Dev Workshop: Passives, Volt, Mag & More!

[Phyrak]

Can Volt have an alternate shock?

Just as how Ivara and vauban have switch skills, can we give volt's 1 a switch?

Let there be both a normal shock and a Palpatine mode just so he can fill the true caster as is written on the first page

 

3 pages of discussion on the idea

 

[hukurokuju5]

regarding LIMBO

Limbo's problem is his lack of survivability when having to trade damage with enemies in the rift. 

The reason banish is much more effective than cataclysm is the knockdown effect, effectively giving limbo 100% damage reduction from that enemy until it gets up.  Cataclysm, however, does not have this knockdown and also has a cast time recovery that ends after the enemies are in the rift.  This is basically opens limbo up to get sucker punched/shot while recovering from the cast animation.  

 

suggestion:

1) make player entry/exit to rift have a short, high damage reduction buff to limbo and allies  

          -  encourage more in and out of rift gameplay, centered around player entry/exit of rift

          -  increases limbo's value to his teammates

          -  helps limbo's survivability issue

 

2)  have enemy entry/exit of rift proc a knockdown

          -  encourage more in and out of rift gameplay, centered around control of enemies entry/exit of rift

          -  increases limbo's value to his teammates

          -  helps limbo's survivability issue

 

3) change cast animation on cataclysm to end before cataclysm expands, or , delay cataclysm expansion until after limbo has recovered from cast animation 

Edited May 27, 2016 by hukurokuju5

[DeMonkey]

6 hours ago, Hochstepanzerjager said:

1.) Then you don't have the right mods on him.

2.) And it didn't occur they might be planning to add more?

3.) Stealth/Spy frame, and better at it than Loki or Ash are.

4.) Extremely Static Defenses come to mind. The lower part of the Draco map when you defend the coffin on the tram is just the first one I think of and there's many others that fill that criteria of limited space to fight also. ( the coffin on the grineer platform elevator also fits this bill)

 

Look at you arguing with everyone, pretending only you know how to play the game and everyone else sucks. Cute.

1) Hydroid is squishy no matter how you build him, to pretend otherwise is stupid.

2) Basing a passives effectiveness around something that 'might' be added is stupid.

3) Blatant hyperbole, laughably so. Banshee better at stealth than Loki/Ash? Hahahaha! Oh dear. Thanks for that. I saw your other comment about Lokis invisibility running out at bad times, perhaps its you who doesn't know how to play the game? :)

4) Notice in my original post I said 'situational at best', this is a case of an overly situational passive, one mission type. Congrats on defending a passive that is useful in one mission type. (Not mentioning the fact that regular Vauban only gets 12.5 armour from the passive).

Stop defending things that are bad and can be made better, that's what feedback is for. And stop wording your posts in such a confrontational manner, you have no idea what you're talking about yet you're trying to talk down to people.

[polarity]

How about instead of having Ember gain energy when she receives a fire proc, make it so she has a small chance to gain it when she causes one with a weapon (because she can already guarantee plenty of procs with abilities).  That would make it so that it's more consistently useful, and not so dependent on having one of a small number of fire using enemies present.

It would also give players another reason to pick weapons that do fire damage, and give them a reason to choose between building for more status, to improve their regen for more ability use, or just build for damage.

[Arkvold]

2 minutes ago, polarity said:

How about instead of having Ember gain energy when she receives a fire proc, make it so she has a small chance to gain it when she causes one with a weapon (because she can already guarantee plenty of procs with abilities).  That would make it so that it's more consistently useful, and not so dependent on having one of a small number of fire using enemies present.

It would also give players another reason to pick weapons that do fire damage, and give them a reason to choose between building for more status, to improve their regen for more ability use, or just build for damage.

Honestly, I would totally support this.  It kinda reminds me of Fire builds in Champions Online, how you regain energy by proccing enemies with Clinging Flames from other Fire attacks.

[DarkOvion]

5 hours ago, lihimsidhe said:

Limbo... perhaps the frame with the coolest concept crossed with an underwhelming skill set.  When we have things in the game like Hysteria and Invisibility + Zenurick it's really time to look at letting Limbo become what he's meant to be.  

