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[DE]Rebecca

Dev Workshop: Passives, Volt, Mag & More!

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59 minutes ago, RahuHordika said:

You... actually went with the wildlife passive for Oberon... what is wrong with you Scott?

He really wants Paladin frames to be Druids???

ACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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38 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

We are also making Shooting Gallery be a permanent buff on Mesa when cast, but Allies will still have it rotate.

This is a nice step up for Shooting Gallery, though actually utilising it will be the final measure. Could make for some interesting interplay with Muzzle Flash either way.

39 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

And now Limbo:

If we can, we will make more changes to him by tomorrow (cue the coffee machine). His passive is really not something we believe puts him in a place we think is near final. We are considering replacing his 3 (Rift Surge) with something else. Stay tuned!

I think that if we want to help Limbo we sincerely need to have a hard think on what we want the Rift to do as a utility. As much as the principle is there and, for a while, we've seen people able to do some notable feats with it as it stands, the fact remains that Limbo's unique mechanic runs directly against the Co-operative environment unless you're prepared in advance to make use of it.

Rift consistency is another issue, as I've seen enemy units getting much higher mileage out of being Banished than myself, such as Grineer still using Ramparts. This isn't meant to imply this hasn't been considered...but if Limbo is getting looked over then you cannot look at Limbo without first examining the Cataclysm in the room that is the Rift and its unclear function as a support tool; the costs it imposes for what it does do seems step especially when enemies, as noted with the above example, can still potentially utilise it more effectively than even Limbo himself.

If we can agree on what the Rift does to us and our enemies in a consistent manner in and of itself, we should then be able to look at Limbo and ask ourselves how our resident master of the Rift can use those traits to dominate anyone brought into his realm. It may not be akin to a Reality Marble perhaps (for want of analogy), but Limbo really should have the edge over anything in the Rift. Being upstaged by Grineer or Corpus hitting panels or Ramparts is...well...discouraging.

1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Oberon: All wildlife (neutral or enemy faction) within a 10 meter range of Oberon will become allies and fight for Oberon for 20 seconds.

Regarding Oberon, I personally think Archwizard has said all that I think should be said on the matter in general.

Still, that being said...with all due respect...Charm Animal is nice fluff, but it's somewhat limited to Grineer overall, and then Earth, Phobos and Derelicts for actual wildlife. Compared to Atlas' Knockdown immunity whilst on the floor (always there), Valkyr's 'nimbleness' (always there), Excalibur's 'Blade mastery' (always applies to Exalted Blade, thus always useful)...it's much less of a circumstance changer; even if it works, I rock Galatine on Oberon. Those short lived animal companions won't have time to do anything as I've already cloven them in half at that range.

Little that I care for power, it's still sort of...unfair if some Warframes get passives that immensely outperform others just by the simple 'always effective' trait. Not to say making all passives equally viable over all is a simple task, as I know for sure that's a lot harder than it sounds...but it's a good aspiration.

Last but not least...

1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Crush will now deal bonus damage to magnetized enemies.

Whilst I can't be sure how that works in practice yet (I am not a time traveller) from what I'm reading either 1) this means enemies affected by her new Magnetise skill which...that's four enemies. That's not really going to register or 2) Enemies afflicted by Magnetic procs...so whilst it might have more impact it would also mean that it...just does more damage as it generally procs Magnetic at least once on its victims anyway.

Compared to what we've seen of Magnetise, it just feels...almost like an afterthought. Again...this is going by how it reads so no disrespect, and we've not actually seen any demonstration of Crush changes whatsoever, so it's hard to really...think this is going to be that effective. Maybe it's better than it sounds but...as of yet, I can't say I'm likely to even notice much of a difference unless it's a stark boost in damage.

End of the day, sorry for going on, as always.

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I think that the Nyx passive is not good UNLESS the chance applies AFTER the power ends. Because when i cast Chaos i want the enemies to shoot each other not to be desarmed. Last devstream something similar was discussed about Mind control (whats the point of controlling a heavy if he drops his weapon?), so if the same solution talked in the stream is applied to all her powers it will be nice; im also thinking this could be great for the players like me that use absorb to knock down enemies. Also the chance should be at least 25% (i mean look at the ash passive!)

