Update 18.13.0: TennoGen, Passives, & Reworks

[Kaylightning]

On 27/05/2016 at 6:20 PM, [DE]Megan said:

DE .. Mag removes armor enemies level 40. He passed that it no longer removes the armor. It would bug? She's not removing armor as promised. It did several tests, enemies with little armor as the butcher removes up to level 80, more enemies like Bombard does not remove when it reaches level 38. You can review this in a hotfix?

 

Edited May 30, 2016 by Kaylightning

[3135828]

On 5/28/2016 at 7:31 PM, Cesarin said:

Spamming is not something people like, but its a neccesity on high levels.

Again, people who almost always are supporting the changes, have never played high levels (60+). Where units can shred a warframe with armor (including Rhino and Nezha) in half seconds, or insta kill you even behind walls (explosive units or railgun moas).

 

If they really wanted to balance, then they need to start thinking about percentages and not raw damage. Powers need to scale.

Because lets be honest, they first nerf frames, then they nerf "overpowered" guns that are the only usable things in high levels (Tonkor, Simmulor, etc..). Whats next? leave us with peaguns and paper thin frames and call it "lol, have fun!"?

 

I think they invented something, it's called "dodging". You know, when you don't stay at one place all the time and get shot? Yeah, that. That's also why some people don't use Carrier. Maybe you've heard of it?

Well, you know, when you start talking about some category of people, generalization is an extremely bad thing. I won't call myself "high-end player" or something, but I had quite a few encounters with 60+ level enemies, and they died way more frequently than I did. I think Sorties count, right? Always have been bored with 40 minute missions, and looking for a squad for raids is an extreme pain just below spine.

There are two kinds of "overpowered" things: those that need skill and those that do not. High damage non-AoE weapons like Lex Prime, Soma Prime, Vaykor Marelok, Sancti Tigris, Rakta Cernos etc. and buffer, debuffer and CC orientied frames, such as Banshee, Nova, Rhino, Nyx, Lok, Trinity, non-blind Mirage (blind Mirage used to lock down entire maps) go into first category. Non-self damaging AoE weapons, like Simulor and Tonkor, and self-sustaining tank/nuker frames like Excalibur, Hysteria Valkyr, Ash, and, formerly, Mag (Chroma needs to constantly receive damage and is overall hard to build and sustain, Inaros and Wukong need constant maintenance) go into second category. I support expansion of the first category and the destruction of the second one, and, as such, playstyles that make game infinitely easier for some loadouts than the others, given the same circumstances.

[Helleborr]

I'm going to invoke accusations of heresy, but may I just say that Mag is actually okay? I mean, she's harder to play, and she's not that press 1 button and a lot of corpus die, but Polarize shreds armor, which is nice, and Magnetize amplifies damage to a target by a percentage, creates a safezone collecting all bullets from you and enemies, and then applies it over time to all who enter, and explodes at the end with a good radius, and it can be spammed. I can't see how this + armor shredding + some energy from pull kills + good old CC from ult doesn't make for a decent kit. I like Mag now.

However Volt rework is still meh (oh, and btw, you really could have gone that extra mile and made an actual riot shield animation, DE, especially since the limitations are in place). Ult is a reliable CC now, but the changes overall still aren't all that great and he still falls off in the long run. At least the shield looks pretty now.

Trinity nerf is still a bummer though. :(

[Maadguy]

I feel like the thinking process of DE is wrong, they are nerfing frames that players have to use by default because of endgame scaling being too ridiculous (hello raids, sorties, level 100+ ennemies, and so on...)

Most frames (and i really mean most) are litteraly useless in endgame, yet the only ones that are viable are being nerfed to the ground without changing anything to the scaling, making endgame extremely tedious and honestly just not fun.

Don't nerf to the ground the few viable frames / weapons, buff the ones that are currently not being played because they are too weak. We want more diversity to the game and more options to explore, not nerfs. 
I thought gaming was about having fun, guess i've been proven wrong.

[Noobly]

Raptors lost because they had no 99% Bless Trin anymore

[Ryuketsu.]

