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Dev Workshop Part 2: ...& more Warframe Changes.


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8 minutes ago, theclinton said:

Posting memes/videos with no explanation is not constructive either!

Thank you!

On another topic... Will Trinity in fact receive a nerf to the effective Range of her Blessing? Because I've come to know of it not having a definite range at all.

Edited by AEP8FlyBoy
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Excuse me, DE staff, if I may;

 

Do you feel Oberon is in a healthy spot? Are you pulling him away from the 'Paladin' fantasy, and more toward the 'Druid' direction, as the recent passive he will receive seems to indicate? Will you be considering adding a second 'Knight' or 'Paladin' Warframe to fulfil his deficit in this regard, or is Inaros intended to fill that void?

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Extra emphasis on banshee, i feel like she isn't the intended or hyped stealth warframe she was made into believing to be.
While i do like her a lot, specially as a crown control warframe, i think some functionaries regarding her abilities and even some abilities as a whole should be changed.

And maybe do something over the new passive not overlapping silence.

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11 minutes ago, Noabettiet said:

While the balance changes are mostly welcome, i feel like the time spent on them should have been in pushing existing underdog warframe abilities up, rather than putting others down.

If i am to assume you make a game to be fun, why not make older or less used warframes more fun to play with?

Whilst I agree that frames like Oberon, Zephyr, Ember and Nyx need some love, they don't break the game.  That's why Mirage et al need to be fixed first.

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Let me get this straight. The Spin Blind off Exalted Blade has a 5 m radius, while Radial Blind has a 25 m radius. I now have to pay half as much energy, for a fifth of the blind? Oh wait, I'm sorry, these are circles. I have to pay half as much energy for a twenty-fifth the blind given by my 2nd ability?

You want people to play Excal as a swordsman? Make him step forward when he attacks to drag him out of the CC safety bubble, then make him immune to knockdown while attacking so he can actually try and cut his way towards the bombard, the napalm, the whatever. It's just brutally frustrating to try and be a swordsman in this game, only to get blindsided by some knockdown effect and then get pulped by the enemies you surrounded yourself with.

Oh, and you should probably give Radial Javelin some kind of relevant debuff because it can't kill anything anyways.

Excal still is just a worse Mirage, why would you do this DE.

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43 minutes ago, Fifield said:

Good.  The easiest change is to remove the damage reduction from Blessing and give it to Oberon, after all he's the paladin character.

I second this.

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the exalted radial blind is weird control wise

spinning attacks shouldnt force energy usage, these are a melee maneuver and consuming energy will just limit the player´s melee expression

since exalted blind will now cost energy, why dont you undo the spinnig attacks  = radial blind mechanic and just put the current exalted blind in the #2 when #4 is active?

i think that would be good and make a lot of sense as the exalted user will have "free" access to his spinning attack and when he wants to blind he will have the cheaper version of blind that is perfect for a solo player and is still useful for team play, and if an excal player wants the bigger and more expensive version of blind he will be good to use it out of exalted blade

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Mirage:

The changes to Prysm are a necessary nerf, but while you guys were at it you could have buffed the casting time as well since it is the single ability in the game with the longest casting animation while not really being the most powerful one (after the changes).

Valkyr:

Another necessary nerf, but the ideal changes would be to simply return it to being a duration based ability which was far more balanced and much better thematically fit for her. Since it is an anger ability it doesn't really make much sense for her to control precisely when she comes in or out of it.

Excalibur:

While Exalted Blade is indeed a bit overpowered when it comes to DPS, I don't think putting it on the same list as Mirage's Prysm or Valkyr's Hysteria is warranted since it didn't go as far as to triviallize gameplay and only really needed a very slight nerf to be properlly balanced. The addition of energy comsumption in particular I think is quite uncalled for and takes away quite a bit of the fun of playing as Excalibur.

Trinity:

The solution for balancing Blessing is to remove self-dmg from the game entirelly (if Tonkor and Synoid Simulor can be allowed to exist without it, then there is not good reason why it should exist for any weapon at all), simple as that.

Ash:

I hope you guys keep in mind that currently Ash is a one trick pony and Bladestorm is really the only thing he has going for him. If you simply nerf Bladestorm and don't rework his other abilities to be really more useful then he will become quite lame.

Edited by lvl999ArchNecromancerIRL
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Since the goal of these tweaks is to remove "1-button-win" frames, I cannot help but wonder why you are changing Exalted Blade and not Radial Javelin. To me, this is one of the most heinous offenders of trivializing entire maps/missions. All you have to do is play with a Trinity and you can "lock down" the entire map, i.e. spawn kill every enemy. The problem is exacerbated even further by augments like Freezing Force and Venom Dose. The only solution I can think of at the moment would be to add damage falloff over a certain range to this ability as well. I hate to complain without offering a real alternative, but that's all I can muster. 

The other changes in this post are very good and very much needed. Thank you for listening to the playerbase and taking our feedback into consideration with these changes. 

