Dev Workshop Part 2: ...& more Warframe Changes.

[Blood_Poppy]

still waiting for the update.. It already 28th May/Saturday/5.06 A.M here...

 

still no news On Update.. don't tell me you Extend the date.. 

[Raistlinamon]

1 hour ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

THAT should be difficult! That's "end-game" where a player tests their mettle.

Raids are about communication and coordination with a GROUP. It's not a race to the extraction zone in 1 minute. It's suppose to be challenging and you'll experience MANY wipes for the loot (why when you get that loot you'll even appreciate getting it! Christmas time!!!).

Mechanics in Warframe now is LFR mode with starting zone eaze at that "end-game" level, because the frames were tuned for solo play, NOT group play. Add a Trinity with 99% armor reduction, it's even trivial (seriously, how did that even get past QA? That's like when Blizzard allowed Holy Paladins to one-shot content with Holy Shock as a healer ... "Houston, we have a problem").

I'm like the next guy who loves a particular avatar and sticks with it, but come on, some of these frames have abilities that in hindsight CAUSED the problems we see in the game -- and the Dracos (because sure, min-maxers will find another hot spot to level ... but with deaths, and losing Affinity/rewards and more, too. Their K/Ds will reflect that they're veterans even!).

You obviously don't know the brevity especially of sourcing global recruit chat and see what an mr5 cannot do in a raid simply bc they have not put the work into their build because they haven't played long enough to even know what they are doing wrong.

[Versa]

To all saying that Oberon should get blessings effects, please, just look, trinity is a dedicated frame for giving support involving survivability and energy use alone. Oberon is created later as a jack of all trades and has access to multiple forms of CC including consistent knockdown and radiation. Why should Oberon be good at dealing with crowds in addition to getting and significant damage reduction. That would become the epitome of overpowered in one frame. Enemies are disabled and allies have little worry. On the flip side why should Trinitiy's heal effects suffer when that is the bulk of what she does next to energy regen. To those saying that self damage is entirely overpowered and brainless, have you actually tried self damaging and recasting in combat without dying? Quick thinking and primed flow only go so far, especially with QTs stagger. It becomes a very high risk high reward manuver. Also in general, after about lvl 70, there is no viable manner of using blessing as a reactionary heal due to enemy damage killing nearly instantly making self damage the only functional method to make use of blessing. In addition bless is NEVER invulnerable once nullifyers and scrambus show, there is simply too much enemy crowd control to even move before bless ends, or once enemies hit the multiple hundreds, you suddenly cannot maintain bless and your health and due to Trinity's low survivability out of abilities and the guaranteed to follow stagger from QT you WILL go down. Also the change to the DR equation only makes Trinity worse while playing with others. There is almost no case where all players will be at very low health and the missions isnt about to fail. Speaking of low risk high reward, loki has 2 complete cheeze abilities, invis and RD. It takes effort to DIE while using invis while using and RD makes all enemies a much less dangerous version of infested that can be manipulated further with even the weakest crowd control. Even zephyr has a delay between ability casts in her one survival ability. Breaking a bless trin before touching loki, let alone enemy scaling is absurd. In addition, chroma still has the capability to get survivability just 1% less than a trinity and gets a significant damage bonus and CC potential too. Wukong also maintains his immortality with almost no strings while both Trinity and valkyr are being nerfed simultaneously.

Edited May 27, 2016 by Kurayami_No_Yenshi

[(XBOX)ThizzLerH20]

Dear DE,

 

What you have done is just plain idiotic. I do not post on the forums usually but these NERFS are outrageous. Trinity does not need a Nerf, as well as Excal, Mirage, and all the other frames. I haven't even been playing this a year and logged over 600 hours. If these NERFS are going to be input I will simply not support your game with my hard earned money as you do not deserve it. Simple as that. I hope you take a pole because all this accomplishes is rewarding the people who Btch and Moan about kill stealing when it is a PVE game. Sorry, you have just lost another Tenno. I will be sure to let everyone I know to give the game up, do not download, and do not spend a single penny on this game.

 

Sincerely,

A fallin Tenno due to stupidity by DE

[Raistlinamon]

4 minutes ago, GreyEnneract said:

You lost all credibility here.

Thank you, don't come again.

