Mag Rework Feedback [Post Update 18.13]

[Circle_of_Psi]

Well, I've not tryed mag yet, I still have her Primed at level 1, due to I was so busy leveling my main frames, but when I come to it, I'll judge myself, but by reading this and all its rants, I can see shes been destroyed. Or so people scream for her to have been.

I'll be back, when I see what's really happened to her.  

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

3 minutes ago, LegionCynex said:

I'll be back, when I see what's really happened to her.  

It won't affect those just now leveling her. It's those who have played her for years that it's bothersome. Going from burst to a duration DPS/CC build is beyond weird. Too strange, and did nothing to improve her survival. Got some Grineer help, but totally changed how she plays against Corpus. She's too unusual for me to even take to Dark Sectors too, as anything I knew her as is gone now (but Pull ... at least that's still the #1 key).

[enJohneering]

The overall kit is great, but absolutely nothing scales except the weird shield-like property of Magnetize (you can stand behind it to avoid gunfire from the other side). In any decently challenging mission, her abilities - all of which are mostly focused on damage - trail far behind weapon damage and make the added risk of a long casting animation useless. I have been able to use Magnetize so far to troll a few high lvl mobs like sentients and bursas, but that is very situational. Otherwise, a lot of her late game potential is simply gone. I wouldn't mind a weaker % than the 100% shield nuke we used to get, but the damage on polarize and crush NEED to scale in some way to be useful for anything beyond Ceres. 

So in short, good design, but no late game scaling on 3 or 4 makes for a very frustrating time and less synergy than expected.

[Feuershark]

The polarize nerf is too much. I understand that one-shotting the whole INter map on Saturn was too much, but the nerf is waaaaay too big. I'm asking for a buff or a little re-rework so that she can (at least) deal reasonable damage.

Edited May 28, 2016 by Feuershark

[MonkeyWaffles]

Horrible, horrible changes on Mag. It's basically just swapping the utility of her #3 to her #2. She is still now a one-trick pony, but a worse one since she swapped dominance over one faction to a middling ability to bother another faction.

Now, for feedback:

Pull and Crush are both still range-based, while Magnetize and Polarize are mostly duration with some range. These two conflict each other for making an optimum build.

 Pull is still pretty much the same, though It'd be nice if it had a bit more utility. My main problem with it is that after an enemy is ragdolled, it can't be ragdolled again until it finishes its standing up animation, which cuts down on its effectivity. I'd suggest something like a 50% chance to be able to pull an enemy mid-animation, so as to avoid pull-lock but still being able to control most of the enemies. The directional requirement is enough of a limitation for map full map control as it is.

Magnetize is definitely improved, though I'd still need to play around with it more to see how it performs in the long run with different situations.

Polarize... well... can I say it's pretty much ruined? Even at 200%+ strength, it doesn't strip enough of the shields of lvl 100+ robots and it's armor stripping ability at that that same difficulty level is pitiful. It does nothing. Not to mention, it can't be multicast; Each cast seems to overwrite the last one. One would have to wait around and hide (since she's still really squishy and has limited survivability), while recasting it multiple times with breaks, for it to be even effective at stripping armor at 100+. Overall it's a horrendous change. The problem with the old Polarize was not that it stripped all the shields of the Corpus it hits, it was the damage the shield burn caused, after the fact. The whole point of polarize was supposed to be for stripping off Shields (and with the update, Armor). I'd suggest this type of change instead: 

• Since it's more like molecular prime now, then let it be multicast like molecular prime.
• Keep the % damage to Shields and Armor, instead make its secondary AoE damage a flat value based on the % if the shield or armor removed; make it so that 200% Power = 50% Shield / Armor removed, with a minor flat Magnetic AoE damage if it hits Shields, and a minor flat Physical AoE damage if it hits Armor. Basically, like M-prime.

Crush is still kinda pitiful. Still too slow, still effects too few targets (any that runs into the target area after it's casted isn't effected, currently ragdoll-animation targets are also not effected). I'd suggest for crush to instead:

• Cast a short duration AoE. Initial targets in the AoE will be lifted and crushed, and will be given a speed debuff after. Currently mid-animation or ragdolled enemies have a 50% chance to be crushed as well.
• Enemies that walk into the AoE field mid-animation will get the speed debuff and suffer half of the total crush damage when the crush animation completes.
• Also, to synergize with Magnetize and Polarize using duration, the AoE increases in its size during the cast, the longer the duration the bigger the increase. Any targets caught in the increased size would suffer only the end-animation results of half the damage plus the speed debuff.