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Any chance we can get Limbo changed so that we can pick up items in the Rift? He's gotten a lot of nice subtle changes to make him more useful and all.. but he's just never going to be a fun frame if you have to disable your buffs and go fully vulnerable just to go back and pick up the items enemies dropped (and that's not even going into the terrible trolling potential of casting cataclysm to prevent your team from picking up a drop).

Even if you reworked Rift Surge to give 10x the damage buff it does now, it just still won't be very fun to play him, and there will always be that naggin risk of "do i really want to play with a limbo on the team?" even if they're not trying to troll, they can end up doing it by accident just due to cataclysm being cataclysm.

IMO it makes no sense to have an anti-looting mechanic in a game where your primary method of progression is looting.

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Just going to say this:

Saying you are leaving the game will not bring change.

The only way you'll see any change is with constructive feedback. DE is trying to get other frames at a viable level by toning down some of the most broken and overused mechanics. It's a breath of fresh air, which is rare for mmo's.

Now for my question again. Are there any plans for Chroma? There are a few threads about him and I think some of us want to know the devs stance on him.

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Beautiful!

We need all of these changes, and more threads like this explaining the concepts that the Dev team is working with.  So much of this information goes unsaid for so long that people get the impression that nothing is being done sometimes.  Well done, DE!

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Well, good to know I waited for this topic just to see it's a bunch of nerfs, with one buff to a skill.  My main issue with this is that it's just taking away, outside of Mirage(And even then, a small damage buff isn't going to make SoH useful, comeon DE, you guys should know this by now).  It would be nice to hear something positive as well(Such as "We also took a look at Slash Dash and came up with this way to improve it/make it more interesting/fun to use).  Especially since this topic was announced earlier today, so I figured the delay would've given us something more interesting than a bunch of nerfs(Especially the dreaded "LoS" nerf).

That's the thing, I shouldn't have to dread hearing the words "we're taking a look at (insert frame here)" or "this ability is under review", but I do, because when those words are thrown out, it generally doesn't lead to much good(there's a reason why the joke about "It's Wednesday, better nerf Trinity" was prevalent for a short while).

Edited by UFOLoche
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5 minutes ago, Letter13 said:

Hey folks, just a friendly reminder, the developers are looking for feedback regarding Warframe ability

Sure I can do that.

Passives: These are so bad that I'm honestly baffled. Why would Banshee get silencers on all weapons when she has an ability to deafen enemies? What part of Loki's kit synergies with wall cling? And I'm having a hard time deciding which passive is more useless: Oberon's or Mag's. I know that they don't and shouldn't be gamechangers but they should at least be... good.

Mirage (Prism): Prism is an amazing ability with almost unprecedented CC. The only problem is that this change wouldn't just diminish it's utility, it could outright ruin it. I already notice that with Radial Blind that it won't hit some enemies right in front of me. Imagining having a radial blind that has a 4x cast time with similar results on a frame with a fraction of the armor is an accident waiting to happen.

Valkyr (Hysteria): I'm going to say it, energy drain sucks. It over-complicates builds and removes any team synergy when it comes to energy restore and increases dependence on RNG drop orbs for sustained use. Making energy drain worse just means that I'll have to wait for my energy to run out, pop an energy restore, wait X seconds, and cast it again. It's just unnecessary tedium. The other change is also so overly convoluted even in the explanation and it just sounds like something someone shouted out in a meeting to wake everyone up.

Excal (EB): This is just a case of "we made something really good and regret it." This nerf is a bandaid on a year old necrotic gangrenous wound. If Excal was really this "problematic" they should have done something on day 2. Excal really is the most reliable source of focus and they know it. Instead of making it easier for other frames to get focus or tweak the system to allow support frames to gain focus they just take the best and break his kneecaps.

I honestly can't give any alternatives other than "Don't do any of the thing you just listed."

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53 minutes ago, PsychedelicSnake said:

I'd say it's less the range of her claws and more how enemies can move away from her faster than she can move at them while attacking. Overall that's a problem with all of melee, really.

That's an issue as well but the longer ranged melee weapons still have a considerably more consistent ability to hit more targets per swing.

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1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

 

Also under review:

Trinity's Blessing & Ash's Bladestorm are both under review as well. If we determine a course of action for either of these powers, we will let you know here. o increase our tactics and engagement with the gear we have collected.

Wasnt bladestorm being reworked? :S, they talked more than once about "future clones" or something like that

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So how about that oberon rework? something about improving melee so it's not "how quickly do you want to ruin your e-key"? Maybe fix the absurd drop rates while you're at it?

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52 minutes ago, Valsako said:

Nerf Trin's blessing and I'll quit the game after playing well over 1,000 hours since 2013. That simple.

But Trinity can spam Blessing. Other games have 2/3/5 minute CDs on ultimates like that. Same with the EV build (but messing with EV will wreck the game even worse than armor scaling problems, as players are energy starved).

99% damage reduction for 29 seconds??? My bubble in WoW lasts under 8 seconds, and can be stolen, and in raids it's not fail safe anymore. 29 seconds of taking 1% damage, that would make sorties nonsensical, on a spammable ability, too.

That just couldn't last.

To scale down the armor, the abilities have to be practical or the game is no longer a game (i.e., rewards = risks).

