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Update 18.13.0: TennoGen, Passives, & Reworks 

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15 minutes ago, AyaN7 said:

I know players who care so that's good enough for me to know that you are wrong. Some people do enjoy playing until enemies reach 300, so? Some don't or don't have time. It is not a sin to play or not play that far. Everyone should enjoy the game how they like and can.

Auto win buttons are not skills but you are welcome to believe so, nothing I can do about it. And some people can love auto win buttons too. I sure loved it when I ran Mag Prime first time in Corpus Sorties. It was really fun to clear army without effort, just pressing number 2. That fun was however short. After few Sorties I started running other warframes in Corpus Sorties to add myself a challenge. Yes outside of training, enemy will have great chance to 1shot me. At least now they can since I cannot remove them from the game like I am some sort of a server admin, which was the power 2 on Mag vs Corpus. I can play Mag Prime again without being bored, without auto win. I have to be more tactical and mobile to pull off what was shown in the video but in the real mission. And if I success it will pay off and I will feel the accomplishment. Something that earlier version of Mag could not offer me.

You should not be trollish or tell players on public forums to lack logic. The only concern I have is for the players who had Mag longer than me and invested time and probably money in Mag, and are now not happy with the changes. Those players should have right on the refund as they no longer have the content they paid for. Mag is now a different warframe with same name and looks.

Just because you know a few players who care it doesn't account for all 16mil players who play this game. That right there is enough for me to know that you are wrong and come off as very self entitled as if you matter more than anyone else in the grand scheme of things. I never stated that auto win buttons were considered skill, if so, please quote my exact words because I simply said that the concept of skill is subjective. Just because you think that an auto win button isn't skill means nothing to the people who put time, money and resources into that build to make a certain skill that powerful. I don't remember starting off in warframe and being able to go straight to 1 shotting things, do you? If so, than we must be playing two different games because I remember having to farm countless hours for mods that I needed and resources that I needed for that to happen. That's basically punishing players for investing their time into a character. No one told you to play mag as you did, no one forced you to. You didn't have to stop using mag to challenge yourself, when all you had to do was stop using the skill. 

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43 minutes ago, Genesinz said:

Just because you know a few players who care it doesn't account for all 16mil players who play this game. That right there is enough for me to know that you are wrong and come off as very self entitled as if you matter more than anyone else in the grand scheme of things. I never stated that auto win buttons were considered skill, if so, please quote my exact words because I simply said that the concept of skill is subjective. Just because you think that an auto win button isn't skill means nothing to the people who put time, money and resources into that build to make a certain skill that powerful. I don't remember starting off in warframe and being able to go straight to 1 shotting things, do you? If so, than we must be playing two different games because I remember having to farm countless hours for mods that I needed and resources that I needed for that to happen. That's basically punishing players for investing their time into a character. No one told you to play mag as you did, no one forced you to. You didn't have to stop using mag to challenge yourself, when all you had to do was stop using the skill. 

I don't know how many players play this game you are more familiar with it than and I will trust you on the statistic but that hardly matters. I see people share their game experience on the community with that many people, if they agreed with you that "no one cares", they would not be sharing and feedbacking. I am just one of the 16mil who shared personal experience that seems to be so hard for you for whatever reason, and if you are one of those that believe that no one cares why did you post at the first place I wonder? Because they should care for what you say and not what I say? Who thinks to be above others now? I never accounted for all 16mil people as you assume, I only said that I know some people which defeats your "No one" claim. So there you are again wrong. Having friends to play with this game does not make me matter more than other people or puts me above anyone as you seems to have the impression of how I see myself. It makes me a player in an online multiplayer game, and my friends are not "No one" to me, nor are those that read these forums and use it to shape the game. You should be happy that community for that exists at the first place, to hear us players out. I also apologize for misunderstanding you to think that autowin buttons are skills.

Edited by AyaN7

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This is just a test, I made 2 posts a few hours ago and cant see them now. Hmmm... I wonder why....