You sir are a troll and the reason why truly elite players keep getting nerfed by not even thinking about what this will do to the game and what will come next.... bye felicia.

[GreyEnneract]

Just now, Raistlinamon said:

You sir are a troll and the reason why truly elite players keep getting nerfed by not even thinking about what this will do to the game and what will come next.... bye felicia.

If you honestly think the only people supporting these changes don't go past rotation c then you can leave as well.

Going to just ignore all future low count posts, as they seem to just come here to complain about their cheese being taken away then go back to play the game regardless.

[WingedCrusade]

2 hours ago, -Mr.Meeseeks- said:

Wrong. Trinity was my first frame ever built. In 3 years not once have I ever abused the whole "self-damage for massive DR" meta. Now because of those people who would abuse that, I have to deal with severely nerfed range.

50m is a LOT. Not to mention it helps with actually making you think about and plan out what you're doing. I use Trinity just as much as my Valkyr, Banshee, and Excal. Seriously, you guys can't take balance well. Things change, and this is for the better so people can't cheese things. That, and I'm a bit biased against rushers so it'll be kinda worthwhile when somebody who's rushing doesn't get the effect of the heal cast, too.

 

2 hours ago, WarmNoodles said:

oh yeah, I see new bless working miracles in sorties/ high tier towers

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's an irony if you didn't guess. Trinity, best teamwork frame, with this change will become solo only frame. With no benefits added, just straight nerf.

 

I only wish I could refund my plat, it was waste of money as I see.

Here's an idea... Stay with your squad. 50m is a lot of range and should still allow leeway so that they won't have to be up your backend to get the heal.

[Raistlinamon]

2 minutes ago, Kurayami_No_Yenshi said:

To all saying that Oberon should get blessings effects, please, just look, trinity is a dedicated frame for giving support involving survivability and energy use alone. Oberon is created later as a jack of all trades and has access to multiple forms of CC including consistent knockdown and radiation. Why should Oberon be good at dealing with crowds in addition to getting and significant damage reduction. That would become the epitome of overpowered in one frame. Enemies are disabled and allies have little worry. On the flip side why should Trinitiy's heal effects suffer when that is the bulk of what she does next to energy regen. To those saying that self damage is entirely overpowered and brainless, have you actually tried self damaging and recasting in combat without dying? Quick thinking and primed flow only go so far, especially with QTs stagger. It becomes a very high risk high reward manuver. Also in general, after about lvl 70, there is no viable manner of using blessing as a reactionary heal due to enemy damage killing nearly instantly making self damage the only functional method to make use of blessing. In addition bless is NEVER invulnerable once nullifyers and scrambus show, there is simply too much enemy crowd control to even move before bless ends, or once enemies hit the multiple hundreds, you suddenly cannot maintain bless and your health and due to Trinity's low survivability out of abilities and the guaranteed to follow stagger from QT you WILL go down. Also the change to the DR equation only makes Trinity worse while playing with others. There is almost no case where all players will be at very low health and the missions isnt about to fail. Speaking of low risk high reward, loki has 2 complete cheeze abilities, invis and RD. It takes effort to DIE while using invis while using and RD makes all enemies a much less dangerous version of infested that can be manipulated further with even the weakest crowd control. Even zephyr has a delay between ability casts in her one survival ability. Breaking a bless trin before touching loki, let alone enemy scaling is absurd.

Exactly once these frames are nerfed what will happen is the next frames in line will be the OP frames needing a nerf. I came to play endless missions not endless nerfs.

[-CM-Hekovashi]

Never did a raid and i kinda have a idea that i don't gonna to start doing them for sure now.

Sure lets nerf all great tools but do nothing to main reason of why players forced to use those great tools-broken enemy scaling.

DE at it flawless-they fix the simptom, not thee main reason of WHY something hapening, just as USUAL.

[WingedCrusade]

3 minutes ago, (XB1)ThizzLerH20 said:

Dear DE,

 

What you have done is just plain idiotic. I do not post on the forums usually but these NERFS are outrageous. Trinity does not need a Nerf, as well as Excal, Mirage, and all the other frames. I haven't even been playing this a year and logged over 600 hours. If these NERFS are going to be input I will simply not support your game with my hard earned money as you do not deserve it. Simple as that. I hope you take a pole because all this accomplishes is rewarding the people who Btch and Moan about kill stealing when it is a PVE game. Sorry, you have just lost another Tenno. I will be sure to let everyone I know to give the game up, do not download, and do not spend a single penny on this game.