Finally, with a lack of any high burst DPS nuking ability, she needs a buff in her survival skills -> Higher Max Shield, Higher Max Armor, Higher Max Energy.

[--RV--arm4geddon-117]

Polarize needs a little buff to its  Range & Duration values and again the fixed dmg is a huge step behind, revert to % dmg to a value you deem fair and she can viable in sortie 3 missions, also if it's a matter of spamming n2 fine, but when it comes to use her other abilities in conjunction her energy pool becomes too tight after the rework. Reducing duration, or range or even strenght in favor of higher efficiency is not an option cus the abilities that should shine ( 2 & 3 ) gonna suffer too much from it.Again spamming 2 isn't the solution if the goal was to create sinergy.this Sinergy comes at a cost, and the less painful fix is to boost her base energy pool too...

[Maxis_55]

13 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Hey Tenno! 

All related Mag rework threads will be merged here. Please discuss her changes respectfully and be constructive in your feedback after testing her out.

 

Why are you asking us to give constructive feedback? We had same threads with Saryn after her "rework". Her rework wasn't making her complete trash, but still even after people gave their feedback, Saryn was only slightly buffed and in the devstream developers said "We will think again, and maybe buff her after some consideration".  She was never touched afterwards.
What about Mag? It will be the same? Just slightly buff her and then leave her lying in the trash? She needs to undo her rework or at least give Polarize back and then it will be "rework(buff)" not a "rework(nerf)".

Quote

Mag Changes
•    Pull: Pull remains mostly the same as before. If an enemy is magnetized, bonus damage is dealt. Kills have a bonus chance of dropping energy, while causing enemies to experience almost physics-defying deaths.
•    Magnetize: Magnetize (previously Bullet Attractor) will root the target in place. Damage over time is dealt to all enemies within a set radius, with the amount of damage based on how far from the center of the Magnetized they are. A percentage of the damage of absorbed bullets/projectiles/shrapnel will be used to increase the DOT. Up to 4 targets can be Magnetized at this time.
•    Polarize: Polarize now spreads like Nova’s Molecular Prime that expands out over time. Targets with shields will take a fixed shield damage (no longer a %), while targets with armour take health damage and a permanent armour debuff. Targets will emit a piece or two of shrapnel which can be used to create synergies with Mag's other abilities. 
•    Crush: Will now deal bonus damage to magnetized enemies.

I understand how her new powers works with duration and I expected it to be not that terrible, but I was wrong, and there's a result after testing on 135 level greener and corpus:
•    Pull: Pull still remains mostly useless, and there's nothing special to say about it, as expected.
•    Magnetize:  became very interesting ability, that can help kill group of 5 enemies if they stand together, but can't be practically useful.
•    Polarize: I tested this ability with most of possible builds and what can this do now? Well, this can take away shields and armour from all enemies in about 2-3 seconds, and that's ALL. It can't kill anyone. This ability doesn't deal damage anymore. All that have been said about this ability being still useful on Devstream was a lie. You can take Equinox, turn on your ult, kill 5 enemies and turn your ult off. In that way you are being more effective than new Mag on 100500%.
•    Crush:  nothing changed. Bonus damage makes no difference whatsoever to make Mag viable.
As a result Mag is dead as a endgame warframe. She deal constant damage and can't be used on any fraction whatsoever. Yesterday she could nuke any corpus groups on any level. Now she belongs in the trash. I don't understand how this nerf should make her useful for new players. Yearly they could know that Mag is useful if you have right mods, but you have to spend a lot of efforts in order to achieve best warframe against corpus. Now they can get totally useless warframe in any stage of the game. Nerf should be undone because of low reasoning behind this nerf covered by the name "rework".
 

Edited May 28, 2016 by Maxis_55
Removed unnecessary part.

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

8 minutes ago, MonkeyWaffles said:

Horrible, horrible changes on Mag. It's basically just swapping the utility of her #3 to her #2. She is still now a one-trick pony, but a worse one since she swapped dominance over one faction to a middling ability to bother another faction.

Now, for feedback:Pull and Crush are both still range-based, while Magnetize and Polarize are mostly duration with some range. These two conflict each other for making an optimum build.

DE would have to change the mods to allow both duration/range AND Power Strength (Blind Rage was the reason Shield Polarize was so damaging, now can't fit it in as duration is needed). Going from 289% to 200% is not a good sight (especially how rare those corrupted mods can be, and now a prime one, can't fit your frame anymore).

DPS reduction never sits well with players, but that's almost a 1/3 reduction in raw DPS.

[Reifnir]

So, I went and did a bit of playtesting.