Warframe is a lovely and beautiful game.  It's also one of the most loot/drop heavy games I've encountered.  Warframe lives and dies by content.  Tenno live and die by drops. Limbo's kit takes him out of that core loop while in the Rift.  As long as his kit does that, he will always remain underwhelming. 

The suggestions I'm putting forward assume that the above change concerning picking up drops from the Rift are already in place.

Rift Tweaks

Enemies in the Rift take Damage Over Time. If for no other reason it is a shame to waste that burning white flame.  Looks so cool but does nothing mechanically.  This damage should be small but scales.  As in it does a percentage based damage instead of a set number.  If any damage did scale shouldn't it be Void damage?

Rift Storms. They already exist in the Sortie fluff text.  Make them a real thing.  Storms can make Limbo's abilities stronger or weaker depending on their intensity.  It can be visually represented (to start off) by simply changing the hue of the Rift.  Blue = Good storm.  Red = Bad Storm.  Yellow = WTF Storm.  This would make every visit to the Rift a decision to stay there or not depending on the Storm.

 

Abilities

Passive: While in the Rift, Limbo attacks and moves 20% faster. (note: thematically the holstering passive fits more with Mesa than anyone else)

1. Banish. No Changes.

2. Rift Walk. No Changes

3. Rift Jump: While in the Rift, Limbo can free aim teleport.  He doesn't need to be locked onto anything.  He simply aims to wherever and teleports there.  This would be affected by range mods.  So a Limbo with Stretch and Overextended should be able to pull off some crazy teleporting anime nonsense..  If an ancient Limbo could attempt to Rift jump to another planet surely his ancestors can Rift Jump a few dozen meters, correct?

4. Cataclysm: No Changes

Do this and I guarantee Limbo will receive some much needed love and attention.

Limbo 2016: Make the Rift Great Again!!!!

I'm sure the Rift used to do damage over time.. maybe I'm wrong, but yes, it definitely should.

Make that 300 Rift Damage, 300 per second would likely do it.

The Rift storm idea is... bad honestly.

Anything to make your powers RNG / potentially worse is bad.

Having a RIft Storm effect (maybe with lightning fork flickers or something) for Rift Surge being active would be fine, but not an arbitrary 'maybe it''ll be better, maybe it'll be worse' mechanic...

Plus, Rift Surge isn't bad, it's sorta needed.

My Tigris for example, does a base 43,787.4 damage per barrel. My Duration Limbo has a 3.6 multiplier, bring it to 157,634.64 base damage per barrel, or 315,269.28 with both. (With a 15% crit, 82.7 Status chance).

If I focused on strength, I could bring that up to 306,511.8 per barrel.
(If I use my Madurai passive that'll go up to 302,762.1744 a barrel duration build,  588,704.228 a barrel strength build
And I could go higher - Switching to Vicious Spread and such, I could hit 400,000 to 750,000 damage a barrel (800,000 to 1,500,000 total)

It also buffs the damage things in the Void take, taking the 650 I do as-is and bumping it to 2,340 or so, which isn't utterly awful, just not great at high levels.

[Aquasurge]

22 hours ago, nomoreraining said:

Worst change to Volt ever - he was an essential frame for raid speedruns and is now basically an Escape Velocity nova 2.0 - only worse. There is no reason to change into an "opt-in" system as the main problems lie with new players who could not handle the speedbuff, or who simply do not have a full grasp of the movement mechanics. Dont like moving at 3x the speed? They can always change from sprinting to walking which practically removes the speedbuff - but no, keep sprinting at a speed they cant handle, get stuck at doors and then complain on forums.

 

If there really need to be an opt-in system, then make it similar to limbo's rift (roll to dispel) - rather than a hammer nerf to group speed buff.

 

22 hours ago, -dicht.Amducias- said:

Amen.

if volt rework isn't as good as i hope than i will be forced to pray to the god of beer............... (aka DEscott)

[Jade-Lotus]

I worry that the Oberon and Ember passives are going to be mostly useless against the Corpus. Now, if Oberon's passive works with the drones, it won't be a problem. However with Ember's passive, compared to the grineer the corpus have nowhere near as many fire attacks. I don't think that every passive needs to be useful in EVERY situation, but I think that they should at least have some use with the bulk of the enemies. Finally, I think that Vauban's passive should have an automatic 15% boost to armor when you're solo. Just something to help those solo players.