 

Sincerely,

A fallin Tenno due to stupidity by DE

They aren't nerfs, they're more of a sidestep to bypass people's cheese tactics and actually get them to think, strategize, and support teamplay. In a co-op game. About teams. This "nerf" you talk about doesn't exist. The only thing it's nerfing is cheese. I for one support all these changes.

[YagoXiten]

21 minutes ago, ThumpumGood said:

This is a fallacious argument. The power of the frames being nerfed are being done so at the behest of people who have never played passed the first C rotation. They are ruining a great game. I dont play shooters. I have no shooters on my consoles or my PC. But I spent money on this one because of the endless challenge. If I get too good, I play longer and longer and longer. You ever play against a lv 200+ NPC? If you haven't then you dont understand that no frame is OP.

He was right about one point:

You are the minority.  And there's a good reason for that.

That's an enemy level twice that of what is currently end game content. And since enemies scale exponentially with their level, it's far, far, far more difficult. It's not that every other frame but your favorite ones to cheese with is unviable. It's that you and everyone else should not be playing at that level. I understand the desire for challenge and glory to get that far. But if you would let go of your absurdly broken mechanics for a little while, we might get less obnoxious false difficulty enemies. If we removed all the Nullifiers and so on, and were left with Butchers and Corrupted Lancers the game would be even more trivial. If we created actually challenging enemies they would still be ignorable because of the the hilariously overpowered CC we can pump out.

 

Because of this, the power level of the Tenno has to be reasonable before we can create interesting enemies. And that means nerfs.

 

 

Edited May 27, 2016 by YagoXiten

[Raistlinamon]

1 minute ago, GreyEnneract said:

If you honestly think the only people supporting these changes don't go past rotation c then you can leave as well.

Going to just ignore all future low count posts, as they seem to just come here to complain about their cheese being taken away then go back to play the game regardless.

I'm not saying things may not need a balance. However this is not what yo u think. I am a low count poster because I play the darn game and don't waste my time on the forums. If anything that makes my point even more valid. You are still just a troll and probably a DE sockpuppet.

[SwiftPotato12]

I can understand a tweak on Trinity... But 50m range? Thats outrageous.

[WingedCrusade]

1 minute ago, -CM-Hekovashi said:

Never did a raid and i kinda have a idea that i don't gonna to start doing them for sure now.

Sure lets nerf all great tools but do nothing to main reason of why players forced to use those great tools-broken enemy scaling.

DE at it flawless-they fix the simptom, not thee main reason of WHY something hapening, just as USUAL.

Raids aren't actually all that difficult. It's planning and communication that matter...

 

A party of high level vets will get smeared if they don't communicate and co-operate, or know what they're doing.

[RazrOutlaw]

Devs, can we make a poll about the Trinity change? I think most of the players feel like it wasn't needed/it was overdone.

[GreyEnneract]

1 minute ago, SwiftPotato12 said:

I can understand a tweak on Trinity... But 50m range? Thats outrageous.

50m base range is the largest amount of range for any ability in the game.

[Stoner]

19 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

and Exalted Blade’s built-in Radial Blind on spin will now cost ½ the Energy of a regular Radial Blind

That seems completely unfair considering it's in his Ult... Are you even serious?

[Versa]

Just now, GreyEnneract said:

50m base range is the largest amount of range for any ability in the game.

Except basically all bless trinity's have no range so its only good for EV trin so spam heal which is already much overused for cheezing.

[-dicht.Amducias-]

I really played warframe for 2 years and 8 months now. Unlike many other players i didnt take a single break from it because there always was something to do for me. Since the raids came out they made me stay with warframe and lately they are the main reason why i still play. My group and I compete in raids and try to be as fast ad possible but now with this update it effectively ruins the Raids as a gamemode and additionally any competition in it. You now have even less flexibility in choosing your squad setup, raids are already very fail-sensitive with their mechanics but now they are a straight risk.. again how it usually comes for warframe one change at a time but not the affected parts of the game changed at the same time. If you nerf all the frames please also address the broken enemy scaling, the raid-mechanics (having to stand on a 2m^2 spot and no way to properly cc?!?!) and endless mission types.. and dont address these issues at some point later, please AT THE SAME TIME! 