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1 hour ago, Budknap said:

Thanks DE for completely screwing all the players who have dumped hundreds of hours into their fave frames.  Might as well to take trin out if the game and hold your middle finger at the HUNDREDS of HOUR it took people to finally make a decent bless trin. It's not like bless was a 1 button end all be all, it takes @(*()$ patience and skill to use. Well it did as you want to make it useless.  Instead of just coming out and saying that you have some death wish for Trinity you are just going to make her useless and boing to play until no one will use her any more. If you enjoy playing her you already have to give up all the bonus exp that other players get for "killing" stuff. For Shame DE.    Worst move I have ever seen in your updates.    THANKS A BUNCH.   Guess there are no refunds for the people you just screwed out of all the enjoyment they found in this game.   Why not just become Diablo and have diffuclty selection so all the high end player can filter out having to play with all the NOOBS,  that would be cool too.   If you are trying to push all of your loyal players out of the game you are doing a fine job. 

I don't want to be that guy, but you are over reacting. I just ran a sortie interception with Trinity in my squad, she kept our energy up just fine. At least try to work with the changes for a while, then cast judgement. 

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4 minutes ago, Ameijin-Grey said:

I don't want to be that guy, but you are over reacting. I just ran a sortie interception with Trinity in my squad, she kept our energy up just fine. At least try to work with the changes for a while, then cast judgement. 

well that was most probably an energy vamp trinity,

the guy's complaining about the blessing build nerf due to the %damage reduction rework.

Although the percentage damage reduction may be sorted out, it's the 50 m blessing heal radius that concerns me.

 

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Just now, n00b_m0m0 said:

well that was most probably an energy vamp trinity,

the guy's complaining about the blessing build nerf due to the %damage reduction rework.

Although the percentage damage reduction may be sorted out, it's the 50 m blessing heal radius that concerns me.

 

I see. Thanks for informing me. 

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Buff a frame > increase in sales > sales slow down > nerf frame.

The way of the free to play video game.  Best to simply keep builds to oneself.

 

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The Oberon passive is really a joke, glad I sold him after mastery, never yet had a reason to regret it.  It was a joke when announced, I'm sure that feedback was given, and it seems, ignored.

A lot of these changes do seem good on paper, though Mirage just became useless for the main thing I got her for, which was literally T4 Int farming.  

Personally I preferred the balanced, Exalted Blade builds for Excal more than RoJ, but I was already forma-ing him to make him better at RoJ, which is now I guess supposed to be his only viable build?  I lucked out there, but the frame just lost a lot of versatility.

Glad to see Valk become near-useless, I didn't like her much before, now I have no excuse to use her at all.  

 

Overall, seems a good time to maybe take a bit of a break from Warframe til the fallout from these changes settles, they undo what they're inevitably going to undo, rework the things they should have fixed before releasing, etc.  Seeing as I've spent money on the game several times in the past 2 months, at least I can rest easy knowing I'll have no urges to do that again for a while.  (Still a great game, overall, but not the greatest patch I've seen, and definitely a momentum/interest killer for me.)

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24 minutes ago, Sonos said:

Buff a frame > increase in sales > sales slow down > nerf frame.

The way of the free to play video game.  Best to simply keep builds to oneself.

 

More like "We want 90% of player base to buy our prime access packs, so we nerf all frames who can farm them efficiently, won't change scalings, and will put all new stuff at 2% dropchance t4 survival, interception and whatever else C.

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Well, having tested Volt and Mag a lot.... Mag is spot on. Perfect rework.

Volt, hm rework is good, but frame could use some love.

Now maybe guys take a look at least used frames. Oberon, Hydroid...

Hydroid for example looks super tanky, he would benefit a lot having some more armor. By some I mean like 250.

Oberon same deal, nkce and all, but just not survivable enough for endgame.

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3 hours ago, n00b_m0m0 said:

well that was most probably an energy vamp trinity,

the guy's complaining about the blessing build nerf due to the %damage reduction rework.