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8 minutes ago, JPSimms said:

Sure I can do that.

Passives: These are so bad that I'm honestly baffled. Why would Banshee get silencers on all weapons when she has an ability to deafen enemies? What part of Loki's kit synergies with wall cling?

His invisibility?
Invisible Wall-Hugger dealing tons of damage while remaining safe from enemy-fire and from suicidal teammates.

8 minutes ago, JPSimms said:

Mirage (Prism): Prism is an amazing ability with almost unprecedented CC. The only problem is that this change wouldn't just diminish it's utility, it could outright ruin it. I already notice that with Radial Blind that it won't hit some enemies right in front of me. Imagining having a radial blind that has a 4x cast time with similar results on a frame with a fraction of the armor is an accident waiting to happen.

Yeah, I somewhat agree that casting speed would need to be decreased slightly. To keep it on par with Excalibur. Good thought!

8 minutes ago, JPSimms said:

Valkyr (Hysteria): I'm going to say it, energy drain sucks. It over-complicates builds and removes any team synergy when it comes to energy restore and increases dependence on RNG drop orbs for sustained use. Making energy drain worse just means that I'll have to wait for my energy to run out, pop an energy restore, wait X seconds, and cast it again. It's just unnecessary tedium. The other change is also so overly convoluted even in the explanation and it just sounds like something someone shouted out in a meeting to wake everyone up.

Yeah, I don't quite understand just what they mean by those changes either. Perhaps we will have to wait and see for that one.

8 minutes ago, JPSimms said:

Excal (EB): This is just a case of "we made something really good and regret it." This nerf is a bandaid on a year old necrotic gangrenous wound. If Excal was really this "problematic" they should have done something on day 2. Excal really is the most reliable source of focus and they know it. Instead of making it easier for other frames to get focus or tweak the system to allow support frames to gain focus they just take the best and break his kneecaps.

They don't regret anything about Excalibur. He's a swordsman at heart, and to many players were using him as a turret instead of as a samurai. The Focus system as it is, is honestly a joke. There is only one definitive way to earn Focus, and that is by stealth running Exterminate missions with a High-range melee weapon. Coupled with the fact that two schools (Zenurik and Naramon) completely overshadow the other three in terms of general usefulness.

Excalibur will still be a great frame in the aftermath of these balances, and nothing is set in stone yet. Melee is his thing, they don't want players to have absolutely nothing to worry about as they sit on top of a box and spam down a hallway with no detriments.

In my opinion, I like what they are doing with him. Not so much the Punching-Through enemies part of it making EB lose damage, but the Falloff with range is nice.

Edited by AEP8FlyBoy
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1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

 

Valkyr:

Oh hey I almost forgot. Paralysis seems sort of..inconsistent or buggy. Sometimes it stuns like its supposed to, sometimes enemies just sort of ignore it. It seems to have something to do with the enemies being in certain animations that don't get interrupted by it...not sure.

Either way it ends up making paralysis hard to use effectively because you never know if it will actually do its job. I request a review on that.

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.....that prism nerf is gonna hurt lol...T_T i'm fine with this but plsssssssssss don't touch blessing. raids and some sorties are gonna be tougher now so trinity is most likely gonna be needed for majority of squads and if blessing's timer or range gets nerfed i'm afraid she'll become useless. also, i think bladestorm should go untouched. yes it's a powerful damaging ability but that's the point of it. every frame has its niche and ash is our assassin....we already lost op miasma spam saryn xDDDD 

i'm just thinking of the worse possible outcome tho.

Question: does mag's magnetize bubble deal damage to all enemy's in a bubble or just the enemy it was casted on like it currently is? if it damages all enemies you might want to rework the damage buff it gives because with a sniper you can deal upwards of 2mil with a sniper because of the auto headshots and damage buff....i'm already planning on a build around it and i'd hate for it to get nerfed later on..

can't wait until tomorrow (y)

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8 minutes ago, lvl999ArchNecromancerIRL said:

The changes to Prysm are a necessary nerf, but while you guys were at it you could have buffed the casting time as well since it is the single ability in the game with the longest casting animation while not really being the most powerful one (after the changes).

Hopefully, the other game breaking mass CC abilities will be nerfed too, and thus Prism will still be the more powerful one.

10 minutes ago, lvl999ArchNecromancerIRL said:

Additionally I did like to ask why is Trinity not included on this nerf list, since she is far more overpowered than any of these other three? Both Energy Vampire and Blessing (with the self damage exploit) damage the balance of the game more heavily than any other ability in the game currently.

Agree in general.  However, I think Prism is more gamebreaking.  Blessing isn't used much because the mass CC abilities stop us taking much damage anyway.

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13 minutes ago, JPSimms said:

.

Mirage (Prism): Prism is an amazing ability with almost unprecedented CC. The only problem is that this change wouldn't just diminish it's utility, it could outright ruin it. I already notice that with Radial Blind that it won't hit some enemies right in front of me. Imagining having a radial blind that has a 4x cast time with similar results on a frame with a fraction of the armor is an accident waiting to happen.

."

75-125 meter range isn't enough for you?

Edited by OzoneSlayer
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