Dev Workshop Part 2: ...& more Warframe Changes.

[Fifield]

42 minutes ago, TheEternalJester said:

Don't mess with Warframes that don't currently need it.

Gamebreaking Warframes need to not break the game.

[chofranc]

Equinox pacify needs a revision too, it should have a damage reduction that does not fall with distance, right now you need to have the enemies near you like in 1-3 meters for the full damage reduction works.

[xRufus7x]

53 minutes ago, CptKornflake said:

Leaving things alone?

So like 

Nekros

Sayrn

Banshee

Greedy pull mag

Trinity already

Rhino

Oberon

Focus

Countless weapons and all that other crap that was nerfed because people were farming too quickly?

If people don't want to be invincible they shouldn't play invincible frames. If people want to play a crappy healer play Oberon. I can't sit here and take seriously the people who want to make a game more tedious and frustrating than it already is.

People find ways to relieve themselves of the grind, by using Mirage to stunlock enemies or using Excalibur to gain focus. It's not right to strip players from playing a game how they want to play IN A PVE GAME. If it was pvp I could understand but all of this makes absolutely no sense to me.

 

[Pyus]

1 minute ago, Fifield said:

Gamebreaking Warframes need to not break the game.

But will unbreaking gamebreaking warframes put the breaks the momentum of the game or will break the game and make farming more of a pain? 

[Aeromancer]

If you're going to rework Hysteria, then would you consider reworking Rip Line and Paralysis while you are at it?

For example, you could change Rip Line to be used as a mid-range whip with a combo system similar to Atlas's Landslide, with a chance to stagger and/or bleed struck enemies.  Holding the ability button while in the air will allow the use of Rip Line as it currently is now, while holding when on the ground makes it a charged attack that pulls in enemies.  This gives the ability a more usable function than the grappling hook that has little use since we have parkour 2.0, and opens up an alternative playstyle from the 'run up to the enemy and claw them' we currently have with Hysteria as well as giving her more range.

As for Paralysis, I was thinking maybe it could be changed to a toggled ability that triggers when Valkyr's shield is full.  Her shield gets depleted completely to discharge a radial wave that can knockdown/stagger enemies as well as drawing aggro, and the range of the wave is affected by duration.  This will give the ability a larger range to cover but at a larger cost for balance.  It would probably be a good idea to have it ignore the shield-reducing effect of Decaying Dragon Key to prevent abuse, or make it so that shields don't regenerate while the toggled ability is active and have it discharge waves at set intervals using a percentage of the shield.

[DuskLegendary]

22 minutes ago, -dicht.Amducias- said:

Hard mirage nerf and you want to adress blessing too? Do you realize that this effectively kills all LoR and JV in recruiting completely? This gamemode totally relies on this because dying or getting pushed once effectively fails / ruins the mission. This will inevitably and finally turn all raids completely into the failed concept that most players already consider them

Yeah I honestly don't think I'll be playing many Raids after this nerf wave is pushed out. Mirage is very much needed in a Raid, especially on the driving part that's already hard enough with a PUG group anyways, and if they nerf Blessing? Haha, good game fellas. 

Now the Hysteria nerf is actually warranted and the EB nerf is.. well, okay I guess. But now I feel like Mirage will just be a lot less viable and I'll probably scrap her now in favor of Nova since at this point, Nova will be able to lock down a map a lot better than Mirage.

Edited May 27, 2016 by DuskLegendary

[taiiat]

i knew this was coming a while ago, but still, thank god Prism will abide by Line of Sight.

 

making the negative side of Hysteria a bit less relevant is good, so that it isn't basically pointless - but there's still not much incentive to be in Combat, despite 'Berserker' being the theme of the Warframe, which suggests being in the center of a pile of Enemies being exactly where you always want to be.
but without any reason to specifically seek this out in Hysteria, Players still will not do so.
the Animations for Hysteria are just as problematic though, as they are.... still very clunky and feel bad to use. but as ever this is far from exclusive to just Hysteria, that's Warframes' Melee as a whole.