On 5/27/2016 at 4:46 PM, SiriusStarr said:

Wow, so.  They basically nerfed every top tier frame without any compensatory buffs to other frames, with the exception of Ash who is perhaps most in need of nerfing.  Trinity has essentially been gutted and is no longer viable in top tier play.  So basically the game that was already leaning a little to far to the tedious/grindy side just got 10 times more tedious.  Thanks, DE.  Not sure I'm going to be playing or supporting this game any longer, if this is the direction we can expect things to go.  Frames needed BUFFING to match the level of the top tier, to make many different builds viable, not nerfing of those top tier things to make every high level mission (especially those Sortie 3's) incredibly fricking tedious and frustrating.  This isn't a PvP game; the correct level of balance is everything being fun and viable, not nothing.  Shame we can't get refunds for any outstanding plat we've purchased.

Also, that Nyx passive is literally just a direct nerf to her, unless it doesn't apply on her Mind Control or Chaos...  Because the last thing you want is mind-controlled or chaos'd enemies being disarmed...

 

On 5/27/2016 at 4:50 PM, Kyryo said:

so. Excalibur is useless again.

     Mag can no longer own corpus sorties.

    Mirage can no longer blind the entire system... trash

    Trinity can no longer heal far away tennos.. dangerously near trash (as blessing)

    Valkyr can no longer be a safe  reviver.

    Volt is still useless.

 

 

Ty DE, we really like to be nerfed.

This all of this.

[RaginGoblin]

Holy cannoly 0.0 i'm going back to my ember prime and test that proc.

[SGSL-Valkyria]

DE realy i hope you take back this rework Trinity ok / Valkyr pls lower rang for hystery debuff / Mirage ok / Mesa nice / Excalibur i can life with this but way kill MAG and OMG buff the boring frame Ash / Passiv good but not all nice or usefule and pls buff and nerf next time weapons thx ^^ your warframe player AND give use update 19 xD

 

Edited May 30, 2016 by FuryScar

[Serafim_94]

Happy nerfing people. Take a bunch of top-noch characters and make them useless. While you are at it, take some useless characters and make them even more useless. Done. "Rework".

[TigertheFUZZY]

Why make Trinitys heal have a range and ruin the god mode the god mode nerf was good no need to make extra changes

 

[Cry-Havoc]

This thread is literally the biggest pile of pissing and whining bullS#&$tery I've ever seen.

-How many of you REALLY thought Trinity's infinite-range-heal, Mirage's infinite-range-blind, Excalibur's infinite-range-dps, or Valkyr's irrelevant-end-of-hysteria-self-damage was going to stay as stupidly silly as it was?

-It's fine to bring Mesa's Peacemaker UP to par with everyone else, but gods-forbid they bring out-of-line abilities DOWN to par with everyone else.

-Oh noes... Mag can't spam one ability and laugh through Corpus Sorties anymore!  But why would we ever want her to be able to appreciably hurt more than one faction?!

-If you're SO eager to toss frames out the airlock because your SINGLE build setup for that frame is "ruined" then you might as well save yourself the extra clicks and toss Ash out right now too, since we all know his rework is coming eventually.  What will you do when Blade Storm isn't the 1-press-wonder-power it is now?

-I'm not keen on Polarize having fixed damage, some of the passives, or the energy-drain while carrying Electro-Riot-Shield either, but FFS these things have JUST been deployed.  Nothing ever sits 100% unchanged for very long after deployment. Calm your collective %$#.

-Cookie-Cutter hyper-specialization is the death of fun.  How many WoW players remember back in the day when every member of each class looked and specced the same?  All the warriors, one look, one spec: All the rogues, one look, one spec: etc. At endgame, every member of every class was specced the same way, and looked the same.  These balance changes are meant to give multiple options for each warframe to build.for, and keep that kind of thing from happening.

-Threads like this are the best @(*()$ reinforcement for why I spend 75+% of my time in this game playing "Solo" or "Friends Only."

TL:DR? It's a @(*()$ game, and it's not threatening your livelihoods.  Calm the hell down.

[vinx909]

1 minute ago, Cry-Havoc said:

This thread is literally the biggest pile of pissing and whining bullS#&$tery I've ever seen.

-How many of you REALLY thought Trinity's infinite-range-heal, Mirage's infinite-range-blind, Excalibur's infinite-range-dps, or Valkyr's irrelevant-end-of-hysteria-self-damage was going to stay as stupidly silly as it was?

-It's fine to bring Mesa's Peacemaker UP to par with everyone else, but gods-forbid they bring out-of-line abilities DOWN to par with everyone else.