Although the percentage damage reduction may be sorted out, it's the 50 m blessing heal radius that concerns me.

 

Well, I used bless bulid 2-3 times and that was just boring for me, and with EV shield Tryni as main frame all I can say is... I don't know how to Trynity any longer... I'm not going to run just behind all players in squad to heal someone... I'm there to stand in few points for quick assist and heal if someone need it... 3 grakatas on my back, prisma skana and 3 points on map, that's my world, 50m range, not affected by power range just kills for me my playstyle, because you can't hold most of new players in 50m range (yes, I'm doing low-lvl mission to help them a bit) :/ 

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That's it. The trinity nerf made my friend quit. I'm so fed up with this game that I'm quitting too. Too many bad choices were made and now the game is no longer worth playing. I'd gladly get rid of all the passive abilities to get the warframes that were nerfed back to the way they were.

If by some miracle this is actually fixed, I may consider returning.

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Quote

Blessing: Blessing now heals Allies within the shared Tenno Affinity aura range. This Tenno Affinity aura range is a new UI feature available to all players beside the Shield Stat. This range is 50 meters from Trinity. 

 

Doesn't this strike anyone in the development team as... a little... excessive? I mean... I guess now I can say "Haha, you guys who mod for max sprint speed and bullet jump and bolt off into the action, I can no longer help you." and all they can do is cry and probably come on here to complain that the trinity is worthless, because it's not my fault that turbocharged Lokis and Ashes and what have you are now permanently out of my 50m range.

So... Uh. Link (and vamp) builds still ftw, I guess!

Edited by Starhowl
forgot the other trin build

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Hey look, trinity is no longer a braindead frame that requires zero effort for maximum gain. She made Oberon and Night Equinox practically useless but now these frames actually have a chance at competing.

Excalibur is still great and I'll still be running my main blind Excalibur build since standing still and spamming EB was never fun for me.

I love Valkyr but her nerfs were necessary since she her claws already doing superb damage combined with invulnerability was kind of overkill for the small amount of energy needed.

I'm not kissing DE's &#! here, I'm just a long time player who thinks the game was too easy (still is for the most part) and am glad to see more cheesey, spammey playstyles removed from the game. I think a lot of DE's design choices are really stupid but I think these nerfs were really necessary. I don't care how stupid you think scaling is, consistent 99% blessings from a self damaging Trin was even more stupid and broken. infinite energy on top of a global max heal was stupid too.

The one thing that still needs a real proper nerf is covert lethality. Being able to easily solo T4 survival for hours by just backstabbing everyone while being perma invis is kind of unfair for anyone else who actually groups up and tries to survive normally for as long as they can. There is no skill in that.

Edited by CluckingLove

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So I have been excited for a while about the upcoming updates but:

 

1st: for what it is worth DE, you actually just crazy nerfed most of my favourite frames, tough day for some of us who don't appreciate your changes for 4 frames at once. Even positive changes can ruin frames for a lot of people. Maybe spreads them all out a bit lol.

 

2nd: The affinity range has always been an issue as groups always have people spread out. Also, Sometimes working as a team means moving between different tasks and locations, different roles, you are just forcing us to remain close together. The HUD marker is 3 years behind schedule but has always been a pain. Making it a huge limitation for frames like trinity further reduce the usefulness of those support frames. I understand why you are changing these things, I might even agree with some, but this is very disappointing. 

 

Been here for 2 years now I think, maybe longer, and this is simply disappointing. Most big changes I loved, movement 2.0, even the star chart lol, but this seems less interesting and essentially, pointless. I would love bug fixes, the new,new star chart, kavats and everything else you have been pushing, why spend your times adjusting (nerfing) things that were not necessary? I hope this plays out well for the game in the end.