 

Damage falloff helps, but Exalted Blade is still the biggest joke of a Melee Ability i've basically ever seen. it's 'Melee', except no it isn't, it's a machine gun.
stillllll should only fire Sword Beams on certain strikes in Melee Animations and with Charge Attacks (actually, does it have any? i don't think it does but point still stands).

rather than being a machine gun that just happens to look like a Sword.

 

 

World on Fire and Maim are also good Abilities to take a gander towards.
and Spores, but that's mostly mathematical exploits, the functionality concept is sound.

2 minutes ago, Aeromancer said:

As for Paralysis, I was thinking maybe it could be changed to a toggled ability that triggers when Valkyr's shield is full.

 

unfortunately, the game is too unreliable and buggy for this to work out. i NEED to be able to spam Paralysis so that Enemies actually get affected by it.
you usually end up standing in front of the Enemy, spamming the Ability until the Enemy decides to finish it's current Animation so that the Ability will actually do anything.

2 minutes ago, DuskLegendary said:

Yeah I honestly don't think I'll be playing many Raids after this nerf wave is pushed out. Mirage is very much needed in a Raid, especially on the driving part that's already hard enough with a PUG group anyways, and if they nerf Blessing? Haha, good game fellas. 

good.
then Digital Extremes will have to actually make 'Raids' that are fun, by not making them copy paste boring simulators like every other 'MMO' does.

because nobody will be playing them, which instantly points giant flashing arrows at them to reinforce that they're lame and are a problem.

Edited May 27, 2016 by taiiat

[Magnulast]

Trinity blessing suggestion 2#

Bless maintains infinite range.

Bless can now revive players faster with energy, anywhere on the map, if blessing is held, 35 energy unchangable energy cost, takes 3 seconds to revive one player.

Bless's damage reduction maximum is now 95%

Bless now lasts for 20 seconds and cannot be extended, or modded for.

Bless now records damage taken from the previous minute of combat.

If the damage taken exceeds 2000 base, in total for all frames.-May need adjustment for 1500 damage total, or 30%/40%/50% of all frames health and sheilds combined.

Just now, Pyus said:

But will unbreaking gamebreaking warframes put the breaks the momentum of the game or will break the game and make farming more of a pain? 

That's is what worries, me, however, I'm patient, and I trust that DE will make the game bearable to play at higher levels soon for other frames.

[Melos-mevim]

personally I liked what was suggested at one tennolive/pannel turning bladestorm in to less of vomit cam central and more in to a controlled weapon ability/ I always liked the look of those blades on ash and I always wanted to use them not watch a cut scene of them being used

[Magnulast]

7 minutes ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

Or, simply make it work like an absorb bubble. Not 99% invulnerability, but starting at 100% and scaling downward per second. That way people in places like Draco can understand death, even. -_-

uuummm K thanks? I dunno what to say. If you have a idea......I suggest build off of a problem, and applying fixes and judging youself, and then letting others judge your idea.

That's how I do it. Thanks for the reply anyway.

[(PSN)KaiDragneel]

Awesome work! Love that you guys are trying to get rid of cheeseframe. Definitely a step in the right direction.

 

32 minutes ago, Nova-Gamer said:

Broken abilities are used to counter broken enemies.

This sums up the entirety of warframe in its current state.

What they need to do is fix enemies such as the following.

• Nullifiers
• Grineer Commanders
• Combas and Scrambus
• Bursas
• Manics
• Scorchers
• Corpus Techs
• Hyakka Masters
• Ancients to some extent

If DE are going to be nerfing/changing the frames that help us deal with enemies such as these then they need to do something about the scaling of these types of units.

Ehhh... As long as they just look at the scaling of the enemies. I doubt this will happen though. Enemy scaling revisions will need to coincide with damage scaling for all weapons and abilities. 

I like that Warframe has a diverse group of enemies, some of which are more troublesome than others

Also, Ash's bladestorm has long since been on DE's list of reworks, a few months at least. Is the coming rework the same thing or something different?

Edited May 27, 2016 by (PS4)KaiDragneel

[GreyEnneract]

No skill should have infinite range.

Other than that, Blessing is fine.

[Magnulast]

Third trinity bless suggestion.-Offensive counterback.

Blessing now can give allies a CC effect when blessed.