At 208% Power Strength, Mag's Polarize needs to be cast a total of 15 times on a level 130 Corrupted Bombard to remove its armor. 

After casting Polarize 15 times, if you cast Magnetize, all Shards produced earlier will deal ~15% of Bombards health after the entire duration of the DoT. 

If left un-polarized, with armor intact and identical frame setup, a magnetized level 130 Corrupted Bombard takes 41 damage from Pull and 69 damage per tick of Crush. 

 

Against a level 60 Corpus Moa Eximus Polarize is at "don't even bother trying" uselessness level. It does pitiful damage and might as well not be there at all. 

 

 

In short: with Polarize scaling removed, Mag is now useless in high-level content against Corpus. 

Her overhyped "can remove armor" utility only works for low-level content and can be easily replaced by stacking Corrosive Projections. 

 

TL:DR; From Corpus Grim Reaper to Gimmicky Piece of Junk.

[xyniu]

Dear DE,

Please revert back DAMAGE SCALING for polarize instead of FLAT DAMAGE which is useless at endurance runs.

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

21 minutes ago, Reifnir said:

So, I went and did a bit of playtesting.

At 208% Power Strength, Mag's Polarize needs to be cast a total of 15 times on a level 130 Corrupted Bombard to remove its armor. 

After casting Polarize 15 times, if you cast Magnetize, all Shards produced earlier will deal ~15% of Bombards health after the entire duration of the DoT. 

If left un-polarized, with armor intact and identical frame setup, a magnetized level 130 Corrupted Bombard takes 41 damage from Pull and 69 damage per tick of Crush. 

For those sporting 289+% Power Strength losing 89% or so of it is why it'll take 15x casts.

Mag was build for ultimate burst damage. Taking Blind Rage out of the build to fit Continuity, for example, just balances out duration, but nerfs Power Strength HARD.

Mod wise, it's a mess. It's literally taking Serration out of a primary weapon and putting in a reload or speed mod. Then trying to pass it out as "kewl", as it's new.

[Twistedsparkle]

mags magnetize bubbles inflict self damage :// I hope this is just a bug
I killed myself bunch of times and my sentinel even more

[BBOTAA]

I dont like that mechanic that was implemented on mag and other frames, that you have to use one power for others to do something. Its ok to some extend like saryn, not ok when it is almost mandatory.
I like to choose the most usefull power according to the situation.
But that just me and it made mag one of my most played wf, overall i dont like the rework.It changed the mag gameplay to a magnetize spammer... where i used to be able to choose if i want to CC or do dmg or replenish shields, now i can't, at least the dmg and the shield replenish part isa lot weaker. Altough magnetize its obviously more usefull than bullet atractor.. and polarize being duration based contributed to that and that was the change for the better.
Wich if it was the only change and I would be happy
I don't really understand the need for some changes, such has the % based dmg on polarize to a fixed dmg, making it not scaleable, and the shield dmg not doing any dmg to the health.

And shield polarize still only works on corpus. on flesh/armored enemies it could replenish your health.


 

[aerosoul1337]

Mag is now energy thirsty.

Combination costs to much and polarize itself costs 75 is too high.

[Girunugal]

5 minutes ago, aerosoul1337 said:

Mag is now energy thirsty.

Combination costs to much and polarize itself costs 75 is too high.

 

Yet the energy base is so damn low... Nice logic, DE.   

[Reifnir]

37 minutes ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

For those sporting 289+% Power Strength losing 89% or so of it is why it'll take 15x casts.

At 280%+ it will take 10-11 casts. We're still talking flat armor reduction per cast, you know.

If you consider the time new Polarize takes to travel the distance of one room, you're still looking at ~40-60 seconds spent doing NOTHING but casting Polarize to achieve the effect of bringing 4x Corrosive Projection. The way I see it, Polarize needs to keep the armor stripping mechanic and revert to being instant - the way it is now it's a garbage skill only useful in Star Chart. 

[iinTreX]

WTF DE what are you doing?!

RIP Mag

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

3 minutes ago, Reifnir said:

At 280%+ it will take 10-11 casts. We're still talking flat armor reduction per cast, you know.

If you consider the time new Polarize takes to travel the distance of one room, you're still looking at ~40-60 seconds spent doing NOTHING but casting Polarize to achieve the effect of bringing 4x Corrosive Projection. The way I see it, Polarize needs to keep the armor stripping mechanic and revert to being instant - the way it is now it's a garbage skill only useful in Star Chart. 

It's not even useful in the star chart.