Edited May 27, 2016 by Jade-Lotus
I had an idea about Vauban's passive.

[QTEila]

Just please..please don't screw with Limbos 3, the damage is fine, the damage is great in endurance, if anything make it an aoe aswell so he actually becomes you know..A VIABLE PICK.

It's a needed passive on his set of abilities and synergizes extremely well with how he plays out, focus more on making him team viable honestly. Seeing as the damage increase from surge is really useful for limbo in high level mission/play, gimping that is gonna make him even more useless.

Thankfully my fellow Limbo players have already stated how useful/needed it actually is for his kit.

Edited May 27, 2016 by QTEila
Forgot to add other info

[(PSN)Bowjangelz]

Volt

 

First off, you might want to scrap the “alternative to gun play” line. The rework overall (other than speed) looks like it will help him scale, but with the way that electric damage works, seems like Volt will still be using guns to do a lot of killing. (But maybe his 4th massacres now, I'll have to try it). 

The change to Speed I’m unsure of. I will need to play it, but it looks like I will wish it had just been a back flip to cancel his speed instead of a pickup.

The Shield change is interesting. Although I am wondering if the energy drain will cost more than it’s worth since it already has the draw backs of slowing the player and preventing primary weapon use. Does it need to drain energy too?

Overload looks much better from what I have seen. I look forward to trying it someday. (Console peasants must wait their turn).

 

Mag

 

I don’t know what to say about her yet. I’m hopeful, but you guys have broken my heart before with nerfs, so I want to be ready if this sucks. I just hope that in the end I don’t lose that feeling of immense power using her Polarize, even if now it means using several abilities to get to that giant map kill.

 

 

Passives

 

Ash – Wow, you guys really like Ash.

Banshee – I like this. But, maybe since this removes most of the reason for Silence to exist, Silence could have a longer stun that opens enemies to finishers? Her augment would still increase that damage. Or, Silence could at least be recastable? Silense will now cost 75 energy to stun, and you can't even use it again until way after the stun has ended. 

Ember – On first glance this seems silly since lower levels we won’t need the damage and at higher levels, well you can;t deal extra damage or use energy while you're dead. But, I will need to test. Maybe I will just enjoy the energy gain on lower levels.

Hydroid – Situational, vaguely funny passive for situational frame confirmed. Might be fun.

Limbo – Ok.

Loki – Maybe I will wall cling more often if I upgrade Aegis. I have no issue with this. Not powerful, but I don’t think passives should be op.

Mag – Sound nice. Could I trade all other frames’ passives in for this?

Nekros – Not needed if desecrating, but I suspect that’s the point. No real issue here.

Nova – Will have to see this in action. I want to ask for 10m, but 6m may be more balanced. 

Nyx – Please don’t. Really. DON'T. If this is her passive, for the love of Lotus, give me a way to turn it off. If I chaos, I want enemies to shoot each other. Even if the passive only kicks in after any ability is over, that will mess with my next cast of Chaos. No passive would be so much better than this.

Oberon – Eh. Can we count ospreys as Wildlife? If so, nice. If not… you must really not like Oberon. If he hangs out with Ash more, could he get some love?

Trinity – This sounds interesting. How far away? How much faster?

Vauban – Could we get bonus health or shield instead? Armor on such a low armor frame seems silly. Maybe we could be faster or reload more quickly if health or shield are too good. Also, it would be nice if he had a passive that worked for solo players. As others have said, maybe give him a portion of the passive he'd have gotten if 1 player had been within range?

Volt – Hmm. I’ll need to see this. Could be forgettable or could be amazing. 

Chroma - The color thing is a mechanic, please give this guy a passive. 

 

Mesa

 

I’ll have to give her a try when we get the rework. I am still holding out hope to someday be able to move while in Peacemaker, though. Even if it was only at a reduced speed. Thanks for the permanent Shooting Gallery. So good.