CC blast effect will trigger every 1 second for 5 seconds in a 10 meter radius, dealing as much damaged as healed via LOS, and can not be minigated even with ancient healers.

and yes, the CC blast effects goes around you, in a 10 meter radius.

Blessing is now capped at 97% damage reduction.

Blessing will now apply a bubble, and take enemy 

However, blessing will take in the most and the least damaged frame.'s sheilds and health 20% sheilds, 80% health.

EX: all sheilds gone(Both), 2% and 80% health remaning, casts bless-> .61% damage reduction total.

Just now, GreyEnneract said:

No skill should have infinite range.

Other than that, Blessing is fine.

I agree, blessing should have infinite range, but what it shouldn't have is the ability to let people cheese.

Well, I wish enemy reworks came already *Losing patience for enemy rework and damage 3.0*

[Fifield]

30 minutes ago, TheRandomHunter said:

Abilities are not the problem, enemy scaling is the problem.

Warframe has lots of problems.

But enemy scaling isn't a big one.  Re: EHP, worst case scenario, you bring 3 or 4 CPs.  Re: damage -- there are literally dozens of disables, guns that can shoot round corners, plenty of cover, free revives, 3 auto-revives....

It needs a tweak that I've written about elsewhere and will a new thread about but it doesn't break the game.  Unlike Prism, Molecular Prime, EV et al.

33 minutes ago, TheRandomHunter said:

Broken abilities are used to counter broken enemies.

There aren't any broken enemies either.

Maybe they can nerf Nullifiers (or just introduce them at the end of the mission) once there aren't any OP frames left to balance.  But we're a long long way from that.

[GreyEnneract]

1 minute ago, Magnulast said:

Third trinity bless suggestion.-Offensive counterback.

Blessing now can give allies a CC effect when blessed.

CC blast effect will trigger every 1 second for 5 seconds in a 10 meter radius, dealing as much damaged as healed via LOS, and can not be minigated even with ancient healers.

and yes, the CC blast effects goes around you, in a 10 meter radius.

Blessing is now capped at 97% damage reduction.

Blessing will now apply a bubble, and take enemy 

However, blessing will take in the most and the least damaged frame.'s sheilds and health 20% sheilds, 80% health.

EX: all sheilds gone(Both), 2% and 80% health remaning, casts bless-> .61% damage reduction total.

I agree, blessing should have infinite range, but what it shouldn't have is the ability to let people cheese.

Well, I wish enemy reworks came already *Losing patience for enemy rework and damage 3.0*

Seems like you've misread.

[taiiat]

5 minutes ago, CptKornflake said:

was there any real reason to nerf desecrate

(good thing that Ability has never been 'nerfed')

[Magnulast]

Just now, GreyEnneract said:

Seems like you've misread.

Are you saying Blessing isn't broken by obtaining 99% damage reduction? It's annoying to do so because you need a build. 

But it's also broken due to how people use it.

If you agree where trinity's bless is fine as is, I'm fine with it. But I disagree. I respect your opinion.(And NO it's not sarcasm.)

[RazrOutlaw]

1 minute ago, Fifield said:

Warframe has lots of problems.

But enemy scaling isn't a big one.  Re: EHP, worst case scenario, you bring 3 or 4 CPs.  Re: damage -- there are literally dozens of disables, guns that can shoot round corners, plenty of cover, free revives, 3 auto-revives....

It needs a tweak that I've written about elsewhere and will a new thread about but it doesn't break the game.  Unlike Prism, Molecular Prime, EV et al.

There aren't any broken enemies either.

Maybe they can nerf Nullifiers (or just introduce them at the end of the mission) once there aren't any OP frames left to balance.  But we're a long long way from that.

There aren't broken enemies,but, there is broken scalling on this enemies, once you reach lvl 500+, I'd been agaisnt lvl 3000 Infested (which are considered to be the least fearsome enemies in the game) and you get one shotted even with the 99% damage reduction from Trinity and every other damage reduction/enemy debuff in-game.

[Doom_Bunny]

"energy drain ramp up is capped"...at what?

We have a plethora of mods, a focus tree, and arcane energize that can easily compensate if the drain is even moderate. If it drains too much forcing players to drop certain mods for even more energy compensation mods; hysteria would become practically non-usable.