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Not a fan of Loki's, the only time I've ever seen someone on a wall is to climb up it and get off of it.  Ember's rarity of even being able to catch fire makes hers a little iffy.  I agree that Limbo's should be changed and that will just have to be observed later.  Mag's, Trinity's and Nekros' could be good if the range was further than listed for Nekros.  And Vauban's seems a little lack-luster, but I can't tell if that's due to me being a solo player or if it's because 10m is pretty small in this game.  

The rest of these look good and I appreciate where the DEVs were going with them.  Even BROberon's animal farm is helpful due to Kavats and Kubrows (if it were more useful for the other factions it'd be much better, but this is a good start!)

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1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Loki: 10x Wall-Cling duration!

Genuine noob question, not trying to be snarky: What do you use wall latch for? I have never used it anywhere with any frame and I can't imagine how it would improve my experience if I did.

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So, first off, not sure why Volt's shield needs to limit weapon usage AND drain energy while it's being held.  It's not like it'd be explicitly game breaking(Especially seeing it already relies on Duration, it only protects from the front when grabbed, etc etc).  Depends on the wording, but I'd rather this not become a useless niche(Keep in mind that it's very easy and very cheap to throw out another shield).

As for passives...I'll just tackle the ones I have issues with.

Ember: Receiving a Heat Status effect will regenerate energy for the duration of the Status effect (10 energy per second) and increase Power Strength by 35%.

This is so close to being useless, I don't know where to begin.  First off, the only faction that you'll more than likely be getting hit by Heat procs with his Grineer.  Furthermore, while the proposed effects are powerful, it's nowhere near the same strength as Ash's passive, or Excalibur's.  I'd much rather have something more general use, but kind of weaker, than something that's strong and will activate a good 1% of the time.

Hydroid: Every Melee Ground-Slam has a 50% chance to lure a Tentacle that will last 15 seconds.  

..Why?  Iunno, just doesn't seem that good to me.  Or even interesting.

Mag: Vacuum effect on every Bullet Jump.

Once again, a passive that just doesn't sound that good.  Hopefully her rework makes up for that.  

Nyx: Enemies affected by any of Nyx's powers have a chance to lay down their weapon ( become disarmed ).

Uhhh...I have a MAJOR issue with this if it counts with Mind Control!  When I control a Bombard, I want them to shoot their missiles, not use a shock prod.  Depending on how this goes, this passive might straight up make Nyx WEAKER.

Oberon: All wildlife (neutral or enemy faction) within a 10 meter range of Oberon will become allies and fight for Oberon for 20 seconds.

So..an ability that'll work on all of..one faction, and pretty subpar on most planets(Heck, I'd say in general).  How about something befitting his Paladin nature?  Enemies attacking him take extra damage(A Smite Evil sort of passive), or a low-key health regen when near people(Lay on Hands).  If y'really want to go with a more Druid sort of thing, how about a buff towards Kubrows and Kavats(Like perhaps they use their abilities more)?  There's so much you can do with Oberon in this case.

Vauban: Other Warframes within 10 meters give you 25% bonus armour.

 This one...just..doesn't seem to fit.  Iunno, I think it'd be cool if he got something that more showed his tactical nature(Like a small buff to "tactical" weapons like Castanas, Penta, etc).

 

Some of these are alright, but there are clear...I don't want to say "Biases", but some are just clearly better than others(Ash's, for example, will be a big buff to his Blade Storm, 

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@DE.Rebecca : Im hoping volt's speed buff rework is not as bad as it sounds. The purpose of using a speed volt build is to make ur allies move faster. If they have to opt-in each time its going to be a huge let down. Especially if volt is behind the players and they have to track back to get the speed buff. Hopefully DE changes it and players can only "opt out" of speed if they pick up instead of "opt-in". Still gonna reserve the final verdict after update is out and tested it! Great work on the game and keep the awesome stuff coming..:)

Edited by Kyl0Ren
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1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Nova: When Nova is down, she will knock down enemies in a 6 meter Radius

warframe___nova__colours__shaded__by_bab

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2 minutes ago, Blakrana said:

Last but not least...

Whilst I can't be sure how that works in practice yet (I am not a time traveller) from what I'm reading either 1) this means enemies affected by her new Magnetise skill which...that's four enemies. That's not really going to register or 2) Enemies afflicted by Magnetic procs...so whilst it might have more impact it would also mean that it...just does more damage as it generally procs Magnetic at least once on its victims anyway.