 

Limbo

 

He can be good, but he can be truly terrible. I rarely bring him to groups, and I am always tempted to leave when I see him in a group. To me, some simple changes that would help are:

1.       Cataclysm puts the whole area in the rift, right? That should mean that pick-ups in that area are also in the rift; let us pick them up. This would finally fix the last Limbo troll tactic of keeping the team from getting any pickups by keeping a huge area constantly in Cataclysm. Also, consoles should be in the rift with us; let us hack them. (Especially since enemies can). Power cores should be in the rift with us, let us hold onto them.

2.       Rift walk and Banish are pretty much the same. I don’t understand why they are separate abilities. Let him have something to buff his teammates? Anything to make people go, hey it’s a Limbo happily instead of aw man we have Limbo on our team.

3.       Let us banish consoles if you want it to cost more for us to hack in the rift. This isn’t a deal breaker, but I don’t get why hacking was taken away. Valkyr can hack in Hystaria…

I get that the rift concept can be used in smart ways to make him extremely powerful. But as he is now, many players would rather go without than to deal with all of the negatives.

 

Practical Feedback

 

I love Warframe for the powerful feeling it gives the players as they mow down hoards. After having your butt kicked around the star chart as a wee one without many mods, going back to give them hell is pretty amazing. But, once a player is fully geared, it's mostly super easy mode or don’t get shot even once mode unless we self nerf. Not much in the middle. While toning down some of our power may help that, it would also be nice to see if tweaking how armor scales or how the damage enemies deal scales (or the speed at which they scale) to see if that would make it feel like there is a middle ground, where a Tenno could survive without having to hard cc by using skill.

Edited May 27, 2016 by (PS4)Bowjangelz
Forgot Chroma, Just like you guys :P

[(PSN)Gaelic-_-Flame]

I wonder will we get a slightly upgraded passive for Zephyr as well? Something like increased Aim Glide time and maybe even less descending speed during Aim glide, making it close to hovering for extended durations. Or maybe something like Aviator to give Damage Reduction while mid-air or increase damage output while mid-air?

[Phantom_Eye]

I wonder  what Excaliburs passive will be

[AXCrusnik]

25 minutes ago, Phantom_Eye said:

I wonder  what Excaliburs passive will be

He already has one. He's skilled with swords (longswords, dual swords, nikana, and rapiers), and thus does more damage with them.

[DarkOvion]

26 minutes ago, Phantom_Eye said:

I wonder  what Excaliburs passive will be

He already has some.

Melee attack speed / damage boosts.

[Yaerion]

I need to see those new things ingame to judge their value, but from here, just few things seem underwhelming to me:

- Banshee's Silence. Even without the passive, it was needing a rework imo. Now an overhaul is just begging to happen for this power.

- Nova's Passive. The condition to trigger is problematic, the effect is pathetic. I'd suggest rather: Nova stores incoming damage (the force is reset after X seconds if she doesn't take damage), and then release an explosive pulse which knock downs and pushes nearby enemies away. The explosions can follow each other if there is enough incoming damage, becoming wider and wider.

- Vauban's passive: he hasn't enough armor for such passive, and the distance to allies needed for it is too small. I'd rather see something tactical like: when Vauban is near one of his devices, he gets very efficient at military manoeuvers: stunning reload speeds and weapon unsheathing, or when near his devices, he gets additionnal range or energy efficiency for the subsequent casts.

- Volt's passive: despite the fact that it seems "fun", additionnal damage is useless for endgame (and startgame, too, since normal powers already nuke everyone). Why not something like "enemies under electrical proc killed by Volt have an additionnal chance to drop an energy orb"? Well, anything else than "extra damage".

- Limbo's passive: When in the Rift, +10% movement speed+ 10% of damage dealt by his weapons regens his shields.
Power 3: Nil Umbra. Creates a vacuum of space around Limbo, converting all projectiles damage (enemies, allies and Limbo's) into harmful Void energy which attacks nearby enemies (on Limbo, similar effect than a Survival ending when there's no more oxygen, but he can't take damage else than that). On enemies, the whole damage stored is distributed evenly in real time). The range of this ability is not huge (like Umbra Lance, maybe 6m?).