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I agree that bless needed a nerf to an extent, and some form range cap is a good idea. It doesn't make sense that everyone no matter where they are on the map benefits from the full heal. That being said, bless trins were really only used in raids, sortie assassinations (but many debuffs made a cheese bless trin with self harm impractical), and a few other missions. The current 50 m range is too low for many maps and mission types. Thus, I think bless should be scaleable with range mods and have a base range of 50 m or 25 m, but go back to the old formula. Alternatively, bless should have a hard cap at 75% damage reduction (or some other number) and is multiplicative with trinity only if link is already active. This would make modding for blessing more challenging and less op in practice as now all power attributes need to be taken into account. Another option would be to rework well of life so it is actually useable (maybe make it like ev). The current change essentially makes trinity an energy wench, or, solo play only with link. Pigeon holeing is something that I think the devs would want to avoid based on recent updates and reworks.

 

EDIT: Another idea I just thought of is make it spread like both renewal and molecular prime. Infinite range, speed of spread scales with duration. Everyone within 50 m (or some other number) gets full heal and damage resistance based off old formula, but the amount restored and resisted after that decreases with increasing range from trinity.

Edited by hryelle

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27 minutes ago, mostlyerror said:

why spend your times adjusting (nerfing) things that were not necessary?

I think it was a very good call to Nerf some of these frames, Trinity's Blessing was nice to have to cover the map, but now she and other people must stay closer together and actually play as a team. It gets rid of the players that charge off into the distance, throwing caution into the wind, and expecting the Trin to do the healing to keep them alive. 

Sometimes the Nerfing is extremely irritating and can be a disappointment but what happened was they made it so Frames couldn't dominate the entire map (like mirages blind). Mirage's Blind was awesome but it broke the game, and I thought it made the game boring. 

And Remember they have other updates coming out, they push off other ideas because "fans" wanted reworks Heavily so they delivered. Also there is also other Major updates coming out at some point this summer (I hope) that balance some of these things out.

So Stay Patient and remember they don't work for us and we don't work for them. Cope with what they have done and make the best of it. They are still a smaller team, from what I understand, so give them time to grow and learn.

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Question about Mesa's peacemaker. during it's effect, is she considered Aiming?
IE. Would the Rathuum mods work for Peacemaker?

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2 hours ago, CluckingLove said:

The one thing that still needs a real proper nerf is covert lethality. Being able to easily solo T4 survival for hours by just backstabbing everyone while being perma invis is kind of unfair for anyone else who actually groups up and tries to survive normally for as long as they can. There is no skill in that.

 

Edited by Sonos

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Ok, first i wanna say, very, very long time trinity player here, and though i'm sad to see it, i 100% agree blessing did need a nerf, however i would like to bring up a few questions/opinions

1. while the range nerf on blessing is annoying, it is also understandable, however. would it be possible to have a symbol appear next to teammates that are in range of blessing? it's very hard to keep track of 3 other people during something like survival, and it's very annoying  to cast blessing trying to heal someone, only to find out they are out of range and you wasted the cast. 

2. i  REALLY REALLY REALLY want to thank you for one unmentioned change to the formula, as far as i can tell, the dr given by the heal is divided by the number of allies affected, meaning if you only have 1-2 people nearby, or a low man group, one heal does a lot more

3. because of these changes, trinity now has to cast blessing a lot more often, as everyone will almost always be taking much more damage after a heal, to the point where i often have to heal back to back, would it be possible to slightly buff the damage reducion of link OR make the reduction from blessing ADD to link (instead of being multiplied)? that way trinity doesn't have to worry about herself as much while focusing on her teammates? basically, trinity has to cast 4 twice as often, is there any way she could get a little boost to her own defenses so that's not as draining?

4: OR, since blessing is being (understandably) nerfed, is it possible we could see some changes to well of life? it's almost never useful... ever, what if she tagged a mob and made it drop one of each ammo? or maybe lowered it's damage? or maybe made it take more damage? just a few ideas as i often forget i even have 4 skills

5. i know someone already said this, but i can't find the post, so i apologize for repeating it.  yes blessing trinity builds were very overpowered or 'cheese strat' as you put it, but a large part of that was the sheer amount of damage enemies do when you break level 100, often 1shotting any non tank frame even if they have some defensive mods, if you're taking away a lot of player survivability, are there plans to lower the scaling of enemy damage?