-Oh noes... Mag can't spam one ability and laugh through Corpus Sorties anymore!  But why would we ever want her to be able to appreciably hurt more than one faction?!

-If you're SO eager to toss frames out the airlock because your SINGLE build setup for that frame is "ruined" then you might as well save yourself the extra clicks and toss Ash out right now too, since we all know his rework is coming eventually.  What will you do when Blade Storm isn't the 1-press-wonder-power it is now?

-I'm not keen on Polarize having fixed damage, some of the passives, or the energy-drain while carrying Electro-Riot-Shield either, but FFS these things have JUST been deployed.  Nothing ever sits 100% unchanged for very long after deployment. Calm your collective %$#.

-Cookie-Cutter hyper-specialization is the death of fun.  How many WoW players remember back in the day when every member of each class looked and specced the same?  All the warriors, one look, one spec: All the rogues, one look, one spec: etc. At endgame, every member of every class was specced the same way, and looked the same.  These balance changes are meant to give multiple options for each warframe to build.for, and keep that kind of thing from happening.

-Threads like this are the best @(*()$ reinforcement for why I spend 75+% of my time in this game playing "Solo" or "Friends Only."

TL:DR? It's a @(*()$ game, and it's not threatening your livelihoods.  Calm the hell down.

the problem with it is that the game is balanced for the overpowered S#&$. dring down the power of the tenno and the game becomes unballanced. fewer would have a problem if they reballanced the enemies with it, but they don't. this makes the game harder without a good reason for it.

and in nyx case they don't even seem to know how she is played from the start. probably the same for a lot of other frame but i don't know because they are not one of my mains.

[DemonstratorBG]

•    Polarize: Polarize now spreads like Nova’s Molecular Prime that expands out over time. Targets with shields will take a fixed shield damage (no longer a %), while targets with armour take health damage and a permanent armour debuff. Targets will emit a piece or two of shrapnel which can be used to create synergies with Mag's other abilities. 

 

?!?!?!??! Why?

 

[xacegod]

still waiting for DE response...

[masanauskas]

with this patch you made mirage not worth using finally killed mag bless trinity is dead  jordas raid is nearly impossible doing now not even worth trying with out bless

[Aredator]

ok DE I get why the i will agree hysterias nerf was necessary but you made Valkyr more boarin in my opinion cose i loved using hysteria it is the coolest ability in game and i loved just using it insted of my melee cose it was very fun and now i feel like I only get to use hysteria for a short amount of time just to heal up cose it drains so much energy.I really think that hysteria should be a double edge sward and now hysteria does the same thing as the old and I could "cheez" things with it still but It was way less fun cos activating hysteria to kill like 4-5 enemy's and then turning it of for a seck just to reactivate it kinda brakes the the immersion of being a crazy cat that slices everything in her path,I guess the point is it just feels good to use hysteria for long periods of time.

[(NSW)Sekstant]

1 hour ago, masanauskas said:

with this patch you made mirage not worth using finally killed mag bless trinity is dead  jordas raid is nearly impossible doing now not even worth trying with out bless

I made few runs with mirage on bosses... Still can easily kill hem, I think she can still do a job for me on missions... So yeah... "Not worth using"... Bless trynity can be dead for me, but goddamn, increase range to 100 or let it be effected by power range and I'll be fine :V Same with mag... I used her on few runs and I think she still can do dmg... I made only few raids, but all I can say... Sometimes it was 2hard4me... 

Edited May 30, 2016 by Verion96

[EmilAoko]

On 5/27/2016 at 9:32 PM, magusat999 said:

A lot of other games are looking pretty good right now...

I know, right? Overwatch is pretty fun by the way.

[mishli]

8 hours ago, 3135828 said:

I think they invented something, it's called "dodging". You know, when you don't stay at one place all the time and get shot? Yeah, that. That's also why some people don't use Carrier. Maybe you've heard of it?

Well, you know, when you start talking about some category of people, generalization is an extremely bad thing. I won't call myself "high-end player" or something, but I had quite a few encounters with 60+ level enemies, and they died way more frequently than I did. I think Sorties count, right? Always have been bored with 40 minute missions, and looking for a squad for raids is an extreme pain just below spine.