Compared to what we've seen of Magnetise, it just feels...almost like an afterthought. Again...this is going by how it reads so no disrespect, and we've not actually seen any demonstration of Crush changes whatsoever, so it's hard to really...think this is going to be that effective. Maybe it's better than it sounds but...as of yet, I can't say I'm likely to even notice much of a difference unless it's a stark boost in damage.

End of the day, sorry for going on, as always.

It's why the feeling meter on Mag is cautious to say the least. She has gotten so many nerfs -- outright nerfs -- since her introduction, that WHAT will she become be more the question.

She needed rework that's for sure, but reading this it looks like a pass through more so the sorties can last, than optimization of a frame that's a true glass cannon. Was hoping for something to better survive, as that's one of main complaints in groups about her, needing revives. Even a Arcane Mage can survive more and that's the epitome OF a glass cannon.

But we'll see.

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on the question of limbo i was wondering maybe if A) in rift pickups i could live with no datamass or energy cores but just ammo and mods would be nice or B) make it where enemies in the rift take a noticeable accuracy penalty or even a radiation proc(could be a nice augment) it has to be traumatizing being thrown into a different plane of exsistence

a replacement for rift sure, here are my two credits

riftquake

knocks down all enemies in the rift (regardless of where limbo is) and makes them stay down (like that bursa's slam)

or 

riftgap

creates a deployable gap that can be shot through into the other plane and can also be walked though to teleport (max of 2)

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I think the disconnect  here is that some feel that a passive should be a game changer, almost like a 4th ability. I dont think thats DEs intention.

That said- i think Oberons passive should affect drones too. (Maybe even infested drones too?)

And i feel that Limbo got shafted. His passive shouldn't feel like a part of his ability.  He should get an auto banish  like the Frost passive.

 

Edit: on 2nd thought,  maybe an auto banish wouldn't  work,  but he does need a passive thats "passive"

Edited by Hypernaut1
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Just now, Hypernaut1 said:

I think the disconnect  here is that some feel that a passive should be a game changer, almost like a 4th ability. I dont think thats DEs intention.

That said- i think Oberons passive should affect drones too.

And i feel that Limbo got shafted. His passive shouldn't feel like a part of his ability.  He should get an auto banish  like the Frost passive.

i think oberons should affect chargers as well as drones give him useablity against all factions

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3 hours ago, Ceryk said:

Volt didn't need much of a rework. If you know how to play him, he's far from useless even without being tweaked. As for the speed thing, I HATE having speed forced on me. I don't want or need it. When I use it on Volt, it's for emergencies.

(If you know how to play him) It really isn't as simple as you have to play him a certain way to be effective. 

Speed is one of the main reasons any one even plays Volt. Also if you were playing Volt "correctly" you wouldn't have emergencies.

Now when you suggest that he doesn't need a rework but then you say you don't use one of his abilities...it is hypocritical because the point of reworks

are suppose to fix the problems with people not playing something all the way. So you don't like a speed boost which ruins your playing experience? Well then maybe there's a bigger problem, lets fix it. 

Also what don't you like about speed? Other than FoV.

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13 minutes ago, UFOLoche said:

So, first off, not sure why Volt's shield needs to limit weapon usage AND drain energy while it's being held.  It's not like it'd be explicitly game breaking(Especially seeing it already relies on Duration, it only protects from the front when grabbed, etc etc).  Depends on the wording, but I'd rather this not become a useless niche(Keep in mind that it's very easy and very cheap to throw out another shield).

It was designed by the fan suggestion in the first place to be a one-handed shield which you can only use sidearms with.

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This whole "Oberon = Paladin" thing needs to die a fiery death already.

No. Oberon is the King of Fairies, the consort of Queen Titania. Oberon is the Forest Lord, the... and one, ONE, reference to "paladin" ingame and that's all everyone says. Nothing about Oberon says paladin, all of his skins are clearly based off of fae creatures, insects and wildlife.

I think this is less "wants a paladin frame to be a druid frame", and more "wants to make it clear that this is the king of fae".

Maybe we should get a proper, extremely obvious, instantly recognizable "paladin" frame so this stops. Except... isn't that Excalibur?