6. this one is a purely selfish request, and i don't expect it to be acknowledged, but i wanted to throw it out there, one sad side effect of this blessing nerf was that the 'trinity bomber' build is nigh impossible now, where a trinity does damage via link by shooting herself with explosive weapons. again, i know it's pretty insignificant to you guys with how powerful blessing was on it's own, but it was literally my favorite build in the whole game, and still took a lot of effort to avoid killing myself and that challenge was a lot of fun, maybe if there were some tweaks to link this would still be possible, but i'm not holding my breath, just wanted to throw it out there

7. i know this isn't directly involved with this patch, but on the subject of balancing, is there any plans to make any changes to retalation? (the vazarin skill)  it's one of the most costly traits in all of the focus trees, and yet pratically useless, 10% of damage taken is pratically nonexistant... even a full hp inaros would only return about 500 damage with his entire health pool, that's less than 2 bullets from almost any gun endgame, is there a reason it doesn't return damage BEFORE reduction (like iron skin?) that would make it useful on tanks... or maybe it could give some damage resistance? so it would feel like it was having an impact instead of just doing 1s-2s on everything in the room?

8.and i will probably get a LOT of hate for this one... but are there any balance changes intended for the grenade launchers? i don't mind tonkor hitting real hard, but it makes no sense to me that it's the UNQUESTIONABLE single strongest launcher in the entire game... and it's also the only one you can't hurt yourself with. i feel like that's not fair to anyone else who likes a different launcher. that much potential damage needs to have some risk involved, sure it's only got a 2 round clip and you can miss... but that's far from enough to gate the weapon

Edited by mishli

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14 hours ago, Techeon36 said:

Another round of TennoGen and still the Ferro Mag Helmet nor the Blood Core Excalibur skin have been accepted into the game.

Is there something wrong with these awesome creations?

This is the Mag helmet i have been waiting on but noooooooo sigh

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Thanks very much!

Still, I can't wait to see loadout options before starting a mission, like:

  • Choosing loadout would be great improvement
  • optional to choose mod set up
  • optional to equip other frames, weapons and gear

I don't know if you guys test it, but ie.: it's a pain when you join someone doing vault run, you need to equip the dragon key. If after that you need to do something else, you need to remove that key. Then if I wanna join a mission with specific frame, but want to load unranked weapons to rank them up, there we go to arsenal again.

It's exhausting, going back and forth, even using the menus, lots of clicks and stuff.

I'm MR15, I'm using all the loadouts, but I keep changing them, all the time.

I know we get to enjoy the liset design, but doing this is the same as if we needed to manually leave the arsenal and enter the mod bench every time we needed to upgrade a mod. Please think about it, thanks.

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Those passives are really S#&$ty both in design and functionality.  I hope no one pulled an all-nighter to come up with these.  You know if you're going to throw stuff to the wall and see what sticks, you could at least do something with the ones that DO stick, otherwise you're just making a mess.

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On 5/28/2016 at 0:10 AM, Ceekur said:

That's not what they mean. Shooting Gallery now duplicates itself onto allies just like before, while you keep a copy on yourself, instead of your lasso transferring to an ally. It will not function any differently when flying solo.

 

On 5/28/2016 at 0:16 AM, DarkDemonXR69 said:

I think he means the damage buff permanent, while the jamming that is the thing orbiting and jumping to the allies stays untouched. Based on the text from the patch of course. Anyway mesa is the only warframe that I didnt tested after the patch

 No. What I mean is that when I read "permanent buff" I think that the whole shebang is permanent. They should clarify that a bit more. Also permanent does not mean simultaneous, so when I read that I think "Okay cool it's Simultaneous AND permanent". Not just Simultaneous.

Clarification would be nice, and is critical with changes especially concerning buffs and nerfs.

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