There are two kinds of "overpowered" things: those that need skill and those that do not. High damage non-AoE weapons like Lex Prime, Soma Prime, Vaykor Marelok, Sancti Tigris, Rakta Cernos etc. and buffer, debuffer and CC orientied frames, such as Banshee, Nova, Rhino, Nyx, Lok, Trinity, non-blind Mirage (blind Mirage used to lock down entire maps) go into first category. Non-self damaging AoE weapons, like Simulor and Tonkor, and self-sustaining tank/nuker frames like Excalibur, Hysteria Valkyr, Ash, and, formerly, Mag (Chroma needs to constantly receive damage and is overall hard to build and sustain, Inaros and Wukong need constant maintenance) go into second category. I support expansion of the first category and the destruction of the second one, and, as such, playstyles that make game infinitely easier for some loadouts than the others, given the same circumstances.

dodging is definitly a thing, yes, but when enemies get to level 100-120+, if you so much as press the reload button, which stops you from sprinting, pratically any frame can die in 1 shot, if any enemy is anywhere withing the room or even the next room? you can die on accident as the missiles do 180 spins in the air and hit you through cover. I have been running endgame content for a very long time, and in my experience, your average player starts struggling at 30, a well built player can generally go until around 70 ish, but after that? unless you're pratically invincible in some way, about 95% of people just give up because the enemy scaling is so rediculously high. The ONLY options at that point are either have frames that scale infinitely with your enemies (like old mag or nyx) or you pratically have to be invincible cuz everything starts to fall off at that point

 

i at least partially agree with you, i do think that the frames that have it too easy have had it way too easy. and that's coming from a trinity player, however i almost never used the 'blessing trinity' build, i would actually (try) to reactively heal... but when no one seems to want to use quick thinking anymore.... it's very very difficult. especially when people start getting 1shot with no defensive mods with level 30-50 enemies. 

as for the concept of 'difficult but strong builds' i am very sad that trinity bomber is going away... it was actually quite complicated/difficult with the amount everyone in your group could screw you up, but it was still my favorite thing in the whole game

Edited May 30, 2016 by mishli

[Serafim_94]

29 minutes ago, Verion96 said:

I made few runs with mirage on bosses... Still can easily kill hem, I think she can still do a job for me on missions... So yeah... "Not worth using"... Bless trynity can be dead for me, but goddamn, increase range to 100 or let it be effected by power range and I'll be fine :V Same with mag... I used her on few runs and I think she still can do dmg... I made only few raids, but all I can say... Sometimes it was 2hard4me... 

She isn't worth using becouse there is number of other gun-frames who are much less squishy than her. She isn't trash, but now she seats in category of "need to invent reasons to use".

My only real gripe here is Mag though. Makes me afraid of any future "reworks" DE attempt.

Edited May 30, 2016 by Serafim_94

[(NSW)Sekstant]

1 minute ago, Serafim_94 said:

She isn't worth using becouse there is number of other gun-frames who are much less squishy than her. She isn't trash, but now she seats in category of "need to invent reasons to use".

Found one! Farming Nekros components... Sooo... Does this count? If not, we still have fashion frame or just preferences to use her and not other frame... But as I can see, this is not going to work... 

[Mernak]

It is a nice work but Limbo's passive just good and not limboly. Limbo need just the old style: let him use things in the Rift Plane. This is the only way to give him a passive that is limboly. Like Nekros: his passive is so epic good for him, and only for him. E.g. if Volt would get Nekros's passive, everyone just wanna ask u for reasons, and say "why wtf?".

[Indelwood]

Please stop making me rip my hair out! Love you guys, love your work! Hate you touching my Valkyr! 2nd time you have made me want to quit playing this game... Please stop nerfing my Valkyr ... I have spent to much time building her a certain way then you change her making my time wasted (not completely) Last update I could deal with but this...

Please up her some where... this last up date was waaaaayyyy to big of a nerf...

Best Regards,

Indelwood

[Serafim_94]

40 minutes ago, Verion96 said:

Found one! Farming Nekros components... Sooo... Does this count? If not, we still have fashion frame or just preferences to use her and not other frame... But as I can see, this is not going to work... 

It does ) I'm not saying she is the worst frame ever now. Simply meh. TBH, just like before, but without OP blind to pack.

Let's put it this way - she isn't meta-frame anymore. Banished from Olympus :P

[Sold0ut]

Nerfs were well done and necessary. Kudos DE.