Sorry, had to leave these words here

[Raistlinamon]

3 minutes ago, SwiftPotato12 said:

I can understand a tweak on Trinity... But 50m range? Thats outrageous.

50 m isn't that bad even with all range mods.. it stretch overextended and cunning drift the max I have seen is 62.5m.. so 50m isn't a nerf imho.

[DuskLegendary]

1 hour ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

THAT should be difficult! That's "end-game" where a player tests their mettle.

Raids are about communication and coordination with a GROUP. It's not a race to the extraction zone in 1 minute. It's suppose to be challenging and you'll experience MANY wipes for the loot (why when you get that loot you'll even appreciate getting it! Christmas time!!!).

Mechanics in Warframe now is LFR mode with starting zone eaze at that "end-game" level, because the frames were tuned for solo play, NOT group play. Add a Trinity with 99% armor reduction, it's even trivial (seriously, how did that even get past QA? That's like when Blizzard allowed Holy Paladins to one-shot content with Holy Shock as a healer ... "Houston, we have a problem").

I'm like the next guy who loves a particular avatar and sticks with it, but come on, some of these frames have abilities that in hindsight CAUSED the problems we see in the game -- and the Dracos (because sure, min-maxers will find another hot spot to level ... but with deaths, and losing Affinity/rewards and more, too. Their K/Ds will reflect that they're veterans even!).

Sure, sure, I understand where you're coming from. I know that some of these overpowered frames did indeed cause the problems before us, particulary some of the more annoying enemy types in the game being implemented. But what bugs me is that the root of the problem isn't being fixed, we just keep on getting handed frame nerf after frame nerf after frame nerf. Do you think this is the answer? Do you think this is okay? I for one do not. When will enemies be fixed instead of handing out nerfs to us like candy? 

Yes I do agree, raids are just about the highest level content in the game we have not counting endless missions types, they don't count. Raids are considered THE end game in this MMO and many many more. I don't think it should be easy by any means, but why take away some of the only viable tools we have to use to complete them? I completed the Star Chart, made a build for nearly every frame, got decked out in gear all so I could play end game content, only to be told that about the quarter of the stuff I'm currently using is going to be nerfed, and not for the better?

We all know this is just going to cause frustration, it already has and the changes haven't even been implemented yet. The root of the problem is not being taken into consideration. We the player base find the most efficient ways to complete the task before us to mitiagate some of the unfairness in the game like the dang enemy scaling, this is only putting a band aid on the problem at best.

Edited May 27, 2016 by DuskLegendary

[(XBOX)ThizzLerH20]

1 minute ago, WingedCrusade said:

They aren't nerfs, they're more of a sidestep to bypass people's cheese tactics and actually get them to think, strategize, and support teamplay. In a co-op game. About teams. This "nerf" you talk about doesn't exist. The only thing it's nerfing is cheese. I for one support all these changes.

Anything to reduce the effectiveness of a certain power would be considered a NERF. 

 

To get rid of the cheese tactics they should never have implemented them in the game in the first place. Look at Inaros for instance. He is a fairly recent release and yet if built correctly can solo for hours, yet they still implemented his abilities in the game knowing that they would be getting reworked eventually to downgrade his effectiveness in the long run. DE hindsight has never been very good but this is the an all-time low. As far as team play goes, don't you think having a Disarm Loki, EV Trin, Bladestorm Ash, and Blind Mirage.  All of these frames synergize together but are solid as Solo frames as well.

 

[Spot.]

These changes actually seem pretty well balanced. Good. Been waiting for something like this for awhile now.

Edited May 27, 2016 by Spot.

[TheTundraTerror]

9 minutes ago, WingedCrusade said:

They aren't nerfs, they're more of a sidestep to bypass people's cheese tactics and actually get them to think, strategize, and support teamplay

Do you know why people cheese? It's because cheese is the only thing that scales into late-game.

[ThumpumGood]

Well, looks like the end of people raiding.