 

That's it, for me, for now. Can't wait to test the changes.

[MokutoBunshi]

"We are considering replacing his 3 (Rift Surge) with something else."

 

*STARTS TO PANIC* No...no.... no no no...no WHAT ARE YOU DOING?

I am hoping REEEEALY hard right now you dont get rid of his X6 plus damage boost ~_~ I am REEEEEALY hoping. It took me a long time (year and a half?) to learn how to do this with limbo:

Forma setup:

 

Survival limbo(not worried about this one :P):

 

High damage ultimate-sniper limbo(Using an Eve trinity I cal clear many corpus waves VERY FAST):

 

 

Mini catclysm duelist limbo(The idea is that I use the X6 damage multiplier to allow any me to kill any enemy that comes in cataclysm with a channeling melee):

This one I am very worried about Cause it has a lot of delicate things going for it:

 

As you can see I use limbo as a true castor character with his energy pool as a resource and his abilities 'emptiness' are use to augment his strength, increase his survivability or for defense.

 

#1 Power

#2 Damage

#3 Tankiness

I get the power from rage, energy siphon, the rift and up to 4 more energy per sec from my tenno school Zenurik energy over flow THAT IS +6 ENERGY PER SECOND!

Then with primed flow and all that energy I use quickthinking to get the tankiness I need for melee fighting and if need be I can channel to multiply that weapon damage by 1.5 as well!

Ill be okay if this is no longer possible. But now that you see the possibilities... could you put some thought into this? please?

Lastly, I hope that reload speed isn't his passive in the rift, cause he needs more power synergy (or just more power in general) in all things rift. Hes got energy, health covered(quick thinking and rift), speed and damge(definately damge! XD) covered. and on the other hand I don't even use guns. 70+% of my primary use has been bows. :P

 

But please, think about this.

(unless your plan was already to just make that X3-6 damage in the rift his passive and just give him another skill...in which case that is great!)

 

]\'[

Edited May 27, 2016 by MokutoBunshi
To make a positive guess

[Ole_G]

Quote

Banshee: All weapons are treated as silent.

Maybe buff damage when you have silent weapons?

Quote

Loki: 10x Wall-Cling duration!

" All weapons are treated as silent." - that's will be better for Loki instead augment!

And yeah... x10 W-C it's so OP!!!!!!!!11111oneoneone

Quote

Nova: When Nova is down, she will knock down enemies in a 6 meter Radius

... chance to deal radiation damade to enemy with your 1st skill or weapon?

Quote

Nyx: Enemies affected by any of Nyx's powers have a chance to lay down their weapon ( become disarmed )

Disarm? Loki? Disarm... Loki...

 Psychic bolts - useless skill, so maybe you can baff it with 20-40% chance to drop additional energy or ammo when it hit a terget?

Quote

Vauban: Other Warframes within 10 meters give you 25% bonus armour.

Vauban - it's a support frame, so why not a buff to allies? 20-25% to shield recharge and/or 10-20% shield capacity for your allies.

 

And where Saryn buf?!

[funguy217]

 

On 5/25/2016 at 7:32 PM, -RIPD-Unduku said:

Thats not very good DE, if i use Mind Control i always try to get a Enemy with a big fat Weapon like a Bombard. Its a bad idea that i minimize my own power by disarming him. Maybe you can chage it to somtehing like this:

Enemies who was affected by any of Nyx's powers have a chance to lay down their weapon ( become disarmed ), after the powers Duration stopped.

In the devstream they said that enemies that are mind controlled will not be disarmed until the duration is over.

[JohnViande]

I just wanted to come back to this:

Quote

We are also making Shooting Gallery be a permanent buff on Mesa when cast, but Allies will still have it rotate.

So now the buff is permanent on Mesa, but is the crowd control still rotating as well? Please I hope the answer's no, Mesa would be my all time favorite Warframe if the CC would remain on the caster.

[EroMate]

Oberon need a second passive without the situational passive.

Banshee too because all silent weapon is ok but player are not all the time "silent" all of the mission.

