanks for reading

 

------

 

Well, that all (still a lot and too mush, i know).

Thanks for reading, thanks for warframe team, everyone.

See you in game.

 

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On ‎5‎/‎25‎/‎2016 at 7:10 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Banshee: All weapons are treated as silent.

So, what the point of this? She literally have a ability that already covered this. I feel like DE kinda went lazy mode of the other passive as well...

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On 5/25/2016 at 6:34 PM, DeMonkey said:

Slightly disappointed. Passives are situational at best, useless at worst and will hardly have an impact on how I play. I actually get some use out of Rhinos passive for instance, bullet jumping into a crowd knowing they'll be CC'd. 

I don't see myself repeatedly jump slamming my melee as Hydroid, he's far too squishy.

I don't see myself getting set on fire as Ember, there's like 4 enemies in the game that have a chance to do it.

Why would I need silenced weapons as Banshee?

How often are other Warframes within 10m of you, in a game where you can travel that distance in under a second?

Sorry guys, I've liked the passives you made so far, but these are mostly meh imo.

Vauban's perk is a terrible idea. But I can understand the concept behind banshee's.

1: It allows her to use all weapons for stealth gameplay, including those awefully loud snipers and opticore style guns.

2: The in-game noise system means that banshee would be seen as less of a threat, thus making enemies target other (louder) players.

It seems like trash at first, but once you think about it, it's actaully pretty cool. That and oberon's, as his could potentially control those stupid drahks and (hopefully) moas! Turning the tide of a hard fight easily. I think limbo and ember were the ones I really disliked, that and nova's butt-slam. Too little range on her AOE knockdown.

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I'm not really enjoying the Volt rework so far. Already posted about this on a few threads. I believe Volt as we wondered a "Potent alternative to gunplay" will die. The 4th is indeed kinda cool, only thing I can say worked out good enough, but still, not enough to save the Frame. The passive is also quite cool, and depending on numbers and effectiveness, it might turn out quite good. But the Frame as a whole, post rework, looks downward terrible. I know we haven't seen it yet, but we can conjecture on what was disclosed, and man, I might not be the best person to infer how this will work out, but I certainly believe Volt will go from my top 1 to never played, ever again. I seriously couldn't care less about FoV or if a team mate that is miles away not being buffed. I'll wait the update and see how it goes, but expecting less than nothing from it already.

On the bright side, I loved that Frames are getting their passives, as it seemed utterly unfair that a selected few had them. We might have to post our feedback on how they turnout, but the initiative is indeed good!

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Just now, bomberman1770 said:

Vauban's perk is a terrible idea. But I can understand the concept behind banshee's.

1: It allows her to use all weapons for stealth gameplay, including those awefully loud snipers and opticore style guns.

Her #3 does exactly the same thing.

Aside from the stun there is no reason to use Silence anymore. If you do end up running with Silence on permanently then there is no reason to have it as a passive.

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a lot of the passives seem a bit too... situational, or pointless (silence pretty much already makes your weapon silent, enemies can't hear them. Oberon's passive is limited to specific factions and tile sets like earth and phobos. There are plenty of other examples of issues concerning the passives in these posts, so I dont need to go on). The Limbo and Mesa changes sound promising however.

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10 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Her #3 does exactly the same thing.

Aside from the stun there is no reason to use Silence anymore. If you do end up running with Silence on permanently then there is no reason to have it as a passive.

as a Banshee player, it's very different from having to cast silence and wasting energy for surviving compared to having silence on all the time. i for one am "ok" with it but it definitely could be better.

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Just now, homiedudemanguy said:

as a Banshee player, it's very different from having to cast silence and wasting energy for surviving compared to having silence on all the time. i for one am "ok" with it but it definitely could be better.

I believe he meant that since Banshee's getting a passive that does almost what her 3rd does, why keep the skill?!

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