Aside from energy, hysteria is already slipping due the scaling mods body count and blood rush. With these two mods you can go beyond the damage hysteria can deal. That means regular melee weapons are now a step above hysteria in both range and potential damage. Hysteria (and Exalted Blade) need something to keep up with that scaling damage. Hysteria may have invincibility but that doesn't simply make it better then say a one-shot dagger or an axe that has it's own damage +165% crit quadrupled and continually rising.

Hysteria is already unviable in a lot of missions. I fear the likes of leech eximus and ancient disruptors may force hysteria out of even more missions.

The only thing I would ask of the damage mitigation is for it not to kill Valkyr instantly. Sure if the enemy can see Valkyr and is in-range deal the damage. However leave Valkyr with one health. Let the enemy deal the final blow and give the player chance to survive or die.

 

Completely unrelated: Will Vauban's bastille spam get capped (similar to Frost's snow globe) to prevent map lock-down?

Edited May 27, 2016 by Postal_pat

[GreyEnneract]

Just now, Magnulast said:

Are you saying Blessing isn't broken by obtaining 99% damage reduction? It's annoying to do so because you need a build. 

But it's also broken due to how people use it.

If you agree where trinity's bless is fine as is, I'm fine with it. But I disagree. I respect your opinion.(And NO it's not sarcasm.)

Blessing shouldn't have infinite range. No skill should.

Other than the range, Blessing is fine.

Skills that need to be looked at are Well and EV.

Such as Trinity not being able to give energy to herself with EV, and changing Well of Life possibly entirely.

[Niceberg]

The only thing Mirage could actually bring to a team was her insane CC. Now she cant even do the only thing she excelled at. Prism is now a worse Radial Blind. There is no use for Mirage anymore in actual gameplay, she is outshined by pretty much any other CC-based frame.

Same for Valkyr. The only thing she had was her Berseker invulnerability. Nerfing this means ruining the whole frame, as the rest of her kit is nearly useless without her 4. While we are on this, energy drain abilities need to go.

Excalibur's nerf was also uncalled for. Now we have to play with half the energy for less than a fourth of the blind. This fixes anything: Now that EB doesnt work, SD will rise back to the top. Excaliboy is broken by default, nerfing one of his abilities is not going to fix it. I want to ask for a full rework, but seeing how you handle nerfs, im afraid to even post this comment. EBing Draco was one of the only truly efficient ways to farm focus, now we are left with our 2000-focus-a-mission whoframes that can barely get the work dont and have to extract at 4 waves. 

And now you are also hinting at nerfing Trinity, and Ash? Why dont you try buffing the other frames, instead of nerfing to the ground the 10 frames that actually DO work? Why do you always have to go the easy way and cut whatever the trees that stand tall, instead of helping the others grow?

[osheroth]

Don't really understand the Bladestorm nerf, I thought that ability was under the radar for a rework already. Hopefully that's still on the way and this nerf isn't a "bandaid".

Edited May 27, 2016 by osheroth
Forgot a word.

[TheTundraTerror]

How about instead of nerfing everything into the ground, DE actually put some effort into making frames like Hydroid/Nekros into something other than loot drones? How about instead of destroying my builds I sunk 5 Forma into, you make the other frames be useable? How about DE spend some time balancing armour/enemy scaling?

[GreyEnneract]

1 minute ago, osheroth said:

Don't really understand the Bladestorm nerf, I thought that ability was under the radar for a rework already. Hopefully that's still on the way and this nerf isn't a "bandaid".

I see nothing about a Bladestorm "nerf".

[Lokime]

Well, we all knew this day was coming.

Even though I still dislike some of the changes (And I'll probably dislike Trinity's and Ash's changes too), I can see why they're necessary. From a rational point of view I believe this changes will do more good than harm(As a player I'll probably be mad for the first few days, but eventually I'll have to adapt). 

However, I would like to believe that this kind of changes begins with warframes(The "good" and the "bad" ones)... there's lots of tweaks weapons, archwing, focus systems, and enemies needs -for the sake of balance and fun :)

Keep up the good work DE! :D