 

[iquaniqua]

21 hours ago, NoggDog117 said:

While I agree that the points made here are valid, these are passives we are talking about, you're not going to be using them actively. They are not supposed to be giant buffs to the 'frames they belong to, so we should stop treating them as such.

You're right about them not being buffs and things we use actively, but the problem here is also that they're just random passives that don't go with the frames kit.

If i look at LoL's Riven, she is an AD champion who has no mana, her cooldowns are not long and her q can be used 3 times, meaning she'll be hitting you with a lot of abilities while meleing you and her passive boosts her next attack after an ability, which goes really well with her kit. But here it's no like that, if we look at ember, she's a squishy frame who's all about damaging enemies and even has an augment that knocks down enemies to keep her from taking damage even more, but her proposed passive would require you to intentionally tank damage if you want to utilize it and even then you have to get a proc. I really like nekros' passive since he can use despoil and thus regain the life he lost by using his farm ability and volt's seems pretty good as well, if he's using his 2 and sprinting everywhere he'll most likely be on the ground an will thus power up his passive, i'm cool with pasives like that but really dislike the ones that are not useful for the frame's kit.

[Soulvengeance]

" Oberon: All wildlife (neutral or enemy faction) within a 10 meter range of Oberon will become allies and fight for Oberon for 20 seconds. "

First, Oberon was the first warframe I bought using plat, simply do to always being druid or paladin type classes in other games.  However, Oberon in more recent months and content has dropped of significantly in use do to utility not quite being up to par, damage being usless, heals done better by other frames, and our personal surviability being a joke in later content and Sortie.  With the above passive, I do not see it helping him much in later content such as voids and OD.  However, one addition to it might make it very viable and play into the lure of the frame.  Being we are nature based type warframe, perhaps make this passive more beneficial when Kubrow companion is equipped?  Our abilities greatly suffer later on from enemy armor count and Oberon's base armor leaves him very squishy.  Perhaps the above could be changed to

Oberon: All wildlife (neutral or enemy faction) within a 10 meter range of Oberon will become allies and fight for Oberon for 20 seconds. Additionally, While Kubrow is accompanying the Oberon, Both Oberon and the Kubrow will benefit From increased Armor, Ability Augmentation, or Protective Auras depending on Kubrow type.

 

Additional Armor: Raska grants Oberon and Kubrow 250 additional base armor and both have 10m innate threat booster.

Ability Augment: Chesa while Hallowed Ground is in Effect enemy units in skill effect receive corrosive status per second while in effect.

Protective Auras:  Sahasa: Provides 25% ammo conversion of unused ammo for currently equipped weapon, if melee is currently equipped 1% unused ammo is converted to energy.

                              Huras: 15% Kubrow finisher damage is restored as health to nearby Tenno 10m range if health is full, over charge is saved as shields.

                              Sunika: Targets effected by the kubrows finisher emit piercing cries of agony demoralizing nearby allies (enemies with respect to tenno) and inflicting puncture status.

 

In this manner, we get to bring nature with us to the fight instead of being restricted to Earth and Phobos, or the Arena's cat looking kubrows.  And yes I did barrow a bit from chroma's passive concept.  Is the above OP, not in comparison to 35% power str and 10energy/sec while on fire which it is real easy to light one's self up. Just some thoughts on a warframe I would love to see become more useful.

 

Great work DE hope the new patch goes smooth.

 

Soul

[Festinger]

I don't see the new bless working that well for the reason that at high(er) levels, the enemies can take down warframes faster than the sum of latency and human reaction.

[YeOlGameKnight]

On 5/25/2016 at 4:10 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Vauban: Other Warframes within 10 meters give you 25% bonus armour.

The only problem I really have with this is the aspect of soloing. I might be doing it wrong, but Vauban is the frame I grab when I want to solo something that needs to have multiple spots covered. For example; an interception nobody else is on, or the different enemy entrances in a defence. However if I do play solo I won't get any passive bonus whatsoever. If we could find some way to make the passive helpful without the need for other players in the game, it would be a great help. STILL THOUGH great job guys! Thanks for the dedicated updates! 

[Lancars]

Vauban's Passive is bad. You HAVE to be on a team for it to work and even then his armor is low. So his passive isn't good.