Mag now is like having a stroke. It's different, strange, numb and doesn't feel the same anymore.

[Kettunen]

I think the 'gloing' sound the passive makes is a bit too loud. It's kinda distracting.

[Destrab]

• Respective ranges for Magnetise and Polarise (z) are erratic, possibly need rebalance
• 3 is overwhelming against Grineer, but harshly reduced in effectiveness for Corpus
• Fixed damage blocks Mag from a lot of the game

The only issues I see are the parameters for self-damage in Magnetis(z)e, the fixed damage for all her abilities, and the imbalance of her effectiveness against factions.

Thanks for everything you do, guys

[ZhurZhur]

I was really excited for a mag rework/ buff against Armour and flesh targets but the one ability that i have loved for the past 3 years (How long was gravidous ago) being polarize has gone from nice quick instant effectiveness to slow clunky mediocrity. It no longer feels nice to use and I'm glad that i finished the proxy alert before her change.

[(PSN)Quo_Tee]

Just my thoughts from footage I've seen of the "New and improved" Mag.

DE have Nerfed her into the ground!

Why on earth would they change Shield Polarises % based shield/armor strip to a Fixed damage? That makes Mag utterly useless against any enemy over lvl 50. The spreading wave was all that was needed to be changed, that way shield polarise can't instantly nuke an entire group, now it can't even kill anything, even the armor strip is rendered useless as Augments such as Ash's Seeking shuriken or even Banshee's sonic fracture augment can strip 100% of enemy armor.

Fantastic job DE, Thank you once again for ruining one of my favourite frames.

[ZurekMorraff]

I love Mag. She was my Gateway-Drug to Warframe. She still holds 12% of my 1264 hours. The only Frame who surpases her in play time is Frost Prime, by a meager 1%.

I was so excited and ready to see what DE would do with her when they revealed she would be getting a rework! When they began to talk and show her new powers, i was so happy. She's even more amazing now then she ever was, and she always has been, at least in my eyes.

They began going over passives, however, and I was met with... unenthusiastic remarks, from those around me, and even from the Devs themselves... "She has a small vaccume on bulletjump", they all said, like they were sweeping dust under a rug, just to get it out of the way... The Stalker may have cut deeply into my frame, but those words, the tone they were always spoken in, cut deeper into my heart...

I started to look for new ideas, new ways to be more helpful, more themed, more... loved...

So many ideas, from myself, my friends, cummunity players in the odd mission...

"Maybe she could pull minerals shards from the environment when she bullet jumps, that act like the shards that will fall off the armored enemies!"

"Maybe she could get longer wall-latch because she can magnetize herself to the wall?"

"What if she drained shields from nearby units, when she bulletjumps?"

"... Magnetised them to the floor, like a knockdown when she bulletjumps..."

"... got Shields, or even energy, from Magnetic procs..."

"... increased nearby allies shields..."

"... "Magnetised" projectiles like a rail-gun, increasing their projectile flight speed..."

"... Has a chance to "repell" magnetic proced enemies that come to close..."

Each time I heard a new idea, I had hope the team would change their mind. With so many ideas, they must have been getting back to them, in some amount... Maybe they did, and just wern't heard, or seen as moving in a direction they didn't want to push her into... I'm not sure where theings went, how they got there, but i'm not giving up yet... 

 

Make Mag, Mag.

The Magnetizing, Shield Polarizing, Enemy Crushing, Unit Pulling, Corpus Killing, Grineer Shreding, Infested Clensing, Beauty of a frame she was always ment to be, and has finally become.

Please, take another look at her passive, take a moment to think over some of the listed ideas...

... Even if Mag's passive is here to stay, Thank you for your time. Thank you for your efforts. Thank you for making such an amazing game.

Thank you for Mag.

[iLawon-Prime]

Thank's Mag is now one of the worst wf's :P 

 

I dont like this rework. 

 

#hateworks

[Gandalfinator]

Before the Rework, Mag was a Frame that i could easily take to Sortie missions and win - especially Corpus eximus strongholds.

While i may admit that she used to be somehow only good against Corpus (and really only against them) that was that special flair she had somehow. Yes, it is true that her 2nd ability was the only one you ever used and I myself would have liked a change for that, I am really disappointed to see what they have done with her.

I had problems killing lvl 10 Corpus with her Polarize ability and besides being relatively week now, it costs an abundance of energy, which i can no longer diminish by using fleeting expertise since power duration has become more of a topic for her.

I would have liked a mag that left more space for tactical desicions while still being a force to be reckoned with. This is sadly not the case.

So please, DE, stop whatever you're doing now.