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2 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

 

 

*And now Limbo

 

 

If we can, we will make more changes to him by tomorrow (cue the coffee machine). His passive is really not something we believe puts him in a place we think is near final. We are considering replacing his 3 (Rift Surge) with something else. Stay tuned!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

While you're taking a look at limbo do you think you could find a way to merge Rift Walk and Banish? right now they both kind of do the same thing and it's really a waste of an ability.

I'd suggest Banish with no target puts Limbo in the rift and maby make the targeting a little generous for enemies like the whole reticle rather than just the dot since it could be easy to slip up if that were the case.

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2 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Other players in range now get to 'opt-in' to Volt's Speed buff, by activating a pickup that Volt leaves behind on cast. This activation occurs on contact.

Rather then a 'opt-in', I think there should be an 'opt-out' instead where you hold down the action key for a few seconds to deactivate the buff. This could also be used for leaving Limbo's banish rather then having to roll, which hinders you from using a mobility action.

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Just some of my thoughts

Ember's passive would not be functional for majority of the content, why not make it were enemies that suffer a fire proc from ember either increase her power strength and regenerate energy?

Loki's passive i don't know many that really use wall latch furthermore would use it to just hang on a wall for the entire increased duration.  I think if your sticking with a theme here then loki's passive could perhaps be something along the lines of stealth, like give him banshee's passive

I think Oberon's should be able to be applied to more than just a few situations to avoid a 75% useless passive. Perhaps Oberon increases the health of all allies on team and it increase by the number of team members.

Mags passive is kinda redundant if using a certain sentinel. Should make Mag's passive have a 25-30% chance to stop bullets/projectiles fired at her.

Nova knocking down enemies, i'm not sure about this one will this continue to occur the entire time she's down or just when she initially falls? If the later then she could use something that works constantly, like enemies within x amount of feet from Nova are slowed down by x percent and attacking her will cause a blast proc

Hydroids passive would be useful if it was on all melee attacks and just reduce the % chance i suppose

Limbos could be he drains health from enemies that are present with him in the rift 

Nyx passive i'd think enemies kill by Nyx have a chance to emit a radiation proc to nearby enemies that will cause them to attack each other or drop their weapons.

 

On Mesa's Peacemaker ability why not add the ability to walk which if you do will increase energy drain without trying to turn this which should be a base power ability into an augment? Of course if you do the energy drain on peacemaker would need to be adjusted.

 

Anyways good job guys and glad your constantly bring things to the game

Edited by Fate0
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Like quite a few others have said, DE, before you start doing a ton of changes with Oberon, decide what Oberon is. Is he the King of the Fae, or a Paladin? Is his power more in tune with nature, or 'holy' powers?

Edited by TheEternalJester

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If you wanna leave oberon as the deer frame, why not have his passive be, instead of turning enemy wildlife, how about he has a chance to summon it? Like when he gets a status effect on him it can cause a wildlife creature(kavat,skate,kubrow,ect) to come and assist him.

On top of that, why give frames just ONE passive? Mesa has what...three? Why not give more frames a variety of passives, like keep the oberon passive as it is, and give him like one additional effect. This can be done to the other frames as well.

Limbo's passive is...meh, it should have been he and nearby allies can shoot banished(or if they are banished) enemies for 75% damage or some such kind of damage.

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I think all frames should have Mag's passive built into bulit jump and Mag gets Nyx's passive. Then find a new passive for Nyx.

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29 minutes ago, Demoonic said:

Most of these seriously need a second look....

By a long shot 

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DE I have only one request here regarding Limbo.

Either PLEASE for the love of all that is good in this world do NOT touch him with last minute ideas and coffee fueled operations- and wait to do a proper touch up at a later date- or go into it with the FULL INTENTION of following up later anyways whether or not it is well recepted or no comments are made at all. I personally feel he's in a good place now save for cataclysm not letting us pick up drops or bringing consoles into the rift to let you hack them. He's one of my favorite frames to play when the "kill everything/CC everything" frames get bland. I don't want to see a mistake made because you just decided last minute to do something. If rift surge is taken away he's losing his assassin role completely. Either his passive of rift buffs needs to include a HEAVY damage bonus to his weapons to make up for it, or rift surge should not be removed at all.

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